Books about Christian mythology for non-Christians?

[Kate in Arabia]

I simply stated my reason that the topic might be moved to the general board. I think the number of non-curriculum responses suggests I might have been right -- but out-voted nonetheless

 

I can't remember any time that there has been a request that a specific thread be moved to the General Board when it wasn't the original poster making the request. Even when a thread was obviously not for here (like about crock pots or something). There are many, many threads that aren't strictly discussing curricula.

[Spy Car]

I like the DK style retellings by Selina Hastings. It covers most of the stories in the Bible, even the ones that are of people being foolish and having consequences, that often don't make it into the average Bible storybook (ex, David & Bathsheba, Baalam.) I think that these are lovely books that are well written and add a lot through the use of the sidebar photos and maps.

 

FWIW, many of the retellings of other myths or fairy tales don't spend a lot of time on disclaimers.

 

I wanted to add that I think this has been published in several formats. Hastings is the author listed for the DK Children's Illustrated Bible. I have two volumes published by Hermes House as The Children's Illustrated Bible The Old Testament and The Children's Illustrated Bible The New Testament. There also seems to be a collection of stories (David & Goliath and others, Jesus, Noah's Ark and others) that are probably taken from the CIB. I scanned the copy that I have and while it presents the background of the Bible (what Christians hold it to be, how many books, about when it was written, etc) it is done in a third person style similar to what I would expect in a book about the Illiad (Homer wrote the Illiad to describe the Trojan War, a long war between the city of Troy and the Greeks in which even the Gods took sides. Just as an example.) I think that the Hastings book is probably in many libraries, so maybe you could check it out before you use it or not.

 

Thank you for the informative post!

 

Bill

[Corraleno]

it's not the case that two-thirds of the earth does not believe in the historical truth of Adam through Jesus. <snip> I'll trying to list all the major groups you might be referring to, and whether they would be offended by my presenting Biblical history as fact, IMHO...

 

- Christians - 30+% of the world - would not be offended by reference to historical figures from Adam through Jesus as factual, although of course we've seen on this thread that there is some variation :)

- Muslims - 20% of the world - would definitely not be offended by reference to historical figures from Adam through Jesus as factual, and the differences of opinion would be based on dissenting facts rather than myth

- Hindus - almost 15% of the world - a prodigious group of beliefs, & folks I know seem happy to consider yet one more

- Buddhists - over 5% of the world - mostly philosophical and do not seem offended by other beliefs, let alone historical records

- Chinese ancient religions (Confucius, Tao, etc) - 5% or so of the world - again mostly philosophical and do not seem offended by beliefs or historical records

- Jews - less than 1% of the world - most of those I've known have leaned towards athiesm, or have been Christian Jews, but the Jewish faith would stand by the truth of historical figures from Adam through Jesus, with a few disagreements on details

- tribal religions - 5% of the world - as I understand what I've read and the few Native Americans I have known, most again have prodigious beliefs and might well be interested in historical figures from Adam through Jesus, though they could feel threatened if major changes seemed imminent or forced

- agnostic-types - 10% of the world - as I understand it, the number is high due to previous communism enforcement; voluntary agnostics I've known have often been open-minded about my religion, but some feel anger towards certain bad religious experiences and are maybe "selectively offended"?

- athiestic - 2% of the world - those I've known and those I've read about in history have been very offended by anything Christian but I haven't seen offense taken to other religious histories/beliefs, so it seems more of a prejudice than a true offense taken

 

You are confusing/equating two totally separate things here.

 

First of all, 2/3 of the world population is not Christian and does not hold Christian beliefs, and I believe that at least half of the Christian 1/3 does not believe the Bible to be entirely, literally true. In no way does that imply that people of other faiths (or no faith) would be "offended" that you, or any other Christian, do believe the Bible is literally true. I don't even understand where that came from, or why you would be arguing that point ~ why would people of other religions be offended by the fact that you believe in yours? :confused:

 

Which raises the point: since you stated that these other faiths, listed above, are generally tolerant and accepting of other belief systems, why are you so offended by the fact that someone, who does not share your religion, does not want to teach her children your religious beliefs as historical fact???

 

Jackie

[Julie in MN]

Trying to reply...

 

- Bill & Moira, My comprehension and my knowledge of wording is up to par.

 

- Moira, Yes, I do teach their major tenets and would actually read portions directly from their book if it were freely available in English :)

 

- Kate, My "vote" to move the post is just a suggestion to move a thread to a more appropriate location, which is done all the time and of course the original poster was free to ignore me.

 

- Jackie, I was trying to reply to posts such as this one (and the discussion that followed):

More than two-thirds of the Earth's population would consider the Christian Bible to be "mythological" ~ are the beliefs of those 4 billion people "offensive" to Christians?

My point is that since Christians, Jews, and Muslims all believe Adam through Jesus to be true, historical persons, the two-thirds number isn't adding up for me from the get-go, and then I tried to add in the fact that most other religions wouldn't necessarily classify Christian historical figures as myth/untrue, so you might end up with almost zero there, IMO. You of course are free to disagree 100%.

 

 

 

So what it comes down to is that apparently everyone else thinks a "Muslim myth" post sounds just fine? And moreover, everyone here would spend 11 pages trying to change the mind of a Muslim who stated that she felt a thread title had inappropriate wording? Folks would really feel compelled to insult the person's ethics over that? <sheesh>

 

I personally would not even think of beginning a thread called "Books about Muslim mythology." Not ever. Not anywhere. In my mind, it would have too great a chance of coming off as offensive. I would fully expect at least some folks to object. That just seems so obvious to me, but I must think differently than most folks.

 

And I will add that if I did choose a particular wording innocently and a Muslim (or Norse worshiper etc) actually chimed in to say that I had offended him deeply by the wording I chose, I just don't believe there is any way I would argue with them about how illogical, un-Muslim, or hateful they were to respond that way!

 

 

I'm getting more depressed now that I really poured my heart out on that long post & wasted so much time getting nowhere. I'd better back out while I'm behind :tongue_smilie:

 

Julie

Edited February 4, 2010 by Julie in MN

[Satori]

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks to those of you who had recommendations! After careful consideration, I purchased 4 books on Amazon (some I had to get used). The books by Demi look awesome too and are in my cart for later.

[Kate in Arabia]

My point is that since Christians, Jews, and Muslims all believe Adam through Jesus to be true, historical persons, the two-thirds number isn't adding up for me from the get-go,

Believing that characters that are mentioned in the Bible were actual people does not equal believing that the stories in the Bible are historically accurate. And, I'm not sure what the percentage is of Jews who believe that Jesus was a historical person.

 

Edited to add:

 

To clarify, I believe the earlier poster said that an estimated 2/3 of the population believe the Christian Bible is mythological, and your response was that a majority of the population believes that characters in the Bible were actual people. I don't think the two of you are talking about the same thing.

 

So what it comes down to is that apparently everyone else thinks a "Muslim myth" post sounds just fine?

As a Muslim, if someone started a thread just like this one, where they were asking for resources to learn about Muslim mythology, in exactly the way it was done in the original post here, I would think that was fine and would understand that to mean the poster was looking for our traditional religious stories that shape our beliefs and worldview, some of which are found in the Qur'an and some of which are from the Ahadith, written for a non-Muslim audience. There are several titles. There is no "Child's Qur'an", but even if there was I would not recommend something like that to such a poster, as it is not what I would interpret the poster to be asking for.

 

I don't know that *everyone* thinks this way, this is just my opinion. :)

Edited February 4, 2010 by Kate in Arabia
Clarification

[....]

I can't sift through all this *$%, but I do have a recommendation...

 

I think the easiest thing to do would be to buy an ICB (International Children's Bible - it's written at a 3rd grade reading level-like 12 bucks online) and just reading through Matthew. Matthew is FULL of famous bible stories - like Jesus walking on the water, John the Baptist, the census of King Herod, the Sermon on the Mount, the crucifixion, etc. It's not preachy or opinionated (if that worries you), it's just the ancient text written as a recording of events.

 

The back of the ICB has an index of all the famous stories like the Ten Commandments, etc. There are also little summaries at the top of each page to let you know what that page is talking about...so you can easily flip through to find a story.

 

That way, you're reading the actual text from the book itself - you don't have to worry about something having an agenda.

 

I hope my post didn't offend anyone, I'm just trying to help. :grouphug:

[Kate in Arabia]

 

The back of the ICB has an index of all the famous stories like the Ten Commandments, etc.

What would be nice is if someone took that index then made a book (or series of books) with just those stories in it, kwim?

[Haiku]

- Christians - 30+% of the world - would not be offended by reference to historical figures from Adam through Jesus as factual, although of course we've seen on this thread that there is some variation :)

- Muslims - 20% of the world - would definitely not be offended by reference to historical figures from Adam through Jesus as factual, and the differences of opinion would be based on dissenting facts rather than myth

- Hindus - almost 15% of the world - a prodigious group of beliefs, & folks I know seem happy to consider yet one more

- Buddhists - over 5% of the world - mostly philosophical and do not seem offended by other beliefs, let alone historical records

- Chinese ancient religions (Confucius, Tao, etc) - 5% or so of the world - again mostly philosophical and do not seem offended by beliefs or historical records

- Jews - less than 1% of the world - most of those I've known have leaned towards athiesm, or have been Christian Jews, but the Jewish faith would stand by the truth of historical figures from Adam through Jesus, with a few disagreements on details

- tribal religions - 5% of the world - as I understand what I've read and the few Native Americans I have known, most again have prodigious beliefs and might well be interested in historical figures from Adam through Jesus, though they could feel threatened if major changes seemed imminent or forced

- agnostic-types - 10% of the world - as I understand it, the number is high due to previous communism enforcement; voluntary agnostics I've known have often been open-minded about my religion, but some feel anger towards certain bad religious experiences and are maybe "selectively offended"?

- athiestic - 2% of the world - those I've known and those I've read about in history have been very offended by anything Christian but I haven't seen offense taken to other religious histories/beliefs, so it seems more of a prejudice than a true offense taken

 

 

First, I think you are taking some huge leaps in assuming how people of other religions feel about Christianity.

 

Second, as a member of a minority religion, I could honestly care less what other people hold as their religious beliefs. I do care, however, about how people of dominant religions seems to feel free to act like whatever they believe is right and good and whatever other people believe is wrong and bad. And that happens all. the. time. Pat Robertson, anyone? He's not an anomaly. Other people's religions are routinely denigrated in this country, and most people seem to accept that, but if someone dares to suggest that Christianity is not the be-all, end-all, Christians cry foul. I don't care what others believe religiously, but I do care when those people demand that their beliefs be accorded more respect than other people's and that everyone else live as though the beliefs those people hold true are true for everyone.

 

If you don't see that happening, I probably can't make you see it. But just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

 

Tara

[WishboneDawn]

 

My point is that since Christians, Jews, and Muslims all believe Adam through Jesus to be true, historical persons, the two-thirds number isn't adding up for me from the get-go, and then I tried to add in the fact that most other religions wouldn't necessarily classify Christian historical figures as myth/untrue, so you might end up with almost zero there, IMO. You of course are free to disagree 100%.

 

I want to say that as a Christian I get really, really tired of assertions like this. No, all Christians do NOT believe Adams was a real person. Not all are even sure Jesus was real, let alone divine (is no one familiar with John Spong?). I am not sure about Islam but I know Islamic creationist (related to such a literal, historical reading) are a small minority and I am quite sure many if not most Jews have a much better sense of the mythology in the OT and embrace it.

 

Just because we all hold the same book sacred does not mean we all interpret it the same way. That should be rather apparent from a brief glimpse at Abrahamic religions. We're not exactly the most uniform group, are we? You may belong to a denomination that demands a certain reading of the Bible but it's one denomination in a great big sea of denominations and religions.

 

Frankly, I think the only thing that can be said about most Christians is that we're woefully uneducated about the diversity in Christianity and about Judaism and Islam.

 

I also welcome people talking about the Bible as myth (LOTS of Christians do too you have to realize). I find those people generally aren't looking to put the Bible down but are instead looking for the great value that myths hold. That and, since I think myth makes up a great deal of the Bible, I get to have great conversations with them.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

But whether Mentos interacts with Diet Coke (or not) has nothing to do with explaining the creation of the world, how mankind, the animals, and the natural world came to be, or how any of this is tried into a Creator-God.

 

These latter questions are the providence of Myth. Chemical reactions are not.

 

That a story is widely believed (or not) is entirely irrelevant to the story being a "myth" if the story in question doesn't speak to the origins of humankind and our relationships to the divine.

 

Bill

 

Agreed. Just giving an example of popular media's usage of "Myth" that does not equal "Untrue" to counter an assertion of the opposite in an earlier post

[Saille]

Julie,

 

Thank you for checking in on this thread.

 

First, I'd like to say that it's pretty disingenuous to act like you made a pleasantly worded request.

 

I personally vote for moving this to the general board.

 

I know you're looking for "books" technically. But surely you're aware that using the term "mythology" is insulting my intelligence and insinuating that I have no historical, scientific, or physical evidence for my beliefs.

 

Sorry, but I have strong opinions when you get down to the core of my being.

 

Julie, I feel really strongly that you are asking for a level of consideration that is unreasonable. It is not anyone's responsibility to use languange that indicates they agree with your religious beliefs just so you won't have to confront the fact that some folks don't. I found your tone extremely snarky.

 

I think the number of non-curriculum responses suggests I might have been right -- but out-voted nonetheless :)

 

It strikes me rather forcibly that your comment was the reason for the non-curriculum responses.

 

To those who feel I should not have opened the post or I should not have been thin-skinned about the post, etc., here is what happened. I read the title of the OP. I felt the post belonged on the general board. I had to open the post in order to say that. I felt I should state my reason.

 

You did more than state your reason. You angrily personalized the issue. You accused the OP of deliberately insulting the core of your being. I respectfully suggest that folks who post something in anger should probably do it when they're not going to be too busy to follow up.

 

If you truly wanted knowledge of the Christian religion, surely there are thousands of Bibles available to you, all practically identical so reviews/previews would hardly be needed, but are available freely on Amazon. Instead, I still see the OP as looking for something that plucks out the particular pieces of the Bible that might be used for the express purpose of convincing your child that the Bible is "mythology." That still feels like something I would raise my hand and request moved to the general board.

 

First of all, I have seen discussion right here on this here board as to the differences between versions of the Bible.

 

Second, there's a distinct implication in that second bolded section that non-Christians who teach Christian bible stories out of context (like my public high school's Lit text did, for example) that we are turning our children from the truth. Your truth. This is the undercurrent I'm referring to. That wording makes no sense WRT a non-Christian household. If, OTOH, a neighbor was trying to influence your Christian kids without your approval, then that wording might apply.

 

the "Christian majority oppression" part of the discussion seems more justification of heated debate than an actual thing folks are suffering from.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am saying that you are doing this, right now, on this thread. You are expecting a level of consideration on this board that no one from any other religous group is asking for. This is not theoretical. I've made it clear over time that I am a pantheist. I am far from being the only pan- or polytheist on this board, let alone one of the folks from the larger religious groups you mention. I have a problem with the implication that you are entitled to more consideration WRT your religious views than I am.

 

Here are a couple of threads on this board that have discussed world religions in the context of mythology. Please note that both reference major world religions without anyone getting bent out of shape:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32227

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74238

[WishboneDawn]

My bias as a Christan is clear but honestly, for those looking to read Christian mythology I'd just read a good, clear version of the Bible. Well, not all of it of course. :D

 

I reccomend the Bible because honestly, you just get the stories. Pick up a children's book of Bible stories and you'll find lots of extras and commentary that I would assume is not useful to someone who's not a Christian.

 

A good one for read-alouds to children would be the Good News Bible. The language is clear and easy. Genesis, Exodus, some of the stories about Samuel and David. I'd also read the a couple of the gospels. Mark is the bare bones Gentile version without a birth narrative or resurection (what follows the empty tomb was a later addition). Matthew is the Christian Jewish account. Luke is the humanitarian. John is the gnostic and probably one the least accessible for kids.

 

I'd also read Songs of Songs and Ruth just for myself. :)

[skueppers]

(a) If you truly wanted knowledge of the Christian religion, surely there are thousands of Bibles available to you, all practically identical so reviews/previews would hardly be needed, but are available freely on Amazon. Instead, I still see the OP as looking for something that plucks out the particular pieces of the Bible that might be used for the express purpose of convincing your child that the Bible is "mythology." That still feels like something I would raise my hand and request moved to the general board.

 

 

Julie, what this illustrates most clearly is that these issues are always seen in relation to one's own frame of reference. It would never even have occurred to me that it was possible for someone to have interpreted the original poster's request in this manner.

 

I really appreciate you being so specific, because such an interpretation is so far outside my own frame of reference, I was unable even to conceive of it. The way I read the original post, I imagined that she wanted her children to know the most important stories from Christianity so they would recognize them when they are referred to in art and literature. It wouldn't have occurred to me that anyone would want to teach their children Christian stories for the specific purpose of illustrating that they are silly or wrong.

 

Thanks, I really learned something about your world view today.

 

Incidentally, I have not found all children's Bibles to be essentially equivalent. I agree with the recommendation of the DK Children's Illustrated Bible for this purpose.

[WishboneDawn]

(a) If you truly wanted knowledge of the Christian religion, surely there are thousands of Bibles available to you, all practically identical

 

I have three Bibles and no aversion to picking up more precisely because they are not practically identical. Heck, some Bibles have huge chunks that others others don't (Catholic or Protestant with Appocrypha as compared to other Protestant Bibles for instance).

[*Jessica*]

I like the DK style retellings by Selina Hastings. It covers most of the stories in the Bible, even the ones that are of people being foolish and having consequences, that often don't make it into the average Bible storybook (ex, David & Bathsheba, Baalam.) I think that these are lovely books that are well written and add a lot through the use of the sidebar photos and maps.

 

FWIW, many of the retellings of other myths or fairy tales don't spend a lot of time on disclaimers.

 

I wanted to add that I think this has been published in several formats. Hastings is the author listed for the DK Children's Illustrated Bible. I have two volumes published by Hermes House as The Children's Illustrated Bible The Old Testament and The Children's Illustrated Bible The New Testament. There also seems to be a collection of stories (David & Goliath and others, Jesus, Noah's Ark and others) that are probably taken from the CIB. I scanned the copy that I have and while it presents the background of the Bible (what Christians hold it to be, how many books, about when it was written, etc) it is done in a third person style similar to what I would expect in a book about the Illiad (Homer wrote the Illiad to describe the Trojan War, a long war between the city of Troy and the Greeks in which even the Gods took sides. Just as an example.) I think that the Hastings book is probably in many libraries, so maybe you could check it out before you use it or not.

This is the book we have and would recommend. It does a much better job than others I have read at presenting the information as stories instead of fact.

[Saille]

So, here's a question. Is there a version that is better specifically from a classical homeschooler's perspective? By which I mean:

 

1. The beauty of the wording is maintained

2. It is a close® approximation of versions written in classical languages

[lionfamily1999]

So, here's a question. Is there a version that is better specifically from a classical homeschooler's perspective? By which I mean:

 

1. The beauty of the wording is maintained

2. It is a close® approximation of versions written in classical languages

I'd go with the King James' Version. The language is not so daunting for one that's read a little of Shakespeare or Beowolf, iykwIm. Or, you could get an interlinear Bible (Greek to English NT for instance). Ds has one (for his Greek studies) and it's very interesting to see the differences between the original Greek wording versus the KJ version.

[Spy Car]

Agreed. Just giving an example of popular media's usage of "Myth" that does not equal "Untrue" to counter an assertion of the opposite in an earlier post

 

I know. But I'm taking "no prisoners" :D

 

Bill (who's in a Lawrence of Arabia mood :tongue_smilie:)

[Spy Car]

So, here's a question. Is there a version that is better specifically from a classical homeschooler's perspective? By which I mean:

 

1. The beauty of the wording is maintained

2. It is a close® approximation of versions written in classical languages

 

Do you mean for a Children's Bible, or a standard Bible?

 

Bill

[nmoira]

Bolding mine.

 

Second, there's a distinct implication in that second bolded section that non-Christians who teach Christian bible stories out of context (like my public high school's Lit text did, for example) that we are turning our children from the truth. Your truth. This is the undercurrent I'm referring to. That wording makes no sense WRT a non-Christian household. If, OTOH, a neighbor was trying to influence your Christian kids without your approval, then that wording might apply.

Thanks. You've made the point more eloquently than I.

[KarenNC]

My bias as a Christan is clear but honestly, for those looking to read Christian mythology I'd just read a good, clear version of the Bible. Well, not all of it of course. :D

 

I reccomend the Bible because honestly, you just get the stories. Pick up a children's book of Bible stories and you'll find lots of extras and commentary that I would assume is not useful to someone who's not a Christian.

 

A good one for read-alouds to children would be the Good News Bible. The language is clear and easy. Genesis, Exodus, some of the stories about Samuel and David. I'd also read the a couple of the gospels. Mark is the bare bones Gentile version without a birth narrative or resurection (what follows the empty tomb was a later addition). Matthew is the Christian Jewish account. Luke is the humanitarian. John is the gnostic and probably one the least accessible for kids.

 

I'd also read Songs of Songs and Ruth just for myself. :)

 

With using just a Bible, there is the issue of finding those major stories within the text and only those major stories that are usually considered appropriate for sharing with children. That's where a children's Bible or book of stories is more helpful to someone who is probably unfamiliar with where the stories are found in the text.

 

As I said before, I also wouldn't just "read Genesis" to a child, for example, as there is a lot of "adult" content there. There are some well-known stories there, but that's not what a person unfamiliar with the Christian Bible is going to understand when you say "read Genesis." I don't think most folks, including Christians, want to explain to their 6 year olds why Lot offered his daughters to strangers for their sexual use or why those same daughters later get Lot drunk (twice) and have intercourse with him as a plan to get pregnant (and the Good News version doesn't use euphemisms for it http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19&version=GNT). I'm not even sure they want to read " 1 Then Adam had intercourse with his wife, and she became pregnant. She bore a son and said, By the Lord's help I have gotten a son. So she named him Cain." (Good News Bible, Genesis 4:1)

Edited February 4, 2010 by KarenNC

[Saille]

Do you mean for a Children's Bible, or a standard Bible?

 

Bill

 

Standard, as a reference to have around the house. Interlinear could be really cool; that's a great idea. I also think I have a KJV somewhere.

 

I'm quite likely to go with Timeless Themes the next year we're doing Ancients. But, since it's also Logic Stage for my oldest, he'll be doing some readings directly from the Bible.

[KarenNC]

So, here's a question. Is there a version that is better specifically from a classical homeschooler's perspective? By which I mean:

 

1. The beauty of the wording is maintained

2. It is a close® approximation of versions written in classical languages

 

It really depends on the age of the child. http://www.biblegateway.com will let you look at how various translations (and at least some of the paraphrases, I think) accepted by various Protestant Christians compare. The Roman Catholic versions of the Bible are going to include a lot of material that was removed by the Protestants (sometimes this included in non-Roman Catholic ones as a separate section called the Apocrypha). This site looks like it has interesting information on the various developments of the Christian Bible http://www.bible-researcher.com/versions.html

 

If you have an older student, Dr. Amy-Jill Levine, Professor of New Testament Studies at Vanderbilt Divinity School and a Conservative Jew, has a great lecture on some of the differences in the ways that Jews and Christians approach the same Scripture http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=5577

[iwjeanie]

I am a deist and have been looking for books to educate my kids on different religions. I have found a couple but have not received them yet - Sacred Myths: Stories of World Religions by Marilyn McFarlane and One World, Many Religions: The Ways We Worship by Mary Pope Osborne.

[Spy Car]

Standard, as a reference to have around the house. Interlinear could be really cool; that's a great idea. I also think I have a KJV somewhere.

 

I'm quite likely to go with Timeless Themes the next year we're doing Ancients. But, since it's also Logic Stage for my oldest, he'll be doing some readings directly from the Bible.

 

I'll return with a few suggestions a little later, as I must fly.

 

Bill

[Mom-ninja.]

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks to those of you who had recommendations! After careful consideration, I purchased 4 books on Amazon (some I had to get used). The books by Demi look awesome too and are in my cart for later.

 

My Amazon wishlist grows and grows.

 

 

 

I think the easiest thing to do would be to buy an ICB (International Children's Bible - it's written at a 3rd grade reading level-like 12 bucks online) and just reading through Matthew. Matthew is FULL of famous bible stories - like Jesus walking on the water, John the Baptist, the census of King Herod, the Sermon on the Mount, the crucifixion, etc. It's not preachy or opinionated (if that worries you), it's just the ancient text written as a recording of events.

 

The back of the ICB has an index of all the famous stories like the Ten Commandments, etc. There are also little summaries at the top of each page to let you know what that page is talking about...so you can easily flip through to find a story.

 

That way, you're reading the actual text from the book itself - you don't have to worry about something having an agenda.

 

 

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[lionfamily1999]

Standard, as a reference to have around the house. Interlinear could be really cool; that's a great idea. I also think I have a KJV somewhere.

 

I'm quite likely to go with Timeless Themes the next year we're doing Ancients. But, since it's also Logic Stage for my oldest, he'll be doing some readings directly from the Bible.

Our Interlinear is very well used. Ds, dh (agnostic), dd and I all love it.

[WishboneDawn]

With using just a Bible, there is the issue of finding those major stories within the text and only those major stories that are usually considered appropriate for sharing with children. That's where a children's Bible or book of stories is more helpful to someone who is probably unfamiliar with where the stories are found in the text.

 

As I said before, I also wouldn't just "read Genesis" to a child, for example, as there is a lot of "adult" content there. There are some well-known stories there, but that's not what a person unfamiliar with the Christian Bible is going to understand when you say "read Genesis." I don't think most folks, including Christians, want to explain to their 6 year olds why Lot offered his daughters to strangers for their sexual use or why those same daughters later get Lot drunk (twice) and have intercourse with him as a plan to get pregnant (and the Good News version doesn't use euphemisms for it http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19&version=GNT). I'm not even sure they want to read " 1 Then Adam had intercourse with his wife, and she became pregnant. She bore a son and said, By the Lord's help I have gotten a son. So she named him Cain." (Good News Bible, Genesis 4:1)

 

Oh shoot. You're right! It's not a big problem if you're familiar with it as you said but if you're not...And there are some very brutal gory bits.

[Ravin]

I would not say Hindu or Moslem or Jewish or Buddhist mythology on this board, because I believe that the most common usage of the word mythology would lead to my saying that being received as an aspersion on that religion, and because that religion is active today. It's different with Norse mythology as I am not aware of anyone who accepts it as their faith at this time. If I found out differently, I would change that usage as well.

 

Hi! Thought I'd expand your awareness! I'd post some links about Heathenry in general and Asatru in particular, but this thread is sidetracked enough, lol!

 

Bill's definition is the one most Heathens I know use, though. "Norse Mythology" isn't an offensive term, though often Heathens among themselves will refer to those stories and their sources as "lore" rather than "myth".

 

I think it's because the beliefs questioned in the old thread are stipulated by everyone to be untrue. But those in this one are not. That's what I meant when I talked about Norse myths earlier. And I also said, earlier in this thread, that if there were a bunch of people posting here who actually believed Norse stories, I would not refer to them in the same manner.

 

Well, I'm not a bunch... :D

 

Anyway, I don't suppose if I started a spinoff thread asking for JUST rec's without sidetracking, people could repost them there?

[Satori]

I'd love a spinoff thread with just recommendations! Can we include other religions as well? I already bought my Christian stories.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Satori

[nmoira]

I'd love a spinoff thread with just recommendations! Can we include other religions as well? I already bought my Christian stories.

Start one, and I'm there. :)

[Karenciavo]

I think any number of Bible story books that don't include commentary could be used for your purposes. Most bookstores with a children's department will carry a small selection of these, and you can look for one with pictures and a reading level that would appeal to your kids. Dorling Kindersley publishes several that would work fine for you.

 

It really comes down to your presentation, whether these are "the mythology of another Religion" or "our sacred stories". As long as you just go for a basic retelling of the most interesting stories of the Bible, I think you'll be fine. Just avoid a Bible story book that includes additional devotions or commentary...

 

I agree, it's common sense advice but not nearly as fun as posting to get a rise.

[MelanieM]

I agree, it's common sense advice but not nearly as fun as posting to get a rise.

 

Interesting. So when someone posts asking for favourite versions of Homer or Shakespeare for kids, do we tell them to just go to the bookstore or library and sort through them all and pick one? It's common sense, after all.

 

Angela, yes please, start another thread asking for reading recommendations for world religions. I'll be there too!

 

I really appreciate everyone that made relevant suggestions here. I have lots to sample on my library list now, and a couple I'll just go ahead and buy because the brief online previews look so great!

[Paula in PA]

I agree, it's common sense advice but not nearly as fun as posting to get a rise.

 

Perhaps to you it's common sense, but not all of us have easy access to a book store. Ours recently closed. And not all libraries are that great.

 

As for the second part of your post, that was completely uncalled for. The OP has already addressed this. I usually look forward to your posts. This really disappointed me.

[WishboneDawn]

I agree, it's common sense advice but not nearly as fun as posting to get a rise.

 

Good grief. There are posts like this all the time asking for advice and reccomendations for books on this-or-that from a Christian perspective or a secular perspective or some other perspective. If this thread is somehow different or offensive to some then I'd suggest they have their own issues they need to sort out.

[MelanieM]

I want to share something with the people who have expressed aversion to the term Christian Mythology in a not-so-kind way. (i.e. being rude or snarky, questioning my intentions, or implying all sorts of silly things about my original post that I in no way personally believe to be true, never mind actually said.) When I read these posts, it in no way leads me to any feelings of sympathy for where you're coming from. In fact, it makes me want to behave like my four year old and start dancing around the room with my fingers wiggling by my ears screaming "mythology, mythology!" In fact, I might just do that with the kids later for some comic relief. (Kidding. Maybe.)

 

On the other hand, I have appreciated the people who have attempted to kindly discuss why they do not like hearing the term mythology applied to Christian stories. And while I may come to the end of the conversation without changing my mind on the subject (I'd rather see a reclaiming of the word for all rather than a tossing of the word for some), I end up there with a sense of personal respect for the person and their views.

 

Now, I shouldn't have to actually say this to anyone, as I'm pretty sure it's common sense, and the idea is something that most of us have spent years trying to explain to our children! However, it seems that some people are in need of a reminder. You really do catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

 

Is it acceptable for a 36 year old to close a post with "nanny nanny boo boo"? Nah. Maybe not.

 

(P.S. If your reasoning for being snarky is not to help me see your point, but rather just for the experience of snark, then that's ok too. I can be the recipient of snark if it somehow makes you feel better. And if you're that person, I'll just send you a hug, because you probably need one.)

[lionfamily1999]

I don't think it counts as taking the high road when you spit from the top...

 

;)

[MelanieM]

Julie, I'm afraid you may have to be a little more direct with me as I'm not sure if I'm meant to infer that I'm on the high road, never was on the high road, or left the high road with my last post. I assume it's one of the latter options, but you know, I hate to assume things about others' intentions. ;)

Edited February 4, 2010 by MelanieM

[nmoira]

I don't think it counts as taking the high road when you spit from the top...

 

;)

Ditto for casting aspersions on motives of others. I think we've pretty much made level ground here.

[stripe]

I think there is an interesting point, though, which is a book about, say, Christmas or Easter tends to be just about the celebration aspect, whereas a book about, say, Diwali or Eid or some non-Christian holiday has an obligatory, long explanation of what the holiday is. Which suggests that it is some not-understood phenomena. Which it may be. But something that suggests the perspective, and even children of that religion often have to read through. There are a few books about Christianity for kids that suggest that the general reader isn't already familiar with everything. But this is a glaring difference. The playing field isn't, as it were, level and the books reflect that.

 

I am under the impression that most religious education teachers and parents pull out certain stories from their religious tradition to impart various lessons to their children, whatever their religion. I don't think that most Christian parents or Sunday school teachers (at least not in the last 100 years) just dive right into the Bible without a cultural/religious context, for example, David and Goliath, Jonah and the Whale, Moses and the Flood, the birth of Jesus, and so on. I took the OP's post to be a request for a compendium of these core stories, rather than a plea for help in plowing through Leviticus and the "begat" sections.

[Karenciavo]

Yes, I think someone who has belonged to this board since 8/2008 would know posting a question in such a way is offensive to many on this board. :shrug:

[MelanieM]

I am under the impression that most religious education teachers and parents pull out certain stories from their religious tradition to impart various lessons to their children, whatever their religion. I don't think that most Christian parents or Sunday school teachers (at least not in the last 100 years) just dive right into the Bible without a cultural/religious context, for example, David and Goliath, Jonah and the Whale, Moses and the Flood, the birth of Jesus, and so on. I took the OP's post to be a request for a compendium of these core stories, rather than a plea for help in plowing through Leviticus and the "begat" sections.

 

Yes, that. I know I can just pick up a Bible and read through it. But honestly, how would I know where to begin?? And why would I want to pre-read dozens of books to find one that is a fit for what I'm looking for when I could just ask people who have been there, done that for their recommendations? Having access to others who have walked a similar path before me is pretty much why I come here!

 

Yes, I think someone who has belonged to this board since 8/2008 would know posting a question in such a way is offensive to many on this board. :shrug:

 

You know, if I had thought about it in any great detail before posting, it would have occured to me that this could happen, yes. I can't say I'm shocked. However, I'm a little confused, and disappointed, that other people are defending what I would assume is a knee-jerk emotional reaction to a phrase, after it's been made quite clear that the phrase is not a slight in any way. Furthermore, your implication that I started the thread for the purpose of pissing people off is rather insulting. Perhaps you would think that someone who has belonged to the board since 8/2008 wouldn't be trolling for a fight. :shrug:

[Karenciavo]

Ye

You know, if I had thought about it in any great detail before posting, it would have occured to me that this could happen, yes. I can't say I'm shocked. However, I'm a little confused, and disappointed, that other people are defending what I would assume is a knee-jerk emotional reaction to a phrase, after it's been made quite clear that the phrase is not a slight in any way. Furthermore, your implication that I started the thread for the purpose of pissing people off is rather insulting. Perhaps you would think that someone who has belonged to the board since 8/2008 wouldn't be trolling for a fight. :shrug:

 

People pick fights all the time, I don't consider it trolling per se. Let's take the fight I picked in this thread, yes I picked a fight I realize that. I'm not even offended that you called it Christian mythology, 1. the term itself is not offensive 2. you're not a believer why would it be anything else to you. I picked this fight because I get weary reading this forum sometimes which is why I tend to stay away. Yes it was immature of me, I'm a sinner saved by grace - thank you Lord. So now that you know that it is offensive to some will you think twice next time? Just wondering.

[Stacy in NJ]

really have a dog in this fight. But, to the OP, you might want to consider how your original post could have been worded so as to not offend a great many of the other member of this board. Folks in fact you may want to tap for information on other homeschool related topics. Unless, of course, you don't accept advice in any form from Christians.

 

Although you have the right to your wording, your phraseology was less than well mannered. Consider for a moment how your question may have been answered if you had posted a similar request regarding Judaism or Islam on a board visited predominately by Jews or Muslims.

 

Good luck.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Stacy in NJ
sp

[nmoira]

 

Yes, I think someone who has belonged to this board since 8/2008 would know posting a question in such a way is offensive to many on this board. :shrug:

I dunno that I'd make that assumption. Someone who mainly frequents the curriculum board might be under the impression that there is little friction or discord here. :tongue_smilie:

[MelanieM]

People pick fights all the time, I don't consider it trolling per se. Let's take the fight I picked in this thread, yes I picked a fight I realize that. I'm not even offended that you called it Christian mythology, 1. the term itself is not offensive 2. you're not a believer why would it be anything else to you. I picked this fight because I get weary reading this forum sometimes which is why I tend to stay away. Yes it was immature of me, I'm a sinner saved by grace - thank you Lord. So now that you know that it is offensive to some will you think twice next time? Just wondering.

 

Karen, you make me smile. I appreciate your honesty, and I take no issue with you looking for a fight, just because. It must be that "fight with me!" vibe that caused me to reply to you. I guess I must have finally been looking for a fight as well. ;)

 

As to your question... You know, I'm not sure. On the one hand, I certainly don't go out of my way to cause offense. On the other hand, it appears that it is offensive for reasons that are based on misinformation and/or a double-standard. It's not what I said that is offensive, but rather people are offended by the thoughts they are choosing to think about what I said. I don't often find I'm doing anyone any favours by trying to "correct" my behaviour in the face of such things.

 

I would actually hope that this conversation has helped to enlighten some people about their own perspectives on others' beliefs. Because really, I don't think I'm the one that has been insulting to anyone's faith. In fact, I maintain that all beliefs are equally relevant and sacred, and I wouldn't want to be dismissive of any of them. I use the term mythology with *love*. :)

 

I really, really wish people could just get behind the scholarly use of the word mythology and be done with it. The misuse of that fine word is starting to become a big pet peeve of mine.

[MelanieM]

I dunno that I'd make that assumption. Someone who mainly frequents the curriculum board might be under the impression that there is little friction or discord here. :tongue_smilie:

 

Or someone that sees the term mythology used for dozens of other religions might assume that people actually know what the word means, and therefore would not get all bent out of shape over it. You could do a search here (and now I have) and find lots, and lots, and lots of reference to religious stories as mythology. In fact, there are even references to Christian myths here on these boards, with no one being jumped on for it.

[WishboneDawn]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with the thread title. Using the term "mythology" let Melanie established pretty effectively what POV she was coming from so that readers could decide whether they had useful advice to offer. It makes it clear she is not looking for material with a more literalist or historical slant.

 

I'd also like to point out that really, considering the oodles and oodles of Christians here who most definitely have a literal belief in the Bible, only a relative few have bothered saying anything in this thread. It seems that the vast majority likely gave the title a glance, reasonably decided it wasn't something they were interested in or could offer help on and then simply moved on. The vast majority weren't offended or didn't think any offence was worth mentioning. I think that's worth remembering for both sides in this.

 

As a Christian, I appreciate the use of the term mythology in relation to the Bible and wish there was more of it here simply so I could have a place to talk about it.

[PollyOR]

I went back and reread the original post. I still don't see how it is offensive. :confused1: In fact, I think her wording is respectful.

 

Maybe we should take Karin's advice:

"One of the things that has helped me is that if I get offended by a post, I try to simply walk away and not answer if/when I'm angry. It's the same principle I try to apply in my marriage, too, and it was a very hard lesson for me to learn indeed. Learning to agree to disagree is important, and with homeschooling very important. People will love the math program you abhor. People will hold onto a belief you vehemently disagree with. People will totally not understand the way you homeschool and totally disagree with it. No one is going to like everyone on the forum. That's okay. No one is liked by everyone. Some people will always give advice that contradicts your advice; that's one of the beautiful things about this forum, because your advice just isn't going to work for everyone. Some people are going to complain about someone's dc and you might have dc just like that. Or you might be the one complaining about some dc and offending someone with dc just like that. We need to get over it. Sure, that's not realistic, but it's a goal, isn't it? One isn't truly tolerant if one is offended by someone who isn't tolerant, kwim? I'm not tolerant of everything and don't pretend to be, but I try to follow the board rules to be polite, and try to remember that I can sometimes learn from those I vehemently disagree with on other issues."