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Warning, MCT raves inside.


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I *love* this program, but my son (9) does not. Of couurse, as my oldest dd reminded me, he really doesn't like anything abouut school. Sigh.

 

I so wanted him to like this program! He loves to write (even though his mechanics are terrible) and reads at a very high level. He is actually getting a lot of the grammar portion. But he gives me a look of disgust when we get to an exercise such as "Write a 4 line poem using as many sub-stem words as possible. It's ok to make it funny!"

 

Today I got so frustrated with him that I dug out the Rod & Staff tomes to show him his "other" choice. Unfortunately, it didn't make much of an impression on him. I think after T-giving I or his father will have a heart-to-heart with him about attitude. Right now, a couple of my kids are sick so not much school is getting done.

 

jeri

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One observation: at the earliest level it is sort of a leap of faith; the curriculum does not seem at all intuitive -- odd in fact.

 

In my opinion, despite the "different" feel and tone of the materials, it is quite easy to use. Much easier in fact than many other programs I have used in the past.

 

 

Well, I looked at the program last night and it seems pretty straightforward to me and quite intuitive. I agree that once you look over the materials it appears to be quite easy to use. Here is the MCT slideshow that shows the implementation.

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I so wanted him to like this program! He loves to write (even though his mechanics are terrible) and reads at a very high level. He is actually getting a lot of the grammar portion. But he gives me a look of disgust when we get to an exercise such as "Write a 4 line poem using as many sub-stem words as possible. It's ok to make it funny!"

 

 

Ah, the sub poem. We hit a wall with that too. I had this sudden realization that my 8yo didn't really know what a poem was. Now, we've read lots of poems, had poetry teas, memorized and recited poetry. But what *is* a poem? What makes a poem a poem and not just a list of words on a page (which is what she wrote - she also is bright but not particularly motivated to work hard unless the mood strikes her, which could be factoring in). She knew one when she saw one, but not how to construct one from scratch - well, unless it was some kind of free verse, maybe.

 

So, I switched gears and did the Music of the Hemispheres instead. That was a huge hit - well, except when she was expected to write something down. But I decided not to push that part so much - after all, her older sisters hadn't written any poetry at that age. But she still learned a ton - alliteration, onomatopeia, end, internal and eye rhyme, all the different meters, and enjoyed doing it. She did write some poems, but not as many as the book recommended, especially when the assignments got more complex. My plan now is to go over the poems in the back of the book over the course of the year and talk about them and maybe start trying some simple "poetry recipes".

 

I would like to get back to Building Langauge and maybe tackle that sub poem. But if we don't, Caesar's English is a whole 'nother thing and we'll just jump in there later. I've heard lots of people say Building Langauge is their least favorite book, and I have to say I agree. Don't judge the series on the sub poem!

 

(although I know it works great for some kids - on the MCT yahoo group people have been posting the most clever root poems their kids have written. sigh.)

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I'm one of those people that looked at my friend's MCT materials and didn't see what the fuss was about.

 

I am very happy with CW. The grammar is applied; the writing is not formulaic but requires analysis and thought; vocabulary is built in to the program; poetry is available; classic lit is used for the assignments. What really sold me on CW was reading the long term plan; I really like where the program goes in the upper levels.

 

Has anyone who's using MCT used CW in the past? I'd love a comparison from someone who has used both.

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I'm one of those people that looked at my friend's MCT materials and didn't see what the fuss was about.

 

I am very happy with CW. The grammar is applied; the writing is not formulaic but requires analysis and thought; vocabulary is built in to the program; poetry is available; classic lit is used for the assignments. What really sold me on CW was reading the long term plan; I really like where the program goes in the upper levels.

 

Has anyone who's using MCT used CW in the past? I'd love a comparison from someone who has used both.

 

That's what I've been wondering as well.

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I'm one of those people that looked at my friend's MCT materials and didn't see what the fuss was about.

 

I am very happy with CW. The grammar is applied; the writing is not formulaic but requires analysis and thought; vocabulary is built in to the program; poetry is available; classic lit is used for the assignments. What really sold me on CW was reading the long term plan; I really like where the program goes in the upper levels.

 

Has anyone who's using MCT used CW in the past? I'd love a comparison from someone who has used both.

 

I have not used CW, but if you are happy with it... stick with it! If you looked at MCT and didn't what all the fuss is about, that's fine... maybe CW is YOUR perfect program. I think you should only look at other programs if you are unhappy with your current one, or looking to start from scratch and doing research on choices.

 

Again, the thing that is different about MCT is that it IS different from most other approaches. There are a LOT of similar programs out there, with minor differences... they follow generally the same model. It would be a matter of format, scripting (or lack of it), order of teaching, depth etc. Yet still essentially the same. It would be like choosing from different types of cookies.... all sorts of different flavors and styles, but essentially the same ingredients. Everyone loves cookies.

 

MCT is like a totally different dessert. Yes, it is still a dessert, but maybe an eclair, or a chocolate raspberry truffle cake.

 

um... what am I talking about! ? :D

 

I need to go find some chocolate....

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hi - can you tell me more about online G3? its a new-to-me thing....

 

tia,

ann

 

http://www.onlineg3.com/ is the home page.

 

http://www.onlineg3.com/mod/resource/view.php?id=162 is the list of all the classes.

 

Related to English they do the following:

Lightning Literature 7

Lightning Literature 8

Lightning Literature 9A - Mid-Late 19th Century American Literature

Lightning Literature 9B - Early-Mid 19th Century American Literature

 

Of the MCT materials they do:

Grammar Town/Caesar's English I

Grammar Voyage/Caesar's English II

Magic Lens/Word Within the Word 1A

Magic Lens/Word Within the Word 1B

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I wish I knew! I am getting a bit frustrated with my kids right now, and my husband is not helping with it either!

 

He is on the, "I love the idea of HSing, but it is not quite up to my standards" or whatever he means.

 

Basically, I am in a bit of a pickle with writing. I have held off on the formal writing until this year due to the fact that I have BOYS and a lefty and trying to pick my battles. So... my kids are well above skill level in comprehension, verbal, understanding and all abilities... but lower on the S K I L L part. The spelling and all that jazz. ugh. So, I need to have a lower level of "writing program" until that catches up... which I know will be soon, but it is just frustrating. This is the down side of waiting for fine motor skills to develop adequately before making kids write too much. So... we use 85% of all MCT's stuff, but I will implement his writing assignments later, when they are equal to the task. I did just buy a copy of "Write with the Best" but who knows. It is hard to get them to give me much output.

 

THAT is why I flounder with "writing programs". I am also a strange person. :D

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I wish I knew! I am getting a bit frustrated with my kids right now, and my husband is not helping with it either!

 

He is on the, "I love the idea of HSing, but it is not quite up to my standards" or whatever he means.

 

Basically, I am in a bit of a pickle with writing. I have held off on the formal writing until this year due to the fact that I have BOYS and a lefty and trying to pick my battles. So... my kids are well above skill level in comprehension, verbal, understanding and all abilities... but lower on the S K I L L part. The spelling and all that jazz. ugh. So, I need to have a lower level of "writing program" until that catches up... which I know will be soon, but it is just frustrating. This is the down side of waiting for fine motor skills to develop adequately before making kids write too much. So... we use 85% of all MCT's stuff, but I will implement his writing assignments later, when they are equal to the task. I did just buy a copy of "Write with the Best" but who knows. It is hard to get them to give me much output.

 

THAT is why I flounder with "writing programs". I am also a strange person. :D

 

Thanks! I am in much the same boat (even the strange person part :)). Apples and Pears is the only spelling program we have been able to deal with. I am a natural speller, so I am completely at a loss as to how to teach it. A&P works, is painless and intuitive. Box checked. Plus, my oldest has LD's and so A&P works as handwriting and dictation exercises for him. I am looking at writing programs (we fizzled with CW, but that is likely my fault) but only half-heartedly. I want to wait until my MCT order arrives and then decide. Bravewriter looks like something my dd would enjoy... hmph. I need to go get that chocolate now!

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Geesh! Leave you all alone on the MCT thread and you go crazy! And I have about 5 minutes to respond.

 

Colleen, you got to talk to MCT? I am green with envy. Yes, punctuation is covered, just not in the same manner as many of us are used to.

 

Cost? My stack of Easy Grammar, Sadlier Vocabulary, and IEW cost significantly more than MCT and you don't get the glorious poetry program.

 

Using another program for grammar? Then why do MCT except for poetry and even then...? Grammar is the foundation of everything MCT does. That's like taking the framing out of a house and hoping the siding does the trick in holding everything together.

 

As Michele said, MCT has a habit of making you reevaluate everything else you do. That's why every one of these threads deteriorates into Korin, myself, and several others wanting MCT caliber materials for all other subjects.

 

Philosophy for Young Thinkers? Perhaps Dragon Academy will weigh in here or we can start another thread. This isn't MCT but RFWP material.

 

Aaagh! Out of time and you will have added 5 more pages by the time I get back. Good!:lol:

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I'm one of those people that looked at my friend's MCT materials and didn't see what the fuss was about.

 

I am very happy with CW. The grammar is applied; the writing is not formulaic but requires analysis and thought; vocabulary is built in to the program; poetry is available; classic lit is used for the assignments. What really sold me on CW was reading the long term plan; I really like where the program goes in the upper levels.

 

Has anyone who's using MCT used CW in the past? I'd love a comparison from someone who has used both.

 

I have used both. I found CW to be convoluted and difficult to implement. I felt that we hadn't had enough grammar to tackle the hard sentences in CW effectively. Now if one were to use MCT practice books with CW we would have probably had more success; we used the suggested Harvey's. There was not enough practice and it jumped around too much. If I had a better understanding of grammar it would have gone better, but I was terribly confused myself at times (We did part of the program for older students). I don't want to put down CW, but when the teacher is learning along with the student, it's not an easy program to teach.

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I have used both. I found CW to be convoluted and difficult to implement. I felt that we hadn't had enough grammar to tackle the hard sentences in CW effectively. Now if one were to use MCT practice books with CW we would have probably had more success; we used the suggested Harvey's. There was not enough practice and it jumped around too much. If I had a better understanding of grammar it would have gone better, but I was terribly confused myself at times (We did part of the program for older students). I don't want to put down CW, but when the teacher is learning along with the student, it's not an easy program to teach.

 

Thanks for your answer. My oldest was in R&S 7 by the time we started using CW, so the grammar hasn't been an issue. But CW is still convoluted and confusing to teach. But I'm on my second round with Aesop/Homer for Older Beginners, so it's getting easier.

 

When I saw that MCT has 5 workbooks and 5 TM's for each level, I was overwhelmed just thinking about keeping track of where the books are!

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I have not used CW, but if you are happy with it... stick with it! If you looked at MCT and didn't what all the fuss is about, that's fine... maybe CW is YOUR perfect program. I think you should only look at other programs if you are unhappy with your current one, or looking to start from scratch and doing research on choices.

 

Again, the thing that is different about MCT is that it IS different from most other approaches. There are a LOT of similar programs out there, with minor differences... they follow generally the same model. It would be a matter of format, scripting (or lack of it), order of teaching, depth etc. Yet still essentially the same. It would be like choosing from different types of cookies.... all sorts of different flavors and styles, but essentially the same ingredients. Everyone loves cookies.

 

MCT is like a totally different dessert. Yes, it is still a dessert, but maybe an eclair, or a chocolate raspberry truffle cake.

 

um... what am I talking about! ? :D

 

I need to go find some chocolate....

 

The bolded part above is a good reminder. After 8 years of homeschooling, you'd think I'd be over the quest for the perfect curriculum.

 

And now I'm hungry... :001_smile:

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We have just done 2 days of Magic Lens, Word Within the Word, and I'm looking to implement Essay Voyage after Thanksgiving. So far so good. I can't say exactly what it is that attracts me to MCT materials except that I felt the same way about Singapore math and science as soon as I saw them. With Singapore materials I felt an automatic kinship because it teaches the way I was taught and the way I think. MCT seems to be following the same pattern.

 

I've backed up on the level for writing because I feel the younger boys are not ready for Advanced Academic writing. Much of the Essay Voyage content we covered last year, but I *LOVE* the way MCT explains things - it's concise and to the point (like Singapore math/science). It takes away the "fear factor" of writing. I can't wait to add in the Poetry unit.

 

The programs we've used in the past, and they are many and varied, have seemed to make grammar and writing out to be mental gymnastics with too many rules, too many exceptions, and too much verbiage for the boys to wrap their minds around. Nothing really connected. This seems to be going better - but with only 2 days down, the jury is still out (but I'm optimistic)

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We have just done 2 days of Magic Lens, Word Within the Word, and I'm looking to implement Essay Voyage after Thanksgiving. So far so good. I can't say exactly what it is that attracts me to MCT materials except that I felt the same way about Singapore math and science as soon as I saw them. With Singapore materials I felt an automatic kinship because it teaches the way I was taught and the way I think. MCT seems to be following the same pattern.

 

I've backed up on the level for writing because I feel the younger boys are not ready for Advanced Academic writing. Much of the Essay Voyage content we covered last year, but I *LOVE* the way MCT explains things - it's concise and to the point (like Singapore math/science). It takes away the "fear factor" of writing. I can't wait to add in the Poetry unit.

 

The programs we've used in the past, and they are many and varied, have seemed to make grammar and writing out to be mental gymnastics with too many rules, too many exceptions, and too much verbiage for the boys to wrap their minds around. Nothing really connected. This seems to be going better - but with only 2 days down, the jury is still out (but I'm optimistic)

 

I love, love, love Singapore Math. Wonder if that means I'd love MCT if I took the time to understand it? We're set for this year, but I might have to consider it later.

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Maybe I'm weird or something, but I really wish they would come up with an annotated teacher edition. I'm having a hard time just using the TM while the boys are working in their books. The Magic Lens TM doesn't have any of the reading that is in the student books. It's more expensive obviously and I think RFWP is trying to make things affordable for homeschoolers, but I'm ready to spend the money for the extra book.

 

I think one could get by with just the TM for the poetry unit and possibly the writing programs. But for the vocabulary and grammar I would really like a book that mirrors the student book.

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I think one could get by with just the TM for the poetry unit and possibly the writing programs. But for the vocabulary and grammar I would really like a book that mirrors the student book.

 

It's the elementary level where you need only the TM. For the secondary books, you need the TMs (there are special homeschool TMs, too).

 

MCT just came out with Academic Writing Level 2. He says the parent/homeschooler TM is going to be longer and have more hand-holding than the TM for schoolteachers - and be less expensive to boot.

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So, I just have to add to this conversation:

 

I was talking to a friend of mine IRL today and was telling her how I'd found this great new LA curriculum that I wanted to buy...

 

and she broke out with, "Sheesh, Bonnie!" :D

 

She doesn't approve so much of my curriculum junkiness. It's nice to come here and talk to kindred spirits who are also constantly shopping for the "perfect" curriculum. I think the fun is in the hunt.

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Would there be any benefit to the student manuals, for a visual learner for example?

 

At first I only got the TMs but with my latest couple of orders I also get the student books. It does make it easier to each have your own book. The person I talked to at RFWP mentioned that if you can afford it, get both in order to promote Socratic discussion, but if you can't afford it, just get the TM. I have found it is easier to get by with just the TM at the very early levels.

 

(The exception are the practice books; for those you need both TM and SM.)

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I'm one of those people that looked at my friend's MCT materials and didn't see what the fuss was about.

 

I am very happy with CW. The grammar is applied; the writing is not formulaic but requires analysis and thought; vocabulary is built in to the program; poetry is available; classic lit is used for the assignments. What really sold me on CW was reading the long term plan; I really like where the program goes in the upper levels.

 

Has anyone who's using MCT used CW in the past? I'd love a comparison from someone who has used both.

 

We just quit Homer a few weeks, maybe a month ago. It just got to be too much. Too much for me to plan and tweak. My dd rarely complains about any curriculum choices. She found Homer to be busy work. I know that it's not. What was happening, because she's pretty well versed in grammar from doing Latin, was we were skipping the grammar portions and just doing the writing. It was getting really annoying trying to plan which skill level for each section she would be doing. Some of the exercises seemed unnecessary, but then I didn't just want to do the last sections of the book.

 

I hear the next book is *much* better, so that's still a possibility later. But for now, MCT is enough and plenty.

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We just quit Homer a few weeks, maybe a month ago. It just got to be too much. Too much for me to plan and tweak. My dd rarely complains about any curriculum choices. She found Homer to be busy work. I know that it's not. What was happening, because she's pretty well versed in grammar from doing Latin, was we were skipping the grammar portions and just doing the writing. It was getting really annoying trying to plan which skill level for each section she would be doing. Some of the exercises seemed unnecessary, but then I didn't just want to do the last sections of the book.

 

I hear the next book is *much* better, so that's still a possibility later. But for now, MCT is enough and plenty.

I have been afraid to even try CW as many have said that it was difficult to plan and implement.
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Would there be any benefit to the student manuals, for a visual learner for example?

 

Not in my opinion. I either sit there and read along with my child (very enjoyable), or turn the book over to them (on a day when I'm super busy).

 

They are not teacher manuals as one is used to seeing ;)

 

You really only need the student books for the "Practice" series, because the TM has all of the sentences answers right there.

 

*I am talking about the elementary series - I have not used the secondary materials yet*

Edited by hscherger
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How much time does MCT take per day, and is that time all one-on-one?

 

It really looks like a great program, so I'm seriously considering it for next year, but one of my goals for next year is to chose some less teacher-intensive programs since I have a lot of little ones.

 

Another question...How can the kids use the TM along with you? Doesn't it have answers in it that the kids would see?

 

Thanks!

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to get there, you really need the teachers/student discussions vs completing a worksheet,

 

:iagree:

 

The level of sentences in most MCT books is very high, so I need to be there to read them aloud. Otherwise, my son doesn't quite get into the flow of them. It's a great lift up for ds and he does well once he sees how those sentences are read. The exception might be the child who is a strong reader and already encountering sentences from advanced literature. I'd still check, though, since often the advanced readers I work with are skimming a *lot.*

 

MCT gives a lot of support in terms of discussing words in those sentences, during the text reading or even in the Practice books (in the teacher manual).

 

Maybe after a while a child would get used to how to read these sentences himself, but I'd plan on parent involvement for a good while at first. The parent will be learning too, at least with the first child, so it's not time wasted!

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Didn't I read somewhere here that there are or will be home instructor guides for the intermediate levels that fit a homeschooler better then the Teacher's Guides at that level?

 

That would be fantastic! As I was working to put everything into a schedule I kept thinking that they really needed to have a homeschool mom (educating parent) as part of the development team for a homeschool teacher guide.

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:iagree:

 

The level of sentences in most MCT books is very high, so I need to be there to read them aloud. Otherwise, my son doesn't quite get into the flow of them. It's a great lift up for ds and he does well once he sees how those sentences are read. The exception might be the child who is a strong reader and already encountering sentences from advanced literature. I'd still check, though, since often the advanced readers I work with are skimming a *lot.*

 

MCT gives a lot of support in terms of discussing words in those sentences, during the text reading or even in the Practice books (in the teacher manual).

 

Maybe after a while a child would get used to how to read these sentences himself, but I'd plan on parent involvement for a good while at first. The parent will be learning too, at least with the first child, so it's not time wasted!

This sounds good, since we don't typically do read alouds. I could be spending more time on read alouds for the similar reasons as I would have for using a program that will expose DD to a richness of language.
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MCT looks in each home. For us, it's something we do together. The TM is basically the student book with teachers notes written in blue in the corners. My boys have yet to comment on the notes even being there. We use the white board along with our reading. This way we can look closer at a specific sentence in the story or they can analyze the sentence with out the help of the color coding in the book. I haven't timed it, we just don't do subjects for X amount of time or start grammar at ___. I would guess an average is 15-20 minutes, but we've also just been using the grammar book. We just finished the parts of speech, and will add another book this week. There are no daily lesson plans, so you set the pace. I will say that although this program is teacher intensive, there is no comparison between MCT and an independent program. My boys are absolutely showing a deeper understanding of English and to get there, you really need the teachers/student discussions vs completing a worksheet, but not seeing the connections and check grammar off for the day.

 

 

Thanks for the response! I know that the kids need one-on-one instruction time, especially in certain subjects. I will have to choose carefully which subjects I will spend my time on. Grammar and writing are certainly priorities!

 

I'm enjoying learning more about this program!

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How is this related to MCT? (sincerely curious question)

 

Michael Clay Thompson wrote a book called Classics in the Classroom. Maybe you are thinking it is another similarly named program?

 

ETA: It is a short guide detailing MCT's thoughts on how to teach the classics, followed by an extensive list of classics noting which book lists the classic is taken from. It is a handy reference.

Edited by Dana in OR
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Michael Clay Thompson wrote a book called Classics in the Classroom. Maybe you are thinking it is another similarly named program?

 

ETA: It is a short guide detailing MCT's thoughts on how to teach the classics, followed by an extensive list of classics noting which book lists the classic is taken from. It is a handy reference.

Thanks, that is what I needed to know. I haven't perused the website that much.:tongue_smilie:
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How is this related to MCT? (sincerely curious question)

 

I watched a slide show on the site (linked from this thread perhaps? It is all a jumble in my mind ) that showed the implementation sequence for the books. It indicated that one used the Classics book during the sequence to guide your child's reading for every level. The fact that it is not in the package makes it seem that the book is supplemental. I looked at the sample and it did seem like a guide and list for the parents/teacher.

 

(Sorry for the muddle; I am soooo sleepy! I should be in bed but this dang thread keeps drawing me in!)

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I watched a slide show on the site (linked from this thread perhaps? It is all a jumble in my mind ) that showed the implementation sequence for the books. It indicated that one used the Classics book during the sequence to guide your child's reading for every level. The fact that it is not in the package makes it seem that the book is supplemental. I looked at the sample and it did seem like a guide and list for the parents/teacher.

 

(Sorry for the muddle; I am soooo sleepy! I should be in bed but this dang thread keeps drawing me in!)

 

Yes, that's why I asked about it. I watched the slide show and noticed the recommendation for classic books to read along with the program. So I was wondering if most MCT users follow the lists in "Classics in the Classroom" or if they use other list recommendations.

 

I'm addicted to book lists. :tongue_smilie:

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