Swine Flu and pregnancy

[Supertechmom]

Okay! I need some help. I couldn't find any "real" numbers about swine flu and being pregnant. And since we haven't really gone thru a full flu season but have been in the downside and off season with this particular flu, I know how it is playing out in other countries right now would be important to know.

 

They are recommending pregnant women in the US be the first to get the swine flu vaccine due to pregnant women being affected at greater rates, higher death rates, and higher severe complications.

 

However, I can't find figures to back this up. I don't do flu vaccines, we selectively vaccinate as it is and I like to get all my little stats in a nice neat row before agreeing to anything. But I can't find stats.

 

What I would like to know:

 

1)around the world - how many pregnant women have been infected?

2) how many pregnant women have had "complications"

3) what are those complications and the percentages of those?

4) What has been the death rate for pregnant women

5) and how many of those are due to previous medical conditions that would be a problem anyway with the flu?

6)medical care(lack of, late access, poor care etc) more of an issue with the complications - ie with access to good care, excellent drs and major medical centers lessens or negates the complications?

 

I'm just not having any luck today finding any real numbers. I'm getting lots of generalizations, lots of scary articles and dire warnings, but not the actual numbers all of this is based on. Does anybody have a site that would list such stuff? Or have an inside scoop?

 

If swine flu is attacking pregnant woman and they are dying like flies, then that makes the vaccine far more important to get for me than a handful of pregnant women with underlying health issues in addition to pregnancy had to be hospitalized in the back country without a dr in site for miles and a few of those died, KWIM? But just being told that pregnant women should get this vaccine first because we are at a high risk of complications makes me want to know my risk factors compared to a new, unknown, not fully tested vaccine that the last time one was developed did more damage than good. But I can't seem to find any figures.

 

Thanks!!!

[MomLovesClassics]

First, I do not think a vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman that has not been proven safe and effective. This vaccine is being rushed to market big time, so I would be extra cautious where it is concerned. As far as pregnancy goes, I would say be careful as far as what you put into your body, and keep you body as healthy as possible. Taking precautions about being in crowded places, that one would not normally take.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I read a short article in my local newspaper yesterday that encouraged pregnant women to get the swine flu vaccine. All it said was that pregnant women accounted for 6% of the swine flu deaths even though they are only 1% of the population.

 

At this point I don't plan on getting the vaccine.

[KellyGirl]

I've been wondering about this as well... we do normally get flu shots (lots of breathing problems in our family and my dh works w/ the homeless) but I am thinking I will delay/be choosy with vacs for this baby (due in Nov).

 

This article gives some of the numbers for the US, but I know there are still some holes in it. The full article is here, and below is the part that pertains.

 

CDC data indicate swine flu is at least as dangerous. Of 302 U.S. deaths attributed to swine flu to date, the CDC has detailed information on 266 of them. The agency has found that 15 of the 266 were pregnant women — or about 6 percent.The first American with swine flu to die was a pregnant woman in Texas. Judy Trunnell, 33, died May 5 after slipping into a coma and giving birth to a healthy baby girl, delivered by Cesarean section.

Some infected pregnant women have other health problems. Trunnell, for example, also had asthma. But many of the pregnant women who died were considered relatively healthy, suggesting pregnancy itself is a significant risk, Jamieson said.

"I think the whole concept that this flu only affects pregnant women with underlying medical conditions is incorrect," Jamieson said.

[Elohcin]

All I can say is that I am pregnant and due in Nov and I will not be getting the vaccine. I will do everything I can nutritionally to boost my immune system. My husband is in health care and he is really wary of it too. He thinks the whole swine flu ruckus so far is media enhanced. Most of the cases they have seen have been extremely mild. Reguardless, I am concerned about viral illness and will prepare accordingly-with diet, careful hygiene practices and caution (but not fear). God is in control-worrying won't help anything.

[Alice]

I think another thing to realize with the recommendations for the H1N1 vaccine is that noone really knows what H1N1 is going to be like or do in the fall/winter. When planning from a public health standpoint it is important to plan for worse case scenerios and to use the informatin you have to make recommendations that make the most sense at the time. But the recs are changing and fluid and will likely change more. As a physician, we are getting recommendations regularly (at least biweekly) forwarded to us from the Health Department and other organizations.

 

Right now, the current strain of H1N1 is very mild, probably milder than the seasonal influenza we usually see. I've seen a lot of patients who presumably have it (We don't test for it but they test positive for Influenza A and so likely have H1N1 as we don't usually see flu this time of year and in surveillance studies 99% of influenza virus circulating right now is H1N1.) The patients I've seen are sick but not terribly so and have often had a milder disease than typical seasonal flu.

 

I think the pregnant women recommendation for the vaccine comes from a few different things. In some studies the rate of mortaility with H1N1 seems to be slightly higher in pregnant women (as cited above). Also, it is well documented that pregnant women are higher risk with seasonal influenza and in past pandemics have had a highter mortality rate. Noone knows if H1N1 will continue to be a farily mild virus or will follow the pattern of past pandemics and mutate into something that causes much more severe disease. Obviously, from a public health standpoint they are planning as if it will be the much more severe disease.

[Katiebug_1976]

I don't do flu vaccines either, and even though I am due in mid November, I do not plan on getting this one either. I will use elderberry tincture to ward off and virus that may come my way and trust that God knows whats best.:001_smile:

[Elohcin]

Also realize that the vaccine is only good for the strain it is developed for-as soon as/if it mutates (it is expected to), the vaccine will not be as useful.

[Mommyof4ks]

I read a short article in my local newspaper yesterday that encouraged pregnant women to get the swine flu vaccine. All it said was that pregnant women accounted for 6% of the swine flu deaths even though they are only 1% of the population.

 

At this point I don't plan on getting the vaccine.

 

This is what I heard on the radio news yesterday.

 

I don't think I would get the vax, but I would stay inside the house and away from crowds at all costs. If DH can work from home this might be a good time to request that.

[PineFarmMom]

I don't do the flu vaccine either. I never have, actually. Last night dh was talking about the swine flu and pregnancy and how careful I need to be. I just can't see me taking that shot when I don't have enough proof of its safety.

[redmom3]

I am not due till Nov. too,

 

but wondering what do you guys consider a crowd? Church?-My DH is one of the pastors, so we always go(around 120 people and dd2 is in nursery with about 8 others).

 

What about Wal-Mart, zoo?

I am on antibiotics now for another sinus infection-does this mean that my immune system is weak?

I went to my midwife yesterday and they didn't mention to be cautious or anything.

[sassenach]

My ds had surgery earlier this week and was in the PICU. The charge nurse said that they have been completely inundated with swine flu patients. She is very concerned about what this will look like in the fall. She said that most of the kids they have seen were compromised in some other way, but they have also had several otherwise healthy kids who were infants. The concern for her is that summer is usually a down time for them and if it's this bad now, she's afraid the actual flu season will be extreme.

 

I saw an article that stated in a 2 month period, there were 30 something swine flu deaths, and 13 of them were pregnant women. It also said that none of them had received early anti viral meds. So if you choose not to be vaccinated, I would be hyper vigilent about getting anti virals at the first sign of flu.

 

As for us, we vaccinate. I have a special needs kid. We have always vaccinated for flu and always will. I do understand that it is a very personal choice though, and I don't judge anyone for choosing not to.

[Rainbows]

I'm very cautious about getting any vaccine, especially a brand new one, when pregnant. The idea of injecting something into my body that may or may not have a negative impact on a developing baby scares the heck out of me.

 

There would have to be extreme circumstances for me to go ahead with the swine flu shot (pregnant or not).

[lilbean05]

We are in the same boat too, due in October, and we are really struggling with what to do, mostly in regards to how "cautious" we need to be. I have been following this very closely all summer and it seems that there have been many infected pregnant women who fare just fine (lots of women on babycenter who talk about this) and there is an article I read a month or so back about how in California there were 3 pregnant women on life support from swine flu complications, all of whom were healthy otherwise, and then 2 of them were released and sent home. Finally, I have noticed in all of my looking around that many of the pregnant women who are dying are doing so after the baby is delivered via C-section. Women is very sick, they decide to deliver the baby, do a C-section, mom dies after surgery.

 

With ALL of that being said, I have pulled my 2 year old out of little gym classes and my 4 year old daughter out of all of her classes except one gymnastics class. We were going to finish out this session (a few more weeks) and now we are trying to decide if we should pull her out and then huddle up in the house until the baby is born, with my husband being the only person really exposing himself to any germs (by going to work) OR if that is being too crazy and we should just live our life and wash our hands and pray for the best. My husband's thought is that my DD probably wants her mom more than a gymnastics class, but we don't know if we are being too paranoid. It is hard to say.

[Rainbows]

We are in the same boat too, due in October, and we are really struggling with what to do, mostly in regards to how "cautious" we need to be. I have been following this very closely all summer and it seems that there have been many infected pregnant women who fare just fine (lots of women on babycenter who talk about this) and there is an article I read a month or so back about how in California there were 3 pregnant women on life support from swine flu complications, all of whom were healthy otherwise, and then 2 of them were released and sent home. Finally, I have noticed in all of my looking around that many of the pregnant women who are dying are doing so after the baby is delivered via C-section. Women is very sick, they decide to deliver the baby, do a C-section, mom dies after surgery.

 

With ALL of that being said, I have pulled my 2 year old out of little gym classes and my 4 year old daughter out of all of her classes except one gymnastics class. We were going to finish out this session (a few more weeks) and now we are trying to decide if we should pull her out and then huddle up in the house until the baby is born, with my husband being the only person really exposing himself to any germs (by going to work) OR if that is being too crazy and we should just live our life and wash our hands and pray for the best. My husband's thought is that my DD probably wants her mom more than a gymnastics class, but we don't know if we are being too paranoid. It is hard to say.

 

this is exactly what I wonder about....does doing surgery on a sick mom traumatize her system to point where she can't fight off the illness? Im not wording this right b/c Im multitasking with my 3 yr old lol. In other words, if they did not do a c-section, would the mom have a greater chance at survival?

[Supertechmom]

He thinks the whole swine flu ruckus so far is media enhanced.

 

Exactly why I want cold hard figures and not just percents of this and that (which are easy to make them back up whatever standpoint you have)

 

I think another thing to realize with the recommendations for the H1N1 vaccine is that noone really knows what H1N1 is going to be like or do in the fall/winter.

 

Which is why I was wondering how it is playing out in the countries that are in flu season right now. Has it mutated? Is it worse? Or is it still rather mild?

 

Also realize that the vaccine is only good for the strain it is developed for-as soon as/if it mutates (it is expected to), the vaccine will not be as useful.

 

Does that mean the vaccine being developed now is for the mild version and thus if it mutates the vaccine offers no protection or won't prevent the worse version?

 

but wondering what do you guys consider a crowd? Church?-My DH is one of the pastors, so we always go(around 120 people and dd2 is in nursery with about 8 others).

 

What about Wal-Mart, zoo?

 

 

I personally will never take an infant to church before 8 weeks of age ever again. And then I will never allow them to be held or passed around or put in nursery. And I will never let my family attend church during flu season with an infant in the house. My ped absolutely shudders at the notion and calls churches "harbingers of doom" for infant health. Too many people feel the need to attend church no matter how sick or crappy they feel when they should be in bed at home. It may be "just a cold" or "just a cough" to you but it turned out to be pneumonia for my 6 month old in nursery and RSV and a week in the hospital for my 6 week old (who stayed home and brother brought home the "cough") I've never since allowed my kids to go to church or be in church nursery especially during flu season when they were an infant or we had an infant in the house. Twice bitten was enough for me. we just skipped church and prayed hard. :D

 

The concern for her is that summer is usually a down time for them and if it's this bad now, she's afraid the actual flu season will be extreme.

 

That's what I am wondering. How bad is bad going to be? Or is this the bad and it isn't going to follow regular flu season numbers? And we really won't know for another year or two ,will we?

[Faithseed]

I'm due in very early Jan. I'm with you other ladies wondering exactly how all of this is going to play out. Our family is very fortunate in that in the event of an emergency, we should be able to hunker down. We have a small farm, and my husband works from home. We are planning a home birth either way, but I've very nervously had the thought of "what if we have to have an unassisted birth" due to an infected midwife? I don't say this lightly, mind you. I'm not (normally!) an alarmist :D

 

I have absolutely no plans to get a vaccine, though.

[OHGrandma]

Our daughter is 31 weeks pregnant. She and her 6 & 8 year old daughters moved in with us this summer as she sorts out some issues with the father of her baby. We already had permanent custody of our sons 10 year old boy. I've afterschooled him for a couple years, but he and the 2 granddaughters will be going to the same public school in 4 weeks.

My husband is on a lot of drugs for rheumatoid arthritis, our daughter is supposed to be on bedrest as of last week, and they both have mild asthma. Since I work off the farm, I'm thinking I might get my first flu vaccine this year, and have the 6, 8, & 10 year old vaccinated, too. If I could work from home, I'd keep those 3 home in a heartbeat. It's an awful balancing act, which has the most risk, which will keep the most healthy?

[Rainbows]

just wanted to add, the only year I ever had my kids get the flu shot was the year DD ended up getting the flu and developing pneumonia (and narrowly missed hospitalization). We did the vax since we had a new baby in the house, but after all that we skipped it the next time we had a new baby. One of my kids is egg allergic and can't get the vax anyway.

[Dirtroad]

More people (by huge margin) die from the usual FLU than this swine flu... but they are using it to scare the heck out of everyone.

 

They are rushing these vaccines into the market with little to NO TESTING. Don't do it. Just wash your hands and listen up for areas that may have a few cases showing up... and don't go there.

 

I can't imagine why they are making such a fuss with so many more die from the regular FLU.

[redmom3]

but wondering what do you guys consider a crowd? Church?-My DH is one of the pastors, so we always go(around 120 people and dd2 is in nursery with about 8 others).

 

What about Wal-Mart, zoo?

 

 

 

I personally will never take an infant to church before 8 weeks of age ever again. And then I will never allow them to be held or passed around or put in nursery. And I will never let my family attend church during flu season with an infant in the house. My ped absolutely shudders at the notion and calls churches "harbingers of doom" for infant health. Too many people feel the need to attend church no matter how sick or crappy they feel when they should be in bed at home. It may be "just a cold" or "just a cough" to you but it turned out to be pneumonia for my 6 month old in nursery and RSV and a week in the hospital for my 6 week old (who stayed home and brother brought home the "cough") I've never since allowed my kids to go to church or be in church nursery especially during flu season when they were an infant or we had an infant in the house. Twice bitten was enough for me. we just skipped church and prayed hard. :D

 

I too do not take new infants to church and will probably wait even longer with this one. Really I was wondering what kind of crowds preg. moms are avoiding.:bigear:

Edited July 31, 2009 by redmom3

[redmom3]

Ok-why are my quotes not in blue?:glare:

[Matryoshka]

Ok-why are my quotes not in blue?:glare:

 

You need to add a front slash inbetween the first bracket and the word "quote" in the last quote field. You can edit and resubmit and it should work fine. :)

[Supertechmom]

Ok-why are my quotes not in blue?:glare:

 

 

I don't know. I was wondering too.

 

But a crowd for me is really anything that would cause people to be close to each other - like in church- or where people in mass, well or sick, may go like Wal mart. So wal mart may be deserted at 1:00 am (which is when I go in the dead of winter and flu season) but I'm not taking the kids in and I am going with lots of clorox and whatever germ killing stuff I can find. No crowd but still a crowd kind of place that I would want to avoid.

[Perry]

Also realize that the vaccine is only good for the strain it is developed for-as soon as/if it mutates (it is expected to), the vaccine will not be as useful.

 

It's possible, but it doesn't *necessarily* have to happen that way. It's complicated, but the influenza virus has 8 genes, 2 of which code for the surface proteins hemagglutinin ("H") and neuraminidase ("N"). Those proteins are the H and N that identify the subtype of flu virus (H1N1, H3N2, H5N1, etc.). The vaccine is produced based on these specific proteins, causing your body to build immunity to them. As the H and N genes slowly mutate, your antibodies to those specific proteins are less and less useful.

 

The factors that determine virulence (how severe the disease is and how sick you will get) of the influenza virus aren't completely understood, but they are probably located on more than one gene. They may be located on the "H" gene, but they may be located elsewhere. So a mutation that makes the disease more virulent will only decrease the effectiveness of the vaccine if it is located on one of the gene segments from which the vaccine is made.

 

Even if the virus mutates the vaccine should offer at least partial protection.

[Perry]

More people (by huge margin) die from the usual FLU than this swine flu... but they are using it to scare the heck out of everyone.

 

Who are "they" and what is their motive?

Edited July 31, 2009 by Perry
Must. Proofread.

[redmom3]

ok thanks--i took off who said it at the beginning, but I get it now

[Lucy in Australia]

We are in the middle of our winter, here, and I am 28 weeks pregnant. Swine flu is a concern, but I would definitely not vaccinate, even if it were available now. I'm taking moderate precautions :lots & lots of handwashing for the whole family, taking extra vitamins as prescribed by my naturopath, and avoiding crowded, enclosed places as much as I can without going overboard. We were going to go to the museum early this week - I talked my kids into going to the zoo instead. I just couldn't face the thought of being in a building for a whole day, coming across school groups every 5 minutes. At least the zoo is in open air. I still do grocery shopping as I always do, though, and we still go to church regularly. I just move away really fast from anyone who is sneezing & coughing and I don't care anymore if I hurt anyone's feelings :)

[Jumping In Puddles]

 

Even if the virus mutates the vaccine should offer at least partial protection.

 

Are you planning on getting vaccinated?

 

What is the best way to keep ourselves healthy and avoid swine flu?

[fivetails]

Here's a couple of websites that might interest people :)

 

Pandemic Flu Information Forum

 

Plan for Pandemic

 

Both sites, their initial focus was on Avian Flu ~ but given the current pandemic, discussion has changed direction. I'm a member on both and have found some very friendly & knowledgeable people kicking about. People are tracking cases & fatalities, monitoring news from around the world, discussing the potential that this pandemic may have in the fall & what we can do to be prepared for various possibilities, and lots of other stuff.

[Perry]

Are you planning on getting vaccinated?

 

What is the best way to keep ourselves healthy and avoid swine flu?

 

We won't be first in line but we won't be waiting long.

There will likely be a vaccine shortage, and I feel pretty confident the *potential* risk of the disease is far higher than the risk of the vaccine. Right now the flu is pretty mild, but by the time it changes (*if* it changes) there probably won't be any vaccine left. I'm not willing to chance it. DH is a Family Practice doctor and will get it as soon as it's available.

 

The influenza vaccine has a long record of safety. This vaccine isn't different than any of the flu vaccines that have been around for years, except that it's a swine strain. If there are safety issues, they will likely show up quickly, so if nothing shows up in the clinical trials, I won't have any worries about it. There is a remote possibility of rare complications that won't show up in the clinical trials, but I'm willing to take that small chance.

 

 

Good handwashing is really, really important. I have hand sanitizer in the car and will keep extra on hand this fall and winter.

 

Social distancing. Usually a flu sweeps through a community, makes a lot of people sick, and then moves on in a few weeks. If it's mild, we'll probably continue our usual routine. If it's bad, we won't be going out much. If it is severe, I wouldn't be surprised to see school closings and recommendations to avoid activities. Those things do help halt the spread of disease, although they won't stop it altogether. I'm not planning to stock up on groceries.

 

I have a box of N-95 masks although I don't plan to use them unless the situation is really serious. Cheaper masks are useless.

 

Good nutrition. Increasing your Vitamin D probably helps.

 

A recent publication suggests that obesity might be an important risk factor for severe disease related to this strain of flu. It isn't thought to be a risk factor for seasonal influenza, so this is a new finding. So obese people might want to consider themselves at particularly high risk.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Perry

[Supertechmom]

Fivetails !!!

 

Thanks for the links. I found what I was looking for here and the one for world wide pregnant fatalities here

 

Hopefully, the numbers are right and the info correct but at least that gives me more than I have been able to find so far.

 

I knew the hive mind would have it.

 

Thanks!

 

PS Now I may never leave the house again ;) after all that reading.

[fivetails]

 

PS Now I may never leave the house again ;) after all that reading.

 

Yeah.. you kinda have to watch out for that ~ if I spend too much time on those sites in one go, I start planning ways to surround my house with an anti-viral coated plastic bubble. :tongue_smilie:

 

(They've got a lot of excellent info and access to more of the same though - oh and that reminds me, here's another very large one: FluTrackers )

[Peela]

I dont understand what all the hullaballoo is either, since swine flu is killing far less popele than ordinary flu is....but I think they are getting concerned when it hits your winter later this year, that it might take off, mutate, and get very bad. But the truth is, it is unknown- they may just be preparing for worst case scenario since so many scientists in the last decade have said there WILL be a superbug soon. The whole vaccination thing is seeming very suspicious, but maybe I just read too much.

 

Here in Australia in my city there have been a few deaths but most if not all had underlying medical conditions. Yes, pregnant women have died. I don't know the stats though. Our newspaper did actually quote a recommendation- I cant remember whether it was the Health Dept or an individual doctor- saying that all pregnant women should be wearing masks in public and staying out of crowds. Then it went on to talk about the social stigma of wearing masks in our country, when it is very common in Japan- and perhaps it will become common here too. (I bought some a few years back for this reason but have yet to use them). I wonder how bad it would have to get for us to start wearing masks.

 

I dont want to jump on any bandwagon with this one....I want to keep my mind open so that I can respond appropriately. It could get bad. There could be a govt ulterior motive (or behind the govts) in pushing it. I just dont know but I want to keep my eyes open. I wont be rushing to get a vaccine though and I am getting emails saying that govts are preparing mandatory vaccine laws in some countries. Now that would be bad- far worse than actually having the swine flu go through, because that involves huge erosion of freedoms. But that may be not true too. I am watching that more closely than I am watching the swine flu stats.

[AndyJoy]

My grandmother called me yesterday to tell me she heard on the news that I should get the Swine Flu vaccine. I don't think so, however. It's just too new for me to want to take that risk.

 

Plus, I was actually exposed in the beginning of July, and didn't get it, so hopefully I'm ok at this point. My sister, who doesn't often think things through, picked me up at the airport, gave me a hug, then told me her boyfriend was horribly ill and she was getting sick too. It turns out it was swine flu! :glare: She and 10 others spent the weekend at a cabin together and all came down with it. It never even occurred to her to limit contact with her pregnant sister! I had the regular flu early in my pregnancy and spent the most miserable week of my life in bed. I was NOT looking forward to battling another flu, but praise God, I didn't get it.