Saxon not for gifted children?

[kmacnchs]

I was told by someone here that she would not do Saxon w/a gifted child.

 

I do not want to do something that is bad/not good for my child but I also don't want to jump the gun and switch curricula every year!

 

Background: we did Abeka math her K year (when she was 2) and it went from easy to hard really quickly. We switched to Saxon 1 for this year and she is doing really well! There is a good mix of easy (to pump her up) and challenging things so she does not get too frustrated but sticks with it (doesn't like to try hard things - perfectionist).

 

Oh, I am planning on doing MEP this summer with her b/c I have heard such great things!

 

But, what do you think? Saxon not for gifted children? Why? (I never have considered her gifted in math (she can read on a 3rd grade level and is doing math on a 1st grade level so sometimes I see her has behind - duh! not thinking! :tongue_smilie:)

[MissKNG]

If it's working for you and your dd, I wouldn't "worry" about whether or not it's for gifted children. How can that possibly be bad/not good she is doing well with Saxon?

[galtgrl]

We've had great success with Saxon here. My girls fit alot of "gifted" criteria, though we've never bothered with an I.Q. test. We do modify to fit their needs...we don't do all of the problems from any given lesson, we usually do about half. Also, we have combined lessons, doing 2 or 3 new concepts in one day sometimes. I have found (so far) that my girls can jump from 5/4 to 7/6, although with my oldest I did have her do 1/2 of 6/5 because I wasn't confident I was doing the right thing by jumping back then.

My oldest 2 have scored very well on the ACT this year as 7th and 8th graders so I'm pretty confident that Saxon is preparing them well.

Anyway, I would not recommend switching if your dd is doing well with it. Stick with what works for her! HTH. -J

[LauraGB]

If it's working for you and your dd, I wouldn't "worry" about whether or not it's for gifted children. How can that possibly be bad/not good she is doing well with Saxon?

 

I agree with this. I think it has a lot to do with where that child's gifts lie. If she is gifted across the board, then do whatever she likes and does well with. If she is gifted in math and the sort of analytical thinking that goes along with it, possibly Singapore would be a good choice. If she is gifted more in the art/literature, more abstract sort of things, I would think something more visual or even something systematic (like Saxon) would be helpful. I guess it really depends on the child and what they really like to do that works.

[Jill]

I did Saxon 5/4 early last fall with ds. Though he now does the EPGY math computer course each schoolday, we still use problems from the textbook for written work and sometimes use the multiplication and division workbook for speed quizzes. Saxon was very nice for him though I did sometimes skip ahead if he already had command of the concept. What seems to suit him however is doing practice work, almost daily, of things we've previously covered, just to keep it fresh. When he learned, for example, to borrow for subtraction, he got it quickly, whipped right through it. But if too much time went by and he hadn't used that skill, he would be iffy next time he had large subtraction problems that he couldn't just do in his head. So using the problems at the end of each section, just giving him a few each day to supplement the computer work, works nicely for him without too much struggle plus it keeps him doing some pencil work which has been an issue for him.

So yeah if it's working well for her, I wouldn't necessarily change it.

[kmacnchs]

I agree with this. I think it has a lot to do with where that child's gifts lie. If she is gifted across the board, then do whatever she likes and does well with. If she is gifted in math and the sort of analytical thinking that goes along with it, possibly Singapore would be a good choice. If she is gifted more in the art/literature, more abstract sort of things, I would think something more visual or even something systematic (like Saxon) would be helpful. I guess it really depends on the child and what they really like to do that works.

 

thanks everyone! That helps! Isn't it funny that what some stranger says has so much weight on my decisions :tongue_smilie: She is def. gifted MORE in the literature side. all the comments helped a lot! I second guess A LOT b/c I am so new to hsing!

[MissKNG]

I second guess A LOT b/c I am so new to hsing!

 

I second guess too because I'm new to HSing as well. But if it's working and she's doing well, it doesn't matter if someone else won't use it for a "gifted" kiddo. That's why HSing is so awesome - you can do what's best for yours!!

[Crimson Wife]

I can tell you the reasons why I personally would not use Saxon with a gifted child:

 

(1) I want a math program that really teaches the concepts and not just the algorithms. I had traditional math growing up and while I could always calculate quickly and correctly I never really understood why the formulas worked. It wasn't until I used Right Start to teach my oldest that the light bulb finally went on in my head. Dr. Liping Ma talks a lot about why conceptual understanding is so important in her book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics.

 

(2) All the repetition and spiraling. Average students may do very well with this format but I'm pretty sure it would drive my kids bonkers.

 

(3) I don't care for how the student has to copy down the problem from the textbook onto his/her paper. Many gifted kids are quite a bit farther ahead cognitively than their fine motor skills and the extra writing would be a stumbling block for them.

 

YMMV :001_smile:

[StartingOver]

If it's working for you and your dd, I wouldn't "worry" about whether or not it's for gifted children. How can that possibly be bad/not good she is doing well with Saxon?

 

:iagree: If it works why fix it.

 

I really like Saxon, and am using it the second time around with my younger children. I am adding in some MEP & Singapore, because my son likes them.

[KarenNC]

My daughter is much more advanced in language arts-related areas than she is in math (where she is basically on grade level). We are in the process of switching after 5.5 years with Singapore (Earlybird to 4A) to Saxon because she is just not having the success with Singapore that I want. She also has fought most of Singapore on an ongoing basis (except for the geometry). We have had to supplement with other things periodically all along to help her really "get" some topics. We switched to the standards edition to see if that would help and it did a bit, but not enough. She finally was able to say that she felt Singapore threw too much at her at one time.

 

I kept at it because everyone said that gifted kids needed Singapore, every other program would drive them insane, it was just busywork, etc. Basically, I have decided that that is ridiculous. "Everyone" does not know my child, does not see how math is a comparative struggle for her, etc. Gifted kids are notorious for asynchronous development so there is no one program for gifted kids in any subject. I switched reading programs because the ones "everyone" said she needed didn't fit and the change worked beautifully. Math should be no different.

 

So currently we are using the Key to series of books to plug some holes identified in the Saxon placement tests and going to start with 7/6 in the summer or fall. It may be more repetitious that she likes, but if so, we will deal with that when we hit that point. It's readily available used--I got the entire level for $25--so it is a minor financial risk to try and see if it works. Math is not something she is ever likely to love. I know that right now I am loving the fact that she *likes* the Key to series better than Singapore and math is no longer a daily struggle for us.

[EKS]

I can tell you the reasons why I personally would not use Saxon with a gifted child:

 

(1) I want a math program that really teaches the concepts and not just the algorithms. I had traditional math growing up and while I could always calculate quickly and correctly I never really understood why the formulas worked. It wasn't until I used Right Start to teach my oldest that the light bulb finally went on in my head. Dr. Liping Ma talks a lot about why conceptual understanding is so important in her book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics.

 

(2) All the repetition and spiraling. Average students may do very well with this format but I'm pretty sure it would drive my kids bonkers.

 

(3) I don't care for how the student has to copy down the problem from the textbook onto his/her paper. Many gifted kids are quite a bit farther ahead cognitively than their fine motor skills and the extra writing would be a stumbling block for them.

 

YMMV :001_smile:

 

:iagree:

[Reya]

I can tell you the reasons why I personally would not use Saxon with a gifted child:

 

(1) I want a math program that really teaches the concepts and not just the algorithms. I had traditional math growing up and while I could always calculate quickly and correctly I never really understood why the formulas worked. It wasn't until I used Right Start to teach my oldest that the light bulb finally went on in my head. Dr. Liping Ma talks a lot about why conceptual understanding is so important in her book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics.

 

(2) All the repetition and spiraling. Average students may do very well with this format but I'm pretty sure it would drive my kids bonkers.

 

(3) I don't care for how the student has to copy down the problem from the textbook onto his/her paper. Many gifted kids are quite a bit farther ahead cognitively than their fine motor skills and the extra writing would be a stumbling block for them.

 

YMMV :001_smile:

 

Yup.

[MissKNG]

I can tell you the reasons why I personally would not use Saxon with a gifted child:

 

(1) I want a math program that really teaches the concepts and not just the algorithms. I had traditional math growing up and while I could always calculate quickly and correctly I never really understood why the formulas worked. It wasn't until I used Right Start to teach my oldest that the light bulb finally went on in my head. Dr. Liping Ma talks a lot about why conceptual understanding is so important in her book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics.

 

(2) All the repetition and spiraling. Average students may do very well with this format but I'm pretty sure it would drive my kids bonkers.

 

(3) I don't care for how the student has to copy down the problem from the textbook onto his/her paper. Many gifted kids are quite a bit farther ahead cognitively than their fine motor skills and the extra writing would be a stumbling block for them.

 

YMMV :001_smile:

 

I don't know enough about Saxon for #1 and #3 on this list but #2 is the reason I decided against it. I didn't read any farther than the term "incremental development" in their catalog. The spiraling/repetition in Horizons is already driving us bonkers but I choose it for now cause it's suppose to be "advanced". I think we are going to start Singapore a little earlier than I figured then move Horizons to supplement.

 

But, it doesn't matter what works in my household or anyone else's....if your dd is doing well with Saxon then you definitely aren't doing anything wrong!! :D

[Tracy]

I agree with other posters that you don't need to change it if it is working--for now. I thought Horizons K (also spiral) was working so well for my dd5. Although I thought she was capable of more advanced math, she was not a mathy child, and didn't really have much interest in it. And then a few weeks ago, she started to do her math work at bedtime instead of her normal reading time. Then she asked for multiplication. I bought her a multiplication book from a local teachers' store to "test the waters" to see if she was really serious, and she has been working in it for a few days now.:001_huh:

 

I think with a gifted child, you just have to always be prepared to brace yourself to take the hard left turn:driving:, regardless of what may be working right now.

 

Tracy

[Donna]

I have used Saxon, with a bit of modification, for all 3 of my kids and it has worked just fine. The modification takes care of the problems with spiraling and repetition. I have tried other programs like Singapore and Miquon but for different reasons they didn't work and I came back to Saxon.

 

I think it really depends on the child what works for them.

[Jill]

p.s. I also received a set of Saxon teacher's books for free so I am not mad about using only a third of the book or so as a resource as I might be had I paid full price. I can grab from it what we need and let the rest rot. 8^)

[catz]

 

I think with a gifted child, you just have to always be prepared to brace yourself to take the hard left turn:driving:, regardless of what may be working right now.

 

Tracy

 

:iagree: This is so true! It's always a wild ride.

 

 

Singapore is a great fit for both my kids. Both have conceptual math knowledge beyond well where they're working in Singapore. I think you would know pretty fast if Saxon (or whatever curriculum) is not a fit for your child.

 

I have a math degree, and I strongly feel that different kids will need different approaches to math. Not every child is going to be ready to do conceptual math at the elementary level. If something's working for you at the moment, enjoy! :)

[KarenNC]

I think with a gifted child, you just have to always be prepared to brace yourself to take the hard left turn:driving:, regardless of what may be working right now.

 

That's certainly true in my experience. I'm beginning to feel like I've made so many left turns in so many areas over the last 5 years that I should try qualifying as a race car driver:D. However, I don't believe one should feel pressured to make that left turn (which may or may not ever be necessary) because of anything other than one's individual child's situation. One should not feel that a left turn is *required right now* because others think you should turn or that you can't make a particular turn because other people wouldn't take that turn for their children.

 

As I said, when I began hsing, I followed the general consensus of the boards that the only reasonable program to use with a bright or gifted child of any sort was Singapore. I kept ignoring the "turn signals," if you will:), from my child because they didn't fit with what everyone else was saying. I ignored the signs pointing to a particular turn because I, honestly, felt I would be scorned for taking that turn. I did this for years, then realized that *I* am the one hsing my child, not "everyone," and that the entire reason I was hsing was, like everyone else, to do what was best for my individual child. I realized that I was honestly unlikely to be scorned for my choice by anyone who mattered to me, because they all understand that we are doing what we believe is best for our children.

 

So we are going to try Saxon. It may or may not work, but currently the signs look promising and it is a proven curriculum. I realize I may be on the boards in a year asking for something that isn't Saxon and isn't Singapore:001_smile:, but I'll deal with that when I get there. I've done it before in other subjects.

 

If Saxon is working for the OP and I were her, I would continue with it. If the child were struggling, hating the program, etc, then I would look at other options, but look based on the specific reasons Saxon isn't working for that child rather than a generalized "I wouldn't use that for [any] gifted child." There's always going to be someone who wouldn't do x that you are doing and with which your child is doing well.

[kmacnchs]

Thanks everyone for all of the different viewpoints. We do the calendar time (b/c she is 3 and it is fun for her), the lesson, as much of the fact sheet until she gets a whole row correct (anywhere from 1 row to the whole page, dep. on newness & attitude), and 1 or no worksheet (we never do both sides).

 

It is working for now but it is good to know what signs to look for to switch. We are doing MEP this summer so she won't go straight to 2nd grade work b/c she is so young and to change it up.

 

thanks again!

 

katy

[Storm Bay]

In our house, Saxon did not work well for my gifted dc, even though one of mine insisted on continuing with it for 3 years. She skipped many chapers and many problems because it was far too much review. In the third one, I simply had her take the tests and go back and only do lessons where she didn't know how to do something. Not enough thinking outside the box for us and the word problems are not particulary good, IMO, although certainly not the worst. I didn't realize how much this was so until we switched my middle one from the middle of Saxon 1 to MUS and finally SM (the same year--she did both, but MUS isn't something I'd recommend carte blanche for gifted dc as a rule.) That said, my gifted eldest has certainly been okay even though I think she could have had a richer program before Algebra, and she has learned to think outside the box in math. She did have to readjust her word problem strategies, though.

 

MEP is good, as is Primary Mathematics (aka Singapre Math.) Ds did MEP as a summer math, but it was too teacher intensive for me to do year round. Life of Fred is a hit here, but I do more because we do a lot of math and only my eldest has done one math at a time for most of her homeschool time. After SM 6, my middle one did Mathematics by http://www.perpendicularpress.com, which is a Russian math I highly recommend.

 

We've done other things, but they're not necessariy for most gifted dc. fwiw, 2 of my dc are mathy & into science & one is mathy and into history but not science.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Karin

[Jen500]

I

After SM 6, my middle one did Mathematics by http://www.perpendicularpress.com, which is a Russian math I highly recommend.

 

We've done other things, but they're not necessariy for most gifted dc.

 

Could you tell me more about the Russian math book? I'm still trying to decide what direction to go after PM6.

[Storm Bay]

I second guess too because I'm new to HSing as well. But if it's working and she's doing well, it doesn't matter if someone else won't use it for a "gifted" kiddo. That's why HSing is so awesome - you can do what's best for yours!!

 

 

There is merit to this, and that's how I approached it with my eldest, so you can take what I have to say with a grain of salt. When I switched with my middle dd from Saxon 1 to MUS/Singapore Math I saw things my eldest missed out on even though she did very well with Saxon. Sure, she's managed to get there and do well, but I think she would have hated arithmetic a lot less than she did. She did well, but hated it until she got to Algebra. Had we started with something more outside the box from the time we took her out of ps it might have gone differently for her during those years.

 

That said, there are other subjects she loathes where we don't do nearly as well with getting a richer experience because she still hates them.

[Supertechmom]

 

I think with a gifted child, you just have to always be prepared to brace yourself to take the hard left turn:driving:, regardless of what may be working right now.

 

Tracy

 

I have used Saxon, with a bit of modification, for all 3 of my kids and it has worked just fine. The modification takes care of the problems with spiraling and repetition. I have tried other programs like Singapore and Miquon but for different reasons they didn't work and I came back to Saxon.

 

I think it really depends on the child what works for them.

 

:iagree::iagree: with both posts. You have to know your child and you have to be ready to switch on a dime with gifted. The more gifted the more dime changing. Saxon IN OUR HOUSEHOLD with mod gifted to profoundly area gifted was used as a review book and doorstop. Dear God, the 4year old could do 54 orally. In math, *I* had to learn to get out of their way and stop trying to be their teacher and just let them run with the program. Singapore fits that bill nicely because it is very easy to let it be student taught and teaches the whys behind the math instead of math tricks like I learned. Once the child understands the whys a gifted math child RUNS with math. Saxon was like hot pockers in their eyes. It droned on and on and on and on........I finally gave the saxon books away (the entire set).

 

But you must learn to do what WORKS FOR YOU even if everyone and their brother does it differently.:D

[Storm Bay]

. You have to know your child and you have to be ready to switch on a dime with gifted. The more gifted the more dime changing. But you must learn to do what WORKS FOR YOU even if everyone and their brother does it differently.:D

 

:iagree: We've had to switch on a dime before, and went through a half a dozen Algebra 1 programs (of course, dd did more than one of them, but two were huge flops.) Just because many gifted dc do well with Singapore does not mean it will work for all gifted dc, even all gifted math dc. (as painful as it is for me to say this ;):001_smile:) My eldest hated Singapore. She didn't mind 6A, but in 6B hated it and we went back to Saxon. I don't know if she'd have hated it if we'd started it when she was younger, though. She only did SM 6.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Karin

[KarenNC]

Once the child understands the whys a gifted math child RUNS with math. .......

 

But you must learn to do what WORKS FOR YOU even if everyone and their brother does it differently.:D

 

There's a big difference in saying "a gifted math child" and "a gifted child," as they are not synonymous, any more than "a gifted language child" and "a gifted child" are. It's that point that often gets lost in translation when someone says that "gifted kids should" or "gifted kids do" or "never do/use x with gifted kids." I've seen many "gifted math kids" who would hate or do horribly with some of the language arts, spelling, vocabulary, etc programs that we are using with my gifted language kid. That doesn't even begin to touch kids who are twice exceptional---gifted and have learning disabilities of some sort. I'm sure there are some kids who are across the board equally gifted, but I haven't met any of them:001_smile:.

[fractalgal]

I was told by someone here that she would not do Saxon w/a gifted child.

 

I do not want to do something that is bad/not good for my child but I also don't want to jump the gun and switch curricula every year!

 

Background: we did Abeka math her K year (when she was 2) and it went from easy to hard really quickly. We switched to Saxon 1 for this year and she is doing really well! There is a good mix of easy (to pump her up) and challenging things so she does not get too frustrated but sticks with it (doesn't like to try hard things - perfectionist).

 

Oh, I am planning on doing MEP this summer with her b/c I have heard such great things!

 

But, what do you think? Saxon not for gifted children? Why? (I never have considered her gifted in math (she can read on a 3rd grade level and is doing math on a 1st grade level so sometimes I see her has behind - duh! not thinking! :tongue_smilie:)

 

We used Saxon Math 1-3 successfully with several of my children. We did alter it in that we worked ahead of grade level and skipped sections of the meeting book that they didn't need extra review on.

 

Here is a study about Saxon Math and a program called Math Expressions. This study was based on an early level of Saxon - Saxon 1.

 

http://www.allbusiness.com/education-training/curricula-math-science-education/11808641-1.html

 

Also, Dr. Hung-Hsi Wu, a mathematician from UC Berkeley, reviewed Saxon K-3 for a California curriculum review.

 

Here is the conclusion written by Gerald Beer and Dr. Wu about Saxon K-3.

 

"The Saxon K-3 program is an unconventional yet effective means

to meet the state standards for the early grades. There are no

textbooks for the program; rather students are supplied

individual lesson folders that contain handout sheets devoted to

drill problems, guided class practice, and homework, even in

the first grade. Occasionally, there will be some special

in-class project in the folder. These handouts contain neither

explanations nor definitiions; in essence, they are worksheets."

"Despite the unusual format which makes it difficult for the

Program to explicitly meet some of the content criteria, we are

in fact recommending it enthusiastically. This program,

thoughtfully written by Nancy Larsen, does an extraordinary job

of guiding students, anticipating pitfalls, developing

mathematical reasoning appropriate to these grades, and

automatizing computational skills. The Program not only gives a

balanced treatment of the strands, but frequently covers areas

that should have been more explicit in the standards but weren't.

The Saxon program somehow succeeds at being minimalist and at the same time humanistic; it has something for visual/kinesthethic

learners and is not just mathematics for left-brainers."

 

Dr. Wu did not like the upper levels of Saxon, though.

 

If it is working for you, then I would not recommend switching from Saxon 1. For many people the early elementary levels of Saxon are too time consuming and teacher intensive. I did not follow Saxon exactly as prescribed (as described above) and used Singapore along side it, so take that into consideration.

 

I think its great that you are considering adding in MEP. My 5yo has done some of the Level 1 of MEP. It is very visual and fun for him.

[nmoira]

Here is a study about Saxon Math and a program called Math Expressions. This study was based on an early level of Saxon - Saxon 1.

 

http://www.allbusiness.com/education-training/curricula-math-science-education/11808641-1.html

This comparison was only against Investigations in Number, Data, and Space and Scott Foresman-Addison Wesley Mathematics, and for general classroom use, not gifted education. Likewise, the evaluation from Hu and Beer was for general classroom use.

 

My criteria for K-6 Math for a gifted student would be: strong on concepts, challenging, can be compacted if necessary, little "practice" and much "use" (i.e. use concepts in a variety of situations rather than practice skills in isolation). Singapore, with the IP and CWP (workbook optional), meets these criteria. I'm also liking what I'm seeing of MEP. I *think* it would be difficult to compact, but still relatively easy to accelerate: a gifted student wouldn't need as much scaffolding in the lessons and could move through more than one worksheet per day.

[nmoira]

Could you tell me more about the Russian math book? I'm still trying to decide what direction to go after PM6.

Here's something I posted previously:

 

This is an excellent choice for a child not ready to move into algebra, or as a transition from Primary Maths to an traditional language and logic based math program. Mathematics 6 has a more "mathy" feel than Singapore in terms of formal language and approach. It is elegant and logical, language based but not wordy. While Singapore excels conceptually, as it progresses through the primary sequence, I occasionally find the "simplified" visual explanations a bit tortured. An example is PM's approach to division by fractions. Compare this to the approach in Mathematics 6, which quickly and without fuss develops a simple proof showing that multiplying by the reciprocal is the same as dividing by a fraction.

 

(5/6)x = (2/3)

 

(5/6)/(5/6) x= (2/3) / (5/6)

 

x= (2/3) / (5/6)

 

 

 

(5/6) x = (2/3)

 

(6/5) * (5/6)x = (2/3) * (6/5)

 

x = (2/3) * (6/5)

 

 

 

(2/3) / (5/6) = (2/3) * (6/5)

 

[fractalgal]

This comparison was only against Investigations in Number, Data, and Space and Scott Foresman-Addison Wesley Mathematics, and for general classroom use, not gifted education. Likewise, the evaluation from Hu and Beer was for general classroom use.

 

My criteria for K-6 Math for a gifted student would be: strong on concepts, challenging, can be compacted if necessary, little "practice" and much "use" (i.e. use concepts in a variety of situations rather than practice skills in isolation). Singapore, with the IP and CWP (workbook optional), meets these criteria. I'm also liking what I'm seeing of MEP. I *think* it would be difficult to compact, but still relatively easy to accelerate: a gifted student wouldn't need as much scaffolding in the lessons and could move through more than one worksheet per day.

 

Hi Nmoira,

 

I used Saxon 1-3 successfully with both of my gifted children. :)

 

I cited the above article and review of Saxon to demonstrate that the Saxon K-3 curriculum in question has been reviewed and approved by mathematicians and curriculum reviewers. I stated above that the review was for a California curriculum (classroom) review.

 

We also used the IP and some of CWP from Singapore. I love them! I much prefer Singapore for my own personal use. I am still happy that we used Saxon, though. Saxon taught the math facts automatically - and yes it taught the concept behind it.

[kmacnchs]

There's a big difference in saying "a gifted math child" and "a gifted child," as they are not synonymous, any more than "a gifted language child" and "a gifted child" are. It's that point that often gets lost in translation when someone says that "gifted kids should" or "gifted kids do" or "never do/use x with gifted kids." I've seen many "gifted math kids" who would hate or do horribly with some of the language arts, spelling, vocabulary, etc programs that we are using with my gifted language kid. That doesn't even begin to touch kids who are twice exceptional---gifted and have learning disabilities of some sort. I'm sure there are some kids who are across the board equally gifted, but I haven't met any of them:001_smile:.

 

:iagree::iagree:Even though my dd1 is doing 1st grade math work (she is 3.5), I don't really consider her gifted in math - not trying to be mean, it's just that she is exceptionally(?) gifted in reading (reading on a 3rd grade level independently). She certainly is not bored w/Saxon (though it is a bit too much writing at times)...I wish I could do Singapore & MEP but we have NO hs budget (I just save my bday $$ and that doesn't go too far) and I get Saxon material practically free...we'll see. Thanks for all the input

[fractalgal]

Could you tell me more about the Russian math book? I'm still trying to decide what direction to go after PM6.

 

I agree with Karin, Mathematics 6 is a very good book.

 

My daughter is now using it; she went into it after PM5 so I don't know how it compares to PM6.

 

The depth of the problems and quality of the book are great. It has more of a pure math tone than singapore math, yet it is not overwhelming nor dry. The pages are not cluttered. It gives formal definitions and brief introductions to new ideas with correct mathematical usage. It has interesting math history that makes math inviting. It is very well done.

 

The translator, Willis Harte, has posted an answer key on the Perpendicular Press website; but it does not contain a solution manual. It is also only for the first three chapters. But I talked to him last week, and he told me he'd have one for the rest of the book by the end of the summer. He promised. ;)

 

Each problem set has an A set of problems and a B set of problems. The B problems are more challenging than the A set. I am currently writing a solution manuel for the B set of problems so that I can quickly grade the problems by the time my younger ones get to it. Be aware that it is a little extra work for the teacher.

 

Good luck. :)

[Storm Bay]

I agree with Karin, Mathematics 6 is a very good book.

 

The translator, Willis Harte, has posted an answer key on the Perpendicular Press website; but it does not contain a solution manual. It is also only for the first three chapters. But I talked to him last week, and he told me he'd have one for the rest of the book by the end of the summer. He promised. ;)

:)

 

There are answers for the first 4 chapters. At least there were a year ago when I downloaded the answer keys for the first 4 chapters. I'm looking forward to seeing the other two for when my ds does the book.

 

I agree with nMoira that not all dc need to do this before going to Algebra, although I do think there are things in it you don't see in Singapore Math. My middle one needed the help with the linguistic aspects of math, and after she was done she made a commented on what a good program it was, which is a first for her in math. Not that she never complained during it, though!

[fractalgal]

There are answers for the first 4 chapters. At least there were a year ago when I downloaded the answer keys for the first 4 chapters. I'm looking forward to seeing the other two for when my ds does the book.

 

I agree with nMoira that not all dc need to do this before going to Algebra, although I do think there are things in it you don't see in Singapore Math. My middle one needed the help with the linguistic aspects of math, and after she was done she made a commented on what a good program it was, which is a first for her in math. Not that she never complained during it, though!

 

Karin, I just checked and the answers are only for the first 3 chapters.

 

My daughter went into Math 6 from PM5 SE, and she has seen much of the content (not all) before, but the book goes into more depth than singapore in some problems and has much better formal math explanations.

 

My thought was that it would be great to have more math books from different levels besides just this one from Russia.

Edited April 17, 2010 by fractalgal

[Storm Bay]

Karin, I just checked and the answers are only for the first 3 chapters.

 

My daughter went into Math 6 from PM5 SE, and she has seen much of the content (not all) before, but the book goes into more depth than singapore in some problems and has much better formal math explanations.

 

My thought was that it would be great to have more math books from different levels besides just this one from Russia.

 

 

So, I checked. Today on his site there are only answers for the first 3 chapters. Nevertheless, in March 2009 I downloaded an Adobe file with the answers to Chapter 4. I opened it this afternoon, and that's exactly what I have. So we've both managed to be correct :D. Actually, last year I downloaded 4 files of answers for the 4 chapters, and this year he has the first three chapters in one file. He must be redoing this.

[fractalgal]

So, I checked. Today on his site there are only answers for the first 3 chapters. Nevertheless, in March 2009 I downloaded an Adobe file with the answers to Chapter 4. I opened it this afternoon, and that's exactly what I have. So we've both managed to be correct :D. Actually, last year I downloaded 4 files of answers for the 4 chapters, and this year he has the first three chapters in one file. He must be redoing this.

 

I probably have those chapter 4 answers somewhere then, too. I purchased the book over a year ago. I know I emailed him probably last summer and he said the answers for the rest of the book would be up by last January. :glare:

 

Hopefully he'll find some time to work on it this summer. So far his answer key has been very accurate. :)

[Jen500]

So, I checked. Today on his site there are only answers for the first 3 chapters. Nevertheless, in March 2009 I downloaded an Adobe file with the answers to Chapter 4. I opened it this afternoon, and that's exactly what I have. So we've both managed to be correct :D. Actually, last year I downloaded 4 files of answers for the 4 chapters, and this year he has the first three chapters in one file. He must be redoing this.

 

This book looks very interesting (Russian Math). I see it is oop, but is available as a pdf right now. I wonder if the 2nd edition is going to be any different than the first.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Jen3boys
typo

[Storm Bay]

This book looks very interesting (Russian Math). I see it is oop, but is available as a pd right now. I wonder if the 2nd edition is going to be any different than the first.

 

 

Is he doing a second edition? That could explain the differences in the answers, then, because the chapter 4 answer key start with slightly different problem number I think. Since it's a translation of a Russian book, I would think that it wouldn't deviate a whole lot unless there's a new edition of the Russian one he's translating.

[Jen500]

Is he doing a second edition? That could explain the differences in the answers, then, because the chapter 4 answer key start with slightly different problem number I think. Since it's a translation of a Russian book, I would think that it wouldn't deviate a whole lot unless there's a new edition of the Russian one he's translating.

 

The website says a 2nd edition will be released...but doesn't say when.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I was told by someone here that she would not do Saxon w/a gifted child.

 

I do not want to do something that is bad/not good for my child but I also don't want to jump the gun and switch curricula every year!

 

Background: we did Abeka math her K year (when she was 2) and it went from easy to hard really quickly. We switched to Saxon 1 for this year and she is doing really well! There is a good mix of easy (to pump her up) and challenging things so she does not get too frustrated but sticks with it (doesn't like to try hard things - perfectionist).

 

Oh, I am planning on doing MEP this summer with her b/c I have heard such great things!

 

But, what do you think? Saxon not for gifted children? Why? (I never have considered her gifted in math (she can read on a 3rd grade level and is doing math on a 1st grade level so sometimes I see her has behind - duh! not thinking! :tongue_smilie:)

 

I've used Saxon with my kids throughout elementary school. In the early years, they liked it quite a bit, especially the emphasis on manipulatives. Looking back, my middle son was not even 4 yo when he insisted on starting Saxon K with his brother. I thought that he'd lose interest in a few weeks, but we've never looked back.

 

Our pace has slowed some over the years, in part because we move so often. But they are in 5th and 6th grade and about to finish 8/7 and start work on algebra.

 

I've had a not broke, don't fix it mentality. Thus far, Saxon has continued to suit them. Sometimes we've had to repeat a lesson from a different direction or stay with a topic for a week until it really soaked in (division of fractions). But the lessons are the tools in my hands, not the other way around.

 

For us, the spiral format has been a good fit. My middle son is very smart, with an incredible memory. But also a perfectionist who would get upset if things weren't going the way he envisioned that they should. There were times when I had to go through a small frame setting talk before we started math. I would talk about his having "all the tools you need" and help him list the techniques and physical tools he had for doing math while he pictured putting them into his pencil bag. I think that spiraling allowed him to learn a small thing, then work with it for a few lessons in the lesson practice before adding the next twist.

 

On the other hand, it is possible that another curriculum that stuck with one topic at a time would have also suited him. It truly is hard to do education research. I can say that I haven't felt like Saxon was ever something that we were banging our heads against.

 

As for the writing in the upper levels, that has been something for us to work through. C was only in third grade when he started with 5/4 and his handwriting is still pretty childish. However, I'm one for encouraging them to write more of their work and do a little less in their heads because they will try to hold so much of the problem in their heads that they lose track of some small thing and get the answer wrong, but have no record to look at to see where they have stumbled.

 

Both of these kids were strong readers in the early grades. Both have tested in the gifted range, with my middle son in the upper levels of gifted. I have no hesitation or regrets about using Saxon with them. (Which is not to say that I think Saxon should be used by every child or every gifted child.)

[Storm Bay]

I've used Saxon with my kids throughout elementary school.

 

 

This was a good post (deleted most of it to save space.) Had Saxon worked for my middle dd and me, we might have done it all the way through and been happy, too. Nevertheless, I've been happy with doing what we've done. Thoughtful posts such as Sebastian's (this is just one eg, of course) about currcula I both like and don't like are part of what makes these forums so helpful.

[kmacnchs]

I've used Saxon with my kids throughout elementary school. In the early years, they liked it quite a bit, especially the emphasis on manipulatives. Looking back, my middle son was not even 4 yo when he insisted on starting Saxon K with his brother. I thought that he'd lose interest in a few weeks, but we've never looked back.

 

Our pace has slowed some over the years, in part because we move so often. But they are in 5th and 6th grade and about to finish 8/7 and start work on algebra.

 

I've had a not broke, don't fix it mentality. Thus far, Saxon has continued to suit them. Sometimes we've had to repeat a lesson from a different direction or stay with a topic for a week until it really soaked in (division of fractions). But the lessons are the tools in my hands, not the other way around.

 

For us, the spiral format has been a good fit. My middle son is very smart, with an incredible memory. But also a perfectionist who would get upset if things weren't going the way he envisioned that they should. There were times when I had to go through a small frame setting talk before we started math. I would talk about his having "all the tools you need" and help him list the techniques and physical tools he had for doing math while he pictured putting them into his pencil bag. I think that spiraling allowed him to learn a small thing, then work with it for a few lessons in the lesson practice before adding the next twist.

 

On the other hand, it is possible that another curriculum that stuck with one topic at a time would have also suited him. It truly is hard to do education research. I can say that I haven't felt like Saxon was ever something that we were banging our heads against.

 

As for the writing in the upper levels, that has been something for us to work through. C was only in third grade when he started with 5/4 and his handwriting is still pretty childish. However, I'm one for encouraging them to write more of their work and do a little less in their heads because they will try to hold so much of the problem in their heads that they lose track of some small thing and get the answer wrong, but have no record to look at to see where they have stumbled.

 

Both of these kids were strong readers in the early grades. Both have tested in the gifted range, with my middle son in the upper levels of gifted. I have no hesitation or regrets about using Saxon with them. (Which is not to say that I think Saxon should be used by every child or every gifted child.)

 

VERY HELPFUL thank you :)