"Homeschool" abuse cases...How do you respond to questions?

[Lilymax]

But you see, this proves the point that often someone else in the community knows - like you, a family member. The first step (which you and others may have done) is to try and advocate for the boy within the community of your family. And the ugly and uncomfortable fact is that if you are ignored and it is real neglect then it should be reported to the authorities so that they can investigate it.

 

Now the flip side is that there is a lot of educational neglect happening in the schools too - not to everyone, but to those kids who fall through the cracks. Kids can fall through the cracks in any educational setting - at the public school, a private school and even at home.

 

We have tried addressing it with her, multiple times. One of my biggest gripes with the other members of the family is that they say his extreme behavior is due to her poor parenting, and they dismiss it. I was there when a friend who works with autistic children observed him at a birthday party and asked me how long it had been since his diagnosis and what type of help he was getting. She was appalled that his mother had never had him evaluated because his behavior was so clearly indicative of autism.

 

But his mother is one of those who uses homeschooling as an excuse for her own extreme social anxiety disorder and other mental issues. The boy's father isn't in the picture and doesn't want to be. I have contemplated calling DFACS even though we are halfway across the country. (We used to live in the same town.) I'm sure she'll know it's me, and a few relatives, including my kids' grandmother, would probably never speak to us again. But I feel so sorry for the child.

 

I sprung the idea of calling DFACS off some other homeschoolers and they said it was none of my business; I needed to stay out of it. But I guess if it's still bothering me, I need to make the call, huh?

 

I absolutely agree that educational neglect happens in all settings. It was happening at the pricey private school my oldest DS went to for several years and one of the reasons we pulled him out (when we finally figured out what was going wrong.)

[stripe]

Well, that's the trouble in a nutshell. Some people get very fired up that parents have the right to do whatever they want for/to their children. As an absolute right. And no family member or concerned citizen or government agency should EVER intervene, no matter what. However, some behaviors are so very clearly wrong that they need to be stopped. Rape, starvation, abuse, and neglect are a few that spring to mind immediately.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think there is a continuum in educational neglect and other kinds of neglect too for that matter. I think that homeschoolers get skittish sometimes because we could be labeled as neglecting our children's education when we aren't. Sometimes it is a season of time when a family is going through a rough time and schooling is set aside for a short time. Sometimes it is an educational philosophy issue where one person's educational freedom is another person's neglect. The tricky thing is telling when some of the benign neglect that we can all experience without a lot of harm, becomes something that really does harm a child's development.

 

In your nephew's case, Kari, it sounds like his behavior is extreme enough to have been "diagnosed" from someone just casually observing. Poor parenting of course can contribute to those problems. And poor parenting would affect him even if he was in the public school system. I'm so sorry that your SIL sounds unwilling to listen to concerned family that wants to help her.

[msjones]

How often do we see thread titles such as "oh my gosh, this is why I homeschool," harping on some news story that reflects poorly upon the public school? What's the difference?

 

Great point.

[Lovedtodeath]

Why did I open this thread! Stupid!

[pqr]

How often do we see thread titles such as "oh my gosh, this is why I homeschool," harping on some news story that reflects poorly upon the public school? What's the difference?

 

 

The difference is that I, theoretically, have a choice to HS or to send my children to a PS. Those who oppose HSing would see that choice taken away. Incidents such as this are horrendous wherever they happen, but when it is a “HS family” involved they are being used to shut down my educational choices. When they happen in PS few argue that all PSs should be shut down or made illegal.

 

 

When I rail against PSs it is because they are such a dismal failure, I would love to see them reformed to the point where I really had a choice to send them to PS or to HS but nevertheless do not think they should be outlawed. Can the same be said about the NEA and those who rail against HSing?

 

 

 

ps In all sincerity. Merry Christmas Mrs Mungo

[Janet in WA]

 

Had she been in school, it's possible, likely even, that she would still be alive. There is no way that level of neglect and harm could be hidden if she had been allowed to have regular contact with adults outside her family.

Had she been involved in a church, Girl Scouts, organized sports, a theater group, you name it, she would have been in regular contact with adults outside her famlily and she might still be alive. Why point to school attendance as the missing factor? (I think I know the answer to that question.)

[myfunnybunch]

Had she been involved in a church, Girl Scouts, organized sports, a theater group, you name it, she would have been in regular contact with adults outside her famlily and she might still be alive. Why point to school attendance as the missing factor? (I think I know the answer to that question.)

 

Keep in mind that I am supportive of homeschooling (obviously, since I homeschool my children) and that I both support and benefit from minimal oversight/government involvement.

 

Of course she would have had regular contact with those outside her family were she involved in any outside activity. But....the reason school attendance is pointed to as an element in this case, one that might have made a difference for this girl, is that school is mandatory. Scouts, theater and so forth are not. Parents can legally choose not to participate in a single extracurricular activity without any potential legal ramifications. Homeschooling laws allowed the parents to override the mandatory involvement legally, which allowed them to keep her home to abuse her undetected. With this child, had she been around any other adults there is no way that level of ongoing abuse could have been hidden--school participation of some sort is mandatory and in a school setting she would have been around adults who might have been able to help her--it is natural for people to look to what is familiar (and what is not) when trying to figure out how this could have happened. I think if we ignore that and try to blame ignorant attitudes or people/agencies wanting to make homeschooling illegal we're doing ourselves a disservice.

 

This is not my argument, understand. I think that poor child would have been abused by her parents no matter what and they just would have found another way to excuse her withdrawal from school. *I* don't think increased oversight is the answer, but there are people who do for the reasons I've just stated above. And it's important to carefully consider other viewpoints, particularly when posed by someone who is hurting from seeing something horrible, or when those arguments might be used to infringe on my rights to homeschool.

 

Cat

[melmichigan]

dlt

Edited December 26, 2009 by melmichigan

[ConnieB]

We have tried addressing it with her, multiple times. One of my biggest gripes with the other members of the family is that they say his extreme behavior is due to her poor parenting, and they dismiss it. I was there when a friend who works with autistic children observed him at a birthday party and asked me how long it had been since his diagnosis and what type of help he was getting. She was appalled that his mother had never had him evaluated because his behavior was so clearly indicative of autism.

 

But his mother is one of those who uses homeschooling as an excuse for her own extreme social anxiety disorder and other mental issues. The boy's father isn't in the picture and doesn't want to be. I have contemplated calling DFACS even though we are halfway across the country. (We used to live in the same town.) I'm sure she'll know it's me, and a few relatives, including my kids' grandmother, would probably never speak to us again. But I feel so sorry for the child.

 

I sprung the idea of calling DFACS off some other homeschoolers and they said it was none of my business; I needed to stay out of it. But I guess if it's still bothering me, I need to make the call, huh?

 

I absolutely agree that educational neglect happens in all settings. It was happening at the pricey private school my oldest DS went to for several years and one of the reasons we pulled him out (when we finally figured out what was going wrong.)

 

If it's still gnawing at you, then yes, you probably should follow your instincts and see if you can get help for this child. If the other family members choose not to speak to you that would be very very sad, but perhaps the help that might come to this child will soften their hearts toward you......or might be worth it to you if it meant the child would have a better life by getting help! :grouphug:

 

Abuse happens everywhere, look to the Catholic Church for a prime example of someplace that you'd think should be "safe" but isn't. Public schools report abuse but the news media doesn't see any except the most serious cases as newsworthy....but homeschooling is still something of a novelty or out of the box enough for the news media to glam onto. Churches with abuse get media attention because of the sensationalism.

[StartingOver]

If it's still gnawing at you, then yes, you probably should follow your instincts and see if you can get help for this child. If the other family members choose not to speak to you that would be very very sad, but perhaps the help that might come to this child will soften their hearts toward you......or might be worth it to you if it meant the child would have a better life by getting help! :grouphug:

 

:iagree: I have had to call on a family member, it was very hard. But my nephews are better off. No one in my family knew it was me, I called from a pay phone. Gave them all the info I had. I wanted them to get help. I wrote out what I wanted to say before and discussed it with my husband so we didn't give to many details, but enough to warrant and investigation.

Edited December 26, 2009 by alatexan68

[OnTheBrink]

How often do we see thread titles such as "oh my gosh, this is why I homeschool," harping on some news story that reflects poorly upon the public school? What's the difference?

 

The difference is, when something bad happens in a public school to children, it is a direct result of the educational environment. (If the child hadn't been in public school, he'd not have been shot at/had a knife pulled on/been sexually assaulted). If something bad happens to a child who is home schooled, homeschooling rarely is the cause or reason for the bad event. The logic doesn't follow that if a child had not been home schooled, they'd not have been abused, or that the abuse would have been noted and tracked and followed up with.

 

It's funny; when kids come from abusive homes and attend public schools, the educational environment is never questioned. When kids come from abusive homes and are home educated, home education is frequently named as the reason. Makes. No. Sense.

[StartingOver]

The difference is, when something bad happens in a public school to children, it is a direct result of the educational environment. (If the child hadn't been in public school, he'd not have been shot at/had a knife pulled on/been sexually assaulted). If something bad happens to a child who is home schooled, homeschooling rarely is the cause or reason for the bad event. The logic doesn't follow that if a child had not been home schooled, they'd not have been abused, or that the abuse would have been noted and tracked and followed up with.

 

It's funny; when kids come from abusive homes and attend public schools, the educational environment is never questioned. When kids come from abusive homes and are home educated, home education is frequently named as the reason. Makes. No. Sense.

:iagree: No sense at all.

[Harriet Vane]

The difference is, when something bad happens in a public school to children, it is a direct result of the educational environment. (If the child hadn't been in public school, he'd not have been shot at/had a knife pulled on/been sexually assaulted). If something bad happens to a child who is home schooled, homeschooling rarely is the cause or reason for the bad event. The logic doesn't follow that if a child had not been home schooled, they'd not have been abused, or that the abuse would have been noted and tracked and followed up with.

 

It's funny; when kids come from abusive homes and attend public schools, the educational environment is never questioned. When kids come from abusive homes and are home educated, home education is frequently named as the reason. Makes. No. Sense.

 

Very well put. Thank you for explaining it so clearly and logically.

[msjones]

The difference is, when something bad happens in a public school to children, it is a direct result of the educational environment. (If the child hadn't been in public school, he'd not have been shot at/had a knife pulled on/been sexually assaulted). If something bad happens to a child who is home schooled, homeschooling rarely is the cause or reason for the bad event. The logic doesn't follow that if a child had not been home schooled, they'd not have been abused, or that the abuse would have been noted and tracked and followed up with.

 

It's funny; when kids come from abusive homes and attend public schools, the educational environment is never questioned. When kids come from abusive homes and are home educated, home education is frequently named as the reason. Makes. No. Sense.

 

I disagree.

 

Kids in public schools who shoot or otherwise assault other kids don't do so as a direct result of their public school attendance. That makes no sense.

 

I'm not sure how you could say with any certainty that "when something bad happens in a public school to children, it is a direct result of the educational environment."

 

And, I'd say that the public educational environment is regularly questioned. Hence, the endless 'reform.'

[Laurie4b]

...the parents of that child had been homeschooled?

 

I wonder if we would even be having this discussion. Most likely these parents were educated in public schools. Apparently "the system" either served them poorly or did not identify the threat or both. Simply put, more government is not the answer to the breakdown of the family in our society.

 

Great question.

[Joanne]

Kids in public schools who shoot or otherwise assault other kids don't do so as a direct result of their public school attendance. That makes no sense.

 

I'm not sure how you could say with any certainty that "when something bad happens in a public school to children, it is a direct result of the educational environment."

 

At minimum, it's directly related to the setting; groups of kids gathered together 5 days a week.

 

And, yes, I think we also need to admit that abusers will use whatever they can to hide, justify or enable the abuse, even if that includes calling their choices homeschooling.