LOSTies come in here! Richard/Ricardo/Ricardus Spoilers inside...

[BikeBookBread]

I'm not posting in the social group because no one uses it. :glare:

 

Alright, I was wrong about Ricardus -- he hasn't been on the island since ancient Roman times :lol: but he is OLD! His story was heartbreaking. Anyone know what he quoted when he was face to face with Smokey? What language was he speaking? It was kind of whispery.

 

We were told that the Island is the "gateway to Hell" and that "the Man in Black" can not be let loose off of the island or "everyone" (who is everyone...those on the island or the whole world?) will "Go to hell".

 

Jacob can't be God because he's not omnipotent (well, he can't be the Lord of the Bible, that is...). Does he just represent "Good"? Is MIB truly "The Devil" or just "Evil"?

 

I think last night was a watershed night for Lost...lots of answers, but mostly to questions we suspected we knew the answers to.

 

Anything totally blow you away?

[Carrie12345]

My interpretation- this isn't a hell/devil situation as we think of it, but inherent good working to keep inherent evil at bay.

[Chris in VA]

I posted my thoughts in a separate thread--I'll repost here!

 

Some thoughts on last night's episode (3/23)

 

 

Who's Good, Who's Bad--

So Richard thought his sin was unabsolvable, that he's going to H#ll when he dies, so he asks to never die. Hmmm. And Jacob can grant that. Interesting.

Suppose the priest was wrong--Richard, by not dying, will not see his wife again. He is already experiencing how bad it is not to die. At first I thought that maybe Jacob was "bad" for letting Richard do this. But maybe Jacob gave him a taste of eternal life (here on earth) as his way of letting Richard "sit and stare at the ocean" to come to the realization that dying is ok, and maybe Richard will come to realize that God will forgive him, even if the priest denied him absolution. (That priest was a jerk, and didn't represent Catholicism well--twisted it, really. The belief isn't that penance gives you forgiveness, but that it helps you realize what you have done and strengthens your character so you have less chance of committing the sin again.)

MIB sure does manipulate. I think it's clear he manifested as Richard's wife (when Richard could see her, not when Hurley saw her) to set Richard up to kill Jacob, playing on Richard's religious beliefs, also--Very interesting, how MIB operates.

 

However, I do believe MIB is right, that everyone is corruptable. However, I don't think the LOST writers do, so they are approaching the subject as "people ARE good" is the truth. We can understand why Jacob gave MIB the white stone now. It represents that people are good.

 

My time with WTM has taught me that now, all Jacob has to do is find ONE person who is not going to be corrupted, and his point will be proven.

 

I think Hurley will be that person. That will "sink" the Island. The argument will be won, and the Island will no longer be needed.

 

Oh, and the writers did say a while back that the Island can be described as a four-letter word--and they revealed that last night--CORK.

 

Veeery interesting.

 

 

 

Oh, and I don't think the island is the gateway to Hell, exactly, it's just keeping evil from coming out. Notice how MIB smashed the wine carafe, bypassing the cork, and the "evil" came out, anyway--who knows what is up his sleeve. He'll say anything to anyone to manipulate them into doing what he wants, and what he wants most is to get off the island.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Chris in VA

[elegantlion]

I don't have time to post my theories, but Richard now qualifies as one of the hottest guys on the island. :D Very cool episode.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm happy that my theory about the people on the island being Jobs seems correct. ;)

[BikeBookBread]

I'm happy that my theory about the people on the island being Jobs seems correct. ;)

 

I didn't hear your theory -- what is it? Sounds interesting.... Like Job being tested by Satan to see if he'll crack and no longer be faithful to God?

[Mrs Mungo]

I didn't hear your theory -- what is it? Sounds interesting.... Like Job being tested by Satan to see if he'll crack and no longer be faithful to God?

 

Yes, I mentioned it in one of the other threads. Remember when the kid shows up? Fake Locke chases him, trips then the child tells him "you know the rules. You can't kill him." That was the deal God made with Satan during Job's trials and temptations.

[BikeBookBread]

Yes, I mentioned it in one of the other threads. Remember when the kid shows up? Fake Locke chases him, trips then the child tells him "you know the rules. You can't kill him." That was the deal God made with Satan during Job's trials and temptations.

 

I DO remember that....good catch.

 

Job lost everything, and then re-gained 7-fold after he passed the test. Everyone has lost "it all" -- family, career, sanity, health, etc... Duh. Why haven't I ever made that connection before?

[OhM]

What did everyone think about the words that MIB uses to send Ricardo to kill Jacob being identical to Dogen sending Sayid to kill MIB/Locke? Was it just a cute symmetry by the writers or meant to show us something? Do both of them have some special ability to manipulate with their words?

[akmommy]

I think Jacob gave Richard eternal life because he needed an intermediary between himself and the people he brought to the island. He saw good in Richard and Richards desire to atone for his sin. The white stone represented Richard as being won over to good.

It was when the people on the boat started killing each other that the MIB appeared because he couldn't take them until they had already committed evil. He could not take Richard forcefully but had to try to manipulate him because Richard had not committed evil on the Island.

Jacob knew he was going to be killed (even knew it when he visited the Oceanic 6 as children) and needed to choose a replacement. They were chosen as candidates for his replacement because without someone to keep the MIB on the Island he can leave and unleash evil on the entire world.

 

Anyway that's just my theory so far.

[Mrs Mungo]

Also, the book of Bible that Richard was reading? Luke Chapter 4 in which Christ is tempted in the wilderness, he also casts out evil spirits.

 

What did everyone think about the words that MIB uses to send Ricardo to kill Jacob being identical to Dogen sending Sayid to kill MIB/Locke? Was it just a cute symmetry by the writers or meant to show us something? Do both of them have some special ability to manipulate with their words?

 

I think there is something more to it than symmetry.

[KnitWit]

Thanks for this! We missed last night due to a band/choir concert.

 

I find all your theories very interesting....and I just want to say DANG!!! for missing last night!!!

 

I need to TRY to remember to watch it early next week!!!

[kathkath]

Thanks for this! We missed last night due to a band/choir concert.

 

I find all your theories very interesting....and I just want to say DANG!!! for missing last night!!!

 

I need to TRY to remember to watch it early next week!!!

 

you can watch it before then on abc.com :)

[KnitWit]

you can watch it before then on abc.com :)

 

OOOhhhh!!! Thank you very much! You are my new best friend! LOL!

[Chris in VA]

I DO remember that....good catch.

 

Job lost everything, and then re-gained 7-fold after he passed the test. Everyone has lost "it all" -- family, career, sanity, health, etc... Duh. Why haven't I ever made that connection before?

 

Ooo, I love that--so LOST is not about being lost in location--lost in a place, but the central theme is,

 

How do people deal with LOSS?

 

Oooo... I really like this.

[Saille]

He could not take Richard forcefully but had to try to manipulate him because Richard had not committed evil on the Island.

 

 

I like this, but I have questions:

 

Why, then, did the MIB/Flocke/Black smoke kill the original Oceanic pilot immediately, while he was still strapped into his seat? What could he have done wrong? And if what he did wrong happened pre-island and that's the explanation, why does Flocke leave people like Kate, Sawyer and Sayid alone?

[Mrs Mungo]

I like this, but I have questions:

 

Why, then, did the MIB/Flocke/Black smoke kill the original Oceanic pilot immediately, while he was still strapped into his seat? What could he have done wrong? And if what he did wrong happened pre-island and that's the explanation, why does Flocke leave people like Kate, Sawyer and Sayid alone?

 

I'm not sure what all "rules" smoky has to follow. We do know he cannot harm candidates-Kate, Sawyer, etc.

[BikeBookBread]

I'm not sure what all "rules" smoky has to follow. We do know he cannot harm candidates-Kate, Sawyer, etc.

 

So was Richard a candidate originally?

 

Is Hurley still a candidate, or is he a "protector" of candidates? He seems SO different than the other candidates. He doesn't seem "lost" to me. He seems so much more grounded. He was the "keeper" of the numbers, etc. I can't remember seeing his name on the ceiling or wheel, and if it was there, was it crossed out?

 

Very O/T, but I SOOOO need a DVR, but we don't have cable. We have a digital broadcast dish (not Dish Network, etc...) that comes into our TV through a cable line. Does anyone know if DVRs work without having paid cable?

[SproutMamaK]

Hurley's name was in the cave, and his corresponding number was on the wheel. Both were not crossed out. His name on the rock was "Reyes", I believe - I forget exactly how to spell it.

 

I think that out the end of this, Hurley will be the one to save them all, to everyone's surprise (perhaps even Jacob's). No one expects anything of him, and we all know how they like their plot twists. ;) It seems almost like they're intentionally downplaying him thus far. It MUST be for a purpose.

[kokotg]

I'm wondering what this means for the sideways world, where the island is at the bottom of the ocean. That world doesn't seem to have an extra helping of evil. The opposite, if anything, since Ben, Jack, Sawyer, et. al. seem to be a good bit more emotionally stable and capable of redeeming themselves than in Sideways world.

[BikeBookBread]

Hurley's name was in the cave, and his corresponding number was on the wheel. Both were not crossed out. His name on the rock was "Reyes", I believe - I forget exactly how to spell it.

 

Oh, that's right...

 

I think that out the end of this, Hurley will be the one to save them all, to everyone's surprise (perhaps even Jacob's). No one expects anything of him, and we all know how they like their plot twists. ;) It seems almost like they're intentionally downplaying him thus far. It MUST be for a purpose.

 

I think you are right...

[Mrs Mungo]

So was Richard a candidate originally?

 

No, I don't think Richard was ever a candidate.

 

When Ben was confronted with his daughter, there was mention of him being "judged" by smoky. We can assume that he judged the other men on the boat and killed them. Maybe he judged Richard and found him to be penitent and therefore did not kill him? The pilot is a tricky one-how long had it been since smoky was confronted with anyone new? Maybe he lost his temper? Like I said, I don't know what "rules" he is subject to and how many of these life and death decisions are his to make.

 

Is Hurley still a candidate, or is he a "protector" of candidates? He seems SO different than the other candidates. He doesn't seem "lost" to me. He seems so much more grounded. He was the "keeper" of the numbers, etc. I can't remember seeing his name on the ceiling or wheel, and if it was there, was it crossed out?

 

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Jacob%27s_candidates

[atozmom]

Ok, this is just a thought, but........I think it's possible that MIB/smokey did not kill Richard because he knew how badly he wanted to live. I think he felt that he would be able to manipulate Richard easily because of his emotional (and physical) state, thus being able to talk him into killing Jacob, which would allow him to get off of the island. Then of course after Richard talked to Jacob and Jacob placed his hand on him, Richard could not die. Maybe it had nothing at all to do with judgment and sins. :confused:

 

This is why I love this show, it just keep you guessing.

[TXMary2]

I cried for Richard! I have always thought he came on the Black Rock so I was glad to see I was right.

 

Overall, I am still confused. :001_huh:

[TXMary2]

Yes, I mentioned it in one of the other threads. Remember when the kid shows up? Fake Locke chases him, trips then the child tells him "you know the rules. You can't kill him." That was the deal God made with Satan during Job's trials and temptations.

 

Very interesting!

[SproutMamaK]

Rose was a candidate? Somehow I missed that! Is she still, or was her name crossed out?

[clarkacademy]

Rose was a candidate? Somehow I missed that! Is she still, or was her name crossed out?

 

 

Thought.... Rose and bernard disappeared when the island flashed back in the past right? The couple that were found in the caves in the first episodes I think it is them I think they were the skeleton couple

[TXMary2]

Thought.... Rose and bernard disappeared when the island flashed back in the past right? The couple that were found in the caves in the first episodes I think it is them I think they were the skeleton couple

 

I don't think so. The skeleton couple was there from Season 1. Also, Rose and Bernard are living in a hideaway they built in the jungle. Remember the episode where Rose was screaming something like "Oh no, they found us!"

[clarkacademy]

I don't think so. The skeleton couple was there from Season 1. Also, Rose and Bernard are living in a hideaway they built in the jungle. Remember the episode where Rose was screaming something like "Oh no, they found us!"

 

 

True but still I wanna know who was in the cave that is like my longest question I have been wondering LOL!!!!

[TXMary2]

True but still I wanna know who was in the cave that is like my longest question I have been wondering LOL!!!!

 

I am sticking to the Adam and Eve theory. :lol:

[muffinmom]

Here's a theory my friend posted on FB:

 

the island = Eden

Smoky = the serpent

Jacob = the angel assigned to guard the entrance (and to keep Smoky trapped IN)

the island's spacetime-bending properties = the angel's flaming sword "which turned every way"

Richard is immortal because Jacob had him eat from a certain tree in ...a garden on the island. (the tree of life mentioned in Genesis)

 

Very interesting.

 

One thing I struggle with is that the name "Jacob" means "deceiver, or supplanter (one who usurps the place of, especially through intrigue or underhanded tactics)." Since names seem to carry significance in this show, I can't help but think they named him that for a reason...but what reason?

 

Love this show.

[Chris in VA]

I've heard the writers say there is still the possibility that Jacob is lying.

 

OH, I hope not, but I think so.

[Charles Wallace]

Yes, I mentioned it in one of the other threads. Remember when the kid shows up? Fake Locke chases him, trips then the child tells him "you know the rules. You can't kill him." That was the deal God made with Satan during Job's trials and temptations.

 

Oh, cool!! I had not thought of that.

 

I keep constantly flashing on something I'm sure is hardly original or exclusive to me, and that's the temptation of Christ by Satan on the mountain, where Satan offers him everything...All This Can Be Yours! :D

 

MIB does this, obviously, with Richard and with others: Richard can have his wife back; Sayid can have Nadia (or Shannon); Ben can have power. However, I think what he offers is nothing more than a Total Recall-esque illusion or delusion of "reality." Jacob? Harsh truth with Jacob here: he can't do that. He can't give you a fake world, only this real world with its faults and choices. You can always choose to take the red pill, as it were, or stick in the Matrix and enjoy your steak.

 

I found it interesting that Richard was touched first by the MIB.

 

Any suspicion that Whitfield and Widmore are essentially related?

Edited March 25, 2010 by Charles Wallace

[Charles Wallace]

So was Richard a candidate originally?

 

Is Hurley still a candidate, or is he a "protector" of candidates? He seems SO different than the other candidates. He doesn't seem "lost" to me. He seems so much more grounded. He was the "keeper" of the numbers, etc. I can't remember seeing his name on the ceiling or wheel, and if it was there, was it crossed out?

 

Very O/T, but I SOOOO need a DVR, but we don't have cable. We have a digital broadcast dish (not Dish Network, etc...) that comes into our TV through a cable line. Does anyone know if DVRs work without having paid cable?

 

Remember, Hurley was never supposed to be there.

 

There were about twelve things that happened to prevent Hurley from making the 815 flight -- his alarm didn't go off (a factor sufficient to stop Lapidus), his taxi broke down, he went to the wrong gate, and so on. "Fate" intervened, but "chance" -- or Hurley's own determination -- acted to override the default program, that Hurley wasn't supposed to be there.

[Charles Wallace]

Hurley's name was in the cave, and his corresponding number was on the wheel. Both were not crossed out. His name on the rock was "Reyes", I believe - I forget exactly how to spell it.

 

I think that out the end of this, Hurley will be the one to save them all, to everyone's surprise (perhaps even Jacob's). No one expects anything of him, and we all know how they like their plot twists. ;) It seems almost like they're intentionally downplaying him thus far. It MUST be for a purpose.

 

I find his name significant. Reyes= "kings." I'm thinking, of course, of the three Magi who visited the infant Christ. And of course, in a character who is so closely associated with games and game-playing, the name "hurley" is also important: it's a game like an ancient Celtic version of lacrosse, if memory serves.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Charles Wallace

[Mejane]

I have no idea what's going on, but I thought last night's episode was the best so far this season.

[Rhonda in TX]

Once this show is over, I'm going to start over at the beginning at watch it all over again. Y'all are mentioning so many things that I either missed or had totally forgotten. :tongue_smilie: