Sentor Spector's Town Hall

[elizabeth]

but I feel he says it the best...

 

"Community organizers cannot b*tch when communities organize."

 

K

Please stop referring to this as community organizing. Peruse this website that has a packet of information or screaming points for those going to the town hall meetings. It is a PAC run by Dick ARmey. Community ? Hardly.

http://www.freedomworks.org/about/about-freedomworks It is fine to speak yourmind even to raise a voice but to align the general vague screamers with the well educated , erudite founders of our country is apples to oranges. All voices are not of the same intelligence, information or ability to persuade. These people are shouting into a mirror only reaching those who agree with them already. They are convincing no one.

Edited August 12, 2009 by elizabeth
forgot link

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:iagree: This is definitely a question that has not been properly answered and DESERVES a good, thorough, fully detailed list of evidence to prove where he was born. Since it is one of the important qualifications for actually BECOMING a president, I don't feel we've been adequately informed on this matter, nor do I think we ever will be.

 

 

I would ask anyone who believes that President Obama is not a citizen to ask themselves the following:

 

1. Do you believe President Obama's mother conspired 48 years ago to fake President Obama's birth place?

 

2. Do you believe that she foresaw his presidency 48 years later?

 

3. Do you believe that the Hawaian (please excuse my spelling)newspapers and state government participated in this conspiracy as well?

[theresatwist]

Good answer...we'll list that one under "lack of evidence".

 

No, I'm not the one getting my news from the tabloids. I'll place my faith in the state of Hawaii.

[Plucky]

I haven't read all the replies yet, but I will tell you what 'got my goat' about this whole debacle so far. The female senator (I am not sure of her state) who threatened to pull out her "mom voice"?? because people were disagreeing with her. Is it rude to yell and jeer? Yes! However, for one adult to tell another adult that they are going to pull out their mom voice - are you kidding me? How is that not just as disrespectful? LISTEN to your constituents! To me, it is like when we see frustration in our children and they act out to get our attention. Do we then ignore them, or listen to them and see what we can change in order to help? And these are our ELECTED officials - put into power by us, for us! Who exactly do they think they are?

 

I have moved from discourse to rant, so I will just move along now...;)

 

This is the way government workers and politicians are trained to treat citizens that disagree with them. I was at a community meeting trying to stop an illegal mine from opening. The county wanted it open & a judge had ruled in our favor.

 

Our local rep. - a republican, insulted us, threw a tantrum (I'd already had plenty of pathetic dealings with the majority of our democrat leaders). The department of transportation lied and played down our concerns to our face. They required that only a handful of us have meetings in the future or there would be none at all. Their goal was to silence us and isolate us.

 

In the end, another judge allowed the mine to open. I think all politicians are crooked and I am highly suspicious of all government. My experience has been that they lie to get there way consistently.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Liberals have behaved in ways I do not approve of. But, I do think that meeting with a senator (when he is standing next to you and you've got a microphone in your hand) is different from a protest where people are simply marching down the street trying to attract attention. I'm also shocked the the ages of some of the folks who were treating Specter with such disrespect. Teenagers are known for behaving like idiots sometimes, but adults should know better.

You need to treat people with respect to receive it in return. When you are mid-sentence and they pull the microphone away, how else will you be heard? The town hall meeting I saw was very respectful.

 

The Democrats are trying to pass this legislation now because they know that politically it will be impossible to do so later. This is simply a reality of our political system. Plenty of legislation was rushed through during the Bush administration too (the war in Iraq, for one).

They were trying to pass it before the summer recess, because they didn't want they American people to be able to read the bill before it was made into law. They knew that if the American people knew what was in the bill, they would loose the political advantage. They knew that there would be a large block of the American population that would be against parts of this bill and/or all of it. They would loose the blue dog vote.

 

Thankfully the American people are quick readers.;)

 

I think the town hall meetings are a pretty wonderful opportunity for folks to get their voices heard. When liberals were protesting the war, you were denied entrance to Bush's speeches unless you could prove you were a Republican.

 

Just as President Obama did yesterday as well as President Clinton.

[mommaduck]

I would ask anyone who believes that President Obama is not a citizen to ask themselves the following:

 

1. Do you believe President Obama's mother conspired 48 years ago to fake President Obama's birth place?

 

2. Do you believe that she foresaw his presidency 48 years later?

 

3. Do you believe that the Hawaian (please excuse my spelling)newspapers and state government participated in this conspiracy as well?

 

No, I believe that the original long form states his original birth place...whether Kenya or Hawaii. I don't believe she foresaw his presidency and neither is that an issue. However, she was never able to address the issue as she died right about the time that it became an issue.

 

The media is a sell out...to whichever side owns that particular part of the media. I don't believe there is such a thing as "unbiased media". It's always leans one way or another. You can do a search and find where many stories have been twisted, squashed, or out right lied to the public via the media and government (and yes, I mean any side...including FoxNews). Heck, I remember when my stepdad used to pay for our car sticker with a case of beer...in the Pacific :)

[Gretchen in NJ]

:iagree: The hubbub in that meeting was people speaking from freedom. They are standing for their rights now, in freedom, before our govt. becomes so big that we all live in fear of speaking our voices.

Teresa, nicely stated: short, sweet, and to the point. I am going to use it for copywork one day.:001_smile:

[Plucky]

Please stop referring to this as community organizing. Peruse this website that has a packet of information or screaming points for those going to the town hall meetings. It is a PAC run by Dick ARmey. Community ? Hardly.

http://www.freedomworks.org/about/about-freedomworks It is fine to speak yourmind even to raise a voice but to align the general vague screamers with the well educated , erudite founders of our country is apples to oranges. All voices are not of the same intelligence, information or ability to persuade. These people are shouting into a mirror only reaching those who agree with them already. They are convincing no one.

 

No, it isn't. This is rumor engineered to discredit and silence the opposition. Is everyone here that disagrees part of the conspiracy? Just because the liberals through ACORN had fake community organizations doesn't mean this is the same.

 

If anything Obama's "town meeting" the other night makes people chuckle at the obvious choreography the left is willing to enact. A little honesty goes a long way.

[Beth in SW WA]

Timely article:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=5517492&page=1

[Gretchen in NJ]

I'm curious though, doesn't it scare you a bit that whenever our government has tried organizing & controlling important programs, they have failed dismally? The USPS is basically going bankrupt. Look at Fanny Mae, Social Security, VA benefits, etc. What on earth would lead you to believe that the government would be better at managing health care than they are at those other programs? On top of that, we just don't have the money! How does it compute in your mind that we (as a nation) can spend that much more money that we don't have?

 

While UPS and Fedex are doing fine. It does amaze me that someone who doesn't trust the government to educate their children would trust the government with their health.:001_huh:

[pqr]

Please stop referring to this as community organizing. Peruse this website that has a packet of information or screaming points for those going to the town hall meetings. It is a PAC run by Dick ARmey. Community ? Hardly.

 

 

Oh come on now. A little honesty here. Lets be fair people are angry, very angry, and all the excuses and lies about Nazis and others will not change that fact. Support for the program is falling and the more people actually read it the less thay like it.

 

If are going to talk about PACs etc let me see you publicly condemn MoveOn dot Org and the other groups of their ilk. Were you insulted by their behavior? How about the anti-war crowd and their outrageous behavior? Will you admit that they were also PACs.

 

Even if your accusations were true, which they are not, one could argue that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Do groups put out information about this? Yes. Do they offer questions? Yes. Is this community organizing? Yes

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

No, I believe that the original long form states his original birth place...whether Kenya or Hawaii. I don't believe she foresaw his presidency and neither is that an issue. However, she was never able to address the issue as she died right about the time that it became an issue.

 

 

 

I would also ask does anyone else have this long form that I have never heard of prior to this? I have never been asked to provide such a long form even when I got my passport:).

 

His grandmother and not his mother was the one who died at that time. His mother died, I believe, in 1995.

 

I would also posit that if there was any truth to this rumor of his citizenship then I think that the Republican party and Senator McCain would have exposed it during the campaign prior to the election.

[elizabeth]

No, it isn't. This is rumor engineered to discredit and silence the opposition. Is everyone here that disagrees part of the conspiracy? Just because the liberals through ACORN had fake community organizations doesn't mean this is the same.

 

If anything Obama's "town meeting" the other night makes people chuckle at the obvious choreography the left is willing to enact. A little honesty goes a long way.

I included a link to the PAC that is a leader of this effort to disrupt town meetings . All the information is right there. There is a place to click for a packet of what to say at a town meeting please read it. I do not see how this can be denied. No of course not everyone here who agrees is part of a conspiracy but I do think that the Potemkin village that is being presented on tv needs to have the mirage of community organizing as being behind it torn away.

[Gretchen in NJ]

With Medicare the government has hired a private company to do the work for them. Under Medicare that private company's administrative expenses are around 15%. The average amount a private insurance company spends on administrative costs? 30-40%. I believe that's the government getting it right. I do not believe our life expectancy in this country would be so high without Medicare.

 

Try to find a good doctor when you are on Medicare. I mean a good doctor: not just a doctor.;) It is hard around here.

[Plucky]

I included a link to the PAC that is a leader of this effort to disrupt town meetings . All the information is right there. There is a place to click for a packet of what to say at a town meeting please read it. I do not see how this can be denied. No of course not everyone here who agrees is part of a conspiracy but I do think that the Potemkin village that is being presented on tv needs to have the mirage of community organizing as being behind it torn away.

 

So what? If my politicians weren't such dumb asses (Baird) and making the story about himself, I might go and I might read off something preprepared that I AGREE with. Really, elizabeth, you are reaching.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Try to find a good doctor when you are on Medicare. I mean a good doctor: not just a doctor.;) It is hard around here.

 

That is not the fault of Medicare. IMHO, I posit that is the fault of the medical profession.

[Gretchen in NJ]

With Medicare the government has hired a private company to do the work for them. Under Medicare that private company's administrative expenses are around 15%. The average amount a private insurance company spends on administrative costs? 30-40%. I believe that's the government getting it right. I do not believe our life expectancy in this country would be so high without Medicare.

So' date=' there is not one government employee involved in the administration of Medicare? I see that you put the "private company's administrative expenses are around 15%."

 

If there is a government agency or employee charged with overseeing Medicare, how are the expenses associated with the employment of government employees accounted for?

 

Could this explain the difference in administrative costs? I used to work for a government agency and I find it hard to believe we did the job more efficiently than our private counterparts.[/quote']

 

Great point, there would be somone in the government over looking the private company. That would too count as over head. Also(asking theresatwist,) where did you come up with those figures?

[elizabeth]

Oh come on now. A little honesty here. Lets be fair people are angry, very angry, and all the excuses and lies about Nazis and others will not change that fact. Support for the program is falling and the more people actually read it the less thay like it.

 

If are going to talk about PACs etc let me see you publicly condemn MoveOn dot Org and the other groups of their ilk. Were you insulted by their behavior? How about the anti-war crowd and their outrageous behavior? Will you admit that they were also PACs.

 

Even if your accusations were true, which they are not, one could argue that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Do groups put out information about this? Yes. Do they offer questions? Yes. Is this community organizing? Yes

So the link is false?Made up by those who support the President's agenda??That is a little wild even for this board. I not only disagreed with some of what Move on tried to pass off as community but as a precinct captain , called the police to remove them from within 400 feet of the polling place I was responsible for. Let me tell you something about me ,as a lawyer I take my obligations and oaths very seriously and meticulously research before I ever type a post. Knee jerk liberal is not a definition that comes close to approximating my beliefs or behaviours.My integrity is fine on this. I absolutely am able to call it what it is. It is not crucial that a PAC is involved but the distortion that it is a groundswell by the people is a fiction only believed by those who did not support this man for President to begin with.

[pqr]

Great point, there would be somone in the government over looking the private company. That would too count as over head. Also(asking theresatwist,) where did you come up with those figures?

 

 

Perhaps the same place that Priscilla came up with her 71% support for the plan or the "fact" that the White House site is non partisan, both of which are complately untrue.

[pqr]

It is not crucial that a PAC is involved but the distortion that it is a groundswell by the people is a fiction only believed by those who did not support this man for President to begin with.

 

 

Then explain the poll numbers.

[A.D.]

No, I believe that the original long form states his original birth place...whether Kenya or Hawaii. I don't believe she foresaw his presidency and neither is that an issue. However, she was never able to address the issue as she died right about the time that it became an issue.

 

His mother died in 1995. It was his maternal grandmother who died in 2008. I have no idea why you think a statement from either of those women would have answered any of the "questions" of the birthers.

[Gretchen in NJ]

15 years ago I went to a Financial Planner. Even then' date=' we knew (and he agreed), that Social Security should NEVER be a part of ones retirement planning for people in my age group (then mid-20s). My own mother will qualify for full social security in a couple of years and even she is worried that she will outlive the system as her 401K has been left in shambles.

 

Even after 35 years of working for a decent salary, my mother's full social security payment (at age 66) will not make for a great retirement, especially when you consider the inflation that we will be facing as more money is borrowed to pay for this expansion of government.[/quote']

 

My grandmother was on SS in the 80's and she would receive free government cheese.:001_huh: It doesn't sound like it is working to me.

[FO4UR]

Timely article:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=5517492&page=1

 

:glare::sad:

 

That is not the fault of Medicare. IMHO, I posit that is the fault of the medical profession.

 

I guess the article linked above is just another example of "not the gov't fault."

[Gretchen in NJ]

That myth and un-truth of no birth certificate has been thoroughly debunked.

I suggest googling factcheck.org for the facts.

 

You keep asking us to go to this site. After reading your posts, I would think that this would have an agenda.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Gretchen in NJ

[Gretchen in NJ]

Nice try. But utterly ridiculous.

 

astrid

:confused: What is?

[CLHCO]

That is not the fault of Medicare. IMHO, I posit that is the fault of the medical profession.

 

Yeah, we really need to reign in those doctors. The government system is a paperwork nightmare, hassle, and costly, but gosh, they should just be forced to deal with it out of the goodness of their hearts or not practice medicine.

[PineFarmMom]

Good answer...we'll list that one under "lack of evidence".

 

:lol::lol:

[Jenny in Atl]

Try to find a good doctor when you are on Medicare. I mean a good doctor: not just a doctor.;) It is hard around here.

 

My dad has had no issues with Medicare at all. But then Atlanta is a major medical hub.

[Gretchen in NJ]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/11/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5235445.shtml

 

Then I heard him interviewed on CNN, I think it was (feeding dogs and folding laundry so not really sure where my channel-surfing stopped.)

 

astrid

 

He was not at the town meeting. He was outside. What a spin.

[Plucky]

It wasn't? Certainly sounded like it. Birthers is still a slur. As offensive as if you called me an injun or my sil a flip. How about "concerned citizens wanting to make certain the Constitution is being followed"? Surely something as PC as that should natural to the liberal media.

 

So a birther is someone who believes he isn't a citizen...what about those that simply believe it's a legitimate question?

 

 

 

Yes, birthers is a slur. I am not one, but when I read that term I automatically assume someone has been listening to too much msnbc & the like. Ick.

[Gretchen in NJ]

It would be an acceptable government website to use per the rules of this board and in that sense would be non-partisan. Frankly, I am only trying to honor the rules of this board. I would be willing to listen with an open mind to such a website since I do not believe that every Republican is a liar who is out to deceive me just as I do not believe that every Democrat is out to do the same. For heavens sake, there are many Republicans, Libertarians and democrats in my family and I love them all:).

 

One of the myths that the White House website debunks is the "euthanasia" myth. Honestly, I think that the belief that health care reform will lead to death panels and euthanasia is clearly not true and there are many Republicans who agree with that as well.

 

Not true. Under this bill, there would be passive euthanasia.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Not true. Under this bill, there would be passive euthanasia.

 

 

I find that hard to believe since it is not written any where in the bills. Also, Medicare has been around for 40 years and it has not led to euthanasia. This sort of argument is the talking point of private insurance companies and powerful vested interests who want us to be afraid.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Yeah, we really need to reign in those doctors. The government system is a paperwork nightmare, hassle, and costly, but gosh, they should just be forced to deal with it out of the goodness of their hearts or not practice medicine.

 

 

I agree that should be less paperwork and that is one of the reforms President Obama hopes to have done. However, as a nurse, I cannot refuse to care for a Medicare patient even though it involves more paperwork. I also went into nursing so that I could help others and I would hope that doctors would do the same as many of them already do:)

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I haven't heard anything about that. I have just re-check all of the major news websites: Fox, CNN, MSNBC, Drudge, ABC, and CBS. There is no mention of this on any of those sites. They are all talking about Senator Specter's town hall meeting.

 

If this happen, he would be free to do interviews.

 

I believe you can openly carry a firearm in NH. This guy was just exercising his rights (while he has them) to carry. NH has a very libertarian bent and I think he was just making a statement about his state.

 

K

[Gretchen in NJ]

I would also ask does anyone else have this long form that I have never heard of prior to this? I have never been asked to provide such a long form even when I got my passport:).

 

His grandmother and not his mother was the one who died at that time. His mother died, I believe, in 1995.

 

I would also posit that if there was any truth to this rumor of his citizenship then I think that the Republican party and Senator McCain would have exposed it during the campaign prior to the election.

 

Hawaii has two types of birth certificates. The long form which is the one the doctor would have filled out is kept in a vault. The long form would have the name of the doctor who delievered him and the name of the hospital. President Obama has refused to let it be released.

[Mary in VA]

There will be rationing of health care due to financial cuts, leading to the senior citizens not getting the care they get now under Medicare. Value judgments will be made based on age and health of the patient. Leading to PASSIVE euthanasia.

 

Mary

[Gretchen in NJ]

That is not the fault of Medicare. IMHO, I posit that is the fault of the medical profession.

 

:001_huh:I think it is the fault of Medicare not paying for treatment doctor prescribe, not paying doctors enough, not paying in a timely manner, and sometimes just not paying at all.:tongue_smilie:

[Gretchen in NJ]

So the link is false?Made up by those who support the President's agenda??That is a little wild even for this board. I not only disagreed with some of what Move on tried to pass off as community but as a precinct captain , called the police to remove them from within 400 feet of the polling place I was responsible for. Let me tell you something about me ,as a lawyer I take my obligations and oaths very seriously and meticulously research before I ever type a post. Knee jerk liberal is not a definition that comes close to approximating my beliefs or behaviours.My integrity is fine on this. I absolutely am able to call it what it is. It is not crucial that a PAC is involved but the distortion that it is a groundswell by the people is a fiction only believed by those who did not support this man for President to begin with.

 

You are assuming that everyone at these town hall meetings have seen this website or one like it. You do know what happens when one assumes don't you?;)

[FO4UR]

I agree that should be less paperwork and that is one of the reforms President Obama hopes to have done. However, as a nurse, I cannot refuse to care for a Medicare patient even though it involves more paperwork. I also went into nursing so that I could help others and I would hope that doctors would do the same as many of them already do:)

 

You are a diamond in the ruff as far as medical staff go. This has not been my experience with medicaid. A simple u/s would have found a major complication when I was preggo with my #1...denied! Why? MC!!!

[Gretchen in NJ]

Perhaps the same place that Priscilla came up with her 71% support for the plan or the "fact" that the White House site is non partisan, both of which are complately untrue.

 

:lol::lol::lol:Thank you pqr.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Here is an example of euthanasia.

Timely article:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=5517492&page=1

 

I find that hard to believe since it is not written any where in the bills. Also, Medicare has been around for 40 years and it has not led to euthanasia. This sort of argument is the talking point of private insurance companies and powerful vested interests who want us to be afraid.

 

I didn't say it would lead to euthanasia. I said it would lead to passive euthanasia just as it has done in Canada and England. Euthanasia and passive euthanasia are different. Passive euthanasia happens when one needs to cut costs.

[PineFarmMom]

Hawaii has two types of birth certificates. The long form which is the one the doctor would have filled out is kept in a vault. The long form would have the name of the doctor who delievered him and the name of the hospital. President Obama has refused to let it be released.

 

THAT is the part that floors me. He's not applying for a job at McDonald's people. He is our president, whom was elected by many Americans (not me). I think we have a right to have everything divulged, particularly when it directly involves part of the qualifications for presidency. I've read about the long form and the short form and the varying reasons for why he won't hand out the info needed...and no, it wasn't from the Enquirer.:rolleyes: I only read the Enquirer to get the other pertinent information for my life like may daily horoscope and to find out who is having the latest alien child...certainly not for political proof. ;)

[elizabeth]

Not true. Under this bill, there would be passive euthanasia.

Sorry that is not in the bill you are incorrect. Please read the section if you wish to know what it says. This is a distortion and reveals plenty about your sourcing of information

 

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.

 

(a) Medicare-

 

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 1861 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended--

 

(A) in subsection (s)(2)--

 

(i) by striking `and' at the end of subparagraph (DD);

 

(ii) by adding `and' at the end of subparagraph (EE); and

 

(iii) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:

 

`(FF) advance care planning consultation (as defined in subsection (hhh)(1));'; and

 

(B) by adding at the end the following new subsection:

 

`Advance Care Planning Consultation

 

`(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term `advance care planning consultation' means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

 

`(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.

 

`(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

 

`© An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.

 

`(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).

 

`(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

 

`(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include--

 

`(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual's family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;

 

`(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and

 

`(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decisionmaker (also known as a health care proxy).

 

`(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement for explanations under clause (i) to consultations furnished in a State--

 

`(I) in which all legal barriers have been addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining treatment to constitute a set of medical orders respected across all care settings; and

 

`(II) that has in effect a program for orders for life sustaining treatment described in clause (iii).

 

`(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining treatment for a States described in this clause is a program that--

 

`(I) ensures such orders are standardized and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;

 

`(II) distributes or makes accessible such orders to physicians and other health professionals that (acting within the scope of the professional's authority under State law) may sign orders for life sustaining treatment;

 

`(III) provides training for health care professionals across the continuum of care about the goals and use of orders for life sustaining treatment; and

 

`(IV) is guided by a coalition of stakeholders includes representatives from emergency medical services, emergency department physicians or nurses, state long-term care association, state medical association, state surveyors, agency responsible for senior services, state department of health, state hospital association, home health association, state bar association, and state hospice association.

 

`(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is--

 

`(A) a physician (as defined in subsection ®(1)); and

 

`(B) a nurse practitioner or physician's assistant who has the authority under State law to sign orders for life sustaining treatments.

 

`(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination under subsection (WW), including any related discussion during such examination, shall not be considered an advance care planning consultation for purposes of applying the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).

 

`(B) An advance care planning consultation with respect to an individual may be conducted more frequently than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual, including diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or a hospice program.

 

`(4) A consultation under this subsection may include the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order.

 

`(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term `order regarding life sustaining treatment' means, with respect to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to the treatment of that individual that--

 

`(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as defined in subsection ®(1)) or another health care professional (as specified by the Secretary and who is acting within the scope of the professional's authority under State law in signing such an order, including a nurse practitioner or physician assistant) and is in a form that permits it to stay with the individual and be followed by health care professionals and providers across the continuum of care;

 

`(ii) effectively communicates the individual's preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, including an indication of the treatment and care desired by the individual;

 

`(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized within a given locality, region, or State (as identified by the Secretary); and

 

`(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the individual.

 

`(B) The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all or specified interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may include indications respecting, among other items--

 

`(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac or pulmonary problems;

 

`(ii) the individual's desire regarding transfer to a hospital or remaining at the current care setting;

 

`(iii) the use of antibiotics; and

 

`(iv) the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration.'.

 

(2) PAYMENT- Section 1848(j)(3) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(j)(3)) is amended by inserting `(2)(FF),' after `(2)(EE),'.

 

(3) FREQUENCY LIMITATION- Section 1862(a) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395y(a)) is amended--

 

(A) in paragraph (1)--

 

(i) in subparagraph (N), by striking `and' at the end;

 

(ii) in subparagraph (O) by striking the semicolon at the end and inserting `, and'; and

 

(iii) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:

 

`(P) in the case of advance care planning consultations (as defined in section 1861(hhh)(1)), which are performed more frequently than is covered under such section;'; and

 

(B) in paragraph (7), by striking `or (K)' and inserting `(K), or (P)'.

 

(4) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendments made by this subsection shall apply to consultations furnished on or after January 1, 2011.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THOMAS Home | Contact | Accessibility | Legal | USA.gov

[Jenny in Atl]

Here is an example of euthanasia.

 

 

 

 

I didn't say it would lead to euthanasia. I said it would lead to passive euthanasia just as it has done in Canada and England. Euthanasia and passive euthanasia are different. Passive euthanasia happens when one needs to cut costs.

 

How is this any different than the thousands who are denied coverage by their insurances companies once they get sick? We are barely hanging on to ours due to youngest dd's type-1. If we loose her coverage, she will never again be able to buy private insurance.

[Gretchen in NJ]

How is this any different than the thousands who are denied coverage by their insurances companies once they get sick? We are barely hanging on to ours due to youngest dd's type-1. If we loose her coverage, she will never again be able to buy private insurance.

 

Hello Jenny! It so nice to see you. Would you please be so very kind as to support 'thousands'? I have tried to ask that from everyone who has stated numerical facts to show where they came up with their numbers. Yes, I am sorry about your daughter.:grouphug: My father has had Parkinson's disease for 12 years now and 13 years ago he had prostate cancer. He has been able to obtain insurance here in New Jersey. He just switched last year.

[mommaduck]

No, I'm not the one getting my news from the tabloids. I'll place my faith in the state of Hawaii.

 

I don't read tabloids either. Never have, but thanks for the presumption upon my reading habits.

 

I would also like to place my faith in the state of Hawaii. Show us the long form :)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Hello Jenny! It so nice to see you. Would you please be so very kind as to support 'thousands'?

 

If anyone is interested in hearing from a former high level insurance executives on the actions of private health insurance companies, then I would consider googling pbs.org and watch Bill Moyer's Show on Wendall Potter. It is quite an eye opener.

 

I know that I have personally have to deal with 5 denials of payment so far from private health insurance companies:).

[mommaduck]

His mother died in 1995. It was his maternal grandmother who died in 2008. I have no idea why you think a statement from either of those women would have answered any of the "questions" of the birthers.

 

Ah, my mistake. Either way, either woman would have been able to give a statement as to where he was born. Just as one of his Kenyan relatives gave a statement that she was present at his birth in Kenya.

[Melissa in FL]

Please stop referring to this as community organizing. Peruse this website that has a packet of information or screaming points for those going to the town hall meetings. It is a PAC run by Dick ARmey. Community ? Hardly.

http://www.freedomworks.org/about/about-freedomworks It is fine to speak yourmind even to raise a voice but to align the general vague screamers with the well educated , erudite founders of our country is apples to oranges. All voices are not of the same intelligence, information or ability to persuade. These people are shouting into a mirror only reaching those who agree with them already. They are convincing no one.

 

I really feel a lot of people have been miss led by this propaganda. Now I can only talk about what I know and have seen here in my city.

 

Congresswoman Kathy Castor was at a town hall organized by union members. It is the only place she will be seen this recess, she will NOT take meetings with those that disagree with her. At that town hall the police figure there were 1500 people there. Almost all of them anti-government in our health care. You can say/think whatever you want. What I know is this was a very local movement.

 

The people came from really two locally led groups. Our 9-12 group. Which was founded by a SAHM with two kids. I'm pretty involved in this group, and even though there is a national website and groups all over the country, I can let you know that my group it totally locally controlled, the ideas on what we do are only from local members. I know a lot of people in the group and most of them have never been involved in this kind of thing before. It truly is a locally run group, mainly concerned with local issues. We have Republicans, Independants, and a growing number of Democrats in this group. Most of these people began paying more attention to DC during the Bush administration when they didn't like what he was doing (patriot act, tarp, giving money to auto companies when congress had said no). As our government spending has only gotten more out of control we have organized. Almost all of these people really look at Congress as the culprits, not Obama alone.

 

The other group that sent e-mails around to get people to the townhall was the local tea party group. I'm on their e-mail loop, but really, they are so disorganized that anyone who spends ten minutes looking into them will know there is no way in h--- that they have national help. Do I think a lot of people from this e-mail loop showed up? Yes, but they really are people just like me who are ticked off that our reps don't seem to be listening to us.

 

Can I say without a doubt that people from freedomworks weren't there? No, I'm sure there were a few local people who also consider themselves members of freedomworks there. But that organization really had nothing to do with the people that showed up. Do I think some people that showed up looked up talking points from that website, sure. I've been on that web site before today and have looked up things.

 

I've also been on http://www.barackobama.com/ and looked at what they were doing. BTW, the site I just posted was trying to get pro-healthcare people to Caster's townhall also, and that site IS NOT a local group. So, who is it that's trying to astroturf these meetings?

 

I'm sorry for those of you who won't see it, but these ARE local protests and not astroturfs. The people don't want this and are turning out to tell our reps that. Unfortunately, our reps don't believe us any more than the doubters here do. I think they will believe us when we vote them out though.

Melissa

[Jenny in Atl]

Hello Jenny! It so nice to see you. Would you please be so very kind as to support 'thousands'? I have tried to ask that from everyone who has stated numerical facts to show where they came up with their numbers. Yes, I am sorry about your daughter.:grouphug: My father has had Parkinson's disease for 12 years now and 13 years ago he had prostate cancer. He has been able to obtain insurance here in New Jersey. He just switched last year.

 

Even if I gave you statistics, unless they were from Fox News you would not believe them. I'm glad your father found insurance, unfortunately I know way too many people personally who have not been so lucky (either denied or had caps placed on care despite paying expensive premiums). Most are self employed. Maybe I should move to NJ?

 

Here's a shot at the thousands...http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills/index.html

Edited August 12, 2009 by Jenny in Atl
added link