Native American Logos for Team Names

[LauraGB]

Every year or so, just prior to an election, there is always a big hoopla about using Native American names for school teams - Indians, Warriors, Redskins, etc. Is this just a local thing, or does your area have a problem with this, too? Apparently, it's on the voting block (again) to have schools fined thousands of dollars if they keep any of the "derogatory" names because it is insulting to those of that heritage.

 

My questions are A) does your area feud about this, too? and B) Do you find naming a highschool sports team after something strong and proud (like, say The Indians) is wrong and deserves all the attention it gets?

 

My own opinion is that everyone needs to stop looking for the "bad" in everything and accept that these competitive teams want to choose a name representative of their strength and spirit, thus flattering that group of people. It would seem, though, that I am in the minority. If someone wanted to call their team the Homeschooling Lauras, what choice would I have but to be flattered (okay, and then completely baffled and maybe a little scared, to the point of running very quickly in the opposite direction, but, you see my point?). What am I missing?

 

Laura,

Who reigns from a state whose teams are named after meat packers and beer brewers, lol

Edited April 13, 2010 by LauraGB

[Impish]

I think it depends on where you live.

 

Where I am, the term 'Indian' to describe a First Nations person is like the 'n' word, 'Redskin' would be worse if possible. Its also based on a mistake, since Columbus was nowhere near the Indies.

 

What if a team was called 'N****rs'? Would that be ok, because its tradition?

 

Yeah, I wince at the teams named 'Indians'...thank heavens we watch hockey instead :D

 

If you're going to use the name 'Indians' then the logo should have someone from India on it :D

[Julie in Austin]

I don't like the idea of fines, but I also do not like the idea of offending people, even if I don't think they _should_ be offended. Now, if there is some moral good at stake, I will offend. But if not, then I will avoid offending you even if I think your reason for being offended is stupid.

 

Also, re The Homeschooling Lauras. I think you might be a little peeved if their mascot wore a denim jumper, had children chained to her who were forbidden to speak to anyone, etc. Similarly, I think Native Americans are offended not by the simple use of "The Indians" but rather that the portrayal that goes along with that tends to reinforce the worst stereotypes.

[nukeswife]

This issue was in the news a lot back where I grew up. My high school mascot was and still is the Warriors with a picture of a Native American Brave. Other high schools in our area changed there mascot names because of this issue, but ours refused. Their view is they are honoring the courage and determination that Native American braves had.

 

There was also the same issue with Marquette University although which used to be the Warriors, I never understood the issue and why they changed it because their picture of their mascot (at least when I lived there through the late 70's, 80's and until the changed it in the 90's) was a clearly Roman or Spartan type warrior, but yet it was reported they changed it so they didn't offend Native Americans.

 

I think a lot of things like this are people trying to find the bad in everything even if it's not meant that way or was never meant in that way.

[LauraGB]

I think it depends on where you live.

 

Where I am, the term 'Indian' to describe a First Nations person is like the 'n' word, 'Redskin' would be worse if possible. Its also based on a mistake, since Columbus was nowhere near the Indies.

 

What if a team was called 'N****rs'? Would that be ok, because its tradition?

 

Yeah, I wince at the teams named 'Indians'...thank heavens we watch hockey instead :D

 

If you're going to use the name 'Indians' then the logo should have someone from India on it :D

 

 

Maybe it is dependant on where I live. I've never heard any of the local American Indian tribe representatives refer to themselves as anything other than their tribe name, often accompanied by the word "Indian".

 

No! Using the "N" word is not acceptable! But then, I've never heard of a team wanting to call themselves that, either. It really never occurred to me that "redskin" was the same sort of thing. But, I suppose I can see that. (Perhaps it goes back to being a regional thing?)

 

I agree with the India bit - I was always baffled by that (but, I'm baffled by a lot of things...)

 

Thanks for your input! It gives me an angle I really didn't see before. It's interesting because the only people I see raising the big stink are the politicians and activist groups - not the local tribes. :confused: (That's not to say they aren't - it's just that I never hear them, I only hear everyone else)

[Sputterduck]

Maybe it is dependant on where I live. I've never heard any of the local American Indian tribe representatives refer to themselves as anything other than their tribe name, often accompanied by the word "Indian".

 

Yep. If Native Americans are fine calling themselves Indian, then I am not going to care about being PC. It's their identity. Not mine. I've been around quite a few tribes and they have all called themselves Indians.

 

I can't stand it when someone who is not a given race or culture cares highly about something that members of said race or culture do not care about, all in an effort to be ultra pc. It's freaking annoying. Don't protect people from made up things that they don't find offensive and don't want protection from.

 

 

As for sports teams, I'm Irish and happy that Notre Dame is the Fighting Irish. Why would it be an insult? It's a positive thing. Why would it be different for Indians?

[LauraGB]

Also, re The Homeschooling Lauras. I think you might be a little peeved if their mascot wore a denim jumper, had children chained to her who were forbidden to speak to anyone, etc. Similarly, I think Native Americans are offended not by the simple use of "The Indians" but rather that the portrayal that goes along with that tends to reinforce the worst stereotypes.

 

Lol! I suppose if a sport's team wanted to don a jumpsuit and chain thier kids to thier hips that thier name would be the least of thier problems.:lol:

 

I guess I see a school or team of some sort choosing a name of something strong and proud and more or less a winner of sorts. I don't understand the negative stereotype that would go along with that. The Tigers, The Sharks, heck, we even have The Bullfrogs...I don't think a team would choose something with a negative stereotype to represent them. When I think of The Warriors or The Chiefs, I think "tough", "indestructable", "a force to be reckoned with".

 

Now, if they chose something like The Homeschooling Lauras...well, not so much...;)

[Brigitte]

Laura, I agree with you. I think (could be wrong) that FSU is under a lot of pressure to change their mascot and team name - The Seminoles - despite the fact that the local Seminole tribe has no problem with it. I don't get it one bit.

[pooh bear]

Laura, I agree with you. I think (could be wrong) that FSU is under a lot of pressure to change their mascot and team name - The Seminoles - despite the fact that the local Seminole tribe has no problem with it. I don't get it one bit.

 

 

NCAA prohibition against use of Native American logos, signs in stadiums, cheerleader and band uniforms, and mascots as presumed "hostile and abusive" did not apply to FSU and the Seminoles. It is considered on a case-by-case basis elsewhere. FSU was exempt since it had already negotiated agreement with the 3,100-member Seminole Tribe of Florida of the relationship and details of the images used.

[LibraryLover]

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[Thea]

Well, I live in a town named after a local Native American Tribe--there is a totem pool welcoming you to town and the high school mascot is an Indian Warrior.

 

There hasn't been any flak, that I'm aware of. A good friend of mine is married to a Native American (who is very active in his tribe)-her son plays on this football team and they are not offended at all.

[Impish]

For anyone suspecting I'm being ultra 'PC', its not the case. I used the term 'Native Indian' until my then soon-to-be SIL just about ripped my head off. Such a term here is derogatory. The term Indian is considered a huge insult. I also have heard that complaint from other ppl in Wolf's bfamily. Around here, the term 'Indian' isn't used. For example, its Big Stone Band Cree Nation, or River Cree Nation.

 

So, I understood from people of that culture, it was insulting. I do understand its not everywhere, but, for those that do find it offensive, now you know why.

[Danestress]

is more with the image promoted than some idea that the word "Indian" is offensive.

 

Many native Americans have a problem with naming a team after a tribal people and then using an image members of that tribe as warlike or brutal. So, for example, the Braves "Tomohawk Chop" bothers some people because it just seems so negatively stereotypical. But at least the Braves are a professional team owned by an individual. It does seem ironic that institutions of learning name their teams after tribal people and then inadvertently (one hopes) promote a false view of who those people are or were.

 

I think, also, team mascots have traditionally been animals, and so it rubs some the wrong way to feel like the choices are animals and Indians. Obviously there are some exceptions. The Fighting Irish, for example. But at least a lot of the Notre Dame population WAS Irish. If asked, "Who are we?" They could answer, "Well, many of us are Irish." It somehow seems different when a bunch of white people take the image of victims of oppression and then say, "Let's use this as our mascot!"

 

That's just to put out there a couple of reasons I have heard for why people object to using other humans as mascots. However, if you are interested in counteracting some of this with your own dollars, here's a fun store http://www.cafepress.com/fightinwhite/ I remembered hearing about this, and it made me laugh at the time. I googled it, and I guess the fighting whities are still out there selling t-shirts!

Edited April 14, 2010 by Danestress

[Tangerine]

My high school mascot was changed from Redskins to Redhawks. I think, in this day and age, using "redskin" is kind of ridiculous.

[charlotteb]

Sarah, my high school had the same name change! I wonder if we went to the same school? Was it in Louisville, KY?

[Tap]

Well my family is Native American and we all went to a high school with the mascot being an Indian. It was not considered offensive in my family. In fact I don't remember it ever being a topic of conversation.

 

I had other friends, from other tribes, that were very involved in tribal activities and they never commented on it either as far as I know. There was a large NA population in our area and while I remember it being mentioned on the news at some time, it wasn't a hot ticket item as far as I remember.

 

The high school didn't use derogatory slag like "We're going to scalp xyz" in signage or song.

[Tangerine]

Sarah, my high school had the same name change! I wonder if we went to the same school? Was it in Louisville, KY?

 

Hmm. Naperville, IL.

 

We had a vote, but I don't remember what the other options were.

[Desert Rat]

In our area, the high schools are named after everything from Warriors (with an Indian logo) to Chargers to Bengals. I've never found offense in it but can see how some people might.

[Mrs Mungo]

is more with the image promoted than some idea that the word "Indian" is offensive.

 

I agree. It's the stereotypes that often accompany the mascot that people often have a problem with.

 

My high school mascot was changed from Redskins to Redhawks. I think, in this day and age, using "redskin" is kind of ridiculous.

 

I agree. I have a problem with "Redskins" as opposed to something like the Warriors.

 

I don't like the idea of fines, but I also do not like the idea of offending people, even if I don't think they _should_ be offended. Now, if there is some moral good at stake, I will offend. But if not, then I will avoid offending you even if I think your reason for being offended is stupid.

 

Also, re The Homeschooling Lauras. I think you might be a little peeved if their mascot wore a denim jumper, had children chained to her who were forbidden to speak to anyone, etc. Similarly, I think Native Americans are offended not by the simple use of "The Indians" but rather that the portrayal that goes along with that tends to reinforce the worst stereotypes.

 

I agree.

 

I don't have a problem with the word Indian being used to describe Native Americans and my grandmother was chief of our tribe. At least, I don't have any more problem with that than any other word that describes them as one group, which they definitely are not.

 

eta: Part of the problem you get with names like the Seminoles is that you get crap like a mascot in a war bonnets. That's not an attempt at an accurate depiction, it's not culturally sensitive at all.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[MBM]

Maybe it is dependant on where I live. I've never heard any of the local American Indian tribe representatives refer to themselves as anything other than their tribe name, often accompanied by the word "Indian".

 

I agree with the India bit - I was always baffled by that (but, I'm baffled by a lot of things...)

 

Thanks for your input! It gives me an angle I really didn't see before. It's interesting because the only people I see raising the big stink are the politicians and activist groups - not the local tribes. :confused: (That's not to say they aren't - it's just that I never hear them, I only hear everyone else)

 

Well, I'm part Sioux Indian and lived for a number of years in a rez town in Montana. The signage at the reservations I've seen all included the word 'Indian' even in the past few years.

 

U of Illinois changed its mascot name. I remember reading that some of the tribal people were okay with the name Fighting Illini but others were not. Chicago Trib had a few articles discussing what they thought. You might be able to search and find something.

 

What irks me more than anything, is the ridiculous accent Hollywood portrays in Native American characters. The ones I've heard are really beautiful in a sing-songy way. IMO, the only movie I've seen that has done this accurately is The Slaughter Rule (not for kids).

 

 

[Tangerine]

U of Illinois changed its mascot name. I remember reading that some of the tribal people were okay with the name Fighting Illini but others were not. Chicago Trib had a few articles discussing what they thought. You might be able to search and find something.

 

They are still the Fighting Illini, but got rid of Chief Illiniwek. The student body continually voted to keep Illiniwek as the mascot, but the board eventually got rid of him. The tribal leadership changed their position over the years, eventually siding against the mascot.

[MBM]

They are still the Fighting Illini, but got rid of Chief Illiniwek. The student body continually voted to keep Illiniwek as the mascot, but the board eventually got rid of him. The tribal leadership changed their position over the years, eventually siding against the mascot.

 

Aha. Very interesting.

 

I think the best mascot is Stanford's Tree, even if it is unofficial and considered one of the worst. :D

[TXMary2]

I find these kind of "controversies" a waste of time and think they are mostly contrived by people who aren't related to the issue at all.

[mom2jjka]

My high school mascot was a warrior with a Native American logo.

The school changed it recently. They kept the name 'the warriors' - but they changed the logo to a knight in armor.

[bettyandbob]

I think it's not so much the name Indian, but the negative stereotypical portrayal with mascots and cheers that go along with the name. It is next to impossible to have the name without the mascot and cheers.

 

My college (William and Mary) was called the Indians. Their nickname has always been tribe. The logo was Tribe with 2 feathers attached. So, they dropped Indian several years ago. I do remember a really stupid mascot too, but he disappeared by the time I graduated (late 80s). The cheerleaders still wore "war paint" though. Anyway the NCAA has really cracked down on these names. W and M is still called the tribe, after getting local native tribes to say that the school used the term in a respectful manner. They had to drop the feathers. The new mascot was just announced last week --a griffin--not sure how it goes with Tribe, but we'll see how it evolves.

 

Tradition is not as important as respect. A local high school had the mascot Johnny Reb and the team was named The Rebels. This name was dropped only about 10 years ago. Do you think African American students and their parents really liked the display of Johnny Reb running across the football field with his confederate flag? This was not an argument about the real purpose of the civil war. It was just about respect.