Heather in Neverland Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 So I am in the beginning stages of revamping the Social Studies curriculum at my school (I am the K-12 curriculum director AND the ES principal). As we were discussing possible changes, one teacher made the comment that he doesn't think 7th and 8th grade kids are "ready" or "mature enough" to "think deeply" about history. He mentioned how much his students like Liberty Kids videos and Schoolhouse Rock and how he doesn't want to turn them off from history by teachng them all the boring stuff. comments? What can we/should we expect out of 7th and 8th grade kids in terms of "thinking deeply" about History? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Certainly more than Liberty's Kids! I can see the entertainment value in it... but it was more at the educational level of my 7 year old than my 10 year old when we watched the series. (Oh, he still enjoyed it, but we added more challenging activities, books, and discussions for his actual history *education.*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Well, I think that there is a lot of room between 'dry and boring' and 'basically edutainment'. And in that room is some 'medium' deep thinking. I am thinking of how much logic stages students like to figure things out. I am thinking of how the critical thinking in US history books are great for this age, because the questions of how you know what you know are fascinating at that grade level. The whys matter at this age. The facts are important but the reasons make the subjects come alive, just as in the grammar stage the facts are important but the stories make the subjects come alive. I think that curricular choices that encourage deepish thinking about the way things fit together are appropriate for this age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenC Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 They can certainly think much more deeply than Liberty Kids or Schoolhouse Rock! By 7th grade, a student should be capable of an indepth discussion on just about any historical topic that they have studied. I can't imagine just watching videos aimed at much younger children. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedarmom Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Part of what makes history interesting is the deeper stuff. At that age they can look deeper into the why's and causes. Not as deep as high school, but deeper than Liberty Kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 People 'think deeply' in those areas which interest them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Teaching them all the boring stuff?? What boring stuff?? History is fascinating. It can be the absolute best subject. It's all about the crazy/stupid/brilliant things that people did. There's lots of blood and guts, lots of gold and jewels. Horrible deaths, tears-in-your-eyes success stories against all odds. Honestly, what can top it??! My 4 and 7 year old like Schoolhouse Rock. I sure hope we've moved on to something else by the time they're 12 and 13!! You just need to find an engaging curriculum and go from there. I have found that boys lean more to liking to hear about the battles and take-overs of kingdoms. Like the battle of Thermopylae where the 300 Spartans won against the gabillion Persians, or when a trusted king's advisor has the king killed and takes over. Girls tend to like to hear about how people lived day-to-day. What did they wear, what were their houses like, who had servants, what did the servants do? Exactly how rich or poor were they? What did they do with all their money or how did they manage to survive in their mud hut? Once you've made history interesting (which is already naturally is, with the right curriculum) then they'll be able to think deeply about it. I mean, hearing songs on Schoolhouse Rock can be entertaining, but it's fluff and I think that THAT'S boring. It's when you delve into the rights or wrongs of the American Revolution that it can be fascinating. Maybe it's the type of history. American history isn't as exciting as world history. Maybe that's why the teacher thinks it'll be boring? Maybe they need a good dose of world history, with all the mummies and Joan of Arcs and knights and gladiators. Edited November 11, 2009 by Garga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Look at the Beautiful Feet Guides for the Jr. High level. Plenty of in-depth thinking there and my ds12 loves it. It is his favorite subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am in vehement disagreement with your coworker. The resources he mentioned are for much younger children. Not only do I think middle schoolers can think deeply--I think they deeply desire for adults to recognize that they can do so and want to do so. I have found that middle schoolers often comfortably use high school materials. They may need a little more coaching through the material, but on the whole I have found that they relish working at a higher level. My experience with this includes not only middle-class children but also inner city middle schoolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in Austin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I've been using _Critical Thinking in US History_ in a small co-op with 10-11 year olds, and they love, love, love it. Obviously, US history won't work for you, but these kids seem to really enjoy getting into "deep" issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Oh my gosh, Schoolhouse Rocks for 8th graders??!?!?!? No wonder they don't think deeply, he is treating them like six year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Wow, my dd is in 4th grade and thinks deeply about alot of things, too much sometimes. Middle schoolers can certainly dig deeper into history, and they will enjoy it more if they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virginia Dawn Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I cringe when I see Liberty's kids. It is truly more entertainment than history, and far too modern in perspective. I certainly think 8th graders can handle more depth, especially if the curriculum is engaging. My 5th grader can handle more than Liberty's kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 You are certainly trying to change a lot quickly! Has the staff started revolting yet? lol :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 You are certainly trying to change a lot quickly! Has the staff started revolting yet? lol :lurk5: Good question! One of the main reasons they hired me (as opposed to other candidates) is because of my experience in curriculum design and assessment. They (meaning the board and admin) want a complete curriculum overhaul. So this means a lot of change and some people like change more than others. :tongue_smilie: But it is what I was hired to do so I guess I get to do the dirty work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Good question! One of the main reasons they hired me (as opposed to other candidates) is because of my experience in curriculum design and assessment. They (meaning the board and admin) want a complete curriculum overhaul. So this means a lot of change and some people like change more than others. :tongue_smilie: Little do they know about your secret curriculum selection council... The HIVE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) I agree that by teaching history in a boring manner, you can suck the life right out of it. Long, tedious lists of dates and miscellaneous facts that have no application in one's daily life would bring me to tears. However, history doesn't HAVE to be presented in this manner. We have had some of our best discussions regarding the motivations of various historical characters. DD is more interested in the flow of history (what happened next?) and as previously mentioned, the lifestyles. While she is responsible for some of the rote memorization, I don't dwell on it excessively. Our most successful history work has been done through a 4-H project called Living History. Each year dd selects a time period to study and develops a character from that time she will portray. They are judged on 1)character development, 2)costuming, and 3)learning at least one skill that the character would have known how to perform. This year dd will be doing a Hopewell Indian girl living on the Appalachian plateau around the year 200AD. In the two weeks we have been working on this, she has learned how to make cordage from natural materials growing around us and how to transform this into baskets and also how the various parts of a deer were used. (We now have hooves drying out in the cab of our infrequently used farm truck and are preparing to try tanning a deer hide next week. We are also drying some bone material to use to make needles and scrapers.) December will be learning how to start fires using sticks. Each month will have its various skills to attempt and hopefully master. If she does well at the county-level judging, she will have the opportunity to participate in statewide judging at the State Fair. Her previous characters were an Irish immigrant girl in 1841 (she learned an adorable accent from watching the Jakers cartoons!), the daughter of a squatter family on the Ohio frontier in 1799, and a farm girl on the eve of the Civil War in 1860. She learned a great deal from each of these characterizations and IMO, asked many questions that illustrated "deep thinking". Things about the political environment and how federal legislation affected local life, why injustice is so often permitted to continue unchallenged, issues surrounding racism and prejudice. Right now she is dealing with the issues of how skewed history can be when documented by the conquorers, of knowledgeable speculation versus archaeological provenance and which should be considered to be the most accurate, the impact of timeless forms of communication, and how a tremendously advanced civilization involving hundreds of thousands of people could vanish leaving so little evidence behind. Deep thinking in my book. BTW, she is 11 and we are doing 6th grade. Edited November 12, 2009 by hillfarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Little do they know about your secret curriculum selection council... The HIVE! I KNOW!!!! :D Even after my college work in curriculum at the graduate level, I still find BETTER curriculum advice here! I can get opinions from textbook writers or I can actually go to the people who are in the trenches...people who are trying out all different kinds of curricula for all different reasons at all different ages, then posting about the good, the bad, the ugly... You can't beat it for anecdotal evidence! I love this board!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Absolutely, they can think deeply. In fact I think it is the overuse of edutainment that has squelched that. We like edutainment, but it's like candy to us. It's not a substitute for brain food! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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