help me deal ds8 who's getting easily frustrated with math

[workingmom]

Ds 7.5 is is doing SM 3 and he's really capable of doing the work he just gets frustrated looking at the amount of problems to do in the WB exercise (which I really don't think is a lot) Today we started section 2 on adding thousands, he really knows it but looks at the page with a whopping 9 probs and starts getting teary eyed. i let him work on the floor since he said he wants to do it with the base 10 after 40 secs of that he comes and tells me he's getting distracted so I tell him why don't you move to the table and do the work there. He says b/c he'll get distracted looking at the world map we have hung up on the bulletin board in front of the desk!!@@@

Then I sit next to him, which I'm trying to have him grow out of b/c no teacher sits next to you for each and every problem.

 

I'm worried that if I give in and say only do 3 probs then he'll think he can whine his way out of the work. And acutually it wasn't really hard, the first page of the exercise was just adding in your head like 2340+ 3 or +40 and then the second page and 9 probs that you figure out and carry and the third page was three word probs.

 

We've tried beating the timer earlier this year and it was working. I just don't know what to say to make him know that he has to do the work. I even put up a "No Bad Attitude" sign in the learning room!

 

Suggestions to nurture an independent learner and someone motivated to get their work done. By the way, he thinks he doesn't need to add into the thousands so we even talked about buying bigger items like cars and how we'll only be able to buy toy cars if he can only add in the 100s. He gets it just easily frustrated by the volume of probs.

[laurad1125]

Maybe SM just isn't a good match for him?

 

Ds10 cried and stalled and whined horribly on Saxon 54. I was to the point of assigning every 4th problem and he still said it was too much. We switched to Horizons and he loves it. The work itself isn't really that different, but the format it's presented in is. I usually preview the lesson (3 pages) and select which ones I want him to do. Even when I forget and hand him the whole lesson, he'll happily complete the whole thing.

 

Ds6 is the same with Phonics Pathways. If I try to get him to look at the page, he gets overwhelmed by all the words and won't even try. If I spell each word with letter tiles, one at a time, he'll read the whole page's worth with no complaint.

 

Sometimes it's not the material, it's the presentation that overwhelms mine, YMMV.

[Chris in VA]

Could you have two math sessions in one day? Can you do any of it orally/mentally but w/o writing it?

We use Saxon, so I don't know how the SM problems are, but I've heard there isn't a lot of drill, so it's important to do what they assign. Maybe scattering the problems throughout the day would help.

[Colleen in NS]

Ds 7.5 is is doing SM 3 and he's really capable of doing the work he just gets frustrated looking at the amount of problems to do in the WB exercise (which I really don't think is a lot) Today we started section 2 on adding thousands, he really knows it but looks at the page with a whopping 9 probs and starts getting teary eyed. i let him work on the floor since he said he wants to do it with the base 10 after 40 secs of that he comes and tells me he's getting distracted so I tell him why don't you move to the table and do the work there. He says b/c he'll get distracted looking at the world map we have hung up on the bulletin board in front of the desk!!@@@

Then I sit next to him, which I'm trying to have him grow out of b/c no teacher sits next to you for each and every problem.

 

So, he's capable of doing the work and he understands it. He just gets distracted. I'm impressed that he actually comes and tells you he is getting distracted!

 

My son is easily distractible, and he used to get overwhelmed by seeing the math problems, too, even though I knew that he knew how to do them. I eliminated whatever I thought could be eliminated, but after that, I didn't cave when he complained. I just sat him down in front of a white wall at a table and had him do them. I was nearby and a few times I think I would sit with him while he got through the first few problems, so that he could get some momentum going and see that it really wasn't that bad - "do this problem, OK, move your eyes to the one after it, do that, move your eyes to the next one, do it," and so on. I don't think there is any problem with sitting next to an 8 yo (unless you have several other kids who need you at the moment?) to help him get going, even directing his eyes as he goes along, so that you train his eyes to stay on each problem. A teacher in school may not be able to, even if the child might need it. You have the advantage of sitting beside him while he needs it, so that later on, he might not need it so much, as he learns to ignore distractions (still working on that here, but it has improved since he was 8).

 

hth

[Corraleno]

Sometimes it's not the material, it's the presentation that overwhelms mine, YMMV.

 

This is so true! For my (very distractible) DS, it wasn't the level of the material or even the objective number of problems, it was the look of the page (and the perceived number of problems) that made it seem overwhelming to him.

 

If you like the Singapore method but need a different presentation, look at Math Mammoth. It's very similar in approach (uses the bar diagrams, includes challenging word problems, etc), but very different in presentation. My son vastly preferred MM to Singapore or any other textbook, and even to some of the online math programs (like Destination Math). The "teaching" part and the "workbook" part are integrated on the same page, the sections are set apart with different colors, and you can just print out a few pages at a time, so it doesn't seem nearly as overwhelming.

 

This was the first math program I found that my son could sit down and do without panicking. I pulled him out of public school after 4th grade, when he was only at 3rd grade level in math. It took him HOURS to do his math homework, with much crying and arguing. Last year we did Math Mammoth (4A, 4B, and most of the 5/6 grade Blue Series) and this year (6th) he is doing TT PreAlgebra. He used to practically hyperventilate looking at a sheet of math problems; now he knows he can do it and there's no more tears, stalling, arguing, etc.

 

The Math Mammoth "Light Blue" books are a complete grade-leveled curriculum (3A, 3B, 4A, 4B, etc), or you can also order individual topics (Blue series). You can download free samples from the website to see if it's something your son would like:

http://www.mathmammoth.com/worksheets/free.php

 

Jackie

[PeterPan]

He's young! When my dd was learning 4 digit addition, we did *1* problem a day. :) He's pretty advanced in Singapore for his age anyway (7.5 makes him a rising 2nd grader doing SM3). Why not slow it down big-time and alternate with math games, hands-on stuff, Primary Challenge Math by Zaccaro, or something else? Sounds like he likes hands-on stuff, so do more of that. Do 4 problems, but you write them on the board and let him do them with the blocks.

[workingmom]

I really don't want to switch programs b/c he does stellar on the standardized testing. Either I do what Colleen suggests and just sit him down and redirect him or what OhElizabeth says and just do a couple problems a day. He is in 3rd (he skipped a grade, so he's on level and I don't mind that we slow down) but I don't want him to be lazy about it either. Maybe I'll take a break for a few weeks and just slow down with the goal of picking back up after that. Just to get that frustration out of his system.

[AngieW in Texas]

My youngest does better with an assigned amount of time than with an assigned amount of problems. For 5th grade she did just 20 minutes of Singapore each day. She still managed to finish 4B and 5A in one schoolyear.

 

My dd hit a wall in Singapore in 3A. We left Singapore for a little over one year and then came back to level 4A. She did great when we returned to Singapore. She just needed a different approach for a while.

[workingmom]

Angie that's what we are in 3A what did you do when you left it for a while, which program?

[FriedClams]

We do Horizons and some of the pages overwhelm my 3rd grader. They are just written too small and it's hard to carry all the numbers, etc. On those days I copy the problems onto bright colored index cards (1 problem per card - sometimes I cut the card in half and do 1 per half card) and hand her the cards. It's like magic. She whizzes through them and it's intimidating for her. I don't eliminate any problems - it's just the space and presentation make it fun and easier for her.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Kayaking Mom

[workingmom]

i thought about rewriting it on the dry erase board but on colored index cards is even better.

[Moniksca]

I had the same problem with my ds7 when using MUS, I'd even taken several breaks from math once after 2 weeks as soon as I pulled out this workbook, I'd get tears. I think he was intimidated by the look of the book. So I had to rewrite the problems out myself one line at a time. He felt like he'd accomplished something before we moved on. Also with MUS they started with the new concept first then went on to review, which discouraged my son. he would have a good grasp of the review material but was unsure of the new concept so he would have a break down before we got through the new stuff. I think its a presentation issue. I did however decide to switch to saxon 3 this year so we'll see how that goes. I had used the dry erase board for quite awhile, my son liked it because he could write as large as he wanted but it was a mess.

[AngieW in Texas]

We tried Professor B first. I thought my dd would like it since it's an auditory program and she's an auditory learner, but she HATED it. I had the older version that was just in book format, not the newer version that's done on the computer. That didn't last long.

 

Next we tried Moving with Math level B. That program actually worked. It's supposed to cover 3rd and 4th grade math. My dd did the entire program in about 8-9 months (we do math year-round). I was willing to buy MWM level C for her if I could find it used, but nobody seemed to be selling it.

 

We tried CLE Math 4 next. Based on the Table of Contents, it looked like my dd was ready for the middle of their 4th grade math program. That one didn't last long at all. My dd absolutely DETESTED it. I had high hopes for that one since it has excellent reviews on these boards, but it just wasn't going to work for my dd.

 

I tried MathSteps on the recommendation of a tutor, but my dd didn't do well with it either. The pages were crowded and the paper was newsprint (thin and yellowed). My dd has vision issues that make it difficult for her to see what's actually on the paper if it doesn't have black print on white paper or if it's so thin that the printing on the other side shows through clearly (separating background from foreground).

 

At that point I was ready to pay retail for MWM level C, but my dd asked to return to Singapore. She was ready for 4A at that point. She's working in 5B now. I added Daily Math Practice to give her regular, systematic review. I also switched from working a set amount of problems (one exercise) to working for a set amount of time. In 5th grade she did 20 minutes of Singapore each day and still finished 4B and 5A in one year. I'm having her work for 25 minutes this year in 6th grade.

Edited August 29, 2009 by AngieW in Texas

[ma23peas]

Then I sit next to him, which I'm trying to have him grow out of b/c no teacher sits next to you for each and every problem.

 

I'll have to disagree on this point a smidge. My son is 14, I just sat next to him through EACH and EVERY problem because he had hit a wall....I'll probably do it for another week...then I may not have to sit next to him for another 3 months...but I don't think refusing to sit next to him for each and every problem helps him 'grow out of it'...that's not the goal in homeschooling...I look at it as we sit next to them when they need us....sounds like he needs you...even if it's for a week..it's enough to be an encourager through each problem and praise him for how well he does, commiserate with him on the number of problems..skip some lessons...if he's mastered something then go on..if he hasn't don't worry about switching it up...some days ONLY require him to do the 50 problem (addition/subtraction sheets)...other days have fun with it...throw M&M's on the table and say we're gonna do math...do ratios of colors to another, do battles of dividing enemy M&M's...I think when a child is whining...90% of the time it's something we would whine at too...it becomes a machine, complete x # of problems and move on...where's the encouragement? the inspiration? the creative process?

 

Kids in school are motivated by having their work turned in and graded or discussing tests with their peers...our kids don't have that so I think we have to do a little measure extra to keep it engaging..

 

It also means it's more fun for us!! :)

 

Tara

[Julie in MN]

I'll have to disagree on this point a smidge. My son is 14, I just sat next to him through EACH and EVERY problem because he had hit a wall....I'll probably do it for another week...then I may not have to sit next to him for another 3 months...but I don't think refusing to sit next to him for each and every problem helps him 'grow out of it'...that's not the goal in homeschooling...I look at it as we sit next to them when they need us....sounds like he needs you...even if it's for a week..it's enough to be an encourager through each problem and praise him for how well he does, commiserate with him on the number of problems..skip some lessons...if he's mastered something then go on..if he hasn't don't worry about switching it up...some days ONLY require him to do the 50 problem (addition/subtraction sheets)...other days have fun with it...throw M&M's on the table and say we're gonna do math...do ratios of colors to another, do battles of dividing enemy M&M's...I think when a child is whining...90% of the time it's something we would whine at too...it becomes a machine, complete x # of problems and move on...where's the encouragement? the inspiration? the creative process?

 

Kids in school are motivated by having their work turned in and graded or discussing tests with their peers...our kids don't have that so I think we have to do a little measure extra to keep it engaging..

 

It also means it's more fun for us!! :)

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

 

Just grab a book or your planning calendar & do "your work" while he does his!

[ElizabethB]

What if you cut the pages out and gave him one page at a time so he didn't see them all at once?

 

Try it with a few pages.

 

I like to cut a few pages out at the end of each school year to save.

 

My daughter is that way with reading. She can read anything, but will only read things that don't look like too many words at once. If I break things up for her, she will read them.

[zaichiki]

Sounds like Singapore's Math is working wonderfully! He's doing Primary Math 3, which they begin in Singapore in grade 3 (the kids have to be 9 and they start in January). Sounds like he just doesn't like a lot of repetition. You're not going to find a math curriculum with LESS repetition than Singapore Math... I don't think.

 

My ds has always been like this about repetition, too. How about making a deal with him (next time) before he starts the whining? Here's an example of what I do with ds and his workbook practice. Picture four rows of two problems each. I'll tell him that if he can do the first row and the last row with NO errors (careless computational stuff), then he can skip the middle two rows of problems. It works wonders! He thinks he's getting away with less work, but he's paying more attention to what he's doing, doing a better job in less time, and still proving that he knows the material.

 

I used to let him do only four problems on one practice set and then do four "leftover from yesterday" on the previous practice set... Sometimes the change in topic helped. Or... I'd jump into the middle of the book for a change in pace (like with dd who is in 2B right now... we'll do half of the workbook page for the mental addition, ex. 4 and half of the workbook page for 4X tables, ex. 14... then the next day she'd do the other half of each wb exercise).

 

It sounds like your ds IS perfectly capable of the work. Maybe he just needs less repetition right now? Have you tried the Intensive Practice book? We use it half a year behind (2B text and wkbk, but 2A IP) for a nicely spaced review. The problems make the kids think. They're presented differently than in the text/wkbk. The IP is more interesting to them than the regular workbook and they're more willing to do the review.

 

Good luck! :)

 

Ds 7.5 is is doing SM 3 and he's really capable of doing the work he just gets frustrated looking at the amount of problems to do in the WB exercise (which I really don't think is a lot) Today we started section 2 on adding thousands, he really knows it but looks at the page with a whopping 9 probs and starts getting teary eyed. i let him work on the floor since he said he wants to do it with the base 10 after 40 secs of that he comes and tells me he's getting distracted so I tell him why don't you move to the table and do the work there. He says b/c he'll get distracted looking at the world map we have hung up on the bulletin board in front of the desk!!@@@

Then I sit next to him, which I'm trying to have him grow out of b/c no teacher sits next to you for each and every problem.

 

I'm worried that if I give in and say only do 3 probs then he'll think he can whine his way out of the work. And acutually it wasn't really hard, the first page of the exercise was just adding in your head like 2340+ 3 or +40 and then the second page and 9 probs that you figure out and carry and the third page was three word probs.

 

We've tried beating the timer earlier this year and it was working. I just don't know what to say to make him know that he has to do the work. I even put up a "No Bad Attitude" sign in the learning room!

 

Suggestions to nurture an independent learner and someone motivated to get their work done. By the way, he thinks he doesn't need to add into the thousands so we even talked about buying bigger items like cars and how we'll only be able to buy toy cars if he can only add in the 100s. He gets it just easily frustrated by the volume of probs.

[zaichiki]

He's young! When my dd was learning 4 digit addition, we did *1* problem a day. :) He's pretty advanced in Singapore for his age anyway (7.5 makes him a rising 2nd grader doing SM3). Why not slow it down big-time and alternate with math games, hands-on stuff, Primary Challenge Math by Zaccaro, or something else? Sounds like he likes hands-on stuff, so do more of that. Do 4 problems, but you write them on the board and let him do them with the blocks.

 

 

See, now, I had the opposite impression... isn't it interesting. I thought he wanted less review and to get to the new stuff more quickly, rather than slowing it down.

[kalanamak]

I'm working on longer, less interrupted math. With Singapore math, I do a hands on dog and pony show, do the text, then the workbook. If kiddo doesn't have the problems in the text pretty close to down pat, I backtrack and don't go onto the workbook, yet. Once he starts getting the components of the problem, I fear I have started spontaneously rearing back in my chair and woo-hooing, which makes him laugh. Humor helps our math here considerably. Chanting dunt-dunt-dunt-dunt a la Jaws (which he has never seen) or a wah-wah-wah for an error may make me look really silly, it works for us. HTH

 

(I should have known it was coming when kiddo in the high chair had a hard time sitting still long enough to eat enough for his huge appetite. I ended up using plastic elephants and shredded wheat for "hay" and raisins for dung to tell stories about Dumbo and Jumbo to keep him in his chair while he ate.)

[cougarmom4]

I think the suggestions for changing the presentation a bit might be helpful. Here are a few more:

 

What about covering part of the page with a piece of paper/index card, so he only sees a few problems at a time?

 

Last year with my ds6, I would have him tell me when he finished a row of math problems, then I'd tell him to do ten jumping jacks; then he did another row, and I'd have him run around the couch six times; etc. It really helped him to move a little bit in between and he loved it when I came up with crazy things for him to do.

 

And then with my ds11 last year, I would sit with him, we'd both use a small white board to work the problems...sometimes we'd race, sometimes we'd just see who got the answer right, etc. But for some reason, if I was working out the problems at the same time, he loved it. And the white board was always better than writing on the paper.

[workingmom]

So today I took one of the mental math pages (which I admit are tons of problems) and folded it into quarters and he did a quarter page in 2.5 minutes we still use the timer. so he was excited. i did think about covering the page like the last poster mentioned.

 

perhaps just mixing it up will help.