Can you help me figure out my 5 year old DD?

[ChristusG]

Please help me decide whether my daughter is merely quirky or whether she has some form of OCD. I've always wondered whether or not she may have OCD, but she is getting to be very high maintanence here lately. She is five years old. I dont know whether or not to take her to talk to someone or if I'm just looking too much into her quirks.

 

I'll just list her "quirks" and see what you think....

 

She's always needed the food on her plate where it is not touching....at all. She must use different utensils for each food. And if something intermingles, a meltdown begins.

 

She has a sensitive gag reflex. If she sees a crumb of food sitting on the table, she gags. If there's lint anywhere, she gags. If there's food dropped on a shirt, she gags. We have to make sure there's no crumbs or little particles of anything in sight so that she doesnt gag and "freak out." And by "freak out" I mean that she goes into "drama queen mode" where she'll get up and run across the room telling us to "get it! get it!" And she will not sit back down until the crumb, lint, etc has been cleaned up.

 

She went through a particularly frustrating time last summer. Suddenly, she refused to go into her Sunday School class, she would not go play soccer on the field with her team, she would not leave our side. We talked to her endlessly about whether someone was mean to her, whether she got in trouble by a teacher, whether someone touched her inappropriately, whether she was afraid, etc, etc. Nothing ever came of it. A few months passed and she was fine again. She went into Sunday School again and played soccer without crying. And also, during this time, she began "hoarding" trash. She'd see a piece of trash on the ground outside and want to pick it up and keep it. She wouldnt throw away any trash in our home. She'd stuff it into her desk and keep it there. She'd save the wrappes to fruit snacks. She'd cry and freak out if she got a new toy and we tried to throw away the wrapper. Thank goodness this only lasted for a few months because I was losing my mind.

 

She also went through a stage last summer where she would ask "what" all the time. We knew that she could hear us, but we took her to the pediatrician anyways for a hearing test. Her hearing was fine and her ears were clear. But every time we would say something, her response would be "what?" However, if we stopped and said "Paisley, what did we say?" She could tell us what we said. So it's like the "what" was just another quirk. Same thing happened late last year. She would "hurt" herself and say "ouch". We HAD to repsond with "it's okay" or she would freak out and cry until we responded that way. However, she didn't really hurt herself....if her leg would brush something, she would say "ouch". If she barely bumped her arm, she would say "ouch." And we know it did not really hurt her. She'd never cry unless we failed to respond with "it's okay" and we even asked her if it really hurt and she would say no. Lately she's been licking her arms, fingers, hands. And she tells me "Mommy, I licked myself." And I have to acknowledge her and say "okay" or else she gets upset. Not to mention I've been working with her on NOT licking herself due to the hygeine issues. But when I began bringing the licking to her attention, that's when she started telling me every single time she licks herself.

 

She's very very very shy. When someone talks to her and she does not know them, she will not even acknowledge them. Doesn't look at them, doesn't respond to them, just pretends they are not even there. But with our family, grandparents, aunts, she is just wonderful. She's interactive, playful, loving, etc. But if she does not know them, she'll ignore them. I've worked with her over and over about this. I think there's a line between being shy and rude. I'm very shy myself....I cannot carry on a conversation to save my life. You'll find me sitting alone in a group of people. So I know what it is like. But I feel she's just being rude by ignoring people she does not know. I feel she should make eye contact and give them a one word answer if they ask her a question. But she will not even do that.

 

She has no friends. The only kids she plays with is her little sister and her 2 cousins that we see about once a month. She will not talk to kids at church, at soccer, storytime, etc. While I'm thrilled that her little sister is her best friend and would not have it any other way, I wish she'd at least make some contact with other children. But she will ignore them if they make any contact with her. She wont speak to them.

 

She's always had a speech issue. At 20 months old she was still making noises only, no words at all. So I had her evaluated and she qualified for therapy. She was in therapy for about a year. At the end of that year her vocabulary was normal, her sentences were normal, etc. But her articulation was still bad. Her therapist said this would come with time and she tested out of speech. This was right before she turned three years old. By the time she was four years old, she was still having articulation issues. Even I could not understand her often. So I had her evaluated again and she qualified for therapy again. So she took therapy last year through our public school system. She'll qualify again this year too. I still have LOTS of trouble understanding her. Again, her sentences, structure, and vocabulary are all within (if not beyond) her age....but I have trouble understanding her. I understand her and our two year old about the same.

 

I often wonder if some of her issues with not talking to anyone stems from the fact that she's scared they may not be able to understand her. Because honestly, I dont see how anyone outside our family understands much of what she says. I've asked her if she's scared people will not understand her, but I dont think she's old enough to grasp that fact and vocalize it to us.

 

She's very particular about things sometimes. She is not over excessive about washing her hands, but she's very conscious of if they are dirty or not. She will not touch money very often because she has to wash her hands afterwards. This is her doing, not mine. I mentioned ONCE that money is pretty dirty and we should not handle a bunch of money and then go putting our hands all into our mouth. Now she washes her hands after she handles any money. She's very conscious about washing her hands often. And again, it's not over excessive like I've heard of some OCD people doing, but I can see where it could very easily migrate that way one day. Hopefully not, but I can see the possibility.

 

If she gets a new stuffed animal, she does not want her new one to touch any of her "old" ones because they are "dirty." They are not old and they are not dirty by any stretch of the word. She takes very good care of them and keeps them clean. But she has a meltdown if a new stuffed animal touches and "old" one.

 

She has started a tic where she will blink her eyes all the time. I understand tics, I have mild ones myself. But I wish she didnt have to go through the annoyance of tics. This is her first one and it has actually gotten better of the past few days. But it was definitely noticeable by our family members.

 

She makes it difficult to go into stores with her. She will talk obessively about everything in the store. This seems to be more than just a talkative child thing. She'll point to things, tell me to look at everything she points at, and if I do not stop and look, she freaks out and has a meltdown. A quick trip into Wal Mart could easily turn into thirty or fourty-five minutes because she must point to things and I must look at them if I want to avoid a meltdown.

 

Whenever she watches a TV show, she calls me every few minutes and tells me to look at something on the show. Or tells me something they said. I mean this can be something like "Clifford said he's hungry." She will pause it, call me, and tell me this. ALL THE TIME. In a thirty minute show, this can easily happen 10 or 15 times. Random things like "Clifford is holding a ball."

 

****CONTINUED IN NEXT POST.....IT SAID I HAD TOO MANY CHARACTERS IN ONE POST********

[ChristusG]

She's a rule follower. Sometimes to an obsessive extent. For example, she knows I do not allow them to eat a lot of junk food. But I do not ban it completely, I still allow them to have small amounts of it. If she's over at my parents house and they offer her a BITE of a cookie or a tiny piece of candy, she will not eat it until they have contacted me. Even if my mom says it is okay for her to eat it, she will tell them to call me and ask me. And she does it frantically, almost like she's scared to eat it till I say so. She has never been yelled at for eating junk food, never gotten in trouble, never anything like that. She just knows that we try to steer away from it most of the time. Even if my husband tells her she can have a cookie, that's not good enough for her. She tells him that she has to ask mommy.

 

And here's an extreme example. One time she saw the Spongebob show on TV. I nicely explained to her that I would prefer us not to watch Spongebob. She willingly complied, as she always does with specific rules that I set. A few days later, we were walking through the store and she suddenly becomes very withdrawn. She looks afraid, she puts her hands over her eyes, and she will not speak and tell me what's the matter. I was completely lost....I had no idea what was wrong with her. It took 15 minutes of coaxing before I finally realized that she had seen a shirt with Spongebob on it. And that's what caused the reaction she displayed. I tried to explain to her that seeing a shirt with Spongebob on it is fine, seeing toys and pictures of him is fine....I just didnt' want her watching it on TV. But this same reaction continued every time she saw a picture of Spongebob for several months.

 

And she asks "Why" all the time. All. The. Time. I'm sooooo glad that she's curious and inquisitive, but she asks "why" non-stop. I find myself saying things like " I dont know" or "It just is" most of the time, because her questions really do not have answers. Questions like "why did they paint the wall white?" I'll say "because they liked it." And she'll say "why?" And my answer will be "they just do." And things like "what is that spot on the ground?" I'll say "I dont know sweetie." And she'll continue with "But what is it?? What is it??? Why is it there???"

 

She's extremely tempermental. We just feel like we walk on eggshells sometimes to keep her from having a meltdown.

 

I just get so frustrated sometimes. I know that in the grand scheme of things that could be wrong with a child, we have it easy. But it is so frustrating a lot of the time. Does this sound like OCD or just a quirky child? Or something else? Some of these things go through stages or phases and then taper off.

 

I just wonder if I should take her to see someone, and if so, who? I've mentioned things to our pediatrician before and she seemed to just say that kids have quirks sometimes. I believe it is more than that. I do not want my DD medicated or anything like that.....I guess I just more want something for me. Maybe how to handle things with her better. Do I give into her "quirks" or do I stand my ground and make her do things my way? Do I repeat things just how she wants me to? Or do I stand my ground and refuse to repeat them how she wants? I just don't know.

 

I know that all of this has made DD seem horrible.....but let me add that DD 5 has some truly wonderful qualities as well. She loves Jesus and talks about him often. She loves singing to Him. She is the absolute best big sister that a little sister could ever ask for. She watches over her little sister, plays well with her, loves her. She has always been mature for her age. She has NEVER gotten into anything that she is not allowed to (never, not even as a toddler or baby). She follows the rules. She's responsible. I could honestly leave her alone with our two year old to babysit her and she would do an excellent job of watching over her (of course, I would never do that though). She's very curious and inquisitive about the world and how it works. She's eager to learn, loves to do crafts, plays on a soccer team, very empathtic and caring towards people. So has a lot of good qualities....but I cannot help but wonder if she'd benefit from some sort of therapy?

 

Does anyone have any insight? Any recommendations or advice? If you made it this far, thank you so much for reading!!!

 

Again, I'm sooooo sorry this is so long LOL!

[shadowcat]

She doesn't sound horrible at all!! She sounds unhappy, or at least less happy than she could be.

 

You will not get a reliable diagnosis from a web site. The problems you mentioned are troubling. If you can, I'd suggest you bring her to a psychologist for an evaluation.

 

Until you know what is going on with your dd you won't be able to reach a good decision about how to react to her behaviors. I really think that seeing a professional is the way to go here.

 

Therapy is a good idea, but your dd won't participate on her own. If you can find a therapist who will have you in every session that might work.

Edited August 17, 2009 by shadowcat

[Carol in Cal.]

I wonder whether she has a sensory integration issue of being resistent? You might want to check out "The Out of Sync Child" and see what you think. I understand that there are excellent therapies for this with occupational therapists, and you can remediate mild cases at home with a bit of advice (I did.)

 

I think it's too soon to say whether there is anything else going on, as 5 is still really young for mild social issues to be obviously a disorder or not. There sounds to me like there MIGHT be a SLIGHT possibility of a very mild Asbergers, but it does not sound likely to me at all. Really, not at all. I am only mentioning it so that you can read up and see what you thing.

[MariannNOVA]

but I would get some references for reputable Child Psychologists and I would go from there. I am all for finding the professional and paying them to find out and tell me. Print out your post and bring it with you when you go -- I find that I go blank about alot of things that I would like to mention when I get into the office and the question is asked.

[JenneinCA]

I can't begin to figure out what might be going on. I would print out the post you made and take it to your child's doctor and see if he/she can point you in the right direction. Hopefully he/she will either know what is going on or refer you to someone else who can help you and your child.

[WarriorMama]

I'm in no way qualified to provide a diagnosis but I do have OCD, and some of these things raise red flags for me. I would be taking her to get evaluated ASAP.

 

The things that sound potentially obsessive-compulsive to me: Refusing to have food touch and needing different utensils, extreme distress at small particles of dirt or food, trash hoarding, needing you to repeat certain phrases, contamination issues (worried about touching money and 'old' animals touching new ones), the junk food and Sponge Bob issues

 

Any of these could be a weird kid quirk...all kids have their random things. It's the fact that there are so many. And what really gets me is that they last a while and then fade - to be replaced by something else. OCD is an anxiety disorder, and the rituals or 'quirks' keep the fear at bay or at least manageable. The rituals come and go, but the anxiety is always there.

 

I hope you figure it out soon. Your daughter sounds like a great kid, and this must be hard for all of you.

[the4Rs]

I have absolutely no help to offer as I am struggling with my 5 year old too with having some OCD tendencies.

 

I just posted about some bathroom issues we are having with my daughter and I got a lot of good advice from the ladies who posted. I am going to start a checklist of behaviors and triggers for those behaviors to take with us to the doctor so that we can get referred on to a specialist. But we are also going to rule out some physical issues that might be causing this too.

 

My heart hurts for you.

 

And I sure did recognize the way your daughter needs to be acknowledged constantly the way she wants you to respond. My daughter is that way and I never thought about it from an OCD point of view but it makes sense. My daughter will also have major meltdowns unless I respond to her. And if I do but not very loudly she'll keep repeating getting louder and louder until I respond or repeat exactly what she said to me.

 

My daughter's OCD type behavior has been going on for a long time. As a toddler/preker she would constantly line up all her toys. I know kids do this anyway but she lined up EVERYTHING into straight lines all the time. It was weird. People would comment on it a lot.

 

She went through a phase of being afraid of baths and would scream bloody murder when I had to bathe her. Bubble bath finally helped her get over that.

 

She has a need to stand at our front window whenever someone pulls out of our driveway to see them leave. If she is in another room and doesn't see them leave she melts down and cries (although this is starting to get better) And to tie into that, I must blow numerous kisses and wave a lot as I leave the house or she gets upset.

 

She has to brush her teeth before she pees for bed. Try to mess with that routine and she gets all withdrawn and weepy and won't function.

 

She also has a problem with feeling like she has peed her pants (which usually starts in the evening every night) and she holds her legs together, gets up frequently from bed crying and frustrated with herself even though most of the time there is no pee in her panties. She obssesses about pee at night but is fine during the day.

 

I post these so you know you are not a lone with these bizarre behaviors.

[hillfarm]

OTOH, several of the things you describe sound like my dd when she was 5 (now 10) and she eventually grew out of them. All the "What" and "Why" questions--we went to the Dr. for a hearing test also;). Temperamental, frequently calling me in to see something on tv. Lots of crying fits and meltdowns if things were not to her liking.

 

However, some of the things you mention might be symptomatic of more serious issues. I would take her in for evaluation just to get peace of mind, if not a diagnosis.

 

Be sure to pay more attention to her when she is being good, and reinforce the times she is being brave or flexible about things that normally bother her. Is she able to handle the lint or crumbs, etc. any better if she is having a great time or otherwise distracted? It might be something to which you could slowly help her desensitize.

[gingersmom]

I am no doctor but there sounds like there are a host of different things going on at once for your daughter.

 

If it was my child I would start with the pediatrician and then get a complete psychological, speech and occupational therapy evaluations.

 

Can you imagine how hard it is at age 5 if even your own mother has a hard time understanding you?

 

Add to that all the other things going on. I just want to give her a big hug.

[Cera]

It sounds like an awful lot of "quirks" for one kid.

 

I think all kids have their issues (my 5 year old won't use public restrooms) but if they are bothersome it never hurts to see someone and try to sort them out (and it sounds like they are). A reputable child psychologist should be able to either set your mind at ease or help you work through whatever is troubling her.

[BMW]

When my son had several issues similar to your dd, we started with our pediatrician. I had things listed out like you do. That was a great suggestion to print this out. My pediatrican happened to be very knowledgeable regarding my sons challenges and suggested 2 books for me to get, which were very helpful. One is The Out of Sync Child (previously recommended) and the other was A Parent's Guide to Asperger Syndroe & High Functioning Autism. Maybe you can get these from a library. I am not suggesting that your dd has the same diagnosis, but several issues that you shared are covered in these two books.

 

A couple things I'd say to keep in mind... some Dr's are old school and aren't as knowledgeable with these issues. So, if the Dr. gives a blanket statement that dd will outgrow it all... or that she's just shy... and/or dismisses your concerns, please continue to seek help. (my son was misdiagnosed for several years) The other thing is, issues DO wax and wane... they cycle...

 

When I did get "things" checked out, I spoke privately with the Dr. and my son was not aware that there was "a problem", so to speak. He is definately an asperger boy with sensory integration issues, but he doesn't know that for himself yet. I didn't want him spending his childhood too aware of his oddities or thinking that he "needed fixed".

 

 

I hope you get some great answers for that dear girl... feel free to pm me if you'd like to share more... or if you have any questions.

[JFSinIL]

I am no doctor but there sounds like there are a host of different things going on at once for your daughter.

 

If it was my child I would start with the pediatrician and then get a complete psychological, speech and occupational therapy evaluations.

 

Can you imagine how hard it is at age 5 if even your own mother has a hard time understanding you?

 

Add to that all the other things going on. I just want to give her a big hug.

 

As a mom with one kid on the autism spectrum, and many "quirks" of my own, I have to agree that this kiddo needs an evaluation from professionals. She may have OCD - or Aspergers - or sensory issues - or a bit of everything.

[EKS]

I think there is an issue here. I think you should bring this up with the doctor. I see signs of sensory integration issues and OCD type issues. But I am not a professional. It sounds like your daughter is having a tough time and your doctor is a good place to start.

[ChristusG]

Thank you soooo much for all of your replies! It's good to hear other people confirm that what I'm seeing is not just in my head. On another board I'm a member of, someone mentioned to me that I should stop trying to label her because the world is full of labels and putting one on her is just hurting her.

 

That's not what I'm after. I'm not after a label. I'm after any possible help that she might need so that she can grow into a well-adjusted, confident adult one day.

 

I think I'll print out this list and make a visit to the ped soon. I'd love to make a visit without my DD....I'm not sure how I'd do that though.

[EKS]

 

I think I'll print out this list and make a visit to the ped soon. I'd love to make a visit without my DD....I'm not sure how I'd do that though.

 

Call them and say you would like to make an appointment with the doctor to talk about some behavior issues and say that you won't be bringing your daughter as you don't want her to overhear your concerns. They should know how to handle this. I have done this myself.

[mom2att]

Oh, that sounds like my son at five in so many ways! Like you with your dd, I worried about him and all of his little quirks. There were so many phases he went through--the "I will only wear underwear" phase, the smelling everything he picked up phase, the clearing his throat/sniffing phase . . . most of these he eventually outgrew, but when he was seven, almost eight it was the extreme anger phase that eventually got me to take him to the pediatrician for a referral. Unfortunately, she was no help at all and we decided to just wait it out again.

 

A year later he's a different kid. Still quirky in some ways, but most of his "strange" behaviors have mellowed as he's gotten older. We never got an official dx for the behaviors that were so concerning when he was younger, but I did find several books helpful in dealing with them and helping HIM deal with them. Those books were The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene, Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kircinka, and The Sensory-Sensitive Child by Karen Smith and Karen Gouze.

 

I do think it's a good idea to bring up your concerns with your pediatrician, and hopefully yours will be more helpful than mine was. In the meantime, maybe these books will help you as they did me. They really helped me see my son in a whole new light and understand how difficult it was to be who he was. Everything you wrote I have been through--hang in there!

[FairProspects]

We are in the process of this same thing right now. I'm trying to get DS evaluated for sensory issues and see about getting some occupational therapy, but I am also trying to reframe my perspective on a lot of these behaviors. It is good that he is more "attune" to his senses, because that also means he is highly observant and curious. This is where poets and artists come from, because DS can tell you exactly how the breeze feels on his face in a way that most people would ignore entirely.

 

I would like to help DS learn as many coping skills for daily situations as he can (water & movie theaters, etc.) but to be honest, I'm not sure I would really want his sensory issues to go away because that would mean he would be less aware, and less advanced in other areas. I'm sure it is the same situation for your DD. HTH!

[Caraway]

 

I've mentioned things to our pediatrician before and she seemed to just say that kids have quirks sometimes. I believe it is more than that.

 

I think this is your answer. Sometimes it is not the one behavior, but all the parts put together.

 

:grouphug:

[Strawberry Queen]

As far as not wanting to label a child.....I agree to an extent. No, you don't want to label a child so that everyone will see the diagnosis of _____ and not your sweet little girl. However, having a diagnosis that fits can enable the parent/teacher to look for information and to gain strategies to help the child function well. It's much easier to have a starting place to look for help.

 

As others have said, I would look for help and get a full evaluation done. If you don't get a helpful response then keep going until you get the help you need. A dear friend has a child with a cluster of issues and unfortunately the person she was referred to said to put her in school and it would solve all of her problems:001_huh::001_huh: Oh and this includes problems that aren't related to social interaction. So keep persevering.:grouphug: