jeri Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I read through most of the earlier thread about not celebrating Christmas, and although I don't agree with everything, I think I understand and respect these decisions. But birthdays leave me a little more unclear. Aren't birthdays to sort of honor the one who turned a year older? Certainly not to worship that person, but just to say, "congrats for turning X years old"? My youngest turned six today and we don't do a big party or anything like that. We went out to eat (a special treat for us), came home to have cake and sing happy birthday, and gave him a bike (which he needed anyway). We just look at it as a milestone that our kids make. (Now as for dh and me, it's a different story! We have cake, but that's only at our kids' insistence! Otherwise we try to let it pass by without anyone knowing!) So how does this conflict with being a Christian? jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Jeri, It's HARD to discuss these things especially at that time. For example, it's a lot easier to talk about Christmas in April! LOL I don't want to offend you so discussing this on your child's birthday is kinda hard... Anyway, if you looked at the Christmas thread, you probably saw some of the reasoning about birthdays. There are a few reasons. 1) All scripture is there for a reason. The ONLY two birthday accounts are a) of non-Christians and b) where HORRIBLE things happened. If it were okay for us to do birthdays, just not beheadings, God could have included other accounts so we would know. He did that in other cases, just not this one. 2) Scripture talks about that a person's birth isn't particularly important, but that it is what the person does as well as "his name at death" that matters. Really, it's YOUR doing that he made it to 6, not his :D I'm POSITIVE you have fond thoughts of your kiddos all the time. You probably remember the birth more often than just on their bdays, right? You could go out to a special lunch FOR that child any day, right? You could give him a bike whenever you wanted instead of waiting til a certain day. Note from dd: and EVERYday is a milestone :) Anyway, so that is some of the reasoning. You have to decide for yourself if it is enough to make you rethink doing birthdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I've never over-thought this birthday thing, but there are some things that really bug me about birthdays and have made me keep them toned down... I have a daughter who shares the same birthday with two other children that have been friends over the years. She has been invited to the other's birthday parties and we've taken a gift. They know that it is also dd's birthday, but because we didn't have a "party", they did not offer a gift to my dd. To me, this was hurtful. We gave a gift and went because we are friends. If my dd is their friend and they know it's her birthday, why not give a gift in exchange? It annoys me to see big birthday parties with piles of gifts and the child just tears through them, etc., etc. There is usually very little regard to who gave the gift and thanks for them. I always wanted to be different than this for my children. We raised our children not doing birthday parties for those two reasons... basically because if we ask people to come to a birthday celebration, they are basically being asked to give a gift to my child and I find that annoying... give my child a gift because you love my child and want to share something special... I don't want to like feeling like I have to purchase a gift for someone else's child, either. I have tried inviting friends and specifying "please do not bring a gift", but that usually does not happen. Anyway, this is long and rambling, without scripture... I have a severe head cold and that's just the way it is... I like to keep birthday celebrations to family events - play games that we ordinarily do not play, go somewhere special, etc. and keep it to family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Usually, it's people who believe in celebrating no days above any others who don't do birthdays--and super-traditional folks. (Birthdays are a Victorian celebration.) > If it were okay for us to do birthdays, just not beheadings, God could have included other accounts so we would know. There are soooooooooo many things that could be said to that. I think my tongue has a hole in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeri Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 does that mean that one should never be "honored" (for lack of a better word) at work, at Scouts, at sports, etc. I mean none of these were ever talked about in the Bible, but I don't see anything wrong with honoring accomplishments. Or is that the key word--birthdays are not accomplishments? jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeri Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 I agree with you about birthdays! I find birthdays with people outside the immediate family to be a big pain! Actually, we never really did blow-out birthdays, but when my oldest was 8 we adopted a girl from Ukraine who was about to turn 8. Well, becasue she didn't know anyone, and had no real history with anyone at the time, we started a new tradition (Thanks to Bethinny, a former WTM-er!) Instead of having a party for each child, we plan a day trip that the whole family can do. (Last year our family went to West Point, to the Statue of Liberty, to a wild animal park, etc.) We have cake at the end of the day and give a couple of gifts. And that is it! Now that we have added two more kids to our family to bring our kid number to six, I know that this is the best way for us. In addition, before we moved to Germany last year, we annually hosted a "big birthday bash" where we invited families and had lots to eat and do--just sort of a big party with actually nothing to do with anyone's birthday. We asked for no gifts but made a big box available for whatever we were collecting at the time for orphanage donations (one year it was socks, one year crafting supplies, etc.) then we shipped those off as out birthday "gift." My kids really want to start doing this again since it was so much fun to plan and host, but now we are without a strong network in Germany :( But I digress from my original post . . . jeri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 If it were okay for us to do birthdays, just not beheadings, God could have included other accounts so we would know. Following that logic, it's not ok to do anything that isn't included in the bible? if there's not a biblical example then it's not ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 does that mean that one should never be "honored" (for lack of a better word) at work, at Scouts, at sports, etc. I mean none of these were ever talked about in the Bible, but I don't see anything wrong with honoring accomplishments. Or is that the key word--birthdays are not accomplishments? jeri I think you're missing the point. With those other things you are rewarding behavior. I'm not sure I would say "honoring" a person, so much as observing and rewarding what they have done. At work you are rewarded for going above and beyond, NOT rewarded for WHO you are, iykwIm. I celebrate birthdays, but I do understand why some people don't. It's as if to say, WOW you survived another year! Also, it elevates the individual (I think) to a position above what we are supposed to accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Aren't birthdays to sort of honor the one who turned a year older? Certainly not to worship that person, but just to say, "congrats for turning X years old"? We don't have religious reasons for it. As a friend of mine said, "Why do you get a party just for being born. Shouldn't your mother get the presents?" :D We just add it to the list of things we do differently in an attempt to make sure our dc are focused on others above themselves. (I'm not saying that birthday celebrations will create a selfish child.) My parents are ery big on holidays, so we have them (with my siblings) over for dc's birthdays and they give them gifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 So do they not celebrate wedding anniversaries either? Seems the same thing to me and I don't remember one ever being mentioned in Scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I wish I could fully participate in this thread, but I'm on my out for a Scout evening, Court of Honor, in fact! Anyways, we have mildly celebrated b-days for some time. It's not necessarily having the special day I have issue with, but moreso how our society has made it such an important event. Some of our thinking is: 1) the big party deal makes it "All about me." Not what we think is really Christlike or Christ serving. We try to teach the kiddos to die to themselves and not encourage me! me! me! 2) Have you ever noticed how many people open the gifts and everyone is called to ooh and aahhh about what the presents are? We find this makes "stuff" seem awfully important. Treasures aren't what Christ was about either, so that kinda stuffs that for us. (no pun intended, but it did work, huh?) 3) Along with the ooohhs and aaahhhs comes this falsity...there is always something you like best, but Mom encourages you to give this neutral tone so you don't hurt other people's feelings. Seem rather disingenuous and I don't want to encourage that either. 4) How angry a person can become when their "loved one" misses the date...really, I've seen some ugly fights about this. Seriously. It's just another day, sure it feels nice to hear happy b-day, but does it actually mean (s)he doesn't love or respect you b/c they missed/forget/didn't mention your b-day? 5) We find it perpetuates an attitude of expectation. "Grandma will send me $20 on my b-day. She always does." "Billy, Bobby, and Joey are coming to my party, that's 3 presents." Not really how I want my family to think. 6) Many parents get very stressed out about performance issues and many spend money they don't have on the party. Not worth any of it. 7)Goody bags. Ummmm...it's odd to me that a kiddo expects (and parents feel the heat) to provide some further reward (usually junk) for coming to the celebration. What happened to memories of a great time? 8)Buying gifts to compensate for siblings. So, those are some reasons we don't go hog wild for birthdays. We allow our children to choose their favorite meal for dinner and we have a dinner celebration in honor of our person. We retell their birth story and share a fond memory of that person. They sometimes get something special (under $20) like a Bionicle they were already saving for or a new apron for the child that loves to cook. Nothing big, but something unique to that person. We don't wrap it, but go to the store, buy it, and privately give it to them. We always tell them their birth was God's way of blessing us, and we thank Him for them daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 BTW, we don't do birthday parties. Never have (neither of us grew up with that tradition). But we do acknowledge what we would consider the anniversary of our child's entrance into our family. We honor the fact that God created this child and has a plan for their life. We give them a yearly blessing and gift. I understand how others would feel differently. In this narcissistic world it makes a lot of sense to downplay the "me-me-me" stuff. I guess I just don't seen the need to throw the baby out with the bathwater unless it's a personal conviction. I'm a bit confused by the idea that one shouldn't do it because a positive example of it is not in Scripture. I wonder too what would be left to celebrate? No Christmas. No Easter. No birthdays. Are there any holidays or special days that you celebrate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 We don't have religious reasons for it. As a friend of mine said, "Why do you get a party just for being born. Shouldn't your mother get the presents?" :D Hee hee. I like that. We of course acknowledge birthdays. I mean, they exist. LOL. And we tell our children when they've turned another year older. It is always exciting to a kid. If you think about it the Israelites kept excellent records so clearly they knew their birthdays. It is just the celebration, the party, the elevating of one person for no real accomplishment...and the Bible's mentioning of it only in unfavorable terms. And that early Christians didn't celebrate birthdays. I have never celebrated birthdays. Well, I think my last one was when I was 3 but I don't recall it. However, for some insane reason if I ever hear some one's birthday I can NEVER forget it. Mom says I get that from my Grandma who knew all her 11 siblings birthdates, all their children, all her own children/grandchildren great grandchildren. I still remember the bd of a boy I knew in 9th grade. April 28th. Weird huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 So do they not celebrate wedding anniversaries either? Seems the same thing to me and I don't remember one ever being mentioned in Scripture. Don't know who 'they' are, but I celebrate weddign anniversaries. That is a celebration of a marriage, not people, and marriage is God's arrangement. As with any celebration, for any reason, it needs to remain modest and wholesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Following that logic, it's not ok to do anything that isn't included in the bible? if there's not a biblical example then it's not ok? Speaking for myself not Pam, I'd say that is only one element of it. There IS a biblical example of birthday celebrations and it is a very ugly one. And early Christians did not celebrate birthdays--it seems to be another thing only the pagans did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Sorry, "they" was a poor choice of words but I couldn't remember who had started the thread and whether they were asking those who didn't celebrate or what. Forgive the pronoun usage. That is a celebration of a marriage, not people, and marriage is God's arrangement. Okay, I can understand that. Marriage is definitely a God-ordained institution and worthy of celebration. I guess I just always put birth in the a "God's arrangement" type category, too. Especially since it took years for us to be blessed with our children. I feel like offering up a yearly song of thanksgiving at the fact that God has blessed our family with a heritage of children. I agree with you 100% that in this society worship to Creator God for our children easily morphs into worship of created child. As with any celebration, for any reason, it needs to remain modest and wholesome. Absolutely could not agree more. I'm just curious now whether you (or others) celebrate any recognized holiday? Do you create your own special days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I wonder too what would be left to celebrate? No Christmas. No Easter. No birthdays. Are there any holidays or special days that you celebrate? We do celebrate (for lack of better word because it isn't a party atmosphere, but a very special day) the death of Christ. That is the only religious holiday we keep. I think the rest of your question has to do with 'do y'all have any fun?' :) Let me assure you we do. We have parties. We give gifts. We laugh, we dance, we eat, we drink and we enjoy life. Many people have mentioned celebrating Christmas for their families or for the tradition. Tradition IS important to holding families together. We have traditions. We just do our best to make sure those traditions are not tied up with things that we believe displease God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Okay, I can understand that. Marriage is definitely a God-ordained institution and worthy of celebration. I guess I just always put birth in the a "God's arrangement" type category, too. Especially since it took years for us to be blessed with our children. I feel like offering up a yearly song of thanksgiving at the fact that God has blessed our family with a heritage of children. I agree with you 100% that in this society worship to Creator God for our children easily morphs into worship of created child. Well said. Nodding head. Absolutely could not agree more. I'm just curious now whether you (or others) celebrate any recognized holiday? Do you create your own special days? In my FOO, our special days were the 3 times a year we gathered in larger groups for conventions and assemblies. When I was a kid it was 2 days in the spring, 4 or 5 in the summer and 2 more in the fall. It is now 1/3/2. Anyway, those were always big deals to my family. We got new clothes. Mom saved all year for them, because for us it always involved staying in a hotel hours from home. Usually the hotel had a pool and after sessions we would gather there with friends and meet new friends from other congregations. We would go out to eat which was a rarity for most people when I was young. (in my small southern town anyway). Beyond that my childhood is FILLED with memories of gatherings. Usually with the muscians we knew far and wide coming together to play and us kids in and out of the house, running around playing tag in the dark, catching fireflies, going in for dessert. Being asked to sing by one of the grown ups and then back out to play. And my mom--wow. She had kids at her house constantly doing something. She drove us all over creation to swim, and hike and meet new people. Sigh. I'm getting weepy thinking about my wonderful childhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Let me try to be very polite. I am not trying to embarass or cause discomfort. Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate either birthdays or Christmas and have various other restrictions. Not only do most Christians celebrate Christmas, birthdays and other special events like anniversaries, many do not view JW as Christians. That certainly has been the teaching at Presbyterian, Methodist, and Baptist churches I have attended. At all those churches, everyone was celebrating Christmas and we made big deals of some birthdays (100 for example) and some anniversaries (25, 50, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Let me try to be very polite. I am not trying to embarass or cause discomfort. Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate either birthdays or Christmas and have various other restrictions. Not only do most Christians celebrate Christmas, birthdays and other special events like anniversaries, many do not view JW as Christians. That certainly has been the teaching at Presbyterian, Methodist, and Baptist churches I have attended. At all those churches, everyone was celebrating Christmas and we made big deals of some birthdays (100 for example) and some anniversaries (25, 50, etc). Um, I'm not a JW, and I don't 'celebrate' Christmas. And I could give two hoots about celebrating my birthday. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Let me try to be very polite. I am not trying to embarass or cause discomfort. Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate either birthdays or Christmas and have various other restrictions. Who do you think you might embarass or cause discomfort to? JWs are well aware of their own beliefs and life choices. Would someone else be uncomfortable to learn of those choices and beliefs? :confused: Not only do most Christians celebrate Christmas, birthdays and other special events like anniversaries, many do not view JW as Christians. That certainly has been the teaching at Presbyterian, Methodist, and Baptist churches I have attended. At all those churches, everyone was celebrating Christmas and we made big deals of some birthdays (100 for example) and some anniversaries (25, 50, etc). Your entire paragraph above amuses me. Why do all those religions concern themselves with whether or not JWs are Christians or not? And let me assure you JWs consider themselves Christian. They aren't much concerned with how other religions view them. Their main goal is to worship God the way God wants to be worshipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I hardly think it is just JW's. I know of quite a few christians who are choosing to go back to celebrating only the Jewish feasts instead of Christmas & Easter. Mennonites don't celebrate national holidays (right?). I wonder if they celebrate birthdays. I find it interesting to think about. My husband always has a few children in his public school class who don't celebrate holidays and this gives us a greater understanding of why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayfromcleveland Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Our Christian family celebrates birthdays since this is nice, happy American tradition, and I see no harm in allowing our kids to have a special day with cake and presents. We do not celebrate Halloween since we deem it a commemoration of death and evil. We do however celebrate Christmas and Easter and see no harm in these feasts, though the common seasonal "fakelore" alleges these most solemn traditional feasts of Christianity find their origins in Babylonian paganism, in an age-old conspiracy of "Nimrod" and the Emperor Constantine. This "urban legend" was dreamed up in the mid-1800s by Bishop Hislop, author of "Two Babylons," which is discredited as unsupported and unhistorical. I've spent years studying primary historical sources and the results are in articles at this link: http://www.classicalastronomy.com/pagan.asp As for birthdays, the link below mentions the purported pagan origins of our typical American birthday celebration: http://www.classicalastronomy.com/news/anmviewer.asp?a=213&z=33 In order to completely escape the influence of our pagan heritage, one would have to take one's Bible to a desert island and live in a cave. Those who are troubled by pagan influences can find them in even most innocent traditions. It's been reported that even contemporary birthday celebrations are drawn from the ancient pagan rites of the moon goddess Artemis (Diana of the Ephesians, Acts 19), with heathen wish-making and round, candle-covered cakes symbolizing the Moon. One could argue that the LORD never commanded us to celebrate our birthdays. But the Bible does not include exhaustive instructions for every little thing that people do or don't do. The LORD gave us a mind and a conscience for discerning, so as to "abstain from every appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22) To be free of all taint, where exactly does one draw the line? Should we now deny our children a joyous birthday party? It seems that we can become superstitious and oppress ourselves by finding evil under every rock. Such confusion surely pleases our Enemy moreso than our Father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Following that logic, it's not ok to do anything that isn't included in the bible? if there's not a biblical example then it's not ok? The issue in this case is that it IS included in the Bible, just negatively. If it had positive AND negative examples, then it'd be obviously okay. But what IS included is that it was only those NOT following God and really bad things happened. A good deal of what we do these days are not mentioned at all. To me that isn't a big deal. And then there are the other considerations in both the scriptures and just life as mentioned in this thread. For me, any one or two of those things would probably be enough to steer clear of them. Someone else may need the whole group of reasoning. Others don't care to be swayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jami Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 One could argue that the LORD never commanded us to celebrate our birthdays. But the Bible does not include exhaustive instructions for every little thing that people do or don't do. The LORD gave us a mind and a conscience for discerning, so as to "abstain from every appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22) To be free of all taint, where exactly does one draw the line? Should we now deny our children a joyous birthday party? It seems that we can become superstitious and oppress ourselves by finding evil under every rock. Such confusion surely pleases our Enemy moreso than our Father. [/indent] :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 . And early Christians did not celebrate birthdays--it seems to be another thing only the pagans did. I knew I came by my Party Down nature naturally. ;) lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 So do they not celebrate wedding anniversaries either? Seems the same thing to me and I don't remember one ever being mentioned in Scripture. We celebrate our wedding anniversary as a family. It is one of the few things we do celebrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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