getting along with radical unschoolers

[mazakaal]

The homeschool group near me is made up almost entirely of unschoolers, all at various points on the 'unschooling spectrum'. Today is our last day of the school year, and, due to burnout, I'm going to take a long break from formal school-work (except grammar and math drill), starting our next school year in late October, and will hopefully be able to fit in more trips to the homeschooling meetings. I rarely go to the meetings now, and while I kept telling everyone (including myself) that it was because it's so far away and was difficult to fit in time-wise, as I look forward to the opportunity to be more involved, I realize that part of the reason that I've not been more involved is that I feel completely out-of-the-loop there.

 

Now, while I completely respect each parent's right to educate their child as they wish, and while I think that child-led, but parent-directed (if that makes sense) education is wonderful, I find that I have a hard time at the homeschool meetings because we are so different from the radical unschoolers. I quite like the ladies as people, but I have nothing to talk to them about because we are so very different from them. Most of these ladies may fit in a bit of math, but otherwise let their kids follow their own interests. Some don't even do math with their kids. I'm not judging. They can do what they like. But I just feel so out of it, so on the outside because I actually go into the school-year with goals and plans and expect my children to learn.

 

This is the only homeschool group in the area, so finding a group of more like-minded people is not an option. I'm not sure what my question is. Anyone BTDT? How did you handle it?

[Chris in VA]

I'm sure if you mentioned your feelings of being burned out, they'd jump all over that...

 

I guess you just have to determine if their friendship and the time spent with them is worth the discomfort you feel as you encounter your different perspectives on education.

 

My sil is an unschooler, sort of--she's certainly child-led, and, while she does math, she doesn't plan for anything. Her child takes a few camp-type classes in the summer at the local folk school, and goes to dance class. They are always exploring something, reading something, discovering something. Sometimes I'm a little uncomfortable, telling her about the things we are doing, but she set a great boundary in the very beginning of her homeschool journey (she's two years behind me in experience), saying her daughter is not the same as my daughter, which I took to mean, "I will choose as I see fit--don't expect my dd to do the same things as your dd." I loved that, because it got the issue on the table and we went from there in mutual respect.

 

So, for me, if the group respected my right to educate as I see fit, even if they would choose differently from me, and I felt comfortable that my choices were not viewed with disdain or disapproval, I'd continue to enjoy the social aspect of the group, and perhaps keep an open mind, as we can all learn from each other.

[Stacy in NJ]

This is the only homeschool group in the area, so finding a group of more like-minded people is not an option. I'm not sure what my question is. Anyone BTDT? How did you handle it?

 

 

Yes, and no. There are several groups in my area but none of them reflex my philosphophy. There are primarily religiously based groups and unschooling groups. My preference would be for a classical/traditional academic group with no religious affiliation. So, I also feel a bit out of the loop at support group meetings or events. We joined a co-op for awhile, and while it really was a wonderful group, the religous aspect of it became overwhelming.

 

My advice is simply to take them for what they are and enjoy the group/activites you feel you can, knowing that there will be a certain distanced between you and them. It doesn't mean you can't make friends and get to know others, but you will need to protect your boundries. It may mean that you need to be a bit of a politician and not tread on topics that my divide. I think it's important to be clear about your own world view with those that you meet because you don't want to mislead them into thinking your philisophies line up. Basically, you need to balance being transparent about your approach while still accepting and even celebrating theirs.

 

HTH, Stacy

[Night Elf]

...I find that I have a hard time at the homeschool meetings because we are so different from the radical unschoolers.

 

In my own personal experience, the traditional homeschooling groups I joined spent nearly all their time together discussing curriculum and discipline. Honestly, it got so boring to go to those get-togethers. I started hanging out and playing with the kids instead of hanging with the moms.

 

OTOH, the unschooling group I joined spent time discussing anything but curriculum because it didn't really have a place in their lifestyles. It's true, sometimes they would talk about not restricting things like bedtime or meals, but I found that most of the time we talked about our families, our homes, cleaning, fashion and shoes, and fun things we had done that others might want to try. And, we all would be involved with our children at the same time rather than sending them off to play and to not interrupt the adults. It was really nice and I miss it so much. It's much too far away since we moved 4 years ago.

 

Adding: It occurred to me that some here might like to talk curriculum at their homeschool meetings and that my comment above might sound insulting. I didn't intend for it to be. I am trying to let the OP know what might happen at an unschooling gathering compared to a regular homeschool gathering. Every group I've been in has spent time talking badly about what others do in other groups. I've been in a secular group that dissed religious materials. I've been in a mostly Christian group that dissed most non-religious materials. I believe it's part of being in a group of people. But I've also learned that compared to many ladies on this board, my experiences in nearly everything I share seem far-fetched.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Night Elf

[BlsdMama]

Megan, you might be surprised. Check places like yahoo groups etc.

 

But honestly? I think you're asking for a lot of conflict and pressure and I'd probably pass on the group and activities as I could foresee a lot of issues. Many field trips can be done as family adventures. ;)

[Snickerdoodle]

In my own personal experience, the traditional homeschooling groups I joined spent nearly all their time together discussing curriculum and discipline.

......And, we all would be involved with our children at the same time rather than sending them off to play and to not interrupt the adults.

 

In my experience the radical unschoolers never stop talking about how they are the more evolved parents. I have been put on the spot a number of times as the "one who doesn't trust" in my kid's ability to learn. The children learned to walk by themselves, why don't you trust that they will learn mathematics by themselves?

 

And yes, I do take my kids to the park so they can go play by themselves. I need breaks from them too. In my opinion if we are at the park and they can't entertain themselves, we have a problem.

 

So, as usual, it's all a matter of perspective and experience.

[Pretty in Pink]

The group we just left (due to relocation) was great and we rarely sat around Park Day discussing homeschooling! I think that if we just sat around talking curriculum, or lack thereof, I would have found the group to be boring.

 

Can you talk about other things besides HSing?

[johnandtinagilbert]

I know my experience may not be typical, so please, anyone...no offense meant

 

Way back in the day (9 years ago) when we were in a mixed co-op (all shapes and sizes) we enjoyed the park days with unschoolers more b/c their kiddos seemed to be more physically able and had a stronger sense of adventure...something very important in our home. There was more of a free spirit about them that made playing in nature better for my kiddos.

 

On the other hand, during classtime, I couldn't stand for my kiddos to be near the unschoolers b/c they were poorly behaved in the formal classroom environment. The free for all I loved at the park, was not so nice in the classroom.

 

As for the mommies, I find women enjoyable in variety, but admit the ones that are, shall we say, a bit more staunch in their unschooling philosophies no different than talking to someone who is anti-home schooling. When I am looking for teacher support...I have found these boards best b/c I can get likeminded advice without all the drama and obligatory get togethers.

 

I am pretty heavy in academics, and have not often been impressed by a 11 or 12 year old who can't read well or write (not due to disability) and at the same time, am not impressed by kids who have no desire to be kids.

 

Am I making sense? In your case, if you feel out of place, it's probably b/c you are :grouphug: Perhaps embraccing what you can enjoy with these folks is a good idea, and just accepting the Hive is your source for curriculum stuff may help.

 

Boy, I'm sounding grouchy these days...sorry. I don't mean to be.

[Night Elf]

Looks like this is going to turn into another unschooling bash.

 

OP: try it once. If you like it great, if you don't fine. No biggie. You can even leave early if you find the group to be not compatible with your beliefs.

[dangermom]

I'm almost the only one in my group, too. Most of them are pretty unschooly, and none are classical. We just don't talk a whole lot about school stuff--and when we do, I think everyone tries to be respectful.

 

Yesterday several of us went swimming at a member's home, and we did talk about school, because I've just joined a charter school and everyone was curious about whether I'd run into anything worrisome yet. Although we have very different styles, none of us wants to have our curriculum choices dictated to us!

 

But most of the time we just talk about stuff besides curriculum and exactly what our kids are doing. We don't get too specific about all that. I like the folks there very much and they've been valuable friends for me and my kids.

 

I think I probably do feel more comfortable with them, though, partly because I lived in Berkeley for years and hippies make me feel at home. ;) The only classical group around is in the big city 2 hours away, and I thought about joining them for a few field trips, etc. until I found out that they require a statement of faith. SoF's are written to keep people like me out of groups, so I know I wouldn't be happy with them.

[mazakaal]

OP: try it once. If you like it great, if you don't fine. No biggie. You can even leave early if you find the group to be not compatible with your beliefs.

 

I've been there plenty of times. I'm just not regular. I go to occasional special events, maybe 6-8 times per year since it began about 3 years ago. It's not that I'm afraid to go, just that I'm trying to figure out how to make it work. I think it will just take some careful treading as another poster said.

 

At the last event I was at, on Monday, there was a conversation about the Badman report and the possible government changes, etc. I said that I'm not entirely opposed to required registration as long as the gov't doesn't try to regulate everything that I do or dictate what I should teach. They looked at me as if I had 4 heads. Further into the conversation, there was a comment that the gov't is trying to introduce the regulations in response to allegations of abuse, implying that the act of homeschooling is an act of abuse. I responded that I think that the gov't does not equate homeschooling with abuse, but wants to make sure that no one claims to homeschool to cover abuse or claims to homeschool with no intention of educating their child. I relayed a conversation that I had had with a friend who is a youth services officer (someone who works with teens who have been in trouble with the law) in which she said that she had seen people who had pulled their kid out of school with no intention of educating them, just so they wouldn't be prosecuted for truancy. Another mom took offense, as if she would fall into that category, not that she was avoiding truancy, but that she had no intention of educating her kids. It was kind of weird. But, at that point in the conversation I just closed my mouth.

 

I think Stacy is right and I'll just need to be a bit of a politician and avoid any conversation that could cause division. Tina, you hit the nail on the head when you said that some radical unschoolers can be as difficult to talk to as those who staunchly oppose homeschooling. Thanks for all the responses.

[LibraryLover]

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Edited July 18, 2009 by LibraryLover

[melis108]

We are following closer to an unschooling approach this year and I am feeling like I don't want to go to our local coop because I'm tired of talking about curriculum. So, I get it! :) I wonder if you gave it a try and plan to discuss things other than education. If you keep your mind open, it might be interesting to hear how their kids are learning. And, I do believe the parents expect their kids to learn, just not in the same way that you expect your kids to learn. It could be a really great experience, but I completely understand your apprehension.

[Avila]

I am going out on a limb and wonder if the part of reason you feel uncomfortable might also be that you don't go regularly. If all the other moms are regular members of the group but you only go occasionally, it is easy to come in feeling like you have two heads, even if it is a group you would normally click with.

 

One of my closest friends is a radical unschooler, but it hasn't been an issue. We are both grown-ups who are trying to do what we think is best for our children. We talk about everything under the sun, and occasionally homeschooling, but we do it respectfully and without judgement, so it works for us. If you don't have anything in common with these ladies other than the fact that you homeschool, this is going to be a hard situation for you, since you don't really have homeschool to fall back on as a touchstone, KWIM? Not all unschoolers are strident, any more than all homeschoolers are conservatives, but the most strident ones will probably be the most vocal ones.

 

I guess I am thinking that there may be people there who are more like my friend, but since you aren't going regularly and they aren't so upfront, maybe you haven't really had the chance to get to know them. If this is your only group option AND you really want a group, I would suggest trying to participate there more regularly but in a more low-key setting, if there is one. Maybe going with them to the park dates instead of the meetings. Maybe seeking out the more quiet group members. Maybe even trying playdates with the ones that aren't so in-your-face and seeing if any of them might be more compatible in a one-on-one situation.

 

Hope you find your peace with this!

[Orthodox6]

I probably would not renew membership. The social links are as much for you as for your children. If this is not a social (and educational) environment with which you feel at ease, you may feel better seeking links through other channels, not necessarily homeschooling channels.

[nutmeg]

I think you just need to ask yourself some basic questions:

 

- What am I looking for in a support group?

- Does this group meet my needs?

 

If you need socialization and general chit-chat, perhaps you can make this group for you.

 

If you need support for your particular type of home education, then another group is in order.

 

Are you sure there are not others in your area looking for the same thing? Have you tried looking for more structured homeschoolers?

 

The first couple years of this journey I ran with the unschooling crowd. Now I'm here. :) It's all good.

[Greta]

My homeschooling group is comprised of mostly very relaxed homeschoolers, though we run the range from one radical unschooler all the way to, well, me. :D

 

And I have become very good friends with the RU-er! I think that's because even though she wouldn't chose to do what I'm doing, she respects me because I'm doing what I feel is best for my child/family. And even though I wouldn't do what she's doing, I respect her because she's doing what she feels is best for her child/family. So as long as there is that mutual respect and not judging, I think it can work out just fine.

 

But I will say, while I have learned that my group is a fantastic resource for friendships, I have also learned what *not* to expect from them. They are dear and wonderful friends, absolute treasures. But when it comes to anything academic, like putting together a class, I have learned that my expectations differ from theirs widely enough that, for the most part, we just don't attempt it any more. It was frustrating to me, and I don't want my frustration to ruin our friendships, so I have learned that we simply have to do academics at home, and then join our friends for park days, holiday parties, etc.

 

I guess that's my long-winded way of saying, I think it can work if you go into it with a foundation of respect (which you seem to have) and a realistic idea of what you can and can't get from the group.

 

Good luck!

[kpupg]

Not unschooling conflict, but I feel a similarity FWIW ...

 

... we live in an area where the dominant religious denomination makes up 75% of the total population. We don't share that religion. I am talking about one centralized denomination -- not just "general Christianity" or whatnot.

 

All the home schooling groups in this area are almost entirely ... you guessed it ... families in that dominant religious denomination. They call themselves "open to all," but they are so immersed in their own denominational culture that they don't even realize how overbearing and exclusive they are.

 

We tried a year in the most active group in this area. The socialization among the kids depended on the denominational codes and customs. Outsiders were tolerated but not accepted. It was not worth the emotional toll. Now we do activities on an individual basis -- e.g. community theater rather than home school theater -- and I get my support online.

 

If the differences are sufficiently large, you might be better off without :(

[Orthodox6]

n/t

[Osmosis Mom]

When I first started out hs'ing in Upstate NY the only non-Christian hs'ers were a couple of (radical) unschoolers. As persons, I really liked them and they were fun, but yes, a lot of the focus was to bash traditional learning approaches. Since then I have met many different kinds of unschoolers. Yes, in general our pedagogies are vastly different, but as long as I am not critized for my choice then I can fairly well get along with them.

 

As an interesting note, this past winter I joined a local Yahoo-group proposing unschoolers. I figured I'd be welcome, thinking the main focus was the secularity. Oh boy, I was right back to rural NY where anything that wasn't unschooling was totally wrong. I unsubscribed after I got bashed for my dd being at college.

 

This is just to try to say that sometimes it can work to hang out with a sub-group with very different philosophies, but with a lack of mutual respect and inclusion then it coule end up being a very confusing and de-energizing experience.

[mazakaal]

Thanks for all the responses. It's good to hear the perspectives and experiences of others. There's a big party at the hs group on Wednesday. I'll go to that with all these new thoughts in my head and see how it goes. Thanks again.

[Catherine]

I joined a groups that was pretty much all unschoolers, and after awhile, it just wasn't the kind of fun I had hoped for, partly because it seemed like there was little for us to talk about.

 

I know of two local families besides us that are secular and rigorous. Both have two daughters-I have three boys!

 

Sign me: still looking.

[jplain]

OTOH, the unschooling group I joined spent time discussing anything but curriculum because it didn't really have a place in their lifestyles. It's true, sometimes they would talk about not restricting things like bedtime or meals, but I found that most of the time we talked about our families, our homes, cleaning, fashion and shoes, and fun things we had done that others might want to try. And, we all would be involved with our children at the same time rather than sending them off to play and to not interrupt the adults.

Most of my friends are unschoolers, one is an RU'er, and this is exactly what happens at our gatherings. There's rarely any discussion of academic topics, which is fine by me. I do enough overthinking of academics right here. ;)

 

What became an absolute bore, to me, was that it then became a weekly contest of the moms to see who had the most birthing pain, the longest labor, who nursed the most, etc.

Oh my. That would drive me nuts.

 

To the OP, if you're looking for conversation about homeschooling, maybe you'll have to fulfill that need online for a while. Try hanging out at the library during school hours, and size up other families based on what you overhear. Surely you're not the only non-unschooler around, but perhaps some of them are a bit shy....

 

Good luck finding your kindred spirits!

[2cents]

I tend to avoid the unschooling homeschoolers. I have no issues with their philosophy. If it works for them then that is fine. It doesn't work for us. We are very structured. I have been in groups that have included all types of homeschoolers but have found them, for the most part, to be little more than playgroups and some of the parents are very reluctant to require their children sit still and stay on task. Academically speaking, these groups have had very little to offer us. The lack of discipline is distracting and all too often ends in chaos with a teacher who is frazzled. I stress manners but some parents seem to think it is an expression of 'creativity' when their children are unruly. I would not knowingly participate in a group that consisted of homeschoolers that were strong unschoolers or that consisted of parents that didn't share my same educational/behavioral goals. I think it would be asking for drama. Drama=non-productive waste of time.