Everday Math/Chicago Math... care to share?

[Heather in Neverland]

So as I am revamping the curriculum at my school, my director asked me to look into the curriculum of all the biggest and best international schools in the world. An overwhelming percentage of them use the Everyday Math (aka Chicago Math) series.

 

I was surprised by this because all the reviews I've ever read have BLASTED this program...at least in the U.S. I have no personal experience with it.

 

So I am wondering if any of you use it or have used it? Any opinions on it? Can someone explain why huge, prestigious international schools would choose a program like this?

[tex-mex]

Used it back in the mid-late 90's at one school I taught. Back then, I was not impressed. At one charter school I taught at, they used Saxon Math -- which was great! My son's school in another part of the state used EM and it was highly criticized by the teachers and parents. But it was state approved and the public school could not afford anything else.

[Heather in Neverland]

Used it back in the mid-late 90's at one school I taught. Back then, I was not impressed. At one charter school I taught at, they used Saxon Math -- which was great! My son's school in another part of the state used EM and it was highly criticized by the teachers and parents. But it was state approved and the public school could not afford anything else.

 

What are you doing up at this hour girl?

[tex-mex]

What are you doing up at this hour girl?

 

LOL... insommia and chocolate. :D Gotta confess I am a night owl. One of my New Year's resolutions is to get more sleep and wake up at a decent hour. LOL. Eeeep. OMG. I just made a resolution! ;)

Have a Great Day!

:grouphug:

[Annabel Lee]

EDM - my son used it in ps. Hate it. Know TONS of other parents who hated it too. My dd's friend's mom afterschooled with her own math b/c of it. Do you have access to the EDM books to review before deciding? At the 1st grade level, it seemed behind and there just wasn't enough review. There's little to no deeper understanding of number relationships (such as w/ RS, Singapore, or another base-10 program). There is just so much blank space on the pages - it's easy to see why kids don't retain well with it; not enough practice.

My son's teacher was a very good teacher and she made the best of it; but with the number of kids and the range of skill levels within her class I saw that my son wasn't being challenged. I pulled him out at semester & went back to homeschooling.

[Pippen]

This is my first year of homeschooling (youngest child, 5th grade) and all of my kids have used EM in the public schools. I'm also using it with my 5th grader this year since hs was planned as a one year pull out.

 

One of my kids has done great with it. I can only think of a handful of times he's ever needed help from home and he's moved onto middle school and is doing well with what I'd consider better math programs.

 

My other two fared fine until 4th-5th grade and then both of them started experiencing loads of frustration. Around that time I also started seeing lots of supplemental worksheets coming home and now that I'm teaching it I see why. One of the main differences about EM is that it is constantly cycling back to review older material, as in there is nearly one review assignment for every regular assignment in each chapter we've done so far. This is very helpful for students who need it, but it takes a lot of time away from current instruction and can be really disruptive to present learning. When we're in the middle of learning something new and important I often push the review aside and take time at the end of the chapter or in between chapters instead, but that's not how the program is written.

 

The second aspect of EM that can be problematic is that often it isn't designed for students to master material when they first encounter it, but rather for them to get an introduction to a topic with more practice built into later chapters so that they gradually slide into mastery. My daughter was one of the strongest students in her 4th grade ps class last year and she wound up hating math by the end of the year and I couldn't discern if it was from her overall attitude or something in particular that had occured with the math program or teacher. Once I got her home and started disecting her skills and the year it turned out she just crashed when they hit division using the non-mastery approach. I had to start over again and stick with it until she had solidified her skills and then she was ready to roll again. This is why I'd been seeing a lot of supplemental worksheets coming home for 4th and 5th grade with all of my kids: because there just isn't enough in the curriculum for some of the more important topics. My daughter's frustration was intensified because she was in a class with a lot of weak students so they did nearly every review assignment in the books (which bored her to death), but the one spot where she really needed a solid presentation with plenty of practice, she didn't get it.

 

The third main point to know is that the program really touts itself for teaching multiple methods of doing problems, with the intent that it will improve understanding and hit a wider group of kids due to different styles. Again this is like the constant review--helpful for some kids but a huge source of frustration for others. Often my kids would get the concept down and use the algorithm that worked best for them, only to be forced back into algorithms that they hated during the review pages.

 

Having said all of that, the teachers seem to really like it, and the high school teachers who were around to see the transition felt like the kids coming through who'd used EM were stronger. Also I should mention that in upper elementary in our district it's pretty common to only get through about 7 of the usual 12 chapters. They hit it really hard until state testing in March and then most ease up and little new content is introduced after that. I will say that the constant review probably does help boost test scores.

 

Not our district, but I found that Milwaukee Public Schools have curriculum guides for each grade online if that would be of help to you.

http://www.google.com/search?q=milwaukee+public+schools+everyday+math+curriculum+guide&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS

[Soph the vet]

Our local PS uses it, many in MN do use it. The parents I know hate it. I have a friend who is a principal at a local PS and was "impressed by the great marketing":confused:. Another friend teaches high school math and college math and he can't stand that the elementary school uses EM, thinks it is awful.

[creekland]

I'm going to agree with what the others have said. My kids (3) were in public school through 8th, 6th, and 4th grades respectively. Between the middle and youngest son our school switched to EM. At first I was happy with it. My youngest knew what a trapezoid was in elementary school (among other generally more advanced topics)! However, when I pulled them out to homeschool, I found out he knew practically NOTHING about basic math. He couldn't multiply, divide, do anything with fractions or understand any of the normal concepts that those work upon. He could still name all the polygons and had a good concept of distance and money, but... those aren't all math is.

 

I had to take time out and reteach - and find I'm still reteaching as he never learned these things in the formative years. Just now, in 8th grade, and working in Alg 1, he's finally gotten some of those concepts down pat. It wouldn't have happened had I not intervened.

 

Our school also starts kids using a calculator - now in 1st grade (was in 4th when my kids were there). This effectively means none of the kids I see in high school math can do fractions and precious few can even do 6x7 without one. I get arguments that -2 squared is -4 (their calculator says so - TILL I tell them to use parentheses). About half can't do 3x3 - and our middle and high school are failing miserably with our state tests.

 

So, if you do opt to use this material, find the time to be sure the basics are there for all children AND eliminate calculator usage (if you want my opinion). The material is not all bad, but it's certainly not one I would choose to use. I think it's the latest fad. That said, with proper adjusting, it probably could be used.

 

Interestingly enough, by comparison, my oldest son scored in the 97th percentile on the ACT (NO EM and NO calc till 7th grade when starting Alg 1). My middle son scores even higher on practice tests (NO EM and calculator starting in 4th - BUT I had to go back and teach him fractions once I found out he didn't know them without one). I'm not sure I'll be able to correct enough for my youngest. Whether that's a natural math talent (or lack thereof) or due to the switch in programs, I'll never know. I do know my youngest son is as intelligent (or moreso) than my other two in everything else. The rest will be a constant wonder.

[Pippen]

Our school also starts kids using a calculator - now in 1st grade (was in 4th when my kids were there). This effectively means none of the kids I see in high school math can do fractions and precious few can even do 6x7 without one. I get arguments that -2 squared is -4 (their calculator says so - TILL I tell them to use parentheses). About half can't do 3x3 - and our middle and high school are failing miserably with our state tests.

.

 

I would guess that to be more the district choice rather than EM. My kids have had very little calculator use up until 6th grade.

[plansrme]

My kids' former private Christian school, as well as most of the elite private schools in this area (Atlanta) use it. It is the pits. Go to youtube and search "Everyday Math" for several demonstration of the way it teaches long multiplication and division. The "lattice method" is ridiculous.

 

My first grader would come home with homework assignments such as, "In this box, show five ways to represent the number twelve." You could write it in Spanish, in tally marks, in numerals, you could draw twelve apples, whatever. It seemed completely pointless to me. Another assignment was to go around the house and find numbers. Yeah, just cut them out of magazines and such. The kids also are taught to rely heavily on a number grid that is taped to their desks, and they use calculators in first grade.

 

I was afterschooling with Singapore Math at the time, and the difference in what we were doing in SM and what they were bringing home from school was absurd.

 

The popularity of Everyday Math is one of the great mysteries to me.

 

Terri

[creekland]

I would guess that to be more the district choice rather than EM. My kids have had very little calculator use up until 6th grade.

 

True - and I should have been more clear that I think it's the combo of the two that is REALLY bad.

[MBM]

My youngest son used it in first and second grades. We didn't like it and began using Saxon and then Singapore at home.

 

Here's an old You Tube video about EM that you might want to check out:

 

[creekland]

The kids also are taught to rely heavily on a number grid that is taped to their desks, and they use calculators in first grade.

 

...

 

The popularity of Everyday Math is one of the great mysteries to me.

 

Terri

 

So it's NOT just our school with calculators now being used in first grade with EM.

 

Otherwise... :iagree: with absolutely everything you said - and wish I'd been more attentive to what wasn't being learned by my youngest earlier. Sadly, I assumed that since my older two had done well that my youngest would too.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I would look at Singapore Math:)

 

 

 

http://www.illinoisloop.org/math.html#spiral

 

 

 

 

[Perry]

EDM and TERC Investigations are why I started homeschooling. Loathe. Them.

 

My dd went back to ps this year. She takes Geometry with a small class of 8th graders who are the highest achieving math students in the school. Most of them are in the talented and gifted program.

Last month the teacher gave them a fraction assessment.

 

It was a 32 question test over the 4 basic operations. An example: 3/5 +2/5=?

My dd found it very simple and finished it in 7 minutes. None of the other kids finished in the allotted 30 minutes, and they all found it very difficult.

 

 

She frequently helps her classmates with their algebra and T-math. She is astounded by what they don't know and haven't been taught. They are constantly using convoluted, complicated methods to solve basic, straightforward problems. When she shows them how she does it, they are shocked and say "well that makes sense. Why didn't they just teach us that!"

 

These are bright, motivated kids. They haven't been taught math. It is inexcusable that the best 8th grade math students can't do simple fractions.

 

 

 

We used Singapore through 6B, then Chalkdust Prealgebra and Foerster's Algebra 1. While she likes ps in general, she has told me she will never take another ps math class and wants to dual enroll from now on and do math at home. :hurray:

Edited December 31, 2009 by Perry

[Chris in VA]

We had a little experience with it when my kids were in elementary school. As a teacher, I have to say I remember being excited about it--the manipulatives! The color! The interesting way old concepts were taught! The connections! The mathmatical thinking!

 

Now my thoughts? It's ok in some ways. First of all, you need to implement ALL of it, and many schools don't have the budget to do that. Second, I think the emphasis on providing different ways to solve problems ("other algorithims?") that is designed to give kids multiple pov's in case the standard waydoesn't click, has the unfortunate outcome of confusing and obscuring what can be very straightforward. Whew--does that sentence even make sense? :D Lattice multiplication, for instance--it's a way to show what is usually going on in the head--and it can be so confusing! It can also lead to better understanding. Personally, I don't have a problem showing some different techniques--I have a problem with requiring kids to master what are essentially meant as demonstrations that lead to understanding of the standard algorithm. No one in advanced math has time, for goodness sake, to do lattice multiplication! If it doesn't lead to a reasonably quick way of solving problems, it's a time-waster and will inhibit advancing in math. That would seem to be doing a disservice to kids.

 

Third, remember that math curricula is written by folks who already know math. They have already made the connections, memorized the algorithms, have the number sense, learned the ins and outs. It's rare to find a math program that can promote mathmatical thinking in children who are w/o a lot of math experience. There's a delicate balance between teaching how to DO math, to make it answer the questions you want answered, and how to THINK about math, to get to that same answer. Any program that says the answer doesn't matter, it's the THINKING that is important, has thrown the baby out with the bath water. Perhaps EM is one of these?

Edited December 31, 2009 by Chris in VA

[Pippen]

The "lattice method" is ridiculous.

 

I was a high school science teacher and I about hit the roof when my son came home and I saw the lattice method. He was favoring that algorithm and I basically forbid him to use it unless it was required (I was having visions of him still using it for high school physics!). He was really irritated with me but he was the one who strongly stressed to his younger siblings not to use it and I hardly had to say a word.

[Heather in WI]

Not our district, but I found that Milwaukee Public Schools have curriculum guides for each grade online if that would be of help to you.

http://www.google.com/search?q=milwaukee+public+schools+everyday+math+curriculum+guide&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS

 

I'm in Milwaukee County. Milwaukee Public Schools are HORRIBLE and this is NOT a selling point.

 

 

 

More than four out of 10 Milwaukee Public Schools fourth-graders score at or below the most basic level of math proficiency, and more than six out of 10 eighth-graders score at or below basic, according to a national study that compared achievement levels of public school students in the nation's large cities. Only Detroit scored worse than Milwaukee at the eighth-grade level ... the average scores at the fourth and eighth grade (in MPS) are lower than the average special needs (students') scores for the state of Wisconsin...

MPS students get poor marks in national urban test

 

 

Our schools are so bad that there is a huge hoopla right now with the mayor trying to oust the school board and take over the school district, FYI.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Heather in WI

[mama2cntrykids]

My oldest ds' school used it last year when he was in 2nd grade (they still do). He is now HSed. I hated it and he just used it for one year. They very rarely focused on math facts, which I think is important. He would never go back to a school that's using EDM. That may sound harsh, but I had to re-teach him stuff this year that the teacher should have done last year---period. Not that I see him actually going back to PS anytime soon, just saying...;)

[Chris in VA]

So, Heather, whaddaya think? :D

Got a little blasted, didn't it?

 

Sometimes I find it funny how I quickly jump on the bandwagon to bash curriculum I hate.

[Pippen]

I'm in Milwaukee County. Milwaukee Public Schools are HORRIBLE and this is NOT a selling point.

 

Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't mean it as a recommendation, but since I was pretty much stuck using EM this year in order to provide contunity for my daughter during her one year out of ps, I did find the guides helpful. I was a public high school teacher for ten years and I've found it very difficult working with these teacher's materials and the simple overview on the guides makes the job easier.

[Heather in WI]

So, Heather, whaddaya think? :D

Got a little blasted, didn't it?

 

Sometimes I find it funny how I quickly jump on the bandwagon to bash curriculum I hate.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't mean it as a recommendation, but since I was pretty much stuck using EM this year in order to provide contunity for my daughter during her one year out of ps, I did find the guides helpful.

 

 

I'm sorry. I hope Pippen doesn't feel I was :boxing_smiley:!

 

I guess I did :auto: to get my :smash: on.

 

I apologize if I offended anyone.

[Pippen]

I'm sorry. I hope Pippen doesn't feel I was :boxing_smiley:!

 

I guess I did :auto: to get my :smash: on.

 

I apologize if I offended anyone.

 

Not at all! Please carry on. :D

[Heather in WI]

Not at all! Please carry on. :D

 

:hurray: Now I can relax. :)

[Chris in VA]

Hahaha--no, I was referring to Heather in NC and Everyday Math getting blasted, not you, dear Heather in WI! Sorry for the mix-up.

[Pippen]

:hurray: Now I can relax. :)

 

I'm from that area, and my mom still lives nearby and works in Milwaukee.

 

I subbed for a semester in MPS the year I graduated and even back then experienced things (like kids falling out of their seats dead drunk at 9am) that I never saw in all of my ten years of teaching where we live now. I don't envy the job that those teachers have.

[plansrme]

Sometimes I find it funny how I quickly jump on the bandwagon to bash curriculum I hate.

 

Everyday Math brings this out in people. I, for one, don't have as much antipathy towards any other curriculum, learning method or educational philosophy (even unschooling, which is so not me, but hey, if it works for you, knock yourself out!). I'm generally of the "there are many paths to a solid education" bent, but Everyday Math ("Evil Math" in my house) is not one of them.

 

Terri

[Heather in Neverland]

Well that cements it for me. To be honest, I don't remember ever reading a GOOD review of this program so when I started looking at the curriculum form these huge international schools (that have test scores that are off the charts awesome) I was REALLY surprised to see how many use EDM.

 

I was like :confused1: Then I thought, well maybe there is something I am missing...I better check with the Hive. And now I am even more confused. I want to call them up and ask them "why would you choose a math program that everybody hates?" Because now I have to go to my director and tell him that 80% of international schools use EDM and I have no idea why because it is terrible!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Well that cements it for me. To be honest, I don't remember ever reading a GOOD review of this program so when I started looking at the curriculum form these huge international schools (that have test scores that are off the charts awesome) I was REALLY surprised to see how many use EDM.

 

I was like :confused1: Then I thought, well maybe there is something I am missing...I better check with the Hive. And now I am even more confused. I want to call them up and ask them "why would you choose a math program that everybody hates?" Because now I have to go to my director and tell him that 80% of international schools use EDM and I have no idea why because it is terrible!

 

Do you have any links to the effect that say that many international schools are using EDM? I would be curious to see them since I find it hard to believe. Many countries perform better than we do at math and I would be surprised if they used EDM. I know many use it here in the U.S., but I cannot help but believe that it is a deplorable curriculum after everything that I read about it.

[kiana]

Well that cements it for me. To be honest, I don't remember ever reading a GOOD review of this program so when I started looking at the curriculum form these huge international schools (that have test scores that are off the charts awesome) I was REALLY surprised to see how many use EDM.

 

I was like :confused1: Then I thought, well maybe there is something I am missing...I better check with the Hive. And now I am even more confused. I want to call them up and ask them "why would you choose a math program that everybody hates?" Because now I have to go to my director and tell him that 80% of international schools use EDM and I have no idea why because it is terrible!

 

If Everyday Math is used in an environment which is very much pro-education, and in which the parents rush the children off for tutoring and drill as soon as they start to fall behind, it should work pretty well. Maybe this is why their test scores are great?

[Perry]

To be honest, I don't remember ever reading a GOOD review of this program so when I started looking at the curriculum form these huge international schools (that have test scores that are off the charts awesome)

All their students probably go to Kumon.

[MrsMe]

All I can say about it is it's screwy. I know no parent that thinks this is good. It takes you through circles to do simple math that could be done quicker the regular way. Go here

and you'll know why. To me it's like the dumbing down of kids. MO of course.

[Heather in Neverland]

Do you have any links to the effect that say that many international schools are using EDM? I would be curious to see them since I find it hard to believe. Many countries perform better than we do at math and I would be surprised if they used EDM. I know many use it here in the U.S., but I cannot help but believe that it is a deplorable curriculum after everything that I read about it.

 

Links? Well, not one link. I just went to each individual school's website and looked at their curriculum. At first, I was just checking the big schools in southeast Asia but then I started checking schools in other areas as well. Even international schools in south america are using it. It was such a trend that I sat up and took notice. And yes, their scores are way up there so that's why I was confused and started this thread.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Are their scores up there in TIMSS? I am sorry, but it is shocking to me, based upon what I have read, that EDM helped these schools to accomplish this.:001_huh:

Have these schools used other supplements that you know of? I would still consider Singapore Math IMHO:)

[Heather in Neverland]

Are their scores up there in TIMSS? I am sorry, but it is shocking to me, based upon what I have read, that EDM helped these schools to accomplish this.:001_huh:

Have these schools used other supplements that you know of? I would still consider Singapore Math IMHO:)

 

Its a good question...I am looking into it. What I can see so far is that Singapore and Hong Kong are in the top 5 for both 4th and 8th grade math (and the U.S. is further down on the list). Most of the major international schools in those countries are using EDM.

 

BUT the TIMSS scores are for the whole country...not just the international schools and I don't know what the other schools in HK and Singapore use (it use to be Singapore Math in Singapore but that has changed in recent years). And I can't find anything that gives me TIMSS scores on a school-by-school basis. I am looking at scores on the ITBS (for elementary and middle school), SAT and AP Calc and AP Statistics and the international schools are doing very well.

 

So it is hard to determine the real correlation between EDM and their math scores but it is safe to say that it isn't "hurting" their scores. Is it making them better? I don't know. The other factor I need to know is WHEN they started using EDM since it would take a few years for it to really impact their scores one way or another.

 

And yes, this IS an environment where education is the top priority for families. It is assumed that all kids will go to university and any student that is not scoring top marks is usually in after-school tutoring (called tuition here). So obviously that makes a difference too.

[Sputterduck]

Its a good question...I am looking into it. What I can see so far is that Singapore and Hong Kong are in the top 5 for both 4th and 8th grade math (and the U.S. is further down on the list). Most of the major international schools in those countries are using EDM.

 

BUT the TIMSS scores are for the whole country...not just the international schools and I don't know what the other schools in HK and Singapore use (it use to be Singapore Math in Singapore but that has changed in recent years). And I can't find anything that gives me TIMSS scores on a school-by-school basis. I am looking at scores on the ITBS (for elementary and middle school), SAT and AP Calc and AP Statistics and the international schools are doing very well.

 

So it is hard to determine the real correlation between EDM and their math scores but it is safe to say that it isn't "hurting" their scores. Is it making them better? I don't know. The other factor I need to know is WHEN they started using EDM since it would take a few years for it to really impact their scores one way or another.

 

And yes, this IS an environment where education is the top priority for families. It is assumed that all kids will go to university and any student that is not scoring top marks is usually in after-school tutoring (called tuition here). So obviously that makes a difference too.

 

Where did you get that Singapore is not using Singapore Math? I can't find that anywhere?

[Heather in Neverland]

Where did you get that Singapore is not using Singapore Math? I can't find that anywhere?

 

Let me rephrase...they are not ONLY using Singapore Math. It used to be the only program they used but recently they opened up the curriculum to other math programs and now a lot of schools are using other math programs and the original Singapore Math no longer dominates. The info is on the singapore math website. I guess the results of this change are yet to be seen but considering how well Singapore has performed on the TIMSS over the last 15 years, I am surprised they are changing programs.

[Pippen]

And yes, this IS an environment where education is the top priority for families. It is assumed that all kids will go to university and any student that is not scoring top marks is usually in after-school tutoring (called tuition here). So obviously that makes a difference too.

 

A huge difference, I think. I think your analysis that where EM might not be helping them become the best they can be, it probably isn't hurting students in this type of environment nearly as much as the general population. Strong students with strong teachers and strong family support is so different than from the typical public school here that it's like comparing apples to oranges.

 

One difference that is obvious to me is that a teacher could use the material differently. In comparing 4th grade math journals from my son (five years ahead of my daughter, school at about 26% low income) and my daughter (school at 43% low income, many more at-risk and special needs students), the difference is remarkable. My oldest got through about 7 chapters, skipped a good number of assignments or problems, and was assigned probably half of the review pages in the book. My daughter got through about 7 chapters, but did almost every single review page and most of the assignments because her class was so weak. By contrast, with me individualizing for her at home, she'll likely finish all 12 units for 5th grade this year, with about half of the review material. Likewise, I occasionally pop into the websites of the 5th grade teachers in my district to see where they are and at one point, one at the school with no low income kids and a super strong teacher was nearly three units ahead of the pack.

 

If schools were able to handle the material in this manner (doing only necessary review, hitting only what's important, minimizing what isn't traditional, completing the program each year, supplementing for the strongest students) I think it could considerably reduce the impact of what parents here are seeing as negatives.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Pippen

[Lisa in Jax]

It was THE reason we started home schooling. When I pulled DD from private school, she had to go back two years in "standard" math to get the skills she missed in EDM. Because EDM is spiral and b/c it gives multiple strategies, she never caught on to ONE strategy she could work with. So, each time a topic came around, it was like it was brand new, and she had to try to learn it all over again.

 

When she was in a school that used EDM, my daughter (whose IQ falls in the gifted range) felt dumb. She thought she wasn't good at math and she thought she couldn't learn it. After briefly trying Modern Curriculum Press, we settled on Singapore Math to fill in the gaps. Singapore made sense to my dd. She learned. She retained. She UNDERSTOOD math, instead of feeling confused.

 

It took two years to undo the damage EDM did to her math abilities and to her self esteem. So, if I was in charge of curriculum for a private school, I'd choose Singapore over EDM every day of the week.

 

EDM sounds good "on paper," but in my experience, it's a poor fit for most kids unless it's HEAVILY supplemented with another curriculum. IOW, for many kids, it's only good as a supplement, not as a primary curriculum.

 

Lisa

[MBM]

The p.s. kids in our suburb (less than 30,000) use EM, but they are heavily tutored as well. I know many parents who've begun tutoring the moment test scores dropped.

 

Then there are those who, like our family, afterschool using other math programs.

 

Liping Ma also writes in Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics that in China teachers can explain math to children accurately, more clearly and often in more than one way. She says this isn't typical of most American elementary math teachers, even the good ones. This may play a role in those schools that use EM successfully.

[nancy in nj]

Our experience is exactly the same as Lisa's. By the end of 2nd grade my daughter felt like a failure with EDM and trying to add 8 +6 would reduce her to tears. She was in one of the best public schools in NJ with top-notch teachers, and it was a horrible experience that damaged my daughter's self-esteem and convinced her that she was horrible in math.

 

I am a CPA who took a full year of calculus in college and my husband has a masters in mechanical engineering, so she was getting a fair amount of help from us at home, and unlike many of her classmates parents, we both understood the convoluted methods they were teaching. I had been wanting to homeschool my daughter for some time, but my husband had been against it. Toward the end of the 2nd grade year, my husband came to me after spending some time trying to help my daughter with basic addition and said "This is absolutely insane, get her out of there!"

 

The first year at home we focused on remediating math and made it through Singapore levels 2 & 3 plus Saxon 3rd grade level. By the end of that year she not only mastered addition, multiplication etc., but she could reduce fractions and easily find common denominators & add/subtract fractions. Fast forward to 8th grade, she absolutely loves algebra and completed Chalkdust Alg. II without any problem. Our biggest challenge during the intervening years was to restore her math confidence so that she was able to stay calm and logically tackle complex problems, rather than panicking and reverting to feeling stupid.

 

In many ways EDM was the best thing that ever happened to us since it was the push we needed to start homeschooling. I think it has been a very good thing for the homeschooling movement in general!

 

Nancy

[msjones]

I tutor Everyday Math students. I also work in classrooms where it is taught.

 

I have observed kids doing extremely well with the program. These are kids who can explain to you why algorithms work -- even, for example, the long division algorithm. They are comfortable manipulating numbers and can discuss mathematical concepts. They can solve problems like 24 x 36 'in their heads', and do some long division mentally, too. They are doing far better than any students I taught using the old program (Addison-Wesley). They do well on standardized math tests.

 

However, the kids I tutor are the ones who struggle with it, and they struggle mightily. They use horrendously tedious roundabout 'strategies' (that they don't truly understand) to solve simple problems (like 8 x 6). It is truly painful to see how little math they can do well. If they were in a traditional program, they would at least be able to 'crunch' some numbers and apply that 'crunching' to basic word problems.

 

I'll be the dissenting opinion, however, and say that I think the curriculum can be used successfully. I do believe, however, that most schools don't train the teachers well enough to use the program well. Also, to do the program thoroughly would require up to 2 hours each day.

 

Just my two cents.

[Chris in VA]

Heather, see if the stats are for ALL students or if they segregate out special ed kids. Also, see if the country offers the same kind of educational system--what I mean is that, in some countries, only the best and brightest who have $ go on past 6th grade or so.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I tutor Everyday Math students. I also work in classrooms where it is taught.

 

I have observed kids doing extremely well with the program. These are kids who can explain to you why algorithms work -- even, for example, the long division algorithm. They are comfortable manipulating numbers and can discuss mathematical concepts. They can solve problems like 24 x 36 'in their heads', and do some long division mentally, too. They are doing far better than any students I taught using the old program (Addison-Wesley). They do well on standardized math tests.

 

However, the kids I tutor are the ones who struggle with it, and they struggle mightily. They use horrendously tedious roundabout 'strategies' (that they don't truly understand) to solve simple problems (like 8 x 6). It is truly painful to see how little math they can do well. If they were in a traditional program, they would at least be able to 'crunch' some numbers and apply that 'crunching' to basic word problems.

 

I'll be the dissenting opinion, however, and say that I think the curriculum can be used successfully. I do believe, however, that most schools don't train the teachers well enough to use the program well. Also, to do the program thoroughly would require up to 2 hours each day.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I do not profess to be a teacher.:tongue_smilie: If the program takes up to 2 hours a day , then IMO it would not be a good choice since most schools allot 1 hour of math a day from my understanding. Plus my son's cyber school uses Sadlier-Oxford which uses traditional math algorithms and at the same time explains the algorithms in such a way that the student understands why they work. They also have used manipulatives, pictures, etc. to assist in explaining the algorithms, but then get down to the nitty gritty practice so speak;) The text also introduces mental math and other interesting math concepts, but it does not sacrifice math algorithm practice in the process. His text also does not show other convoluted ways of solving traditional math problems which IMO is a waste of time especially if the traditional algorithms can be explained in such a manner as to really understand why they work.

Now by preference, I also use Singapore Math which also explains math algorithms well so far IMO:)

 

My 2 cents:)

[Heather in Neverland]

I do not profess to be a teacher.:tongue_smilie: If the program takes up to 2 hours a day , then IMO it would not be a good choice since most schools allot 1 hour of math a day from my understanding. Plus my son's cyber school uses Sadlier-Oxford which uses traditional math algorithms and at the same time explains the algorithms in such a way that the student understands why they work. They also have used manipulatives, pictures, etc. to assist in explaining the algorithms, but then get down to the nitty gritty practice so speak;) The text also introduces mental math and other interesting math concepts, but it does not sacrifice math algorithm practice in the process. His text also does not show other convoluted ways of solving traditional math problems which IMO is a waste of time especially if the traditional algorithms can be explained in such a manner as to really understand why they work.

Now by preference, I also use Singapore Math which also explains math algorithms well so far IMO:)

 

My 2 cents:)

 

That is what I would like to see...traditional algorithms WITH deeper mathematical understanding. So perhaps it is less about the textbook and more about the teacher's knowledge/ability? I admit that I am an algorithm girl...it is how I learned. I was never taught to "understand" math...just follow the algorithm. I want my students to have both.

 

I am thinking about using Liping Ma's book as PD for my teachers but I am a little nervous since my background is in languages.