LOST - So what did you think? (Caution may contain spoilers.)

[KidsHappen]

These were my two (very conflicting) thoughts. I think we saw something near the end last night. Either the point is that your destiny is your destiny, and they end up on that island (the ones Jacob touched) no matter what they do, or it is a "happy ending" and we are seeing how it will end if the island had been destroyed.

 

Or Jack will wake up and it will have been a dream. ;)

 

The producers have specifically said that this is not anyone's dream nor are they all dead and in pergatory.

[angela in ohio]

The producers have specifically said that this is not anyone's dream nor are they all dead and in pergatory.

 

I know. That's why I added the winking face. :001_smile:

[KidsHappen]

A couple of observations. The orginal place did crashed in 2004. We know this because Cindy Stewardess said that the suvivors were on the first plane crash with her (Oceanic 815) not the second Ajira 316. So it seems that everything on island proceeded as we saw it. They all have their memories.

 

When Jacob was talking to the man-in-black he said there is only ONE ending, everything else is just progress. I would assume that since we have not seen the ending everything is currently progressing.

 

Has anyone else considered the possibility that Jacob is not the good guy? It is cliche to assume that just because he is in white and the other in black that that is how we tell if they are good or bad. What made me think of this is when John said, "I am disappointed in all of you." If he was in fact a bad person, why would he be disappointed in them?

 

He just wants to go home. Where is this and why don't they let him?

 

Ben & Charles had rules about harming each other that same as Jacob and the man in black but Ben seems clueless as if you doesn't know the relation between the two sets of circumstances.

 

I am sure I will think of more.

[KidsHappen]

Oj, I just had another interesting thought. We have been wondering how things could have changed before the flight. I think it is because they set off the bomb in 1977 and if the fractered into two realities it would have happened then. SO theoretically everything that happened from 1977 until the crash in 2004 could have been different.

 

Meanwhile, on island the only thing that appears to be different is that they returned to their orginal time. Apparently after Juilet blew up the site, they rebuilt and everything else continued as we have seen it. SO they were rescused, they did go home and they did come back and are all where they are supposed to be in both time and space.

 

So it seems to me the only real anomoly (relatively, we are talking about LOST here) is the AR of their lives off island.

[elegantlion]

All this talk of the men-in-black have my brain running to this final scenario. Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones show up, flash some pen thingamagig, thats why they're on the plane without the memories of the island. So it's all really just a MIB sequel. :lol::lol:...I'm so glad school is over for the day.

[Mrs Mungo]

Has anyone else considered the possibility that Jacob is not the good guy? It is cliche to assume that just because he is in white and the other in black that that is how we tell if they are good or bad. What made me think of this is when John said, "I am disappointed in all of you." If he was in fact a bad person, why would he be disappointed in them?

 

This is partly where I was going when I was talking about the Egyptian gods. I think maybe we're supposed to associate (at least) these two with Egyptian gods. I think that's how we'll work out who is "good" and who is "bad" (for lack of better terms).

[Carrie12345]

Oj, I just had another interesting thought. We have been wondering how things could have changed before the flight. I think it is because they set off the bomb in 1977 and if the fractered into two realities it would have happened then. SO theoretically everything that happened from 1977 until the crash in 2004 could have been different.

 

Meanwhile, on island the only thing that appears to be different is that they returned to their orginal time. Apparently after Juilet blew up the site, they rebuilt and everything else continued as we have seen it. SO they were rescused, they did go home and they did come back and are all where they are supposed to be in both time and space.

 

So it seems to me the only real anomoly (relatively, we are talking about LOST here) is the AR of their lives off island.

 

I don't believe "it worked" (the bomb going off) for the on-island story. If it had, there would have been no need to push the button to hold in the energy at the Swan hatch, which must have still happened in order to have the Swan hatch explode (implode) just as they've re-found it.

 

With Juliet drifting in and out of wherever, her reference to the bomb working was about the off-island story. She wanted the crash never to happen so that Sawyer would never be on the island. Having him there definitely would not count as "it worked" in her (proper state of consciousness) book.

[KidsHappen]

All this talk of the men-in-black have my brain running to this final scenario. Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones show up, flash some pen thingamagig, thats why they're on the plane without the memories of the island. So it's all really just a MIB sequel. :lol::lol:...I'm so glad school is over for the day.

 

Oh and this reminds me, is anyone noticing any resemblence to the Dark Tower series by Stephen King. The producers have said he definitely influenced them but some of the parallels are pretty deep.

[Charles Wallace]

What makes you so sure, mister? :toetap05:

 

Because they had to take him off the plane in a wheelchair. I was so bummed. Up until that moment, I'd truly held out hope that Locke's luck had been as good as Hurley's apparently had been...

[Charles Wallace]

Too much swirling in my head. Just wanted to add that I heard the smoke thing-y called the "Locke-ness Monster" :lol:

Oh, CLASSIC!!

[gardening momma]

My thought is that when Juliet hit the bomb, it *did* explode (thus the "it worked" comment), but at the same time, they time-traveled (thus the white light, the ringing in the ears and the comment from Jin that they time traveled because it had happened to him before). Therefore, they are both in 2004 (in LA), AND in present time, which makes sense that they are ON the island (the time travel) AND that it's under water (because of the explosion).

 

I understood interactions on the plane to be different than another poster on here, but it's because I assumed, which one should never do with this show, LOL. Anyway, I assumed that Hurley's comment about bad things never happening to him was FULL of sarcasm OR, he was trying to be positive (and perhaps listening to self-help stuff on his iPod). I assumed that Sun was lying that she didn't know how to speak English, because we have learned that she learned English before their trip and was able to so aptly lie about it for so long on the island. Plus, she didn't want to be in the relationship with Jin anymore anyway (thus the fighting on the island on seasons past and the revelation of her affair). So since Jin was in trouble, she decided to let that one play out. As far as Locke, I don't think he was happy being in the wheelchair for one second. He lied about going on the walk-about and was clearly upset that he couldn't get up like everyone else and walk out of the plane. He was kind because that's the person he was. And, if he was happy with his situation, his eyes wouldn't have lit up when Jack said "nothing is irreversible" and offered to consult him for free.

:iagree:

 

I *don't* understand, how, if Desmond was on the plane (and where DID he go? And why was he the only one Jack recognized?), how Juliet was in the blown up Swan. If Desmond was on the plane, how was he already on the island when the plane crashed to blow up the Swan? I also don't understand where Widmore is going to fit into this, and why, during the 1st hour, the narrator didn't mention Penny and Desmond at all.

It was possible for Desmond to be on the plane in the AR because there was no Swan Station in that reality. So he was as likely to be on the plane as anywhere else in the world. In the other reality, there was no bomb, so there was an incident, and the Swan Station was built to contain the electro magnetic energy (and a person was needed to push the button). So that's why Desmond was there when the plane flew over the island that time (IIRC, he was sailing, and shipwrecked on the island. That's how he ended up there. In the AR, he couldn't shipwreck there--maybe he wasn't on a sailboat in the first place).

 

Need to finish the rest of this thread...I think I only got to page 3 so far...

[gardening momma]

Re: the differences, if the plane never landed on the island (or was to land on the island) than Jacob would never have entered their lives and perhaps that's what caused the differences in some way that I can't imagine. Maybe Harley used different numbers to win the lottery? Could Locke have been allowed on the walk around because of Jacob not being there to tell him that everything would be ok after he fell?

If Jacob never entered their lives, then he didn't help Locke after he fell from the building. It appeared to me that Jacob either brought Locke back from the dead, or did something that kept him from dying at that time. I think that if it wasn't for Jacob, Locke would have died there.

 

In the AR, I don't think Locke went on the walkabout. I think he was putting on a show of how capable he was, and how much he was able to do (even though his fellow passenger didn't know he was handicapped). I don't think Locke was content; he was more in denial.

Edited February 5, 2010 by gardening momma

[gardening momma]

Has anyone else considered the possibility that Jacob is not the good guy? It is cliche to assume that just because he is in white and the other in black that that is how we tell if they are good or bad. What made me think of this is when John said, "I am disappointed in all of you." If he was in fact a bad person, why would he be disappointed in them?

When we saw Jacob and the MIB together on the beach, it seemed that Jacob was meddling, and causing shipwrecks and such for pleasure and so he could meddle with people more. That made me think he was a bad guy. But then again, maybe he was doing it in an effort to "go home" as Flocke said.

 

ETA: when I wrote this, I was a little mixed up, thinking Flocke was Jacob, but the theory is that Flocke is MIB. I still think Jacob was meddling--on the beach with MIB, MIB indicated that Jacob was causing ships to come & shipwreck on the island.

Edited February 5, 2010 by gardening momma

[gardening momma]

Also, did you notice Locke lost his knives, and Jack lost his father (coffin + body of Christian Shepherd) on the "new" flight? dooo dooooo doooo...something funny going on....

Dh says that on the various Lost forums people are saying that the airline did not say that the coffin was missing, just the "cargo", and Jack interpreted that to mean his dad and coffin. But if you were the airline, and a body was missing from a coffin, would you want to tell the customer that, or let them assume that the whole thing was missing somewhere and had a chance of showing up eventually? Dh said that maybe the body disappeared from the coffin during the turbulence the plane experience in the flight over the island in the AR.

[GWOB]

(fingers in ears) I will NOT spend countless hours reading all the links posted here. I will NOT try to decipher this show. I WILL only focus on a shirtless Sawyer. I WILL NOT GET SUCKED IN ANY MORE!!!

 

(You guys are not helping my resolution to spend less time on the internet:tongue_smilie:)

[angela in ohio]

Because they had to take him off the plane in a wheelchair. I was so bummed. Up until that moment, I'd truly held out hope that Locke's luck had been as good as Hurley's apparently had been...

 

I wondered if it is even the real Locke. ;)

[Chris in VA]

So, those who got blasted from 1977 (Juliet, Sawyer, Jack, etc) time-traveled into 2007 (the "current" year in the series, ie 3 years after they left the island). Everybody who was left on the island continued along in their lives. Cindy Stew was in the temple, the kids were there, etc. Flocke and all the Ajira people are in that time, Jacob is dead (yet appeared to Hurley). They saw the imploded Swan hatch, three years after it had imploded. OK. Juliet ended up in the Swan hatch (imploded) because that's where she was when she hit the bomb (that's where the hatch would be built). Got it.

 

So there's just 3 years now between the AR and the Island, right?

 

Just checking my understanding.

[Karenciavo]

Has anyone else considered the possibility that Jacob is not the good guy? It is cliche to assume that just because he is in white and the other in black that that is how we tell if they are good or bad. What made me think of this is when John said, "I am disappointed in all of you." If he was in fact a bad person, why would he be disappointed in them?

It's not just that one wears black and one wears white, MIB obviously manipulates and lies to people, Jacob doesn't appear to do that. Lying and manipulation = bad too.

 

Oj, I just had another interesting thought. We have been wondering how things could have changed before the flight. I think it is because they set off the bomb in 1977 and if the fractered into two realities it would have happened then.

 

Remember the Carlos Castenada book young Ben gave Sayid? Not that I think one book or myth or philosophy or scientific theory is the answer to this show. I think Darlton are like chefs working together with the supplies available to them and no recipe. They are sprinkling in a little of this and a little of that so we're never going to be able to say, "Oh that's definitely Osiris," or that the show following the philosophy of Rousseau or the Kierkegaard. We have a little "leap of Faith" plus a little "noble savage" plus etc. and at the end we'll see. And it would be fun if someone would write a book about it when it's all over. In the mean time I'm having fun reading up on quantum physics and mythology and philosophy. I haven't read Castenada since high school but I vaguing remember bits of it, truely seeing vs. what we are trained to see, etc.

[elegantlion]

Originally Posted by Janna

I *don't* understand, how, if Desmond was on the plane (and where DID he go? And why was he the only one Jack recognized?), how Juliet was in the blown up Swan. If Desmond was on the plane, how was he already on the island when the plane crashed to blow up the Swan? I also don't understand where Widmore is going to fit into this, and why, during the 1st hour, the narrator didn't mention Penny and Desmond at all.

 

 

Jack would have recognized because he and Desmond did meet before. However that was when Desmond was training for his sailing trip. They met at the stadium where Jack was running. But if Desmond never got the boat from Widmore would he have been sailing? Possible but not probable. Hence more confusion.

 

Did anyone catch the title of the book Desmond was reading on plane?

[muffinmom]

Originally Posted by Janna

I *don't* understand, how, if Desmond was on the plane (and where DID he go? And why was he the only one Jack recognized?), how Juliet was in the blown up Swan. If Desmond was on the plane, how was he already on the island when the plane crashed to blow up the Swan? I also don't understand where Widmore is going to fit into this, and why, during the 1st hour, the narrator didn't mention Penny and Desmond at all.

 

 

 

Jack would have recognized because he and Desmond did meet before. However that was when Desmond was training for his sailing trip. They met at the stadium where Jack was running. But if Desmond never got the boat from Widmore would he have been sailing? Possible but not probable. Hence more confusion.

 

Did anyone catch the title of the book Desmond was reading on plane?

 

Doc Jensen says it was Rushdie's Haroun And The Sea of Stories.

[Karenciavo]

Did anyone catch the title of the book Desmond was reading on plane?

 

Yes, Desmond was reading Haroun And The Sea of Stories by Rushdie.

[love2read]

I don't think Locke went on the walkabout.

I wonder if Locke has complete memory of what happened and was speaking honestly about going through the jungle, catching and cooking his own food, etc. If he did, that would exlain his response to Jack when he said that they didn't know where his father was.

[KidsHappen]

And finally, I just have to say that Josh's preformance when Juliet was dying was the best this show has seen. It was truly heartwrenching. I will be surprised if he doesn't get an Emmy for that. Not too bad for someone who was worried that he would be killed off in the first season because he was such a dislikable character.

[gardening momma]

I wonder if Locke has complete memory of what happened and was speaking honestly about going through the jungle, catching and cooking his own food, etc. If he did, that would exlain his response to Jack when he said that they didn't know where his father was.

Ah, maybe he had a memory of doing all that on the island? But then a tropical island jungle is much different than the Australian outback.

[elegantlion]

Doc Jensen says it was Rushdie's Haroun And The Sea of Stories.

 

Yes, Desmond was reading Haroun And The Sea of Stories by Rushdie.

 

 

Thank you! Quotes from the book via amazon. A clue perhaps?

 

'What's the use of stories that are not even true?'

 

The theme, another clue?

 

"Above all these, the main theme of the book is brought forth implicitly - That story-tellers cannot be silenced, and the ocean of stories would continue to surge with its many threads mixing and intermingling perpetually to generate fresh stories that would keep flowing. Looking a little deeper, it conveys that the magic of fiction has the power to soothe, restore, edify and sustain the harried, quotidian protagonists of everyday life."

Edited February 5, 2010 by elegantlion

[happyhomemaker25]

And finally, I just have to say that Josh's preformance when Juliet was dying was the best this show has seen. It was truly heartwrenching. I will be surprised if he doesn't get an Emmy for that. Not too bad for someone who was worried that he would be killed off in the first season because he was such a dislikable character.

 

 

 

:iagree: I had to laugh though because I am rewatching the first season now as I wait for Tuesday. I keep saying, "Eventually I'm gonna love this guy!" Then I even tell Hurly, "Eventually your gonna love this guy." LOL

[Truscifi]

I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but if the bomb went off in 1979, Juliet might not have ever gone to the island. Desmond might not have gotten to the island either. Also, everyone whose life was affected by things that happened between 1979 and present could have had different experiences because of things relating to the island or people on it that didn't happen or happened differently. And I thought the island under water was the present in the timeline where they didn't crash. DH and I think there are 2 distinct timelines that will have to be reintegrated at some point. Of course, we could be totally wrong. It's hard to tell with this show. And I'm still LOST as to where they are going with it all!

[gardening momma]

And I thought the island under water was the present in the timeline where they didn't crash.

Yes, I think that is in the present time as well.

[KidsHappen]

I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but if the bomb went off in 1979, Juliet might not have ever gone to the island. Desmond might not have gotten to the island either. Also, everyone whose life was affected by things that happened between 1979 and present could have had different experiences because of things relating to the island or people on it that didn't happen or happened differently. And I thought the island under water was the present in the timeline where they didn't crash. DH and I think there are 2 distinct timelines that will have to be reintegrated at some point. Of course, we could be totally wrong. It's hard to tell with this show. And I'm still LOST as to where they are going with it all!

 

The bomb went off in 1977 but otherwise everything you have said could be correct.