ElizabethB Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 My daughter finally understands and can do addition with renaming! After trying a bunch of things with little success, the distributive property worked! Reading Liping Ma's Knowing and Teaching Elementary Math gave me the idea. All we did today was math. (And, read Aesop's Fables, "but that's not really school, that's fun.") :party: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I'm halfway through this book right now, based on recommendations from these boards and I am LOVING it! That book is so rocking my world! I'm excited to feel my wheels turning and it can only make me a better teacher. I'm still reeling from the education I received by dissecting 123x645! :lol: Thanks for reporting your success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Great news!! Don't you love it when it all finally comes together after much perseverance :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 I'm halfway through this book right now, based on recommendations from these boards and I am LOVING it! That book is so rocking my world! I'm excited to feel my wheels turning and it can only make me a better teacher. I'm still reeling from the education I received by dissecting 123x645! :lol: I got quite an education from that, too. My husband, who is brilliant at math, looked at me like I was crazy when I told him things I hadn't fully understood before reading the book. (And I did well at math, have an M.S. in Industrial Engineering, and worked as a statistician in the Air Force for a while!) I was ready to outsource the teaching of addition with renaming to my husband if this didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Ma's book is absolutely fabulous. It should be required reading for teacher certification programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 My husband, who is brilliant at math, looked at me like I was crazy when I told him things I hadn't fully understood before reading the book. (And I did well at math, have an M.S. in Industrial Engineering, and worked as a statistician in the Air Force for a while!) I was ready to outsource the teaching of addition with renaming to my husband if this didn't work. :lol: Me too!!! He looked at me like an alien with three heads when I read aloud all the incredible stuff I learned from 123x645. He said, as nicely as he could muster, "You didn't know that?" Um, no. But I do now! :D My career path wasn't mathematical but I did get all the way through pre-calc in high school with straight As and apparently zero understanding! I majored in Social Work in college so short of despising statistics, math was easy as pie (you know, if you're talking about putting a pre-made pie into the oven because you really don't know the first thing about making pie). :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I just ordered this book because of Spycar. I can't wait to read it. I was a math minor (ops research major) and math comes easily to me, but I'm sure I'll learn so much from it...especially on the teaching front. I'm glad it helped you and your dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen the RD Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Ma's book is absolutely fabulous. It should be required reading for teacher certification programs. :iagree:Fabulous read. If math teachers really were required to do this, I wonder how much math education would change in this country?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think taking some math classes would do wonders for their ability to teach it. I'd like to personally have a word with the teacher who didn't know the formula for the perimeter of a rectangle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think elementary school teachers should be required to take a condensed math course that covers math from K through geometry that is devoted not only to getting skills in place, but also to how to teach math in a forward looking manner: what skills are we developing in 4th grade that are critical to success in algebra and geometry. Having taught levels K-geometry to my older son I am able to teach my younger son so much better, not because I have had experience teaching 4th grade math before, but because I know where I'm going. I would actually like to have the course go through calculus, but I think having it go through geometry would get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I'd like to personally have a word with the teacher who didn't know the formula for the perimeter of a rectangle. :lol: Yes, there are some examples in the book that I can't believe. I've said to DH several times that the book has given me even more reason to keep the kids out of PS forever. Most of the American teachers' errors were patently obvious, even to me. For me, the real value of the book is how the Chinese teachers expound on each lesson to the point of causing light bulb moments of true understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 : For me, the real value of the book is how the Chinese teachers expound on each lesson to the point of causing light bulb moments of true understanding. Yes, for me too. I have tutored algebra and knew how to do that for algebra, I didn't see the need or have any ideas about how to teach things multiple ways for basic math...I pretty much thought 5 + 5 = 10 and what more was there to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulubelle Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 My interest is piqued! I just requested it from the library! I love the library! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 My interest is piqued! I just requested it from the library! I love the library! :angry: My library doesn't have it. I guess I should break down and buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 :lol: Yes, there are some examples in the book that I can't believe. Alas, I believe them all. I just find it sad that such people are a) not only high school (or elementary school "graduates") but college graduates and b) haven't picked up on the very lessons they're teaching. This is not Jay Leno's Streetwalking or whatever it's called (I guess that's not the name!) where he goes and asks people questions on the spot and they never know them. These are math teachers!!! They should know this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) I just ordered this book because of Spycar. I can't wait to read it. I was a math minor (ops research major) and math comes easily to me, but I'm sure I'll learn so much from it...especially on the teaching front. I'm glad it helped you and your dd. I look forward to hearing what you think once you get a chance to read it. My daughter finally understands and can do addition with renaming! Elizabeth, you know Liping Ma's book made a huge impact on me too. It made it clear to me what it was in my own math education that was lacking, and helped me resolve to do better with my son's education. As others have mentioned, I'd like to get every math educator/parent to read this work as I believe it could help transform math education. It's great that it also got you over a specific hurdle with your daughter. Bill Edited November 20, 2009 by Spy Car Now I need to find a book on spellin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 :angry: My library doesn't have it. I guess I should break down and buy it. Do you have interlibrary loan? I requested it through that, but also put it on my Christmas list. I have a feeling it's a keeper. Alas, I believe them all. I just find it sad that such people are a) not only high school (or elementary school "graduates") but college graduates and b) haven't picked up on the very lessons they're teaching. This is not Jay Leno's Streetwalking or whatever it's called (I guess that's not the name!) where he goes and asks people questions on the spot and they never know them. These are math teachers!!! They should know this stuff. :lol: That made me laugh hard this morning! I needed that before I head out with the kiddos to fight Thanksgiving shoppers at the grocery store. I look forward to hearing what you think once you get a chance to read it. I'll let you know. Hopefully it comes in soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I know I should read it, but can y'all just expand a bit on it? What *did* you learn from 123X whatever it was? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Alas, I believe them all. I just find it sad that such people are a) not only high school (or elementary school "graduates") but college graduates and b) haven't picked up on the very lessons they're teaching. This is not Jay Leno's Streetwalking or whatever it's called (I guess that's not the name!) where he goes and asks people questions on the spot and they never know them. These are math teachers!!! They should know this stuff. They aren't math teachers; they are elementary school teachers (who happen to teach math). Many of them chose elementary school teaching as a career specifically because they lacked confidence in math. I spent 2 quarters in an elementary ed program. Many of my peers in my math methods class were not confident in long division and fractions. The stats say that education majors have the lowest SAT scores of all other majors, and that those teachers who did have higher SAT scores quit earlier than those with lower scores. I believe it. The culture of education school was anti-intellectual. My experience with these future teachers was one reason I initially chose to homeschool, before my children were born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 As others have mentioned, I'd like to get ever math educator/parent to read this work as I believe it could help transform math education. I still haven't finished the book, but I agree! I wish she (or someone) would write a follow-up book for parents/teachers with practical advice and ideas on how to proceed. Not that the book doesn't inspire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 We've been discussing teaching math over on the high school board, and the differences in the different countries. Can you explain how Liping Ma's book changed your thinking? Can you give some examples of enlightening things other than how the standard algorithms work or that US math teachers are often clueless about how? Were there other things that would help me teach math? Is it just about elementary math? We're currently doing NEM3 and NAM. -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I've had her book on my wishlist for a while. Well this thread made me finally want to pull the trigger, but now it looks like it's not in stock anymore because a new edition is do out in Jan. Our library doesn't carry it so I may go ahead and request an interlibrary loan to read until the new one comes out. (I been hesitating b/c our library makes such a big deal about interlibrary loans, makes me feel like their lending me diamonds from Harry Wintson :glare:) I can't wait to start reading this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 I've had her book on my wishlist for a while. Well this thread made me finally want to pull the trigger, but now it looks like it's not in stock anymore because a new edition is do out in Jan. A new version! I wonder if there will be any new material in it? I hope so, that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 We've been discussing teaching math over on the high school board, and the differences in the different countries. Can you explain how Liping Ma's book changed your thinking? Can you give some examples of enlightening things other than how the standard algorithms work or that US math teachers are often clueless about how? Were there other things that would help me teach math? Is it just about elementary math? We're currently doing NEM3 and NAM.-Nan Her book crystalized what was a "intuitive" understanding on my part that it is critically important to teach for a real understanding for mathematical reasoning, rather than simply how to work equations via the application of an only vaguely understood algorithm. If there is a deficiency in the book, aside from the fine examples of how people with various levels of knowledge understand (and teach) math, it remains largely "descriptive." So I walked away from reading it knowing the kind of goals I'd hold in teaching math, but without a prescription for precisely how to achieve that goal. This is not a practical book for home educators (or others) in how exactly to implement some of the obvious needs shown in the work. If you do to Amazon you can "preview" the book, and get a good feel for her critique, and the contrasts of varying levels of mathematical reasoning among teachers, and teaching methods. I can't say with certainty what you might gain reading her now. I gained a great deal. Part of that was a determination to teach with math programs that include mathematical reasoning as a core value. And you are (if you are using NEM and NAM) well along the road in using a math approach that is fully in line with what Liping Ma seems to advocate in the book. I suspect you will highly enjoy reading her work. And would likely feel "validated" knowing you taught your children in a wise fashion. And perhaps you'd be surprised a few times how deeply seemingly simple items are understood at times. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Is it just about elementary math? Yes. And the Chinese teachers in the book, by and large, don't have a college degree. Whereas all the American teachers do, and many have master's degrees. Liping Ma herself started teaching as a teenager, if memory serves, during the Cultural Revolution when she was shipped to the countryside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) And the Chinese teachers in the book, by and large, don't have a college degree. Whereas all the American teachers do, and many have master's degrees. Liping Ma herself started teaching as a teenager, if memory serves, during the Cultural Revolution when she was shipped to the countryside. I had a telephone conversation with Zalman Usiskin, who is the Director of the University of Chicago School Mathematics Project, and he commented that during the time of Dr Ma's study, education and teaching math as field of employment was still able to attract some of China's best and brightest. But (ironically) the math education that has in part fueled China's growth, has been undercut by the economic boom, as those who might once have been "teachers" are now pulled into the private economy where they can make a lot more money, and that China's math education is in a period of decline. Bill Edited November 21, 2009 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Perhaps. I programmed computers for awhile, though, so I'm not sure I'd be surprised. I know full well how complicated simple things can be. I will see once more if our library system has it. Last time I looked, they didn't. That was awhile ago, though. Yikes! Six or seven years ago perhpas? Wow! Thank you very much. -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 If anyone is done with their copy and wants to sell it to me for a fair price, that would be great! You can PM me! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 But (ironically) the math education that has in part fueled China's growth, has been undercut my the economic boom, as those who might once have been "teachers" are now pulled into the private economy where they can make a lot more money, and that China's math education is in a period of decline. Yes, communism / capitalism make a big difference, don't they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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