At what point do you stop comparing to PS

[pamd]

I pulled my ds out in 3rd grade and realized how much he didn't know after being an honor roll student. This is my 2nd year and it is frustrating when I worked all last year on multiplication because I found out he didn't know them like he should, now I realize he still struggles with addition. I keep going back to work on the foundations I know he needs but he is suppose to be in 5th grade but I am in the middle of Saxon 54 and R&S 4 (which I was told R&S are more advanced to get the grade below.) Do I decide to consider him in 5th grade again next year or just keep trudging along.:ohmy:

[m0mmaBuck]

I'm new to HS'ing and am still considering putting DS back in PS but....

 

I chose to remediate DS in LA's because even though the PS said he was ready to push into 3rd grade by Oct of his 2nd grade year, the kid has no grasp of the rules of spelling, phonics, grammar, and so on. Even though the school system was ready to bump him a grade ahead, I find that he has many holes in his foundation that will make the rest of his academic life more difficult. Therefore he is doing "First Grade" LA.... but "3rd Grade" Math... And I still consider him a 2nd grader overall because that's where his age would land him in the PS.

 

I think you have to look at where your child is subject by subject and choose your curriculum appropriately. I don't know that that ever changes. But as far as what "grade" he is in, that for me is tied to DS's age rather than what level he is studying. What grade would he be plopped into in a PS?

 

Does that make sense?

[pamd]

Thanks that does make sense. Like you I can not believe the holes he has in LA's and Math and I want to build firm foundations so he won't struggle later, but I don't want to hurt his self esteem by telling him we are going to consider him a 5th grader again and what do you do when doing test they ask for grade level. I did the P.A.S.S. last year and used 4th grade do I use 5th this year or 4th or what? I am confussed and he doesn't need anything to break his spirit. What do you think?

[melmichigan]

If you are required to test by your state I would just go with what grade the PS would consider him and adjust your materials as needed to meet his needs in that subject.

[Halcyon]

I would just say we need to do extra work in certain areas, and let him move ahead (slowly) in the other areas. The beauty of homeschooling is that you can slow down and plug those holes now. I would not consider moving ahead at any sort of pace until he has his basics down cold. Better now than when he's in 9th grade.

[Halcyon]

Thanks that does make sense. Like you I can not believe the holes he has in LA's and Math and I want to build firm foundations so he won't struggle later, but I don't want to hurt his self esteem by telling him we are going to consider him a 5th grader again and what do you do when doing test they ask for grade level. I did the P.A.S.S. last year and used 4th grade do I use 5th this year or 4th or what? I am confussed and he doesn't need anything to break his spirit. What do you think?

 

There's no reason he should feel badly. He knew why you pulled him out, right? So he should recognize that certain areas will need extra work. Iam sure he's strong in some areas, so remind him of that, yet at the same time be sure you don't slack on his weaker areas just so that he doesn't feel bad. I am absolutely one for making sure a child feels good about himself, but if he doesn't know his basics, then he doesn't know his basics. Blame the PS if you have to ;)

[hsmom]

Keep working on what you are, then this summer do a "review" and try to fill in some of the gaps. This worked wonders for my son. He was doing multiplication in ps, then when I brought him home I figured out he had very little idea of what he was doing. His math and LA foundation was not there. He was not solid in addition or subtraction, let alone doing multiplication or moving on to division.

 

I told him we were going to review and make sure he had all the right skills to learn further on. Also this would help him have an easier time learning new stuff if he really knows the other stuff better. He agreed and it was awesome.

 

Stop worrying about the grade they are in, worry about what level they are at. No kid is the same. So comparing him to where he should be in ps is not fair. IMO. Before you know it he will be where you think he needs to be and beyond.

[pamd]

We pulled him out of ps because we wanted more family time and to teach him about God and didn't agree with some things being taught in ps. So until home school he never had a problem with being behind he was always ahead and honor roll. How do you go from that to struggling?

[pamd]

Keep working on what you are, then this summer do a "review" and try to fill in some of the gaps. This worked wonders for my son. He was doing multiplication in ps, then when I brought him home I figured out he had very little idea of what he was doing. His math and LA foundation was not there. He was not solid in addition or subtraction, let alone doing multiplication or moving on to division.

 

I told him we were going to review and make sure he had all the right skills to learn further on. Also this would help him have an easier time learning new stuff if he really knows the other stuff better. He agreed and it was awesome.

 

Stop worrying about the grade they are in, worry about what level they are at. No kid is the same. So comparing him to where he should be in ps is not fair. IMO. Before you know it he will be where you think he needs to be and beyond.

Thanks that was very encouraging. Sometimes all you need is to remember what your doing it for and to hear it from someone else really helps. I just hate when it comes to testing and they ask the grade or others ask what grade his is in because I do work on the level in each subject that I feel he is at but don't ever want him to lose the confidence he has from doing so well in ps and then realizing he didn't know as much as we all thought.

[m0mmaBuck]

My son questioned the fact that we were using a 1st grade book for LA when he is clearly in the 2nd grade. I talked with him about his struggles, primarily with spelling, and told him I thought that reviewing some of the rules he should have learned in the 1st grade would make school easier and more enjoyable in the future. That made sense to him. He loves the fact that he can breeze through certain parts of the lessons. It actually makes him more confident since he is not struggling with every single aspect of language.

[pamd]

That makes sense. What is the best way to go forward with Math since I am using Saxon Math 54 and he enjoys it but after spending most of the year last year our first year home schooling on multiplication and know I see he needs improvement in addition in subtraction, would you recommend continueing with his saxon and just adding some addition and subtraction. When I first tried this approach my ds really started getting confused and answer addition questions with multiplication answers which where right if we where multiplying.

[hsmom]

He will know what he should in no time at all. That is the wonderful part of hsling in a matter of a few months you can get so much done.

[hsmom]

How about making up some time tests that are addition, then subtraction, then multiplication. Then when you feel comfortable he is doing good with them separate. Then start making some with all three on a timed test. This should help him look a lot more carefully at what the problem is.

[melmichigan]

I would keep going if he isn't struggling and add in some review of addition and subtraction. Some kids find them easier after they have learned multiplication. If he is struggling then I would pause and review. I took my DD back and through 3 years of math this year just to make sure the basics were really there.

[pamd]

I feel like saying duh. I didn't even think of that. I guess that is why I am blessed to have this place to go and vent. You are awesome thank you.

[pamd]

I will try this and the other methods and see what works. He was getting to where he hated math but once we worked almost all year last year on mutiplication he likes it now. Yeah! Thank you so much for your time and support.

[Hedgehogs4]

i sort of tell people i just don't know what grade he's in.

 

actually, he's a very capable third grader by ps standards and age, but because we do not approach any subject the way they do, he will test as a second grader again, just to be sure the tests can make sense to him. i really don't care, nor does he.

[Ellie]

I would *always* consider a child to be in the grade he'd be in if he were in school while working with him at his ability. So yes, my recommendation would be to say that your dc is a 5th grader next year.

 

I'd also recommend using either Saxon or R&S, probably Saxon, as it goes into algebra and all.

[pamd]

I really like your thoughts. Thanks

[pamd]

Thanks for your imput.

[Sahamamama]

Thanks that does make sense. Like you I can not believe the holes he has in LA's and Math and I want to build firm foundations so he won't struggle later, but I don't want to hurt his self esteem by telling him we are going to consider him a 5th grader again and what do you do when doing test they ask for grade level. I did the P.A.S.S. last year and used 4th grade do I use 5th this year or 4th or what? I am confussed and he doesn't need anything to break his spirit. What do you think?

 

Just my two cents from when I tutored my nephew. He, too, was in 5th grade, but was writing, spelling, and doing math at 1st/2nd grade levels. His General Knowledge was limited to video games -- no history, grammar, science, Bible, not much of anything in that lovely head of his.

 

We worked on everything, for the time I had him, and he really grew from a focus on the basics, from the one-on-one attention, and from having to do neat/disciplined work. Perhaps, with your son, you can break his spirit if you ever show you think that HE can't do the work, but it will not break his spirit if you tell him that he doesn't know because he wasn't TAUGHT. Tell him that there are things in life that we only learn by being taught. Writing is a good example, he has to be taught this, not just "pick it up."

 

If you talk to a 5th grader who struggles, it's not as if that aged child is unaware of having struggled. I have girls, but working with these boys is in my heart. They are all over the place, so it's not just your boy. And, believe me, they KNOW that they don't have the skills they need in place.

 

Tell him that you WILL teach him!

 

Tell him that he WILL learn what he needs to know, that you will patiently and firmly get him to that good destination -- on-level work. You just don't know when. Give him the idea that it is going to take some courage, because it will. I hope that helps you both! Good journey.

[pamd]

Wow I cried when I read your message this is exactly what I do and how I feel. I just worry when people ask his grade level to me with hs I don't think it should be grade levels just plan on being and doing what God created you to do at your own individual pace. I guess so many people even hs try to compare children instead of realize we are all special creations that learn and grow at Gods' time not ours or anyone else's. Your words where a blessing and encouragement. Thank you.

 

 

Just my two cents from when I tutored my nephew. He, too, was in 5th grade, but was writing, spelling, and doing math at 1st/2nd grade levels. His General Knowledge was limited to video games -- no history, grammar, science, Bible, not much of anything in that lovely head of his.

 

We worked on everything, for the time I had him, and he really grew from a focus on the basics, from the one-on-one attention, and from having to do neat/disciplined work. Perhaps, with your son, you can break his spirit if you ever show you think that HE can't do the work, but it will not break his spirit if you tell him that he doesn't know because he wasn't TAUGHT. Tell him that there are things in life that we only learn by being taught. Writing is a good example, he has to be taught this, not just "pick it up."

 

If you talk to a 5th grader who struggles, it's not as if that aged child is unaware of having struggled. I have girls, but working with these boys is in my heart. They are all over the place, so it's not just your boy. And, believe me, they KNOW that they don't have the skills they need in place.

 

Tell him that you WILL teach him!

 

Tell him that he WILL learn what he needs to know, that you will patiently and firmly get him to that good destination -- on-level work. You just don't know when. Give him the idea that it is going to take some courage, because it will. I hope that helps you both! Good journey.

[Sahamamama]

Wow I cried when I read your message this is exactly what I do and how I feel. I just worry when people ask his grade level to me with hs I don't think it should be grade levels just plan on being and doing what God created you to do at your own individual pace. I guess so many people even hs try to compare children instead of realize we are all special creations that learn and grow at Gods' time not ours or anyone else's. Your words where a blessing and encouragement. Thank you.

 

Of what value is a high wall, if it topples over?

 

A good foundation is worth the time it takes to lay it.

 

Be encouraged, and build well. :grouphug:

[Jennefer@SSA]

Of what value is a high wall, if it topples over?

 

A good foundation is worth the time it takes to lay it.

 

Be encouraged, and build well. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: What a great word! I think I may borrow this for a future blog post! Would you mind?

[pamd]

Your words are so wise. Thanks for sharing them. You are a blessing.

[irizarry4]

By the way, whenever my dc (who were also pulled out of the PS Gifted and Talented track, for similar reasons to yours, only to find out there were huge gaps in knowledge too) when they ask why are we using level 2 of writing in 5th grade, I simply reply that HS'ing books don't have grade levels, and they teach things in a different order than PS teachers, so that is why the number on the spine of the book won't match their grade. End of story. Most HS curriculum is deliberately not associated with a grade level for this very reason.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

We pulled him out of ps because we wanted more family time and to teach him about God and didn't agree with some things being taught in ps. So until home school he never had a problem with being behind he was always ahead and honor roll. How do you go from that to struggling?

 

 

We took our daughters out of PS because there was a total conflict with what they were being taught VS what we believed. My oldest daughter completed 4th grade in PS and started 5th grade in HS. She couldnt do 5th grade math. She couldnt do 4th grade math. I had to take her down to a 3rd grade level and she also was an honor student in PS. Makes you wonder what the student who are not honor students know. Its quite sad that that is the level of most* public schools. I took our time. I didnt get any lower curriculum for her because I didnt want her to feel "dumb". It wasnt her fault! I went based on the world book encyclopedia's typical course of study and we just did review. Once I got her up to par we started the 5th grade math book. It was then that I decided to do math year round. We do math (half lessons) on our breaks (Christmas, spring, summer, and any others we take) just so they do not loose what they have learned.

 

She also didnt know anything about American History after leaving public school. I got her caught up there basically with library books until I found a great American History program.

 

She didnt know anything about world history (except that mummys were in Egypt where the pyramids are :001_huh:) That being said I would LOVE to know what they studied the first 4 years of elementry school. So that is why this year we started MOH 1. That is the reason we do an american history and a world history program this year and will next year. I dont do it in a way that its too much (world history we do at night as kind of a family read aloud time) But I feel the public school system (in 2 states) failed my kids miserably. I feel like it is also my fault for not catching it sooner and doing something about it sooner.

 

Im sorry I went on a total ramble there. Im not sure if I even answered your question.... but that was my PS school experience. If anything, I think public school systems should take advice from "unqualified home school parents" <---- Our public school superintendents words at a homeschool meeting he insisted on coming to.

Edited March 24, 2010 by wy_kid_wrangler04

[pamd]

It is nice to hear I am not the only one out there. I am shocked like you said what do the dc that are not honor roll learning? I like you feel like I should have caught this problem before home schooling but all we can do is go forward now. Thanks so much for your imput and time.

[lionfamily1999]

Thanks that does make sense. Like you I can not believe the holes he has in LA's and Math and I want to build firm foundations so he won't struggle later, but I don't want to hurt his self esteem by telling him we are going to consider him a 5th grader again and what do you do when doing test they ask for grade level. I did the P.A.S.S. last year and used 4th grade do I use 5th this year or 4th or what? I am confussed and he doesn't need anything to break his spirit. What do you think?

How'd he do on the test? I noticed with ds that things he seems to be behind in (imo) he tests very well with. If that is the case, then keep moving him ahead (as far as the school and tests are concerned) and do whatever remedial work you think he needs :D

[pamd]

He did well in areas I thought he would struggle. Overall he had average or high he was low in some LA. All I ask from my ds is to do is best I don't ask for more than average if it is above I love it but if he tries his best that is all he can do. I am going to do the same test this year and see how he does? I am really determined with God's strength to make this work with as little frustration as possible.

[lionfamily1999]

He did well in areas I thought he would struggle. Overall he had average or high he was low in some LA. All I ask from my ds is to do is best I don't ask for more than average if it is above I love it but if he tries his best that is all he can do. I am going to do the same test this year and see how he does? I am really determined with God's strength to make this work with as little frustration as possible.

What I'm trying to tell you is that your ds is fine fine fine. He'd probably still be honor roll in ps. Keep doing what you're doing and there's no (imo) need to hold him back a grade as far as the local school system is concerned.

 

Really, my ds (pulled in 2nd) didn't even know what "parts of speech" meant. We started with FLL1, WWE1 and a ton of other first grade material, because (as the other poster mentioned) his foundation was full of holes. If you'd have seen the materials we used, you would've thought I'd moved him back to first grade, but when testing time came I used the 2nd grade tests and he did really well. This year we're nearly caught up and part of me is tempted to get him the next grade up's test (just to see if he could do it), but I won't ;) because there's no need to confuse his standing in the school system, to them he'll be in whatever grade he would've been in had he stayed in ps.

[The Girls' Mom]

I'm another one to say that I wouldn't worry about the grade level AT ALL. I pulled my dd (also an honor roll student) out in 6th grade only to find out that she was about 2 years behind where she 'should' be. She's catching up fine....she'll be in Algebra I by the end of '8th' grade.

 

My PS'd neice also makes very good grades in school. She looked at my younger dd's Saxon 5/4 book and didn't recognize half the stuff they are doing. She's still trying to learn division. So your son probably isn't a bit behind what the PS kids are doing.

 

I also wanted to add that my dd will often 'forget' the basic stuff when she has learned a new concept. (she forgot how to do long division about a month ago...and she's been doing that for a few years!) With a little drill it often comes right back.

[pamd]

Thanks Apryl & Julie your words mean a lot and that is what I am going to do. Keep keeping on and not worrying about grades and give him a great foundation. I appreciate you all and everyone who has responded. This forum is a blessing and nice to know your not alone really helps so much. Thanks

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

all we can do is go forward now

 

That is exactly right! :iagree:

[Pam B]

I pulled my ds out in 3rd grade and realized how much he didn't know after being an honor roll student. This is my 2nd year and it is frustrating when I worked all last year on multiplication because I found out he didn't know them like he should, now I realize he still struggles with addition. I keep going back to work on the foundations I know he needs but he is suppose to be in 5th grade but I am in the middle of Saxon 54 and R&S 4 (which I was told R&S are more advanced to get the grade below.) Do I decide to consider him in 5th grade again next year or just keep trudging along.:ohmy:

 

 

At the point when you realize no matter how bad you think you are --- you know it's better.

[pamd]

Thanks. I have had nothing but wonderful support and love all of you and this forum.

[KJsMom]

I also had to pull my dd from ps and found that she was "behind". When people ask what grade she is in I just tell them her age. Usually that is all they really want to know anyway. She does 2nd grade math, and 4th grade LA. We are using Math Mammoth so she doesn't even see a level, it isn't an issue.

[johnandtinagilbert]

We pulled him out of ps because we wanted more family time and to teach him about God and didn't agree with some things being taught in ps. So until home school he never had a problem with being behind he was always ahead and honor roll. How do you go from that to struggling?

You start by recognizing and explaining to ds that you pulled your son b/c you have different standards. Those standards are also academic. Explain to him that while the ps says everything is great, you believe he can live to a higher standard -- God's best. God's best requires he work a little harder in some areas, so you need to go back and insert God's standard into school as well. Math facts are easy to improve....do speed drills, copywork, computer flash cards and games every.single.day. until memorized. There is no need to backtrack for the rest of math, just work on the memorization. Remedial fact finding can always be incorporated as FUN. Math facts are easier to correct the gap than many other areas.

 

Basically, we do not compare to public school, save one general statement....my standards are not the same, so I cannot compare them...quite frankly, we home school to be better than what they could get in p.s....otherwise, why bother?

 

You'll find it averages about 3 years of home schooling for most b4 the whole comparison, worried about socialization thing fades to oblivion and you realize you can't compare apples to oranges :)

 

Have fun with him!

[pamd]

Thanks so much I appreciate your words of wisdom.