Would you consider yourself to have a strong immune system?

[Tree House Academy]

And if so...have you had swine flu yet?

 

I am really starting to research this becasuse both my son and I have incredibly strong immune systems. By this, I mean we are NEVER sick. Ever. It has been 18 months for me and over 2 years for him. With all the talk of cytokine storm, I am a bit concerned.

 

Perry or anyone else...does a robust immune system guarantee a cytokine storm? If not, what sets apart the ones who "get it" from the ones who do not?

[kalanamak]

I believe I do, and I think I had it in May. It was the second recognizable flu in my life. Not near as bad as the measles when I was 26. :)

[Tree House Academy]

Measles...at 26! EEP!

 

I have had one flu in my life up to this point. I was 17 and truly should have died! I had pneumonia to the point where my fevers were at 105 degrees and didn't come down with meds, but I refused to go to the doctor. Since then, my immune system has been crazy strong. My ex husband (older son's dad) was the same way and now older son is too. He also had a flu when he was 4 that kicked his butt, but when he rebounded, his immune system was stronger than ever too. We both had the Fujan strain, I think. At least, that is the one listed as the popular strain in the years we each had it. Kinf of freaky. When he got it, I was his round the clock caregiver and I never go so much as a sniffle. Dh and ds6 (who was 2 mos at the time) got it, but not nearly as bad as ds10.

[mktkcb]

I believe I have a pretty good one. I spent many years growing up in Africa around who knows how many strange diseases, so I like to think that stands me in pretty good stead :o). I know I did have some of the normal childhood diseases. Occasional flu. Never got chicken pox, but found out via bloodwork that I'm immune to that. I remember one bad cold*thing* I had in high school while at boarding school. I don't remember a fever, but horrible cough. Probably bad bronchitis, but I never took anything or got myself looked at. I'm pretty stubborn, and don't like doctors. It took awhile to get over. I literally had nothing of that severity flu or otherwise until maybe 5 years ago when a bad strain was going around. I had spiking fevers for over a week, and wasn't normal for over a month, but it never turned into pneumonia, and I never took anything other than advil and cough medicine. A couple months ago everyone in my family got the cold from hell. Don't think it was flu because there was no fever or body aches etc. Just horrible cough. Hacking. *horrible*. But we weathered it. I get the occasional cold. I feel like I'm pretty resiliant, & my body seems to fight things off just fine on it's own. I've taken antibiotics only 1 time since childhood. That was many years ago when I had a root canal done. I've also wondered about this cytokine storm thing, but don't obsess over it, I guess.

[swellmomma]

I have a strong immune system. And no I have not had swine flu. The last time I was really sick was when I was pg with dd2. While battling morning sickness I caught a stomach bug and was sicker than sick. Otherwise I have been healthy ever since. I have never been one though to catch every little bug, I was born with the chicken pox which made my immune system step up immediately, had shingles at 9, had some weird german named thing when I was 7 that mimicked leukemia, even worked in daycare for nearly 20 years without getting sick very often, though it certainly exposed me to enough things to make me immune to them. The only think I ever struggled with was bronchitis my 9th grade year, I had it 4 times that school year and mono when I was 18.

 

The kids immune systems vary, they catch the common cold often enough but other things not so much. My non-vax'd kid is healthier than the rest and has only had 1 minor cold her whole life(she is only 2 after all). I think their immune systems are good but not at strong as mine overall.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I don't have a strong immune system, but I haven't had the flu. However, we think my 14-year-old nephew, who does have a strong immune system, had swine flu. His temperature got up to around 106 degrees F, and he was very sick. This was over a month ago, and he is still not feeling well. He comes home from school each day and takes a nap (something he has never done in the past). He has even been going to sleep many mornings on the way to school. He was never tested to confirm swine flu or any other flu, but he did test negative for mono; whatever he had/has, I hope he gets much better soon.

[ElizabethB]

My immune system goes around looking for food and dust mites and pollen to destroy.

 

I hardly ever get sick...except when I was mandated to get the flu shot when I was in the military, that guaranteed a mild 2 day sickness, so I avoided the flu shot once I didn't have to get it.

 

Now, with little tiny people sticking their fingers in my mouth, I occasionally get sick.

 

The cytokine storm thing worries me, too, I'll probably get this flu shot, I'll take a mild 2 day sickness over a cytokine storm.

[Peela]

I had a mild cold at this time last year (southern hemishpere, opposite seasons to you), and this week I have come down with my first illness since then. I suspect it was the swine flu- much worse than a normal cold and supposedly the swine flu is the common flu around. However, I had the luxury of taking my herbs, keeping my diet good (vegetable soup, toast, fruit), lots of fluids (more than normal) and RESTING, and this is Day 5 and I am 80% better. For 3 days, I was pretty sick and hardly did anything but the essentials.

 

I do think there are benefits to getting a cold now and then. It helps your immune system. But I dont get sick often and when I do, I just take good care. If I had had to go to work or do something strenuous in the last 3 days...well, I could have got more seriously sick. It hurt to breathe, I wondered if you could get pneumonia so quickly. But today, after REST, I only have a residue, a mild cough.

[silvermine]

My immune system is quite strong... as long as it's fighting off grass pollen, dust mites, wheat, and milk. Otherwise, it lets any old germ traipse in and settle in for a while. ;)

 

I think we might have had a house full of swine flu a few months ago. I had a little fever and malaise, but my daughter was sick for 7-10 days and her fever was up to 104+ a few times, and she was just miserable. And she usually doesn't get miserable when she's sick. My son had a little fever and tiredness and stuff, but I am pretty sure he's had *other* flus (and flu shots) before, which maybe gave him some immunity. But he tends to not get very sick with anything.

[Sputterduck]

I have a terrible immune system (though it's far better than it used to be), but no flu yet.

[fivetails]

Myself ~ ha. I catch everything that come my way & sometimes stuff people just *think* about having. :tongue_smilie:

 

dh ~ slightly better immune system.. he catches a fair bit, but fights it off quickly.

 

dd12 ~ average.. catches colds & such, but very rarely anything like a stomach bug or flu...

 

ds10 ~ has a kick-arse immune system. Seriously - the whole house could be laid flat and this kid, IF he catches it at all, gets sick for a few hours. I have a theory about this... ds10 is blind, among other things, which has meant that his hands have been on *everything* for years now - I'm betting it's his exposure to all manner of germs that has built his immune system into what it seems to be.

 

As to whether we've had it - I don't know. I wrote about our experience back in the Spring here ..might have been...might not have been.

[Peek a Boo]

I have a pretty strong immune system. I might get a few sniffles, mild cough, or sinus headache occasionally, but I've only once been floored w/ a sickness that was probably the flu --that was a decade ago. My oldest two and dh had it during the week, then I got sick that weekend. Glad it waited till i was done caring for them ;)

 

No, we have NOT had swine flu [or any flu] since. We don't do flu shots or a regular vax schedule.

 

from what i've read, the cytokine storm response itself isn't fully understood, so i'm not hedging any bets on theories about it.

[cillakat]

Dont' be concerned:) I posted a great document on what you can do to dampen down excessive cytokine activity (natural ACE inhibitors and cytokine reducers).....just search for it....maybe search H1N1.

 

Also, the people really at risk are ones with underlying lung issues and weight issues. I have both. I did get H1N1. I did get on tamiflu w/in 2 days. My symptoms are seriously seriously mild - no fever.....normal activities at home. I self quarantined for a while (3-4 days) but am out and about now. I'm not coughing any more than I normally do (allergies, maybe GERD etc) and I feel fine. A teeeeeensy bit achey. A teeeeensy bit 'off'. But it's so minimal that I'm sure no one else would notice.

 

On the 'never' sick front: I wouldn't classify 18 mos since the last illness as 'never' sick. That's at least once every 18 mos (if that's a pattern for you). Never sick to me means once every five to 10 years. DH has been sick One Time in the 13 years that we've been together. One time. It's amazing.

 

I consider my immune system to be moderate.....I get something mild about 2x per year but it's so mild that my normal activity continues.. I treat it with high dose A, D, zinc, zicam etc and it's all good. However, what comes after the ubermild viral thing is for me, very serious. It almost always turns into pneumonia. That's not about immune function but probably about anatomical inflammatory changes that occured over time in my lungs b/c my dad was a 3.5 pack per day smoker until I was 8 years old. In the house. In the car (windows closed) etc etc

 

Having said that.....getting my D levels up to optimal seems to be helpful.....extremely helpful.

 

:)

K

[Tree House Academy]

Dont' be concerned:) I posted a great document on what you can do to dampen down excessive cytokine activity (natural ACE inhibitors and cytokine reducers).....just search for it....maybe search H1N1.

 

Also, the people really at risk are ones with underlying lung issues and weight issues. I have both. I did get H1N1. I did get on tamiflu w/in 2 days. My symptoms are seriously seriously mild - no fever.....normal activities at home. I self quarantined for a while (3-4 days) but am out and about now. I'm not coughing any more than I normally do (allergies, maybe GERD etc) and I feel fine. A teeeeeensy bit achey. A teeeeensy bit 'off'. But it's so minimal that I'm sure no one else would notice.

 

On the 'never' sick front: I wouldn't classify 18 mos since the last illness as 'never' sick. That's at least once every 18 mos (if that's a pattern for you). Never sick to me means once every five to 10 years. DH has been sick One Time in the 13 years that we've been together. One time. It's amazing.

 

I consider my immune system to be moderate.....I get something mild about 2x per year but it's so mild that my normal activity continues.. I treat it with high dose A, D, zinc, zicam etc and it's all good. However, what comes after the ubermild viral thing is for me, very serious. It almost always turns into pneumonia. That's not about immune function but probably about anatomical inflammatory changes that occured over time in my lungs b/c my dad was a 3.5 pack per day smoker until I was 8 years old. In the house. In the car (windows closed) etc etc

 

Having said that.....getting my D levels up to optimal seems to be helpful.....extremely helpful.

 

:)

K

 

Thank you for this post with your experiences. I am not overweight to the point of concerning (20 pounds maybe for my frame). Dh is the same - 20/30 pounds for his frame. However, he is terrible asthma that he has developed in the last 7 years (since we have been married). I have terrible allergies and what is called "mild, intermittent" asthma. He tends to get bronchitis when he gets sick. I had walking pneumonia one time in my life and it was after the flu - a particularly bad strain where I didn't slow down at.all (I was 17) AND I had just had mono, so my immune system was shot by the time I got the flu. I actually probably wouldn't have gotten the flu had it not been for the recent mono.

 

I do get sick on occasion - I mean once a year, once every two years. Usually when I do get sick, it is mild and just annoying. I have almost constant sinus issues from my allergies though.

 

Ds10, on the other hand, has been truly sick 1 time in the last 7 years - and that with the flu when he was 4. Prior to that, he had some ear infections and croup. He has never been the kind of kid to get the sniffles, a cough, anything. His last "issue" was allergies that turned into a sinus issue and that was about 2 years ago.

[cillakat]

However, he is terrible asthma that he has developed in the last 7 years (since we have been married). I have terrible allergies and what is called "mild, intermittent" asthma. .

 

Ditto with my asthma...only an issue if I'm sick. Non issue otherwise. Here is some info I've compiled regarding prevention and tx of the flu - esp H1N1.

 

For most people optimizing D, 1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight seems to be about right. The amounts sound high but they're not one you're up to your ears in D research and how much it's actually taking people to get to optimal D levels. vitamindcouncil.org and grassrootshealth.org are very very helpful.

 

You may want to consider grassrootshealth.org as they have a $40 vitamin D test, twice a year as part of a population based study. It could do wonderful things for you and the baby you're carrying.

 

ACE inhibitors, some anti-inflammatories will help dampen down a cytokine storm. So can optimal D levels. Read on.

 

share as needed/interested. All information is mine and from evidence based sources. I didn't have time to cite......so do with it what you will.

 

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AV...ZGd3a2N3&hl=en

 

Virtually all flulike illnesses currently presenting are H1N1. It's possible that 50% of cases are presenting without a fever and very likely many more. This makes meaningless, the recommendations to "stay home from school or work until fever free for 24 hours" as many with the flu will never have had a fever. Children are unknowingly being sent to school with H1N1; adults with H1N1 will continue to go to work not realizing that they are spreading the flu.

 

Contagion is a factor from 24h prior to onset of symptoms and for 7-10 days after *onset of symptoms*.

 

It's wonderful that most people are reporting being sick for 1.5-2 days. Yay! For those at risk for respiratory complications though (including our pregnant friends and family members) it doesn't matter that 'most' are sick for 1-2 days. For them, this is not a typical flu so please stay home if you have any symptoms. Please keep your child home if they have any symptoms. If one is sick, keep them all home.

 

What can you do to prevent or treat the flu?

 

Consider:

•Anti-Virals if you think you have the flu [CDC recommendation not mine] Keep in mind that there is a 50-90% false negtive rate on the rapid flu tests. Yes, you read that right. Just b/c you have a negative rapid flu test absolutely positively does not mean you are home free.

 

Effective treatment:

 

•Anti-Viral Medication started within 24h (less helpful but still helpful if started later....though drug resistant cases are emerging)

 

•High Dose Vitamin D3 therapy aka Stoss Therapy. (reduces cytokines) Stoss Therapy is 1,000 IU D per one lb body weight per day

FOR THREE DAYS,

then back to normal dosing: 1,000 IU per 25 lbs body weight. Stoss therapy is not appropriate for those with kidney disease. Take sufficient calcium and magnesium while taking vitamin D.

Likely Helpful adjuncts effective treatment - will reduce and/or moderate cytokines or act as ACE inhibitors:

 

•Aspirin,

Adults only;

never children or adolescents

(reduces cytokines).

 

•Green tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines). Consider drinking

 

daily and/or gargling with it.

 

•High dose vitamin C therapy to bowel tolerance. Use cheap ascorbic acid unless you personally need buffered - avoid time released for this usage.

 

 

Effective Prevention:

 

•Optimal blood levels of D3 (reduces cytokines)

 

 

•50-80 ng/mL is optimal; some say 50-70 ng/mL, some say 55-80 ng/mL - it depends on who's writing and when they wrote it. Anything less than 50 ng/mL=substrate deficiency which is a Very Bad Thing. Our 50-80 ng/mL translates to 150-200 nmoL in any other place in the world

Moderate levels are correlated, by some data, with increased cytokine activity (20-40 ng/mL). We don't want moderate levels or even 'normal' levels. We want optimal levels in the middle of the 'reference range'.

 

 

 

•Remember that because of problems with Quest's test, any D result from them should be divided by 1.3 to get an accurate number.

 

 

 

•Optimal vitamin D levels are your very best defense against influenza, some researchers posit that it may be as or more effective than a vaccine.

 

 

•Green tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines).

 

Drink it or gargle.

 

•Probiotics. Take daily.

May be helpful adjuncts to effective treatment and/or prevention in addition to above measures:

 

•Black tea (ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines)

 

•Quercetin (possible ACE inhibitor, reduces cytokines)

 

•Pomegranate (ACE inhibitor)

 

•Proanthocyandin containig foods, supplements (ACE inhibitors): grapeseed extract, pinebark extract (pycnogenol)

 

•Turmeric (reduces cytokines). 1/4 tsp powder can be placed on tongue and swallowed with water

.

 

•Black pepper (reduces cytokines)

 

•Raw crushed garlic (reduces cytokines). For easy dosing, mix with tsp raw honey.

 

•Coconut oil (reduces cytokines)

 

•Echinacea (increases some cytokine activity but overwhelmingly reduces cytokine activity)

Assess carefully:

 

•Elderberry aka Sambucol (known to increase cytokines). I am avoiding.

 

•Astragalus (reduces activity of some cytokines, increases activity of other cytokines). I am avoiding.

 

•Olive oil (may increase cytokines). I will continue to use as needed but will use coconut oil for cooking/baking.

 

•Fish oil (may increase cytokines). I will continue to take significant amounts.

 

•Chocolate (ACE inhibitor but increases cytokines). I will use moderately;p

Cannel on preventing and treating H1N1:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsl...itamin-d.shtml

 

Randomized, placebo controlled trial shows D3 prevents and treats colds and flu:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17352842

[Liz CA]

I have a terrible immune system (though it's far better than it used to be), but no flu yet.

 

Not really sure about my immune system. I do take something called "Immune Stimulator" and haven't had a cold since then - for about 2 years. Would I have had a cold without the supplements? Probably.

The last baaad flu was in the winter of 2005. I wanted to die for one day and one night.

 

I need to build up ds's system since he is in college and it's a veritable breeding ground for all kinds of germs.

[txbloobonnet]

I'm hardly ever sick. (My family is healthier than normal, too.) Maybe once every three years? I don't think I have ever had any kind of flu. And I do leave my house. I'm not a hermit. :001_smile:

[Rhonda in TX]

I got strep throat about 4 years ago. Before that, I can't remember the last time I was sick. It drives DH crazy because I will get a sore throat and it will be gone the next day.

 

I've never had the flu. DH thinks he may have had swine flu this summer, but we're not sure. He was in-bed sick for 3-4 days.

[LibraryLover]

We have not been sick enough for meds in years. (Knock wood) My 20 yr old has not had an antibiotic since age 12, my 17 yr old not since she has an ear infection at 18 mos, my 10 yr old has never had an antibiotic. My 15 yr old hasn't had an antibiotic since he needed surgery at 8 mos old.

 

I haven't needed an antibiotic since 1991. Dh, not since childhood.

 

Which makes me very concerned.

 

I hope the trials with the vax go well, as I will want my son away at college to receive it. I'm decided.

Edited September 6, 2009 by LibraryLover

[cillakat]

LaurieNE,

 

The ones who've been seriously seriously ill (hospitalized) aren't the ones who 'never get sick'.

 

You should do well.

 

All the best,

Katherine

[LibraryLover]

Not for this flu. The stats show younger, healthier people in the death count.

 

I hope it's not as bad as some fear.

 

LaurieNE,

 

The ones who've been seriously seriously ill (hospitalized) aren't the ones who 'never get sick'.

 

You should do well.

 

All the best,

Katherine

[TraceyS/FL]

I get REALLY sick once every few years. Normally with a sinus infection of some sort...

 

I"m fighting something, and my youngest is popping up with new H1N1 symptoms by the hour :glare: (and none of us have ever had the flu)

 

Am i worried? Yes. The timing about stinks too - my Grandma with chronic sinus issues (she's had 3 surgeries) arrives tomorrow, and my Dad still has a compromised immune system from his chemo. But his counts are on the rise. So i have 1 sick kid, 1 with just a fever, myself trying to get it... and plans for the month Grandma is here.

 

But mainly, i'm worried it's going to hit me hard like the last 2 times i've gotten something.... and i'm without insurance :(

[Peek a Boo]

Not for this flu. The stats show younger, healthier people in the death count.

 

I hope it's not as bad as some fear.

 

I'd want to see a medical history that the ones hospitalized or dead were the ones that "never got sick." There's a big difference between it killing/hospitalizing the "usually healthier people" who don't USUALLY get the flu, but it's a whole nother thing to assume that there's NOT some other underlying medical condition [like pregnancy] that could have played into how or why certain "healthier" people are catching the swine flu.

 

but since so few have been hospitalized or died, I'll wait and see what happens.

[Tree House Academy]

You may want to consider grassrootshealth.org as they have a $40 vitamin D test, twice a year as part of a population based study. It could do wonderful things for you and the baby you're carrying.

 

Thanks for all your advice, but err...ummm...I am totally NOT pregnant! LOL

[mirth]

I thought the problem with cytokine storms is not so much that it happens, but what matters most is the site where the big internal flu fight takes place. Basically if the fight gets into your lungs, that is bad because the lungs is not where you want a bunch of fluids and blood (by-products of the warfare) to accumulate. Your lungs get all clogged up and oxygen throughput is severely reduced. Isn't this called pneumonia?

 

So if you must be one of the 50% transmission rate people, having your body ID and wage war against the H1N1 virus elsewhere is the best outcome, I'd guess.

 

I tried to find autopsy reports (statistiscs thereof) of those who recently died after contracting H1N1 to see exactly what killed them but was having a hard time coming up with succinct info associated with cytokine activity other than pneumonia.