Dirtroad Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) I need the section please as it is written in sections not pages at the website Thomas. There is quite a big area missing as to the subsections. Healthcare is rationed now by the insurance companies and unfortunately that is needed. Who determines and to what extent it is rationed is the real issue. What about lifestyle choices that lead to disease like smoking, obesity, drug abuse etc should all taxpayers share the burden equally for what are at first blush, self -imposed diseases?? I think it is a very important component and one that merits scrutiny. Profit has been the sole and necessary motive for the insurance company no doubt money will be the bottom line here. Rationing unfortuntately is not new that is one of the things that calls for reform . An example is dropping an insured the day after she gets a cancer diagnosis. That is rationing at its worst. These arguments dont' hold water b/c we have choices & we have litigation for fighting corruption & we even have watch dog groups who relish finding abuses. When Uncle Sam takes it over you will take your bitter pill & be quiet. No lawyer can help you.... and no alternative will exist... and the watchdog will be on his chain. Well unless you are a politician & have your won healthcare system... or are so wealthy that you can leave & try to find other alternatives. And will the gov't start rationing care to homesexuals like the will to fat people b/c they are making dangerous choices in their lifestyles? No... Just remember.. .if this beast passes.... the folks you LOVE or trust will not always be in power and those "targeted groups" will change with the trends. I do not want to risk that shifting trend. Elizabeth, with all respect, if MommaDuck & other are biased & so wrong.... and you have the law degree... PLEASE share the greatness of these bills with us & show us where it is written... or contradict where they are completely misunderstanding the intent & wording. Not generalities, but specifics of how they won't ration, won't discriminate, won't encourage euthanasia, won't provide abortions, or won't cover needed medical procedures for unborn... and others that may have been posted. Edited August 13, 2009 by Dirtroad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 That is still $10,000 per year that is supposed to come out of :confused: This is why my kids just got on CHIP...because I certainly don't have it. I would have to go back and read if that were on the public option or that was the private. But, I believe since they are on CHIP, I don't think any of that applies to you. But for people who are paying out of pocket, it's a huge savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 To me, it looks a lot more like people refusing to lie down during these govt. takeovers we've been dealing with within the last year...I mean, really, we're having this stuff shoved down our throats. The bailouts, the stimulus package, now this! Someone else mentioned moveon.org earlier. It's interesting how many people thought that that was okay but people standing up against a govt. takeover right now, well, they're just lunatics. I'm proud of those who are speaking truth!! Actually I am confused that you feel that stuff is being shoved down our throats. We do have a democratic republic with checks and balances. Obviously our government is not perfect, but I think that it works fairly well in many cases. Let me put it this way, I would not want to live elsewhere for the most part;). I also think that our fellow Democrats, Republicans, and Independents are our fellow Americans and in many instances our own family members. I know of many civil servants and politicians who are good people on both sides of the divide. I realize that there is some corruption in politics, but you can find corruption in the private sector as well. I still like to believe that most people are good including those who are in the government. I also think the overwhelming majority of Americans, including Democrats, Republicans, and Independents would never want to see a big brother state or anything like it. You mentioned the stimulus and bailouts. I ask what would you have them do otherwise since I do believe that we were on the verge of another great depression. Obviously, the stimulus and bailouts were not perfect, but I suspect they may have averted a depression IMO. I truly believe that our government acted on the best advice they could get and acted on it to save our country. Just my 2 cents:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.D. Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I have checked out the summary of page 29 provided by the army translator/dittohead. He is simply wrong. If you start back on page 26, where the section in question begins, it is quite clear that portion has NOTHING to do with rationing care. Either the translator is a liar, or a moron**. No one who has read the bill and is reasonably intelligent can reach the conclusion that he did. (**If he did not understand basic insurance terminology, then I still consider him a moron for not taking the time to educate himself better.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) I would have to go back and read if that were on the public option or that was the private. But, I believe since they are on CHIP, I don't think any of that applies to you. But for people who are paying out of pocket, it's a huge savings. Not a big savings for those that don't have money. I did NOT WANT to get my kids on CHIP. I HATED it! It was a tough bird swallow. If we are going to REFORM healthcare, then let's actually REFORM it to where ppl can AFFORD health care on a working man's wage without turning to Big Brother to cover the gap or take over. Edited August 13, 2009 by mommaduck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I have checked out the summary of page 29 provided by the army translator/dittohead. He is simply wrong. If you start back on page 26, where the section in question begins, it is quite clear that portion has NOTHING to do with rationing care. Either the translator is a liar, or a moron**. No one who has read the bill and is reasonably intelligent can reach the conclusion that he did. (**If he did not understand basic insurance terminology, then I still consider him a moron for not taking the time to educate himself better.) You can disagree with him. You can say he is wrong. You can explain why he you think he is wrong, but this post is rude and uncalled for in it's tone and language.:glare: Now, I know how SWB feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynneMcCormick Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 At a town hall today by Senator McCasgill, she asked those in the audience to raise their hands if they have medicare and they did. Then she asked those who had medicare and wanted to give it up to raise their hands. No one raised their hands in favor of giving up Medicare:001_huh:. My dh had health via the military as a military dependent and found the care to be excellent:). Coming in late ...... I hated the military health care! Why? Well, when I was pregnant I couldn't see an OBGYN and I had to go to family practice for prenatal care. In fact, I only knew one family that one the prize to see an OBGYN. The care at the family practice didn't know a lot about pregnancies and couldn't take care of my needs and almost killed my baby and myself. A friend of mine had a baby and the doctor (military FP) sewed her anus up. I have so many stories, it would scare you. Oh, and to get any good care at a military facility you had to complain and fight a TON to get a small amount of quality of care. I'm sorry, but I don't trust the government with my health care. You also stated something about people yelling and being rude ..... This is nothing new because it went on for the past 8 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Okay, let's deal with these... Page 102: Now public assistance isn't an option...it will be forced on you. Well, that is just HIS interpretation, and just because he is an army translator, with the best medical care in the world available to him, doesn't mean he isn't spinning it. Forcing someone to take healthcare? YES. Go, baby, go. It's just like forcing someone to have car insurance. Do you KNOW how much $ it costs us to pay for the uninsured people's emergency room visits? They use the ER like other people use the GP, BECAUSE they have No Heathcare! Do you realize how much $ (if this bill were passed) would be SAVED by stopping people from visiting the ER for what should be simple routine Dr visits? I'll try and find the stats, but I know they are HUGE. They have to require it for the system to work, otherwise it would cost too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Pretty good credentials there :) Okay, let’s start with page 29, since that is pretty big beef. "dittohead's" comment was "your healthcare will be rationed". Yep...That's what it looks like. Do you disagree with "dittohead"? OMG! We've already met/exceeded that for this year! Not only that, but from 2005-2007, we racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in this family. Broken bones, 2 surgeries, and all the Dr's appts and tests that went with those two surgeries! YIKES! AND now we're self insured because DH's employer charges $650 per MONTH for the company health insurance. We couldn't afford that. Page 45 says we wouldn't be able to be self insured. YIKES AGAIN!:001_unsure: Now I'm off to find the bill and read it. Edited August 13, 2009 by coffeefreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.D. Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You can disagree with him. You can say he is wrong. You can explain why he you think he is wrong, but this post is rude and uncalled for in it's tone and language.:glare: Now, I know how SWB feels. I stand by my statement. When the person in question publishes an interpretation that is wrong to that degree, he is either being intellectually dishonest, or is a moron. I find it disturbing that so many are relying on interpretations such as his, and seem o lack the ability to read sections in their entirety to grasp their meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynneMcCormick Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I find that hard to believe since it is not written any where in the bills. Also, Medicare has been around for 40 years and it has not led to euthanasia. This sort of argument is the talking point of private insurance companies and powerful vested interests who want us to be afraid. You need to look at the state of Oregon. A family friend of ours has cancer and received a letter ( a year ago) that they won't cover her cancer medicine, but they will cover the pills for euthanasia. This is not a letter I would want to receive for so many reasons. I also read in a paper the other day that this is still going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Because yours is $5k PER PERSON, and the plan says it will cap off a deductible at $10k PER HOUSEHOLD. Which you would pay for just you and your husband on your current plan. So, with the Obama plan, you would potentially *SAVE* $35,000. I say potentially because I would hope that you all don't get so sick that you rack up 45k (your deductible for your family with your current healthcare). Did it use the word "deductable?" I don't feel like pulling it up yet again. It has messed up my computer too many times already. I read it not as a deductable, but as what you will be able to pay for your health insurance each year. On that page, I remember something being written about copays and not being able to have a second insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I stand by my statement. When the person in question publishes an interpretation that is wrong to that degree, he is either being intellectually dishonest, or is a moron.I find it disturbing that so many are relying on interpretations such as his, and seem o lack the ability to read sections in their entirety to grasp their meaning. The board rules clearly state: 3. Discussions which devolve into abuse will be deleted. Not closed, deleted. Don't email us asking why a thread has been deleted. You can safely assume that the discussion went off track. If you're unsure what qualifies as "abuse," here is a brief and noncomprehensive guide; your post will probably be deleted if it Calls another poster's opinion "dumb," "ignorant," "stupid," "ridiculous," "asinine," or any synonym. Contains the words, "Any idiot can see that..." Contains the phrase "foil hats" Calls another poster "irrational" or begins, "You're clearly not able to follow a logical argument" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Do you KNOW how much $ it costs us to pay for the uninsured people's emergency room visits? They use the ER like other people use the GP, BECAUSE they have No Heathcare! Do you realize how much $ (if this bill were passed) would be SAVED by stopping people from visiting the ER for what should be simple routine Dr visits? I'll try and find the stats, but I know they are HUGE. They have to require it for the system to work, otherwise it would cost too much. My dh works in the local ER. The majority of his patients are illegal immigrants. Would they be forced to have gov't healthcare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 My dh works in the local ER. The majority of his patients are illegal immigrants. Would they be forced to have gov't healthcare? I believe this is why Illegal Immigration is next on the slate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The board rules clearly state: Is the guy who said that stuff a member of the board? If not, the rules don't apply to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Did it use the word "deductable?" I don't feel like pulling it up yet again. It has messed up my computer too many times already. I read it not as a deductable, but as what you will be able to pay for your health insurance each year. On that page, I remember something being written about copays and not being able to have a second insurance policy. looking it up... From Elizabeth's post The summary from the Library of Congress gives a whole other picture. The gentleman referred to earlier is not correct in my estimation. Those numbers are out of pocket limitations. Meaning you will no longer be expected to give up your home in order to save your child. "Scare tactics" does not even come close to describing what I have read. Limits annual out-of-pocket expenses to $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family. "Annual out of pocket" I would consider a deductible. There are no caps, remember. Edited August 13, 2009 by justamouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in Austin Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You need to look at the state of Oregon. A family friend of ours has cancer and received a letter ( a year ago) that they won't cover her cancer medicine, but they will cover the pills for euthanasia. This is not a letter I would want to receive for so many reasons. I also read in a paper the other day that this is still going on. Who was the letter from--a private insurer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.D. Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The board rules clearly state: I quite clearly directed my comments towards the "army translator" from the Natural News column. I stand by those comments. The rules you quoted refer to personal attacks against members of this board, and none of my comments were directed towards board members. If the army translator is a board member, I will apologize and delete my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 $10,000 deductible per family? :001_huh: We pay $5000 max out of pocket for our family, so that would really mess us up. We have one that maxes us out every year and the rest of us usually need at least something on top of that. YIKES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I believe this is why Illegal Immigration is next on the slate. Financially, then, wouldn't this be the cart before the horse? Why doesn't Congress address illegal immigration first? I find it interesting in all the health care talk that no one mentions the insurance the physicians must carry because of frivolous law suits. Which state was losing ob/gyns at an alarming rate because they couldn't afford their insurance? I wonder if any of the attorneys in Congress have a vested interest in law suits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Did it use the word "deductable?" I don't feel like pulling it up yet again. It has messed up my computer too many times already. I read it not as a deductable, but as what you will be able to pay for your health insurance each year. On that page, I remember something being written about copays and not being able to have a second insurance policy. No, it didn't. Those for the bill here are saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.D. Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 $10,000 deductible per family? :001_huh: We pay $5000 max out of pocket for our family, so that would really mess us up. We have one that maxes us out every year and the rest of us usually need at least something on top of that. YIKES! The bill outlines requirements for eligible plans. As your plan is under the maxmimum deductible, it is not affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I am an attorney and well qualified to read the bill as it is written for myself . Thanks. Yes . . . so you keep reminding us:D Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Yes . . . so you keep reminding us:D Lisa Nice . Unfortunately the simple act of reading for oneself seems to require an attorney's education since so many here refuse to read the darn bill as written.FWIW I have absolutely been gracious and given legal advice to the extent I am ethically permitted to anyone here including some who I have vehemently disagreed with. No apologies here, it is a classical educators board is it not??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Yes . . . so you keep reminding us:D Lisa Interesting turn this thread is taking. As for myself, I'm left wondering why, when one man rants and raves and slings ugly epithets at people in his own house he's arrested. Then that same behavior is exhibited in public, directed toward an elected official, congress as a whole and the president, and it's now the stuff of American heroes. Now we're insulting others on a message board, just because we can, and we want to have the last word. Regardless of the topic, I can't help but wonder where civility, manners and intelligent discourse went. astrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The bill outlines requirements for eligible plans. As your plan is under the maxmimum deductible, it is not affected. Yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Well, that is just HIS interpretation, and just because he is an army translator, with the best medical care in the world available to him, doesn't mean he isn't spinning it. Forcing someone to take healthcare? YES. Go, baby, go. It's just like forcing someone to have car insurance. Do you KNOW how much $ it costs us to pay for the uninsured people's emergency room visits? They use the ER like other people use the GP, BECAUSE they have No Heathcare! Do you realize how much $ (if this bill were passed) would be SAVED by stopping people from visiting the ER for what should be simple routine Dr visits? I'll try and find the stats, but I know they are HUGE. They have to require it for the system to work, otherwise it would cost too much. I have been working in the ER as the Insurance chick and yes people use the ER as a doctor's office. But 100% of the ones who didn't have health insurance which was approximately 90% of them, had access to FREE health clinics who were open from 9am to 6pm. And about 70% of these people never went to it because they didn't trust the "government doctors who were underpaid and didn't give a d^*m about them" or "the doctors there are stupid". These are actual quotes and I heard them repeatedly. SO, they would rather come to the largest teaching hospital in the southeast region because: 1. they knew it was free, or in other words they could say they didn't have the money to pay and by law, we had to treat them anyway. 2. they knew the doctors there were good because they worked in the private sector not for the government. 3. It was cleaner than the clinic and the rich people went there so they trusted the care they would receive. Government subsidized healthcare will not lead to better care, or less people in the Emergency Room, it will increase sub-standard care for the poor and the working poor not to mention the middle class. The wealthy will not be affected like the other segments of society. To have government healthcare as an option, and not a replacement, with zero restrictions on free enterprise and no sanctions or punishments for private insurers is a viable option. And one that I think the people who are against it would consider. Cut the pork and special interests to fund it, not new taxes or stupid tax credits, those help the rich not the average joe who needs cash not a credit. And don't try to dictate to the American people what they can and cannot have. It is un-American. :grouphug: for those who feel cornered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Nice . Unfortunately the simple act of reading for oneself seems to require an attorney's education since so many here refuse to read the darn bill as written.FWIW I have absolutely been gracious and given legal advice to the extent I am ethically permitted to anyone here including some who I have vehemently disagreed with. No apologies here, it is a classical educators board is it not??? The government took over a brothel in Nevada and bankrupted it. So what makes you think that the government can take on the medical/health care industry? If they can't run things like education, brothels, medicare/medicaid....then how about we start with something simple like socializing the legal profession before taking on health care reform ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Interesting turn this thread is taking. As for myself, I'm left wondering why, when one man rants and raves and slings ugly epithets at people in his own house he's arrested. Then that same behavior is exhibited in public, directed toward an elected official, congress as a whole and the president, and it's now the stuff of American heroes. Now we're insulting others on a message board, just because we can, and we want to have the last word. Regardless of the topic, I can't help but wonder where civility, manners and intelligent discourse went. astrid Fabulously put. Every time I see a news show like Keith Olberman, Rachel Maddax and that radio host that is always in the news, I can't think of his name but he is conservative, I want to know why they are still on the air they are so vicious and nasty to whatever President they don't like or to anyone who disagrees with them. I love hearing concise, intelligent discourse, disputing each others opinions but leave the nasty remarks for the tabloids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I searched the document for the words "until birth" and didn't find them. Did I miss something? You didn't find it because it's not there. I read the entire thing. There are also no "death panels" or any of the things the uber right is attempting to terrorize us with. To all of those who go to town meetings ready to participate in a mob, I have one thing to say. Put your brain in gear and read the document yourself. Neither Fix News nor Rush Limberger are the place to get your information. 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennC Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The White House government web site is non-partisan web site. . :lol::lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 If a public option becomes available, I will be happy to pay for such an option, because the private health insurance that I have stinks. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Interesting turn this thread is taking. As for myself, I'm left wondering why, when one man rants and raves and slings ugly epithets at people in his own house he's arrested. Then that same behavior is exhibited in public, directed toward an elected official, congress as a whole and the president, and it's now the stuff of American heroes. Now we're insulting others on a message board, just because we can, and we want to have the last word. Regardless of the topic, I can't help but wonder where civility, manners and intelligent discourse went. astrid Please, astrid. We all assert ourselves when it comes to heated topics and, as intelligent parents, we have opinions. I have read many of yours. I was merely pointing out that, as an attorney, Elizabeth can obviously weed her way through this bill. However, us mere mortals also can have opinions in OUR interpretation of the bill as well. Time to get off the high horse, now, Astrid. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You didn't find it because it's not there. I read the entire thing. There are also no "death panels" or any of the things the uber right is attempting to terrorize us with. To all of those who go to town meetings ready to participate in a mob, I have one thing to say. Put your brain in gear and read the document yourself. Neither Fix News nor Rush Limberger are the place to get your information. 'Nuff said. Nice insults. No kool-aid drinking, here, either? Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennC Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 have believed the mis-information put out there by conservative talk radio entertainers, private health insurance companies, and other powerful vested interests;). Wondering if you can tell me what information - that can be gained from reading the bill - is considered mis-information but the WH? Or do we just use this phrase because we heard someone else say it? Why does the WH believe that someone who disagrees must be getting their information from an entertainer? I think the fact that as many as 71% of Americans This very quote above is MIS-information at it's best. Why not just say as many as 100% may feel . . . A fact is one thing, not a range like this. . Sorry I'm as much as 40 miles behind you'all who've been keeping up with this.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraceinMD Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 :001_huh:I think it is the fault of Medicare not paying for treatment doctor prescribe, not paying doctors enough, not paying in a timely manner, and sometimes just not paying at all.:tongue_smilie: As a doctor, I can not disagree with anything you say - especially the bolded part. Regulations mandate things like how often I must see my long-term care patients (whether they need it or not) and how often I have to try to taper and/or discontinue certain types of meds. Meanwhile, insurance companies mandate what meds people can get --- and it's not like they pick a drug and stick with it --- no, they change it, seemingly at random, every few months. (For example, Mrs. S was on Drug Z 20 mg once a day. I get a notice saying that it has to be changed to Drug Z 10 mg twice a day. So I switch it, so that her ins. will pay for it. Three months later, I get a notice that they won't pay for Drug Z at all now - they will, though pay for Drug Y 40 mg once a day. So I switch her. About 6 months later ... Drug Z is in the catbird seat once again, at 20 mg once a day. Each switch requires 1) a phone call, 2) a new Rx, 3) a new note in the chart, 4) a nurse to cancel the old order, 5) a nurse to start the new order, 6) a second nurse to check and verify the order (this is in an assisted living facility), 7) the pharmacy where the med is delivered from to make another delivery and to pick up the old med, and 8) possible blood work to monitor every switch to the new med. This happens on at LEAST 3% of my patients every couple of months. It's a huge SCAM in my opinion, perpetrated by the insurance companies who are constantly making deals with the pharmaceutical companies. It has NOTHING to do with improved patient care AT ALL. These med change requests are SOLELY on the basis of economic advantage for the ins. company.) Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Medicare has not paid me (for all those mandated visits) for how long? 54 weeks. Yes, weeks. I still take Medicare patients, and I still treat them to the best of my ability, because I consider it a privilege to work with elderly patients. But if we think that gov't-run ANYthing is going to be more efficient, more concerned with patient-care and outcomes, and more compassionate to the needy and vulnerable among us ... think again. We need reform, but we need insurance reform, Big Pharma reform, and tort reform. We do not, imo, need the gov't trying to manage the relationship between doctor and patient. (Whew. Didn't realize there was such a rant in there :)!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) My husband, who is Canadian, has been watching this debate for months. He is particularly amused by the fear gripping this nation that we will end up with socialized medicine like in Canada. We should be so lucky. Let me share with you my experience with Canadian health care. First, I'm an American citizen. I don't have a Canada Health card so I'm not covered. A few years ago, I flew to Halifax with a severe head cold. By the time I landed one of my ears was about to burst. My husband called the doctor his family uses and told them I had an earache. The nurse said, "Well, if she's in pain, she must come right in." I did. When I got there and identified myself, the nurse never asked me to sit in the waiting area. I was shown into an exam room because I was in pain. The doctor saw me promptly, gave me excellent care and spent time with me. He gave me a script for a very expensive antibiotic -- a Z-Pack. When I was ready to leave, I went to the desk and asked for my bill. The nurse asked me for my Canada Health card. (Notice that nobody asked me for money or health insurance until *after* I had been seen by the doctor -- try that here.) I told her I didn't have one and the woman was completely dumbfounded. She didn't know what to do. She did not have a mechanism for taking money! Finally, she spoke with the office manager who knew what to do with uninsured aliens and she came back all apologetic and said, "The government won't reimburse us, we have to charge you." She charge me $10 Canadian and couldn't stop apologizing. I went to the pharmacy with my script. The same thing -- the pharmacist told me he was so, so sorry, he had to charge me. And he did. $20 for a Z-pack that costs over $100 here. My elderly mother-in-law broke her hip. She had a new one the next day. Sure, when she had cataract surgery she had to wait a couple of months because people with cancer were being seen first. I'm perfectly ok with that. Last year she had a very long hospitalization. She was in an excellent hospital for six months. They basically brought her back from the dead. The bill for the entire stay was $112. It was for the rental of a TV set that was in her room the whole time. I hope to God we get half of what Canadians have. And more than that, I hope people who are terrified of health care reform will reach out to those who have lived with it in other countries and get feedback from them, not just Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and whoever else big Pharma sends out to defeat it. I want every American to have universal health care, cradle to grave. We are the greatest nation in the world. This is the least we can do for each other. Edited August 13, 2009 by tdeveson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I hope to God we get half of what Canadians have. And more than that, I hope people who screech and rant about the horrors of Canadian health care educate themselves. I am proud to be an American. I love my country. But know that Canadians are watching all this and laughing at us. What does gas cost in Canada right now? Their health care is not free. They pay for it. As will we if aren't careful with which type of reform we accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 It is un-American. The argument of last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennC Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I will happily pay more in taxes instead of onerous health insurance premiums I wonder how people who feel this way will react when we all pay higher taxes AND a health insurance premium? AND the gov decides for us what is best for us and our families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 What does gas cost in Canada right now?It's usually more than here. I'm not sure what the connection is. I don't think socialized medicine made their gas go up.:001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 It's usually more than here. I'm not sure what the connection is. I don't think socialized medicine made their gas go up.:001_huh: Where do they get the taxes needed to fund their health care? It's not free. The citizens are paying for it through taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The White House government web site is non-partisan web site. Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 What does gas cost in Canada right now? Their health care is not free. They pay for it. As will we if aren't careful with which type of reform we accept. The cost of gas in Canada has as much to do with its healthcare as a monkey's fart has to do with the price of tea in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennC Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 That is not the fault of Medicare. IMHO, I posit that is the fault of the medical profession. I wish there was an "OMG What! Does she really BELIEVE that" guy:001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The cost of gas in Canada has as much to do with its healthcare as a monkey's fart has to do with the price of tea in China. How eloquent. Where does the tax money come from? What is the tax rate for the average Canadian? These things are important. We have a deficit in the trillions. Our economy is in the tank. My family cannot afford a tax hike right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The cost of gas in Canada has as much to do with its healthcare as a monkey's fart has to do with the price of tea in China. :lol: As a pp stated, your health care costs are paid by Canadians. If it's not taxes, where does your gov't get the money? Why else would gasoline cost so much there if it weren't for federal taxes? What is the cost of gas there now, anyway? I just paid $2.31/gal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 How eloquent. Where does the tax money come from? What is the tax rate for the average Canadian? These things are important. We have a deficit in the trillions. Our economy is in the tank. My family cannot afford a tax hike right now. Not to worry here then... as I've posted so many times before... What my dh and I together paid in taxes for the whole last year, was significantly LESS than what I ALONE paid for health insurance premiums over 12 years ago. That "Ooo! Big taxes!" scare won't wash here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Not to worry here then... as I've posted so many times before... What my dh and I together paid in taxes for the whole last year, was significantly LESS than what I ALONE paid for health insurance premiums over 12 years ago. That "Ooo! Big taxes!" scare won't wash here. My family does not pay much for health care. I'm pretty happy with what I have. I do worry about taxes. Why are you acting belligerent to my honest question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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