Reformed Christians-input needed /CC obviously

[sunflowerlady]

Dh and I are Baptists and I am just starting to study the Reformed faith. I have shared a bit with him about what I have learned. Long story short, we are planning to visit some different churches and this Sunday will be visiting a Presbyterian church which is about a 35 minute ride from us.

 

One reason we are choosing to visit this particular church is that they are pro-homeschooling and when I checked their website, I found they are family integrated. They have allowed our hs group to use their building for group acticvities free of charge even though nobody in our group is a member there. Dh has spoken briefly to the pastor on the phone and asked a few questions. The pastor seems very nice and willing to discuss things with dh. I saw on the church website that the pastor is a former Baptist, so he will know where dh and I are coming from.:tongue_smilie:

 

Obviously this will be very different for us. Dh and I are KJV people. They use NASB or NKJV. DH may really dislike this. We have a background in the Independent Fundamental Baptist church that KJV is the only acceptable translation and we do personally prefer it. Other than that, dh judges a church on the preaching. We also like friendly people.

 

So, what do I want to know, you ask.:bigear:

 

First, I ask for prayer that the Lord will lead us regarding this church and if He wants us there, dh will know.

 

Also, this is the denomination that the church belongs to and I want to ask opinions and insight from Reformed Christians regarding it.

 

http://www.rpcga.org//

 

I obviously do not know a lot about Reformed churches and the various groups. From looking at the site, they look okay. What do you think ? Are they good or is there anything negative or strange about them?

 

Thank you. I was up until the wee hours last night reading through the threads on the Dark Side Social group.:lol:

 

God Bless you all.

[Ellie]

This would be problematic for me: "practice male head-of-household voting." Excuse me? Wives do not vote? What about single women? Are they supposed to live at home and serve their fathers unless and until they are married? And furthermore, are women allowed to speak in public *at all*? In Sunday school? During a church business meeting?

 

Yeah, I'd be checking into a whole bunch of stuff before *I* stepped foot in that church. I've seen some things in Reformed churches along those lines which IMHO are not biblical.

[Chris in VA]

Therefore, be it resolved that the Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly recommend all of her churches to support and encourage their officers and communicant members to remove their children from public schools (elementary, middle, high schools, and post-secondary schools)* and provide a thoroughly Christian education, thereby seeking God's covenant blessings for their children and families, in order to glorify God and for the good of Christ's Church. Underlining mine.

 

So, no public school at all? NO COLLEGE?

 

I'd run, screaming, in the other direction.

[cajun.classical]

Also, this is the denomination that the church belongs to and I want to ask opinions and insight from Reformed Christians regarding it.

 

http://www.rpcga.org//

 

.

I am Reformed Presbyterian, but I'm not familiar with this denomination. Just be aware that--like most things--what goes by the name "Reformed" is a mixed bag: in terms of doctrine, liturgy, practice, etc.

 

Blessings to you in your search.

[BikeBookBread]

Are you interested in this specific denomination, or "reformed" in general? There are other denominations, as well. Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) comes to mind. (I've not heard of this specific denomination -- is it regional?).

 

We currently attend a Bible-believing, non-denominational church that does not call itself "reformed" at all, but have found like-minded, reformed-minded thinkers within the church that we attend.

 

We attended a Evanglical Free Church in Almost Canada, ND for 3 years which really got us interested in the reformed movement, Calvinism, etc.

 

If I could say one thing in gross generalization it would be this: the people from the reformed church we attended, and the reformed-minded people that we have met here, have tended to be more educated about the Scriptures than anyone I have met in any church I have ever attended before. They are also well-read outside of the Bible -- good conversationalists, interested in music, art, theology, culture, etc.

 

There is a deep, deep hunger and thirst for knowing God's Word in these churches, and I LOVE that. It is contagious! And reading God's Word obviously has worked in their hearts, and they are living lives that show it...kind, giving, open, (most) not legalistic, either; their lives just glowed with the love of the Lord!

Edited August 18, 2009 by BikeBookBread
added links to to denominations

[mommaduck]

Therefore, be it resolved that the Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly recommend all of her churches to support and encourage their officers and communicant members to remove their children from public schools (elementary, middle, high schools, and post-secondary schools)* and provide a thoroughly Christian education, thereby seeking God's covenant blessings for their children and families, in order to glorify God and for the good of Christ's Church. Underlining mine.

 

So, no public school at all? NO COLLEGE?

 

I'd run, screaming, in the other direction.

 

RPCGA is overall fine with college. They don't encourage the "go off to college and live a dorm lifestyle" type of thing though.

[justamouse]

Some great links about family integrated churches, from women who have been there-

 

http://www.thatmom.com/?page_id=2675

 

http://truewomanhood.wordpress.com/

 

http://quiveringdaughters.blogspot.com/

[Chris in VA]

Thanks for the clarification--sorry if I offended by my obvious overstatement.

[i.love.lucy]

Are you interested in this specific denomination, or "reformed" in general? There are other denominations, as well. Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) comes to mind. (I've not heard of this specific denomination -- is it regional?).

 

We currently attend a Bible-believing, non-denominational church that does not call itself "reformed" at all, but have found like-minded, reformed-minded thinkers within the church that we attend.

 

We attended a Evanglical Free Church in Almost Canada, ND for 3 years which really got us interested in the reformed movement, Calvinism, etc.

 

If I could say one thing in gross generalization it would be this: the people from the reformed church we attended, and the reformed-minded people that we have met here, have tended to be more educated about the Scriptures than anyone I have met in any church I have ever attended before. They are also well-read outside of the Bible -- good conversationalists, interested in music, art, theology, culture, etc.

 

There is a deep, deep hunger and thirst for knowing God's Word in these churches, and I LOVE that. It is contagious! And reading God's Word obviously has worked in their hearts, and they are living lives that show it...kind, giving, open, (most) not legalistic, either; their lives just glowed with the love of the Lord!

Okay, so... Bear with me here, since this is a "what denom - or demon or denim - am I" thread, not a dark side thread, I think this question is relevant. I posted earlier that we are in a similar situation, possibly feeling the "call" to change churches. We want a specifically expository preaching/teaching style and are not Anglican or Orthodox in any way. So we lean in the bible/baptist category most likely. But we are also learning more about the dark side and feel like our belief may be changing and growing in that way. SO out of curiosity I clicked on the above link for Evangelical Free because I have no idea what that is. You mentioned that was you first exposure to reformed or Calvinist ideas, but when I look at that website an the ones for the EFC in our area, they are so generic, no mention of reformed ideology at all.

 

I am so confused. If one is not specifically tied to a denom (I like denim), how else would you look for a new church but to check out websites, and when they are so generic, then what? I know also word of mouth, but as you know this is a difficult thing to discuss with friends.

[sunflowerlady]

Thanks for the replies so far. To answer a question, I am interested in Reformed Christianity in general and am currently working on learning about it. This thread was to ask about the specific Reformed Denomination of the church we are planning to visit. Clear as mud? :D

 

I looked at long lists of Reformed denomonations and my head was spinning.:confused: There seemed to be dozens of Presbyterian groups alone. Of course, I am Baptist and they have numerous groups also. It is just that since I have some background as a Baptist, I have more understanding of the different groups. So I figured that the Reformed Christians here could help me out and give some insight regarding this group.

 

I have bookmarked the links about family integrated churches. Thanks for that.

 

After reading some of the replies, I am feeling a little scared of this church now.:001_huh:

 

Please keep the input coming. It is very helpful.:bigear:

[i.love.lucy]

Thanks for the replies so far. To answer a question, I am interested in Reformed Christianity in general and am currently working on learning about it. This thread was to ask about the specific Reformed Denomination of the church we are planning to visit. Clear as mud? :D

 

I looked at long lists of Reformed denomonations and my head was spinning.:confused: There seemed to be dozens of Presbyterian groups alone. Of course, I am Baptist and they have numerous groups also. It is just that since I have some background as a Baptist, I have more understanding of the different groups. So I figured that the Reformed Christians here could help me out and give some insight regarding this group.

 

I have bookmarked the links about family integrated churches. Thanks for that.

 

After reading some of the replies, I am feeling a little scared of this church now.:001_huh:

 

Please keep the input coming. It is very helpful.:bigear:

Excuse me. I had a small brain bubble. ;) I have been reading SO MANY threads and websites that I am getting myself confused and I mixed up your thread with the earlier one about "what denom do I fit?" WHEW! This has all got my head spinning too!:D

 

So nevermind my previous question about denoms and I will keep a watchful eye on this thread for more understanding about choosing a reformed church. When I looked at the link you provided it didn't seem like it was a widespread group, just a few? But I still think you should continue to investigate if you got a good feeling from the pastor.

[sunflowerlady]

Excuse me. I had a small brain bubble. ;) I have been reading SO MANY threads and websites that I am getting myself confused and I mixed up your thread with the earlier one about "what denom do I fit?" WHEW! This has all got my head spinning too!:D

 

So nevermind my previous question about denoms and I will keep a watchful eye on this thread for more understanding about choosing a reformed church. When I looked at the link you provided it didn't seem like it was a widespread group, just a few? But I still think you should continue to investigate if you got a good feeling from the pastor.

 

No, your question was really good. :) I was just answering someone who asked if I wanted to learn about Reformed theology in general or this group in particular.

 

Yes, it seems a very small group with very few churches. Is that bad, good or irrelevant, you think ?:) Now I am wondering if they are scary. We will probably still go check it out.

[BikeBookBread]

Okay, so... Bear with me here, since this is a "what denom - or demon or denim - am I" thread, not a dark side thread, I think this question is relevant. I posted earlier that we are in a similar situation, possibly feeling the "call" to change churches. We want a specifically expository preaching/teaching style and are not Anglican or Orthodox in any way. So we lean in the bible/baptist category most likely. But we are also learning more about the dark side and feel like our belief may be changing and growing in that way. SO out of curiosity I clicked on the above link for Evangelical Free because I have no idea what that is. You mentioned that was you first exposure to reformed or Calvinist ideas, but when I look at that website an the ones for the EFC in our area, they are so generic, no mention of reformed ideology at all.

 

I am so confused. If one is not specifically tied to a denom (I like denim), how else would you look for a new church but to check out websites, and when they are so generic, then what? I know also word of mouth, but as you know this is a difficult thing to discuss with friends.

 

I just went up to the ELCA website, and am surprised, too, that I couldn't find a better statement of faith/doctrine. It is very vague. All I know is that the church we attended up in ND was open about their doctrine, etc. and were reformed, with no apologies! If this helps, here is a very good article by Michael Horton of The White Horse Inn about the history of reformed churches in America - there's also a question answered in the FAQs about why The White Horse Inn doesn't recommend churches, but wants to educate listeners and readers on how to KNOW on their own how to pick a church ...this is a very good article and applicable to this whole thread!

Edited August 19, 2009 by BikeBookBread

[Dirtroad]

Therefore, be it resolved that the Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly recommend all of her churches to support and encourage their officers and communicant members to remove their children from public schools (elementary, middle, high schools, and post-secondary schools)* and provide a thoroughly Christian education, thereby seeking God's covenant blessings for their children and families, in order to glorify God and for the good of Christ's Church. Underlining mine.

 

So, no public school at all? NO COLLEGE?

 

I'd run, screaming, in the other direction.

 

 

There are plenty of college options. Just not the state ones.;)

[Dirtroad]

Quite a few new Presbyterian churches have emerged in the last (hmmm) 25 -35 years and were basically regional in their development. The Reformed Presbyterians & PCA (Pres. Church in America) are similar... but PCA got started in the Birmingham, AL. I assume Reformed developed in the same manner.

 

Many churches left the Presbyterian USA churches b/c they felt the PCUSA churches were abandoning the TRUTH in scripture... with some even denying the diety of Christ.

 

We left the Baptist (Southern) Church & moved to the reformed faith PCA church in our area almost 8 years ago & have never regreted it. They really study the Bible deeply, with respect and conviction. It is the WORD of God and not a guide book or play book. We felt that the Baptist congregations in our area were living on "milk". The PCAs are living on "meat".

 

Your husband will have to wrestle with the King James issue. It is actually a translation that has been through multiple languages (if you count the really old English changes from Tyndale to today & Latin). Most of the new translations used in our church took the translation back to the oldest copies of scripture. I think hanging on to King James is like only singing the old hymns. It is comfortable & what we are used to... but that doesnt' mean it is the ONLY one. I hope he sees the sincerity of the members & elders of the congregation and will realize they are not using a false or erroneous translation.

 

If husband doesn't want to go.... you dont' want to force the issue b/c the friction is not good. You also don't want to hear the complaining & moaning. HOWEVER, you might consider joining one of their Bible Study groups or Cell groups. You can still attend as a family where he prefers, but you can develop in the word in the bible study. PLUS.... he may come around as he notices all the things that you are learning.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

When my husband and I started looking for a reformed church a couple of years ago we had quite a difficult time. We wanted a church we could be members of and knew that it couldn't be a Presbyterian one because of our differing views on baptism but we did visit a Presbyterian church while we searched. We ended up finding our church through the Founders Ministries. You might want to look there if you haven't already. The link is http://www.founders.org/misc/chlist/index.html . The churches listed are at least claiming to be both baptist and reformed in theology but you of course need to use your own discernment.

 

Thankfully our search was short. We found a home schooling and family friendly church with which we could join up with as members. You could always ask the pastor of the Presbyterian church you mentioned if he could recommend any reformed baptist churches - I know our pastor and another local Presbyterian pastor refer people to one another to help people find a reformed church they could become members of based on their personal convictions on non essential doctrinal differences. One thing I have personally noticed is that Reformed churches tend to be very clear about their doctrinal stand point on their web sites so when searching I would expect that to be very easy to find out.

 

Coincidently, we happen to come from a KJV only background as well. :)

 

Blessings in your search.

[Erica in PA]

Dh and I are Baptists and I am just starting to study the Reformed faith. I have shared a bit with him about what I have learned. Long story short, we are planning to visit some different churches and this Sunday will be visiting a Presbyterian church which is about a 35 minute ride from us.

 

One reason we are choosing to visit this particular church is that they are pro-homeschooling and when I checked their website, I found they are family integrated. They have allowed our hs group to use their building for group acticvities free of charge even though nobody in our group is a member there. Dh has spoken briefly to the pastor on the phone and asked a few questions. The pastor seems very nice and willing to discuss things with dh. I saw on the church website that the pastor is a former Baptist, so he will know where dh and I are coming from.:tongue_smilie:

 

Obviously this will be very different for us. Dh and I are KJV people. They use NASB or NKJV. DH may really dislike this. We have a background in the Independent Fundamental Baptist church that KJV is the only acceptable translation and we do personally prefer it. Other than that, dh judges a church on the preaching. We also like friendly people.

 

So, what do I want to know, you ask.:bigear:

 

First, I ask for prayer that the Lord will lead us regarding this church and if He wants us there, dh will know.

 

Also, this is the denomination that the church belongs to and I want to ask opinions and insight from Reformed Christians regarding it.

 

http://www.rpcga.org//

 

I obviously do not know a lot about Reformed churches and the various groups. From looking at the site, they look okay. What do you think ? Are they good or is there anything negative or strange about them?

 

Thank you. I was up until the wee hours last night reading through the threads on the Dark Side Social group.:lol:

 

God Bless you all.

 

Not sure if you are aware of this, but there are many nondenominational churches that also have reformed theology. Our church is called Calvary Bible Church, and the teaching/preaching is from a reformed perspective, but in other ways we are probably more similar to a Baptist church than to a Presbyterian church. I just wanted to mention this to you, in case this church doesn't work out for you. A nondenominational church *might* be an easier transition than going to a Presbyterian church.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

That's a good point. My church is called Grace Fellowship Church. It's not part of a denomination but is reformed in theology and practices credo baptism.

 

Also, some Southern Baptist Churches are reformed. The denomination started out reformed, became largely arminian and has in recent times been reforming .. or re-reforming, one might say :) Anyway, it's hit or miss but don't totally discount the Southern Baptists.

Edited August 19, 2009 by RecumbentHeart

[Rebecca77]

From a Baptist background you may want to go with a Reformed Baptistic church. By that I mean a church that teaches the doctrines of grace, yet practices believer baptism by immersion.

 

The following is the best directory of such churches we found and is where my husband located our current church.

http://www.farese.com/rbcd/usa.htm

 

Here is another association of such churches

http://www.firefellowship.org

[OhM]

I just went up to the ELCA website, and am surprised, too, that I couldn't find a better statement of faith/doctrine. It is very vague. All I know is that the church we attended up in ND was open about their doctrine, etc. and were reformed, with no apologies! If this helps, here is a very good article by Michael Horton of The White Horse Inn about the history of reformed churches in America - there's also a question answered in the FAQs about why The White Horse Inn doesn't recommend churches, but wants to educate listeners and readers on how to KNOW on their own how to pick a church ...this is a very good article and applicable to this whole thread!

 

I think you may be getting the Evangelical Free Church mixed up with the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America). While the former may be reformed (I don't know much about it - except there's one practically in my friend's backyard and it looks like a nice church:001_smile:), I do know that Lutherans have some basic doctrinal differences with Reformed churches.

 

Here's a quick hit from Wiki:

"Lutheran theology differs considerably from Reformed theology in a variety of ways, including Christology, the purpose of God's Law, divine grace, whether one is "once saved always saved," and predestination."

 

Here's a chart that I found interesting - to help you keep track of all the different flavors.:D

[sunflowerlady]

Ok, I checked the links, googled, and looked in the phone book and I cannot find any Reformed Baptist churches in my area.

 

Dh does want to go visit this church on Sunday. If he doesn't want to go back, I will totally respect that.:) He is an easy going guy, so it a wait and see thing.

 

At this point we don't know if we are actually going to leave our Baptist church completely. It's another wait and see thing.

 

Thanks for all the input and links.

[Michelle My Bell]

My husband and I also are from the Independent Baptist Background. In fact my husband is a Pastor. Over the years we too have turned reformed, but we are not in line the PCA church. First of all, we do not hold to infant baptism or some of the other covenental views.

 

That said, we do hold to the doctrines of grace and are leaning towards the Southern Baptists Founders Movement. Voddie Baucham has planted a Reformed Southern Baptist Church, Family Integrated Church that sounds like what you are looking for. He has written an excellent book called Family Driven Faith that I would recommend you read. Also google him as you can listen to him online. I think familiarizing yourself with him will help you in your search for a church. Here is his church website: http://www.gracefamilybaptist.net/GFBC2/Welcome.html

 

And here is a website with like minded churches. Use discretion: http://ncfic.org/

 

If you want to talk more, email me.

 

God Bless,

Michelle

Edited August 19, 2009 by Michelle My Bell

[BikeBookBread]

I think you may be getting the Evangelical Free Church mixed up with the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America). While the former may be reformed (I don't know much about it - except there's one practically in my friend's backyard and it looks like a nice church:001_smile:), I do know that Lutherans have some basic doctrinal differences with Reformed churches.

 

Here's a quick hit from Wiki:

"Lutheran theology differs considerably from Reformed theology in a variety of ways, including Christology, the purpose of God's Law, divine grace, whether one is "once saved always saved," and predestination."

 

Here's a chart that I found interesting - to help you keep track of all the different flavors.:D

 

OOPS! I DID attend a EFCA!!! I typed ELCA by accident. THe link is DEFINITELY is to EFCA. Thanks for pointing that out :)

[redheadeddaughter]

I just want to say that I think it's wonderful you are exploring the reformed faith and doctrine and clearly are excited enough to search out a new church! I kind of fell into it about 10 years ago and sometimes feel like I'm the only woman I know who even reads any theology beyond the average "woman's study." (Not that the last study of the book of Daniel was bad or anything...the Bible is powerful no matter how you study it I think) So I love to hear about other women (men too of course) and families digging deeper into their faith and history. So exciting.

 

The hard part, of course, is to find the right church. Honestly we still haven't found one, although we've visited alot of very nice ones. That's my trouble. I too, like "friendly" people (I tend to be introverted and need that to put roots down in a church) and I find the Baptist/Community even Calvary Chapels tend toward the friendly open style I like, while the Presbyterians have all the meat and doctrine I like! I found the best thing for me is just to go with my husband's gut. How does he feel... can he take instruction and teaching from the pastor without feeling "talked down to" etc. Maybe the fact that this pastor is a previous Baptist will help with the transition? I love the fact that they are so supportive of Homeschooling and wish we could find that. That isn't always the case with Pres. churches, although not uncommon. (Our local one has most the kids in a nearby private school).

Well, that's my rambling opinion. I don't know about that particular denomination I'm afraid. I think Vision Forum might have a link or searchable database of churches... even home churches. You might want to check that out. Happy church hunting!

[angela in ohio]

This article describes the history of the RPCGA.

 

This denomination made news a few years ago when they moved to remove R.C. Sproul, Jr. as an elder of his church, which is no longer with the denomination.

[KrissiK]

This is a great website for Reformed Theology. http://www.monergism.com/directory/ They have a listing of all Reformed Denominations, both Baptist and Presbyterian. We belong to a Presbyterian church that is part of the newly formed (sort of newly formed) Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) denomination. We are getting a lot of the Presbyterian Churches that are fleeing the PC-USA denomination. We don't agree with all the tenets of the Presbyterian Denomination (we are credo-bapitists), but we love our church and it's the only reformed on for miles around.

[OhM]

OOPS! I DID attend a EFCA!!! I typed ELCA by accident. THe link is DEFINITELY is to EFCA. Thanks for pointing that out :)

 

LOL- as if that's not confusing enough, I belong to an AFLC church - Association of Free Lutheran Congregations!

[sunflowerlady]

Update- I checked the phone book again and did find ONE Reformed Baptist Church. :) I checked the website and it will probably be on our list for a visit sometime in the near future.

[EmeraldGirl]

FWIW, in every denomination, whether it be PCA, EFree, Sovereign Grace, etc, the churches are not exact mirror images of each other. Doctrinally they may line up with their theology, but practically speaking it is a mixed bag. I know, BTDT. I love the Reformed faith doctrines, but don't always agree with the practices. I agree with another poster that these people are the most Biblically learned in my experience and can speak and pray beyond what I can think or imagine most times, so I seek out their wisdom. One reason might be b/c where many folks in today's culture are running from denominations and doctrine due to past misunderstandings, these folks are not afraid of doctrine.

 

As a family we have studied the Westminster Confession of Faith, The Shorter & Larger Catechisms (Scottish Reformed), the Canons or Dort and 3 Forms of Unity (Dutch Reformed), but both came from Baptist backgrounds and were well into our late 30s before we could clearly articulate the gospel and apologetics. My 3 older boys can and have been able to have intelligent discussions with many unsaved people already in their relatively short lives. (Way of the Master Radio on the street helped us tremendously with that).

 

We attend a PCA church currently and this is our 3rd (have been with Dutch Reformed, RPCNA, RPCUS, etc). Each was vastly different which makes sense given we live in a very diverse culture today, especially in our beliefs. You need to pray and decide what is the most important thing to you when deciding on belonging to any given congregation and what you can forebear with. My husband is an exclusive Psalmist in heart, but knows that there are no churches like that around us, so the gospel-preaching is #1, not a social gospel, but one where each week it is not assumed from the pulpit that everyone in the pews is saved. As a matter of fact, we are challenged each week to not be complacent.

 

We struggle b/c out of a/b 250 families, there are under 10 that homeschool, so we lack the like-mindedness there. However, I can tell you that we have been places where there was way too much pride in doing everything "right" in our worship or child-rearing, that we began to develop critical and judgmental spirits which I saw as sin and I wanted to flee from there. And here I am experiencing real grace in a much fresh way.

 

So I write all of this to say seek the Lord and know that we still live in a fallen world and if you find the perfect church, run fast, b/c it will soon change since you are probably not perfect (just something a pastor told me once).:D

[EmeraldGirl]

Just an FYI, Sovereign Grace Churches (sort of a denomination) are Reformed Baptist in doctrine and practice and the pastor that started these churches was George Harris, a homeschool father, if I am not mistaken. They have a main website where you can find churches in your area.

[EmeraldGirl]

Oh, I so appreciate Voddie Bauchum and Paul Washer who seem like the modern-day Calvin's IMO in the Southen Baptist Church. I do struggle though with some of the "exclusiveness" when you are an outsider trying to enter these family-integrated churches. While I really appreciate the direction they are moving, in my experience the one I attended was very "in-grown" and almost couldn't relate to those who did things "differently" or thought differently, or practiced differently, almost as if they lacked the very grace that they taught so highly in the congregations towards other Christians. It was difficult for me to swallow after awhile because I was turning into something I did not like, very judgmental. Lord have mercy on me.

[petepie2]

Maybe you could try doing a church search at http://www.9marks.org/

 

Our church is an independent Baptist church, but we are reformed in doctrine, i.e. doctrines of grace.....also, there are other Baptist churches in our area that are reformed but not part of the "Reformed Baptist" denomination....you won't know this by looking in the phone book....we registered on the 9marks website and some have found our church that way....

[BikeBookBread]

LOL- as if that's not confusing enough, I belong to an AFLC church - Association of Free Lutheran Congregations!

 

I'm so tired right now....I read "AFLAC" not AFLC and now I'm going to go to bed quacking... :lol::lol::lol: Thanks for the giggle.

[BikeBookBread]

I do struggle though with some of the "exclusiveness" when you are an outsider trying to enter these family-integrated churches. While I really appreciate the direction they are moving, in my experience the one I attended was very "in-grown" and almost couldn't relate to those who did things "differently" or thought differently, or practiced differently, almost as if they lacked the very grace that they taught so highly in the congregations towards other Christians. It was difficult for me to swallow after awhile because I was turning into something I did not like, very judgmental. Lord have mercy on me.

 

My husband and I just listened to a podcast from The White Horse Inn radio show (they also publish Modern Reformation magazine) last night. Roughly the second half of the broadcast discussed the tendency within some churches, reformed included, to hold onto their ethnic or cultural distinctiveness so much that they project an "unwelcoming" vibe. I don't think you are referring above to cultural differences, but the points they make hit the mark. To listen to the podcast, click here, and select "Paul's Letter to the Colossians 2".

 

My favorite quote from the show: "those who are in union with Christ are drawn to the beauty of the Gospel" -- this is what should draw one to a church...

Edited August 20, 2009 by BikeBookBread
clarification about the podcast

[Baseballmom]

Oh, I so appreciate Voddie Bauchum and Paul Washer who seem like the modern-day Calvin's IMO in the Southen Baptist Church. I do struggle though with some of the "exclusiveness" when you are an outsider trying to enter these family-integrated churches. While I really appreciate the direction they are moving, in my experience the one I attended was very "in-grown" and almost couldn't relate to those who did things "differently" or thought differently, or practiced differently, almost as if they lacked the very grace that they taught so highly in the congregations towards other Christians. It was difficult for me to swallow after awhile because I was turning into something I did not like, very judgmental. Lord have mercy on me.

I love Paul Washer. He preached at our church for a few months while we were searching for a pastor. He is the most humble man I have ever met.

[Baseballmom]

Just an FYI, Sovereign Grace Churches (sort of a denomination) are Reformed Baptist in doctrine and practice and the pastor that started these churches was George Harris, a homeschool father, if I am not mistaken. They have a main website where you can find churches in your area.

:iagree:

[Melissa in CA]

Just an FYI, Sovereign Grace Churches (sort of a denomination) are Reformed Baptist in doctrine and practice and the pastor that started these churches was George Harris, a homeschool father, if I am not mistaken. They have a main website where you can find churches in your area.

 

While I do enjoy the various mp3 conference downloads from Sovereign Grace Ministries with speakers such as Joshua Harris, Al Mohler, John Piper, CJ Mahaney and Mark Dever, I do not like that they (Sovereign Grace ministries) are Charismatic Reformed. Having been raised in a Charismatic church environment, I personally want nothing to do with that doctrine. :tongue_smilie: So, just a heads-up....there are reformed churches who are also Charismatic in doctrine. It's an odd combo to be sure.

Now, having said that, I have absolutely loved some of their conference messages, especially their New Attitude conferences. I don't know that all the speakers are Charismatic in doctrine (John Piper???) so perhaps that's why I have enjoyed them so. Very rarely have I heard any Charismatic mumbo-jumbo in the sermons.

 

Also, having family that attended, and finally fled, an Independent Fundamental Baptist church after almost 10 years, I beg you to examine what they have taught you. Your eyes are going to be opened widely if/when you leave that church environment...and for the better. ;)

 

I also agree that you CAN find a doctrinally reformed church without going with a denomination such as presbyterian. It's going to take some investigative work on your part...but I'm pretty sure you can find one that is not also reformed, but baptist in nature.

[OhM]

I'm so tired right now....I read "AFLAC" not AFLC and now I'm going to go to bed quacking... :lol::lol::lol: Thanks for the giggle.

 

Ha - funny you should say that, that's a joke among some of our members. :D

 

ETA: And I just noticed it goes along with your avatar!

[i.love.lucy]

My head is spinning... :001_huh::willy_nilly:

 

I am reading, listening, reading. But that doesn't help to find a church. Dirtroad pm'd me a church in my area (thanks again Paula!) that is Presbyterian - PCA. Looks like a nice place, but very different from what we are used to. We come from a So Baptist background. My dh can barely clap after a song much less raise his hands during worship! ;) We are now in a great church - it's a mega one - that is slowly but surely turning emergent we think. I have always been in mega churches so it's hard for me to imagine a tiny church.

 

And my head is just swimming with all the denominational possibilities to try out (we are in a pretty large metro area so we have a lot of choices) while at the same time trying to narrow down the ones that are the best fit. Each one has a problem I think, so Lisa your advice to pray and pray and pray some more about it, and then drop the idea that you will find the "perfect" church is very good.

 

BUT, what do you compromise on? i.e: I can't get on board with infant baptism. I have some sources to do more research on why/how that's even biblical (not to start a debate, just using this as an example) - so would this be something that we might have to compromise on? If so, how is something like baptism a peripheral concept that you'd agree to disagree on?

 

Not meaning to start a debate on this particular area, at all, I just keep hearing things like "yes, that denom is good, but keep in mind they do this or that". It seems to me that you either feel like the policies, procedures, beliefs, etc of the church are biblical - or they are not.

 

Can you see why my head is spinning?!?!:tongue_smilie:

Edited August 20, 2009 by i.love.lucy

[BikeBookBread]

I don't know that all the speakers are Charismatic in doctrine (John Piper???) so perhaps that's why I have enjoyed them so.

 

 

I really don't think so :) I just went to their website (http://www.hopeingod.org) and took a glance through their statement of faith and skimmed the elder's statement of faith as well (which is much more specific) and see nothing that would indicate that Bethlehem Baptist (his church) is a "Charismatic" church, although the church does describe themselves this way:

 

 

What Do We Believe?

 

 

 

We are Calvinistic in our theology, Baptistic in our church polity, and

charismatic

in our affections. That is, we trust wholly in the sovereign grace of God in and over all things. Under Christ and his Word the congregation is the final authority in church governance with a Council of Elders who oversee and teach the people. We practice and teach believer's baptism. And we are committed to pursue all the fullness of God with use of his spiritual gifts in the life of the church.

I think that they use the term "charismatic" (present or godly gift) referring to just the general gifts of the Spirit, kind of like many non-Catholic churches use the term, "catholic" meaning universal/worldwide. But not "Charismatic" like the religious movement. Correct me if I'm wrong, please!!!!

 

Speaking of Sovereign Grace ministries, I just downloaded their new kids' album "To Be Like Jesus" from iTunes...the lyrics are WONDERFUL although the music is a bit loud for my old lady tastes...in fact it's the rockin-est (not a word I know) album we own!! But the girls LOVE it and are SINGING the lyrics.

[lionfamily1999]

I've known a lot of people that started churches at home, with their friends. That way they can avoid many of the denominational issues that people struggle with.

 

Someone wrote something rather anti-charasmatic, I'm wondering, what's the problem with charasmatic?

 

Good conversation :)

[BikeBookBread]

Can I just say that I have loved this thread? Thanks for the good information everyone! I feel like I should print it off for our next PCS (military move) and church search (the worst thing about moving, in my opinion, with finding a dentist and beauty salon a far second and third).

[sunflowerlady]

I am so glad I asked my question here.:) This has turned into a great thread.

 

We are not in an independent fundamental Baptist church right now. We left one a few years ago and have been attending an American Baptist church. To further complicate things, there is a liberal American Baptist church and a conservative one. Ours is the conservative one.:lol: It is similar to Southern Baptist.

 

So far I found the Presbyterian church we plan to visit and a Reformed Baptist. There are very few Presbyterian churches around and only one that is Reformed Baptist. Other than that, I would have to dig around and investigate, but at least we have a place to start.

 

BTW, I am so frustrated that I can only get dial up internet. So many sermons and such have been recommended here, but it is just impossible when you have dial up. I am in a rural area and in one little pocket that can't get high speed. Unless, of course, I go with satellite internet and pay outrageous prices. No thanks. :glare:

[Cricket]

You could also try looking up churches and pastors listed at FIRE (Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals). Our church is reformed Baptist in beliefs but not affiliated with any denomination. (It was a Brethren church until about 10 years ago.) I found our church here in AZ and back in OR through that website. As a pp stated, not all reformed churches are affiliated with a specific denomination. The church we attended back in OR was still in the North American Baptist Conference but didn't have anything to do with the denomination. (I wonder if they will ever get around to leaving it. :))

[Brenda in FL]

My head is spinning... :001_huh::willy_nilly:

 

 

BUT, what do you compromise on? i.e: I can't get on board with infant baptism. I have some sources to do more research on why/how that's even biblical (not to start a debate, just using this as an example) - so would this be something that we might have to compromise on? If so, how is something like baptism a peripheral concept that you'd agree to disagree on?

:tongue_smilie:

 

Baptism was something that we finally concluded we could not compromise on. We were southern Baptist and then went to a PCA church for 10 years. We never agreed with infant baptism and this dod not prevent us from becoming members, but it did prevent dh from becoming an elder or deacon. But we loved the church and so stayed.

 

When we moved, we searched out a reformed credo-Baptist church, an with that we found other issues to be a concern (we thought our only issue was baptism!). But some churches require you to believe (if you aspire to serve as an elder/deacon) in a literal 6 day creation, or have specific beliefs about end-times, etc. Topics that were either the opposite of what we were teaching our children or that we were teaching our children to have an open-mind since the Bible is not conclusive on the matter. (the examples listed are just examples). Another question to ask: is the congregation legalistic? we did not find any that were - but we wanted to watch out for that and we did ask.

 

For the OP and anyone else, here are two of the websites we used for our search: 9marks.org and founders ministry.

 

One other suggestion: schedule an appointment with the senior pastor (either your dh or both of you) to ask all the questions you need to ask. This will help you to really get a good idea for the direction of the church. You'll be able to find out much more that just the typical Sunday morning visit!

 

And if you are in the Atlanta area - I can give you an excellent recommendation for a reformed Baptist church!!