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I'm looking into it as a possibility for my ds5, and for remedial uses for my dc9, 10. I'm getting some mixed reviews on it. Some say it's confusing for both the child and the parent. Others seem to love it and say it works really well. I don't know if my ds5 is ready for it, it seems like it might be a little over his head for now. However without having it in my hands I really can't say.

 

Is it truly that hard to figure out how to implement? I've got a lot going on right now and don't have a lot of time to try to figure out a new curriculum. Other the other hand, I've always wanted a phonics program that teaches spelling at the same time as phonics, it just makes since to me.

 

Any thoughts? TIA!

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I taught my oldest to read via Writing Road to Reading and Sanseri's Teach Reading at Home.

 

I had no problems learning how to implement the program and teaching it. However, it was torturous for my active little guy. It was no fun.

 

I did continue to use WRTR for spelling through 5th grade with my oldest and for 2nd/3rd grade for #2.

 

I switched to Sing, Spell, Read, Write for #2 for learning how to read. I absolutely love SSRW. It is fun and produces excellent readers. I have used it successfully with 5 kids.

 

As for remediating your older 2, How to Teach Spelling contains all the rules, word lists for 1st-12th grades, and spiraled dictation. The TM is only about $30 and is all you need if you don't mind pulling from the TM the actual words/phrases/sentences for your students. All you would probably need to add would be the Spalding phonogram cards b/c they are so easy to use with the rules and key words on the back.

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Once you learn the program it is easy to teach or adapt. The big thing is that you can't just buy it, open the books and start teaching it. But the longer you use it the more you see it really works.

 

Now, to learn the program, the easiest way is to go over the phonograms and start working through the lists on your own with a notebook. And do the charts too.

 

Before 3rd grade, I don't work through the lists so much as I teach the phonograms and their sounds and then point the phonograms out when we find them in their reading.

 

Hope this helps.:001_smile:

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Once you learn the program it is easy to teach or adapt. The big thing is that you can't just buy it, open the books and start teaching it. But the longer you use it the more you see it really works.

 

Now, to learn the program, the easiest way is to go over the phonograms and start working through the lists on your own with a notebook. And do the charts too.

 

 

 

:iagree:It's not an open and go program, but I didn't find it difficult or confusing to learn. It just took some work. I bought the program about a month before I started teaching my ds and went through the steps myself before I started teaching him. I made my own notebook through list J-6. I think it's much easier to start with a beginning student than an older one. The beginning of the program is very easy so we eased into it and I learned a lot just by teaching it. We also only do 10 words/week for my K'er so we haven't covered that much material this year. If I'd started with a 3rd grader and worked at 40 words/week, I would have had a much steeper learning curve. The things that I thought would be hard for my ds (remembering ALL of the phonograms, markings and rules) were easier for him than they were for me.

 

I have a schedule that I put together for a K'er on my blog here. One thing I like about SWR is that it is completely customizable for your dc. This schedule has been perfect for us this year. We did take off a few weeks just for a break/review, but have followed it pretty closely other than that. It might give you an idea of what we've done and a head start if you decide to use the program. I'm working on my 1st grade schedule now. There is also a very active yahoo group where several trainers and the author answer any questions you have. That has been really helpful to me this year.

 

HTH,

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I'm looking into it as a possibility for my ds5, and for remedial uses for my dc9, 10. I'm getting some mixed reviews on it. Some say it's confusing for both the child and the parent. Others seem to love it and say it works really well. I don't know if my ds5 is ready for it, it seems like it might be a little over his head for now. However without having it in my hands I really can't say.

 

Is it truly that hard to figure out how to implement? I've got a lot going on right now and don't have a lot of time to try to figure out a new curriculum. Other the other hand, I've always wanted a phonics program that teaches spelling at the same time as phonics, it just makes since to me.

 

Any thoughts? TIA!

 

It isn't open and go, but a day spent going through the book was all I think I needed. I've said this before, but here goes:

Read through the SWR book (not the Wise Guide) and CROSS OUT everything a good editor would have. (I don't need her opinion on the intellectual degradation a dictionary displays by having the word "wymyn" in it. If you read a sociological book from the 70's, you will encounter this word, and I think a dictionary should have words one might encounter in it. Including it is not the dictionary's staff endorsement of it. Nor do I need opinions on how words like menu have been introduced from foreign languages for advertising purposes. Etc.).

 

Once crossed out, a quick outline can be made rather easily, IMO, and then you start learning your marks and handsignals. Once kiddo can say "that's the third sound of A" or gets it right when I hint "this /A/ is the third sound of a vowel combo", I no longer required the numbering of the letters, so the program is adaptable. She pushes that it isn't, but it is. There are lots of extras if you need them.

 

The power of the method for me (and remember, I'm just one person who is using it only once) is what it taught ME, how it helped me be the tutor, not the passive person assigning or parroting something, and how delighted my son is with the "puzzle" nature of it and his abilities with it. (And he is NOT a languagey kid, he is sci/mathy). He is proud of his words, and he strives to be neat in his notebook, and he runs down to show Papa. It is the only work he shows Papa.

 

HTH

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I'm looking into it as a possibility for my ds5, and for remedial uses for my dc9, 10. I'm getting some mixed reviews on it. Some say it's confusing for both the child and the parent. Others seem to love it and say it works really well. I don't know if my ds5 is ready for it, it seems like it might be a little over his head for now. However without having it in my hands I really can't say.

 

Is it truly that hard to figure out how to implement? I've got a lot going on right now and don't have a lot of time to try to figure out a new curriculum. Other the other hand, I've always wanted a phonics program that teaches spelling at the same time as phonics, it just makes since to me.

 

Any thoughts? TIA!

 

It is a good program, but I never did totally figure it out. I used it for about 2 years.

 

Heather

 

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I used it for a few years and it is a very strong program, BUT there is quite a learning curve to figure how to use it AND it is quite time consuming to teach it. I finally burnt out on it and moved on to something else. I continue to occasionally review the phonograms with my kids and I've been toying with dictating my daughter's CLE spelling words to her ala SWR because I think there are some real benefits to it. She is a very good speller, but it's been a year since we've used SWR and I'm noticing she's not as good at sounding words out as she was when we were.

 

Another alternative is AAS. From what I understand, it is supposed to be very similar in approach to SWR, but much less painful to implement. As a matter of fact, ever since AAS came out, it just doesn't seem like you hear about SWR all that much.

 

Lisa

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I have a love/hate relationship with SWR.

 

On one hand, I credit SWR with getting my ds to the point where he can spell and decode in spite of having visual perception problems. OTOH, it's time consuming for me, ds6 does not enjoy spelling lessons (well, the dictation...he likes the enrichments most of the time), and then there is the guilt factor involved b/c there is SO MUCH to the program - too much for a 5-6yo....but then again having SO MUCH makes it a very rich program, and something you could easily adapt for all of your dc.

 

I think it would be great for remediating a 9-10yo (then again MY oldest dc is only almost 7 so...;)), but maybe something the 5yo grows into. The 5yo could certainly start with the phonemic awareness and handwriting while you figure things out with the olders.

 

I have been tempted to try AAS (b/c I love the method of teaching), but having and understanding SWR, I can't justify the cost for me. If I hadn't already bought SWR, I'd likely pick AAS for the hand-holding. It might be $$$ buying for 3dc all at once though. idk.

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We used SWR for a couple of years. Like many stated, it has a very high learning curve for the teacher. It was also sooooo teacher intensive that it was not practical for me with three younger children at the time. My daughter absolutely hated it and it was not making our home school a joyful or peaceful place. We opted to switch to Spelling Power and have not regretted it. My kids may not know all the rules for exactly why we say a word the way we do, but they know how to read and, with the exception of my dyslexic student, are developing into good spellers. I still use some of the concepts, but I would not recommend the program.

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I was just going to post a question on this, but did a search first and came up with this thread.

 

I took the book out of the library. It is an old edition, so I don't know if newer editions are different. The reason I was looking into it is because my nine year old (and probably the seven yo as well) are struggling with learning to read.

 

I've been looking through the book. Granted, I haven't spent all day doing this. However, I am overwhelmed. It almost makes me think that this makes so much sense that of course this would help my dc with reading, spelling, etc. Also, it makes me think that someone else better help them with this. So, I was going to come here and say, "Where do I start with this? How do I do it?" I guess I need to read the book some more, but frankly I am not inspired to do so. Also, it says I need three hours a day to teach this. Really?? Not only does that sound difficult for us, but I will lose ds if that is the case, I believe. Would using the phonogram cards without the whole program make any sense? Where are these available to purchase?

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm hijacking here. But it is related.:001_smile:

 

I have nothing helpful to add except perhaps see if you can get this from your library first to determine if it might be for you. From my perspective, it is confusing and challenging (to me,lol).

 

Woolybear

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We do have used AAS I and I am just not happy with my dd10 retention of it. Even with the built in review ahe seems to retain very little of it. My ds9 is a struggling reader and I'm not sure if SWR would help or just confuse him even more. I really like the idea of teaching reading through spelling, it makes since, but not if it's going to confuse and frustrate me and my dc. I'm thinking it may be a little over my ds5's head. But I don't know without actaully seeing it. I checked and my library doesn't have it.

 

What about Abecedarian? I got the short A version for my struggling reader last year but gave up because I don't think it was working with him. I think it teaches reading and spelling at the same time.

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I guess I need to read the book some more, but frankly I am not inspired to do so. Also, it says I need three hours a day to teach this. Really?? Not only does that sound difficult for us, but I will lose ds if that is the case, I believe. Would using the phonogram cards without the whole program make any sense? Where are these available to purchase?

 

http://www.bhibooks.net/swr.html

 

 

You could use the phonograms and make your own spelling lists. It would be a little more work, but not so much on the early, simpler words. And you'd have to each the spelling rules, too. Someone here mentioned liking the WRTR cards better. I haven't seen them.

 

Three hours:lol: a day?

I started with 10 minutes and worked up to 20. And I am not using as a spelling program, but a reading and writing program, in conjunction with Phonics Pyramid.

 

If you aren't inspired, I would look elsewhere. At what level of reading are your kids stuck? I borrowed Reading Reflex, not because I was going to use it, but because I'm a bit of curriculum junkie. If my son had "stuck" much longer on learning to read, that is where I would have turned.

Edited by kalanamak
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I was just going to post a question on this, but did a search first and came up with this thread.

 

I took the book out of the library. It is an old edition, so I don't know if newer editions are different. The reason I was looking into it is because my nine year old (and probably the seven yo as well) are struggling with learning to read.

 

I've been looking through the book. Granted, I haven't spent all day doing this. However, I am overwhelmed. It almost makes me think that this makes so much sense that of course this would help my dc with reading, spelling, etc. Also, it makes me think that someone else better help them with this. So, I was going to come here and say, "Where do I start with this? How do I do it?" I guess I need to read the book some more, but frankly I am not inspired to do so. Also, it says I need three hours a day to teach this. Really?? Not only does that sound difficult for us, but I will lose ds if that is the case, I believe. Would using the phonogram cards without the whole program make any sense? Where are these available to purchase?

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm hijacking here. But it is related.:001_smile:

 

I have nothing helpful to add except perhaps see if you can get this from your library first to determine if it might be for you. From my perspective, it is confusing and challenging (to me,lol).

 

Woolybear

 

I couldn't figure out how to make WRTR work for me either. SWR was what I needed. And no, 3 hours/day is not realistic. Our average day is 30 mins. Some days can be as little as 15 mins or up to 45 mins depending on what we're doing. Days we play games are the 45 min day, but are more fun. I imagine that we'll spend more time on LA as my ds gets older and we add in grammar and writing.

 

The phonogram cards would be valuable by themselves, but I'd have a hard time putting them in context for my ds. The spelling lists do that for me. If you are looking at it to be a spelling program, it would be easier to use either the EA list (in WRTR) or the WISE guide. I would go crazy trying to come up with my own words.

 

We do have used AAS I and I am just not happy with my dd10 retention of it. Even with the built in review ahe seems to retain very little of it. My ds9 is a struggling reader and I'm not sure if SWR would help or just confuse him even more. I really like the idea of teaching reading through spelling, it makes since, but not if it's going to confuse and frustrate me and my dc. I'm thinking it may be a little over my ds5's head. But I don't know without actaully seeing it. I checked and my library doesn't have it.

 

What about Abecedarian? I got the short A version for my struggling reader last year but gave up because I don't think it was working with him. I think it teaches reading and spelling at the same time.

 

My ds's reading has taken off with SWR. It gave him the tools (phonograms) to decode any word. The phonograms are introduced quickly so he started applying them to words and things started to make sense. Also, one part of SWR is reading the spelling lists several times each week from his logbook. They are familiar with the words and in isolation aren't overwhelming. This helped my ds with fluency. I don't know how it would work with a 9yo, but it's been perfect for a 5yo just learning.

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I started with SWR and found it to be more time-consuming than I had expected. My ds was not ready to write, which was tied to advancing into the program (we could only go so far with sand letters and sidewalk chalk.) So I switched to AAS and it was much easier to implement, but still more than my ds was ready for. We switched to The Reading Lesson and found a great match for us!

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Ok Stacy, I'm gonna give you the truth, straight up. If you buy SWR, with a little one on the way and a whole bunch of kids and minimal time to give to it, a year from now you're going to be selling it on the swap board. It does have a learning curve. I didn't say it has a terrible learning curve, but it does have a learning curve. I made a Quick & Dirty Guide to Getting Started with SWR, and I think it's still available for free on Lulu. I made it because Sanseri's layout in the edition I have and used with dd (obviously older, not a new edition, lol) didn't even have a TABLE OF CONTENTS, if you can imagine. Sanseri thinks differently from some people, and the layout can leave big picture people missing the big picture. Now she has made some changes, but that issue still exists. You basically have to decide if it's what you REALLY want, and you have to decide to give some time to it to learn enough of the method and theory to get going. If you do that, absolutely it could help you, and absolutely it would be workable in your situation.

 

Couple things. One, you want to consider the audio companion cd's to let the kids practice their words. If you try doing all the practice with all those kids, and are trying to get through pregnancy and newborn stage, someone is going to lose their minds. ;)

 

Two, I suggest you set aside a weekend, sans kids, to sit down and beat the beast. Use my quick & dirty guide, Sanseri's new start guide in the front of the SWR manual, attend a training seminar, whatever you want, but carve that time.

 

Three, don't start off with that 5 yo. He's gonna slide right in and be easy as pie once you learn how this works. Do you two olders, preferably together. You're going to give them both the placement tests. After you do that, you may see a big spread in their scores. No matter. Start both of them together for a while, and start at the beginning of the book with the very first list. After you've done the first 12 lists (1-2 lists a week, whatever works for you, 20 words in each list), I'll bet your ds's reading improves. At that point re-test, reassess, and decide whether to split or keep them together. At that point you'll have a groove on how you like to do things, and you'll have done it painlessly, on words they probably already somewhat know. You DON'T have to plow through the hardest words in the book to make progress. When they apply the rules and phonograms to easy words, even words they already know, they take their understanding to the next level. Sanseri says this and I found it true with my own dd.

 

Next, you said retention is an issue. The reason you're looking at something like SWR is NOT just for the method. As the others said, WRTR (which I started with, btw) is more or less the same thing. But Sanseri fleshes the approach out with lots of explanations in the SWR manual and LOTS of reinforcement in the Wise Guide. I also don't get the comment about the method not being fun. This is a method, and the fun is what you bring to it. It will be as fun as you make it. The SWR yahoo group has files on games and stuff from Britta who teaches her horde of boys with it. It certainly can be made boy-friendly. Back to practice. Consider doing a free learning styles assessment at http://www.educate.com to make sure you're teaching to their best learning style. I thought my dd was an auditory learner, and it was only when I got clued in that she was VISUAL that our school time improved, lol. So do this. It doesn't take long, and it's FREE. If you have an auditory learner, do practices and methods that feed to that, kwim? With my visual learner, I realized I needed a lot more visual input. I got her the calvert spelling cd's, which you now do by online subscription. (highly recommend!) I began doing lots and lots and lots of dictation, as in 3/4-1 page of dictation a day, so she could just get lots of practice seeing the words correctly. I like the Wise Guide sentences for dictation a lot.

 

Now here's my other two cents, and you can take it for what it's worth. I think you could combine some things and save yourself some grief and still get to the same place. Not that I don't think SWR would be great, but I'm not sure it would be great for YOU with a baby coming, energy about to drop, time about to disappear, etc. If I were you, I would FIRST test their learning styles. Really and truly. You can't teach them effectively till you know how they best learn. Two, I would make sure that ds9 doesn't have any issues. Have his eyes been checked? Does he have any issues that need treatment or attention? I'm just asking, not implying. Three, I would then, armed with the info on their best learning styles and being well-situated for success by removing barriers, pick the method that FITS their learning style and requires absolutely NOTHING from you to make it happen. Or at least next to nothing. If I can do it from a recliner with my feet propped up and eyes half-closed, that's close enough. Seriously. Do you really think you're going to spend 45 minutes a day teaching these chilluns spelling??? Things *I* would consider in your shoes:

 

-online calvert spelling. I didn't say it was amazing, but it is fun and will get done. My dd enjoyed it, and it gave her success that turned around her attitude toward dictation.

-dictation--Doesn't matter what you dictate. You can do this with your feet propped up! Dictate from Pooh. Dictate from their science book. Dictate from the Wise Guide. Dictate from anything you want. But dictate and get some quantity going, every single day. I'd shoot for 1 page written. It will take a while, and you might have some bad habits to break at first. With my dd I asked about every single word she didn't know and made buzzer sounds to stop her if she plowed into writing a word incorrectly. It's not a test, so don't turn it into that. It's a team effort, a game.

-Copywork. This requires even less from mama. Anything that gets done is better than the idealistic program that doesn't get done, kwim?

-Phonetic Zoo--If one of them turns out to be an auditory learner, by all means pursue this. Totally independent and the words are fun. Even has a money back guarantee.

 

I have the tm for How to Teach Spelling. It groups words by rule/pattern, which is a bit different from SWR that flops everything together. Indeed the words and practice sentences do spiral. They're sort of plain, where the sentences in the Wise Guide are amazing and rich. As a compromise, I like the spiraling dictation of Spelling Plus. Unfortunately, that doesn't give you any theory on how to break down and explain words. Theoretically you could take the phonogram cards and rules cards from SWR and carry them over to Spelling Plus (or Spelling Wisdom, or anything else you like), but that might be easier if you already sort of understand the method. SWR is NOT inherently hard, but it's not set up to give you the big picture quickly and easily, meaning it frustrates people. I would say it's a toss-up for you. If you are willing to carve that time and want it badly enough, you can do it. If you know those things are gonna give, save yourself some money and do something else. Nothing worse than having an expensive program guilt-trip you. You could get just the phonogram and rules cards and use them alongside that more independent approach. Be practical. It's probably not going to be any ONE thing that solves their problems anyway. I personally think half the problem is our kids flat don't write enough. If you don't write enough, you don't use the words, hence no retention. Write more (dictation, narrations, book reports, etc., etc.,) and you're halfway there. You can do that without a program, then come back to the program when you have time.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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We do have used AAS I and I am just not happy with my dd10 retention of it. Even with the built in review ahe seems to retain very little of it. My ds9 is a struggling reader and I'm not sure if SWR would help or just confuse him even more. I really like the idea of teaching reading through spelling, it makes since, but not if it's going to confuse and frustrate me and my dc. I'm thinking it may be a little over my ds5's head. But I don't know without actaully seeing it. I checked and my library doesn't have it.

 

What about Abecedarian? I got the short A version for my struggling reader last year but gave up because I don't think it was working with him. I think it teaches reading and spelling at the same time.

 

Do you mean that she doesn't remember the cards when you bring them out for review, or do you mean it's not translating into her writing?

 

If she's not remembering the cards, you may be moving them to mastered too quickly. I actually expanded the review system for my kids so that we would review words longer before they go into mastered. We review cards each day for 2-5 minutes. You may need to slow the lessons down a bit if she's not retaining.

 

But if you mean it's not translating into her writing, that's another issue. Here's a blog I wrote on how to help with that.

 

HTH some! Merry :-)

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Elizabeth, thanks for your wonderful insight! I went ahead and bought SWR, used on this board ;), I felt I really needed to have it in my hands to know if it's something for us. I really want to give it a try. I have a little over three months until this wee one is born so hopefully that's enough time to get a grasp on it. I will look on lulu to see if your quick and dirty guide is still there. Do you have any pointers for getting started?

 

I had some educational testing done on my ds9 last summer through our public school system. I was a little dissapointed at the results as they were more, yeah he's behind, but we can't tell you why. :glare: I have an appointment set up for him with our ped to see if he will refer us for some testing with a private pyschologist. I also would like to have his eyes tested. There were tested over a year ago and he's vision was fine. I also had him tested with a developmental optometrist he he did find some impairments, but never went into detail as to what they were. He just gave me some exercises to do with him at home. We have moved since then and I haven't found one in our area yet. Having said all that, yes he does has some issues, what they exactly are, I don't know.

 

Retention is definitly an issue with my dd10 for spelling. I have to admit that school has really been hit or miss lately. We are living with my grandparents. My dh was laid off last fall and just found a temporary job at the end of Decemeber. Life has been hard and stressful. I just need to pull it together and get us going again. Even when we were doing spelling everyday she still had trouble with retention and applying the rules she was learning in AAS to her outside writing. She would ask me how to spell a word that she could be applying a rule to that she'd learn but didn't realize it.

 

I gotta go start lunch. Thanks everybody for all your insight! Sorry for any spelling errors. hehe

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I didn't see this in any of the review here so I wanted to add my two cents.

 

What I think most WTM'ers don't realize is that SWR can be an all-encompassing program for kids through 2nd-3rd grade when it comes to spelling, writing, reading, and grammar. There is copywork, reading suggestions, writing opportunities, and grammar work. If you use this alone, and then add in your math and history, you've just covered everything a child needs for the first 4 years of schooling. But if you try to use SWR (doing every bit of it), then use a grammar program, and a copywork program, and an intense history...you see where I'm going with this? You've just doubled your workload.

 

A friend and I made worksheets for all of the SWR lists using the enrichments from the Wise Guide and this made my job a lot easier. By the time my oldest dd hit 3rd grade, we began using a grammar program as well as Latin and she has been able to keep up very well since then. I wish now, looking back, that I had understood what all SWR had to offer. Check the appendix in SWR for a schedule. That was a great help and made the program much easier to implement.

 

Good luck! And know that there are many SWR users here ready to help!

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Thanks for the links, I will check them out. I visited your blog and am amazed at your ds5 reading and spelling ability. I was curious if he new any of the alphabet by name before you started SWR? What was your preschool years with him like? I want to give my ds5 the best start possible.

 

I found Liz FitzGerald's Getting Started 101 helpful. She also has a chart that describes starting with beginners and older beginners here.

 

Have fun!

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Thanks for the links, I will check them out. I visited your blog and am amazed at your ds5 reading and spelling ability. I was curious if he new any of the alphabet by name before you started SWR? What was your preschool years with him like? I want to give my ds5 the best start possible.

 

Thanks. He did know his alphabet and letter sounds by 3. Around then, I made my own flashcards from WRTR and casually exposed him to them until he was 5. He had the first 26 (including 2nd and 3rd sounds) mastered by the time we started SWR at 5 and recognized about 20 more, but the sounds weren't mastered. I didn't do any writing with him until 5, so we were at the very beginning when we started the program. He learned very fast and we were able to start the spelling lists after only a week of practicing his manuscript. His writing was pretty rough at first, but he formed his letters correctly. He's made a lot of progress this year just from practicing writing his spelling words. The key for him was not to force him to write too much, but expect what he did write to be good quality. Allowing him to do a lot of writing on a white board instead of only paper at first really helped with writing fatigue. He still wrote on paper twice per week (the first dictation and the test.) What I love most is that he's retaining the lessons and applying them to words we haven't covered yet.

 

Now that I've been doing the program for the year, I have a better idea of how to prepare my current preschooler. He also knows his alphabet and letter sounds and can blend words. He learned all of that from the leapfrog DVDs and listening in on big brother's lessons. We'll still continue to casually learn the phonograms. I don't think anything else is needed there. I am doing more with fine motor skills and focusing on early writing skills. I'm going to make a salt box this week for him to practice forming letters. I think Sanseri has great suggestions in her preschoolers section (step 2). We'll do more of those in the next year. I had to break some bad habits with D-Man and I'm hoping to head that off with his younger brothers.

 

BTW, I don't think knowing the actual letter names is necessary. The sounds are what's important. I even discourage my ds from spelling out words with the letter names. It won't matter later, but we're still pretty early in the program and I want him to think about the sounds.

 

I hope that helps,

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