Looking for Advice on 21 month-old

[....]

I have 4 kids: a 7 year-old, 6 year-old, 4 year-old and 21 month-old. You would think I would have the answer to this question...right? :glare:

 

OK, so the older kids are wonderful and the 7 and 6 year-olds are like mini-adults. The 7 year-old is probably writing her acceptance speech for her Nobel Peace Prize right now and the 6 year-old will actually vaccuum and shovel snow. :gnorsi:

 

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this situation...? The second we walk into a store, the 21 month-old just completely loses her mind. It's like I need to call an exorcist or something. She will throw herself on the floor, cry, pick fights with the 4 year-old, throw things from the aisle onto the floor, throw things from the cart onto the floor, run up and down the aisles, refuse to walk...if I pick her up, she arches her back, slaps me, screams, etc. I understand the whole distraction and diversion with toddlers, but seriously, what do you do in the store?? :001_huh:

 

 

You would think I would have the solution for this situation, but the older kids were always pretty calm.

 

Any suggestions? (besides calling a priest) :confused:

 

Also, do you think time-outs are beyond a 21 month-old's comprehension??

[kaylk in tx]

seriously, it sounds like that environment is just too much for her to handle right now. i have one like that... easily over stimulated and prone to meltdowns. much better to avoid those situations that you know are triggers until she grows up and can handle it better.

[Stacie]

My friend's son did the exact same thing. He was diagnosed with autism, and as part of his therapy they found out the buzzing of the flourescent lights in the store was excruiciating to his senses. She put earplugs on him every time they had to shop in such a store and he did great. Perhaps she has a similar sensitivity to sound. It may be worth a try, especially if you can put her in the cart with a small lap desk and coloring book to use while she has earplugs in, to distract her attention from her ears. I'm sorry you're going through this!

[Dirtroad]

Great books by EZZO... Baby Wise II and Child Wise hit your era. They gave great advice & examples... and gave me sanity! This would focus on routine, reactions, causes, and discipline advice.

 

If not an issue like autism, perhaps preparation and simple conversations can help. It may be overwhelming... or some weird sound... notice the things around on a visit without child... then discuss them as you drive over. Make first trip short. Some kids "freak" at the doctors or perceived stressful place and preparation is a great gift to them & you. I wish I could offer you more.

 

I hope it is just a phase and not more.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Dirtroad

[....]

Normally, I would do shopping when my husband was home from work, but he moved 800 miles away. :confused: We're joining him in a couple of months, but we have to sell our house first. :nopity:

[Pamela H in Texas]

A couple ideas.

 

First, it sounds like sensory overload to me...and stores are very sensory overloading. But most kids come along.

 

A LOT of people find that spankings work for this. I will NOT suggest that (as I don't suggestion punishment, much less hitting children). The reason I mention it though is because there is a reason that this "works" many times. Kids with an overloaded sensory system tend to have a "reset" button. A couple firm swats resets the system. But you don't have to act like an undisciplined toddler by hitting someone yourself in order to reset the kiddo. Knowing HOW it works allows you to choose kinder, gentler methods. Why hit a kid if you don't have to?

 

You may have to play with what things works for her. For my son, rocking and spinning worked well (both of those are appropriate; he had some inappropriate things also, unfortunately). Pushing and pulling often work. Some kids can do something small like chewing, clicking, tongue or toe aerobics. You might be able to have her "take care of" an extra heavy large stuffed animal on her lap. A weighted vest or blanket would work but kids like animals better oftentimes. Playdough or putty may work. You can kinda find out by observation around the house. Does she beg to go on the swing? Does does spend a good deal of time on the sit-n-spin? Is playdough a fave activity? What kinds of foods does she like? What is her fave toy and activity with it?

 

Anyway, I DEFINITELY agree with trying to prepare her. I'd also do shopping EARLY in the day, when child is fed, not tired, etc. You might give her cubes of cheese on the way or to eat in the seat. You might try special "store" sunglasses. Keep the trip very short.

 

Basically, be proactive so you don't feel the need to be reactive.

 

And know that this is probably very short term. She is probably just going through a growth spurt neurologically and is a bit out of whack. Of course, you'll want to remember this if there are any developmental concerns down the line, but that probably isn't the case. I would guess that most kids go through a spurt like this. ANd as long as you're not feeding into it, she'll likely come out of it regardless of how you handle it. The above suggestions (and punishment for people who use that) are simply ways that parents feel they are doing something. The good thing about using sensory type ideas is that they are respectful and mild, but also, if the child does remain a bit overstimulated throughout childhood (or has some issue), then you are learning ways to help her learn to control such things. These are life skills for people who are a bit more sensitive.

Edited July 27, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[kmacnchs]

I think as a parent you can tell if it is sensory overload or a disobedient heart. My 21 mo is just an "all over the place" child and I just stick her into the cart. I see it as when she is able to obey, she can have the freedom of independence...just my 2c

[....]

Thanks for all the suggestions. :)

 

I think the sensory theory really makes a lot of sense. Our toddler isn't talking yet and trying to explain something to her is...hmmm... :w00t:

 

I am going to try a few of the suggestions and if anyone has another magic trick up their sleeve, I'm all :bigear:.

[jensway]

Sounds like sensory overload. My suggestions would be to go early before child tired, go when store not crowded. Try and focus her attention on something--whether it be a book, some little snack etc.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

DS hasn't had many tantrums about it but he would run around and cause trouble if I let him walk on his own at stores. He always goes in the cart when we go shopping. He doesn't have a problem when he is in there. I also take this kids first thing in the morning. I find that we all are in a better state to cope with everything if we are all fed and not tired.

[....]

No, she doesn't speak 20 words. I think maybe 5. She actually did make a sign for a hairbrush today (she patted her hair) and tried to get me to give it to her. Maybe the baby signing would help her a little. :glare: I noticed the more children we had the later and later they all started talking. I wonder why... :confused:

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I do highly recommend teaching signs! Not only are they another way for your dc to communicate but they get you communicating with your children more (which sounds like it might be part of the reason your dd isn't speaking very much). Despite the fact that I'm an introvert and would prefer to talk less all of us spend a lot of time talking in our house and the second and third children have started talking more and earlier than the first. DS was/is a high needs child and learning to communicate really, really helped.

[hornblower]

It's tough when you're essentially single parenting for a while. :grouphug:

 

It does sound like for whatever reason it's just too much for her. It could be noise, lighting, smell, echo.... we don't really need to know, but I know at the same time how much we 'need' to, kwim? I don't think is defiance. I don't use time-outs. *

 

Is public school still out in your area? Can you find a teen to either babysit or just to come with you and either stay in the car or wander around the parking lot with her?

 

I agree with avoiding it as much as possible, maybe going to a smaller different shop.

 

Early in the morning.

 

Or very late in the evening.

 

Is it the cart? Can you have one of your older kids push her in her stroller instead? Can you schedule it so it's at a time when she's usually calm & happy? Can you try doing lots of very quick trips rather than one long one? Can you give her something to hold right away? Just grab the first thing you see and let her hold it - she might lose interest in it in a while but if it keeps her occupied - it's worth a few bucks to have a calm shopping trip. If she's interested for a bit & loses interest, swap her for something else. Boxes of dry pasta make nice noises & won't break if she drops them.... A loaf of bread is squishy & the wrapping is crinkly & she could eat parts of it.

 

Does she still get a bottle? If so, maybe bring that. If not, can you fill an old bottle with just water or some watered down juice & see if the novelty of it amuses her?

 

best wishes

 

 

*I'd recommend Gordon Neufeld's Hold on to Your Kids if you're looking for general parenting advice. He has a 2h lecture on time outs you can purchase on his website for immediate download:

http://www.gordonneufeld.com/av.php (about 2/3 down the page)

"Time-outs - the kind that involves separation from parents - has become a popular practice for dealing with problem behaviour. The issue is not that it works when it does, but why it works and what it costs in the long term. Developmental science is unequivocal in its findings of relationship and emotion being the two most important factors in healthy development. Time-outs, in the way they are typically practiced at least, are injurious to both these factors, wounding children and provoking defensive instincts to back out of attachment and numb vulnerable feelings. Once assumed to be safe practice and still recommended as the discipline of choice by over 80% of today's pediatricians, we must now become conscious of the risks of such discipline. Dr. Neufeld elucidates the trouble with time-outs and points the way to discipline that is attachment-safe and developmentally friendly. "

[Dobela]

Does she do it in all stores or just certain ones? My son has sensory issues and would absolutely become a beast in some stores. WalMart and a grocery store called Price Cutter were the absolute worst. He would scream, cry, run away, be loud.... I could just go on and on. Finally I realized that he didn't do this in all stores. If the store was quieter, didn't have such harsh lighting, didn't have loud constant music or speaker noise, or just wasn't so busy in general he did much better. WalMart still sets him off. The noise is never ending there, the lights are very bright, and the music varies with every song from classical to hip hop. It is like his nervous system is being used for target practice. If I had to take him shopping, I made sure I had a list, stuck to the list, and even shopped at different stores if ned be so I could make the trip as short as possible.

[skaterbabs]

She's reacting to something environmentally. Possibly the florescent lights. Stores are tough for EVERYONE, especially small children.

 

Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka is a really great book that will help you determine the WHY behind the behaviour - and help you to prevent undesirable behaviour.

[shusband]

My youngest is much more intense than the older two. When he was that age, he could handle about 15 minutes in a grocery cart before he flipped out. If I carried him in a hiking backpack he lasted for an hour. Summer ds6, ds4, ds2 and ds#4 arriving in December

[Terabith]

DEFINITELY start signing. I cannot even begin to express how much it can change your life. My daughter had a hard time speaking and was in speech therapy from 15 months old, but her signing took off like lightning, thanks to Signing Time (which I cannot recommend highly enough), and she was pretty communicative. The bonus was that when she started talking, the signing had kept her language skills up to par and she started speaking pretty much at age level.

 

Five words at 21 months is a bit concerning. I would consider having her evaluated by early intervention.

 

It sounds like sensory overload. I'd try to minimize her time in the store, and when she's there, keep her confined. (Backpack or cart)

[Hockey Mom]

No, she doesn't speak 20 words. I think maybe 5. She actually did make a sign for a hairbrush today (she patted her hair) and tried to get me to give it to her. Maybe the baby signing would help her a little. :glare: I noticed the more children we had the later and later they all started talking. I wonder why... :confused:

 

I know in our house it's because the older kids would "talk" for them. IOW, instead of the baby saying, "I want a drink", one of the older kids would come to me and say, "Can the baby have a drink?" I didn't catch on to this at first (thinking the older kids were just being helpful). Once I made the baby ask for things himself, his speech took off.

 

WRT the OP, I have a middle child that was just like that. He is my independent thinker. My strong-willed boy. I loathed taking him with me to the store because he would act out every single time. When he was around 21 months old, in an act of desperation, I gave him my iPod to listen to. That evolved into letting him watch movies on my iPod. Around 3 y/o I bought him a Leapster to play. He was only allowed to play it when I had to take him to the store with me so he never grew bored with it.

 

He is now 6.5 y/o, and has seemed to have outgrown his weariness of going to the store. But when I know I'm going to be a while at the store, I still pack the Didj (the next step in the Leapster line).

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I second the book Raising Your Spirited Child. It is one of my favorite parenting books.

 

I sort of said this in my previous posts, but learning to communicate has made a HUGE difference for my kids. When they know that I understand what they are trying to say it makes them feel much better and more calm.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

My youngest is much more intense than the older two. When he was that age, he could handle about 15 minutes in a grocery cart before he flipped out. If I carried him in a hiking backpack he lasted for an hour.

:iagree: DS has always lasted much longer in my Ergo carrier. I carry him on the front.

[....]

Thank-you for all the suggestions!

 

I am going to start using my ergo baby carrier again and I'm going to start doing some baby signs with her.

 

I also (feel enormously guilty about this but 800-mile-away-husband was fine with it) have hired someone to come in for about 4 hours every Monday so I can leave. The logistics behind this single parent thing is just next to impossible. I can get a LOT done in 4 hours! :auto:

[Ottakee]

DO NOT feel guilty about getting some help so you can leave for a few hours.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

DO NOT feel guilty about getting some help so you can leave for a few hours.

:iagree:Or do whatever you want for 4 hours for that matter!

[coralloyd]

All of my kiddos are very strong willed (they get this from both dh & I ;)). However, I feel that I have trained thier wills pretty well now.

 

This is what I would do: Leave your cart, take her out to the car, and buckle her in her car seat (tell her why you are doing this). Then close the door and walk behind the vehicle. After a little while when it looks like she has calmed down, go ask her if she ready to behave. If she continues with an attitude or fit, promply close the door and walk behind the vehicle again. When she is finally ready to obey, tell her that she may not throw fits, if she does she will go back out to the van. Give her hugs and kisses, have her say sorry. Then take her back in the store, find your cart, and continue shopping. You might have to do this a few times the first time, but she will get the point fairly quickly. Yes this is inconvenient to you, but it is worth it if you are willing to do the work.

Now with my kiddos, if there are any problems all I have to say is, " Do you need to go out to the van?" and the issue is resolved.

 

Edit: She is definately not too young for this, she probably understands way more than you give her credit for.

Edited July 29, 2009 by coralloyd

[mommy2be]

from I'm sure waaay more experienced mothers than I...

 

I wanted to also suggest that you older children try to interact with her while you shop. Have one of them push the cart so they're right there with her, and practice ABC's or sing Twinkle Twinkle or learn body parts (nose, eye, mouth, ear, etc.). This hopefully will keep her distracted and free you up to actually do the shopping. It may also help stimulate some speech... and it's also good for your older children to help out in that way, it will probably make them feel special too that they can help you out!

 

I'd also suggest a snack or drink or toy or something. Especially anything that is a comfort item.

 

While it may be a sensory issue it may also be just that she hates shopping! Can you blame her? That's about what my husband does when he has to shop too... LOL! :lol: As we're walking into the store he's already telling me "We're not going to look at all kinds of stuff... we're just getting what we need and then leaving. I want to hurry up... blah blah blah" Because he already has this preconceived idea that shopping is terrible!

 

I agree with other posters that have suggested going at a good time. Make sure she is not sleepy or hungry...

 

While it's very frustrating and embarassing - try to keep your cool. Frustration and/or anger or anything like that is highly contagious and will escalte things very quickly! I prefer to distract and ignore negative behavior...

 

Good luck with everything! You're a trooper for being a single Mommy for this time!

[Mom22ns]

A few more suggestions for you. I will suggest if you think she is going into overload that you can try headphones. You can use just noise dampening headphones like those used on a shooting range or even headphones with music playing. This can block much of the overwhelming sensory input that she is receiving and can't block on her own.

 

Also a book suggestion, The Out of Sync Child. See if this resonates.

[coffeegal]

Does she do it in all stores or just certain ones? My son has sensory issues and would absolutely become a beast in some stores.

 

:iagree: I found when my oldest 3 were little that they were always well-behaved in some stores and always misbehaved in others. It was worth while to change where I shopped.

[Haiku]

My suggestion is to go to the store without the 21 month old.

 

Tara