potty training for an almost 4yr old

[pbajgrow]

Ok some of you might be judging me right now. I don't care. He has been pee potty trained for over a year. He does it without me even noticing. He is refusing to go #2. I am at my wits end with this guy. A little back round, he is VERY STUBBORN. For those who have read it, he is Dr Dobson's strong willed child. He is incredibly smart. He taught himself the alphabet lower and uppercase. He has been reading for a few months now. He is our little professor. He knows when he has to go. He goes up to his room and locks the door, does his job and comes out and asks to be changed. I have tried everything I can think of. I have tried rewards from a piece of candy to a whole candy bar. I have done positive and negative charts. We have told him if he goes 5 times he gets to pick out the toy of his dreams. After dealing with this for a year, I have gone 3 to 4 days of spanking everytime it happened. He could've cared less. He cried but he got over it and pooped again later or the next day, or sometimes he will hold it a day or two. When I ask him why, he says he doesn't like it. HELP! It's a good thing I homeschool. This reading 3 year old wouldn't be aloud in preschool. Oh btw, I had him in underwear, but he did it anyways. So, we went back to pull ups. jen

[Blossom'sGirl]

to make them go naked on the bottom. I put a longer shirt on them and tell them they can have their pants when they go in the potty. I also have given chocolate for it. Usually they will not do #2 on the floor.

 

Keep up the patience, you'll be over this hump soon. Just as I was typing this, my 3yo (today) came to me and said he needed to poo pee. Last week, when we started undies, I wouldn't have imagined it.

[KristineIN]

This is my advice that I put on my blog:

 

I frequent several homeschool message boards and every now and then, the subject of potty training comes up. Of course, everyone has their own opinion on how it should be done. With each of my children, it has been different. But Caleb was the worst of all to train, until I figured out the method that would work. He decided on his own that he was going to start peeing in the toilet. Having a bowel movement was a whole other issue though. He had turned 3 at the beginning of July and by September, he thought that he needed to be like his big brother Paul and use the toilet. He would go on his own without any coaxing or reminding. However, when he had to have a bowel movement, he would still use his pants. I would watch him like a hawk, but it didn't matter, as soon as I turned my back, he was off doing his own thing. We tried everything, bribery, spankings, rewards....nothing was working. My mom had even gotten a tub of cheap dollar tree toys thinking we could reward him if he went in the toilet. It didn't matter. This went on all winter. It wasn't until early April that I had had enough. The weather was warming up and the kids were spending more time outside. Finally I had an idea. I said "Caleb, you will not go outside and play until you start going poop in the toilet." His little heart was broken and I questioned myself, was I doing the right thing? But I stuck to my plan, just waiting to see what the outcome would be. All week, I would take Anna and Paul outside and let them play while Caleb had to remain inside. One week went by and on Saturday, Anna, Paul & Jason were outside playing and Caleb came to me and told me that he had to go to the bathroom. He finally had his first bowel movement in the toilet and was allowed to play outside. That did it. From then on, he went in the toilet. No reminding or coaxing. I really believe that if you have a challenging child that does not want to use the toilet, then you REALLY need to find something that they want more than anything and use that as a motivating tool. I didn't push Anna and Paul when it came to potty training, they were both past three, but once they decided it was time, they just did it, no accidents or me having to remind them. Caleb was just more stubborn and needed the extra motivation. Anyway, if you are trying to potty train for the first time, last time or in between time, this is just one more idea! Blessings, Kristine

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Ok some of you might be judging me right now. I don't care. He has been pee potty trained for over a year. He does it without me even noticing. He is refusing to go #2. I am at my wits end with this guy. A little back round, he is VERY STUBBORN. For those who have read it, he is Dr Dobson's strong willed child. He is incredibly smart. He taught himself the alphabet lower and uppercase. He has been reading for a few months now. He is our little professor. He knows when he has to go. He goes up to his room and locks the door, does his job and comes out and asks to be changed. I have tried everything I can think of. I have tried rewards from a piece of candy to a whole candy bar. I have done positive and negative charts. We have told him if he goes 5 times he gets to pick out the toy of his dreams. After dealing with this for a year, I have gone 3 to 4 days of spanking everytime it happened. He could've cared less. He cried but he got over it and pooped again later or the next day, or sometimes he will hold it a day or two. When I ask him why, he says he doesn't like it. HELP! It's a good thing I homeschool. This reading 3 year old wouldn't be aloud in preschool. Oh btw, I had him in underwear, but he did it anyways. So, we went back to pull ups. jen

 

Oh, hon. I'm sure no one is judging you -- least of all me, lol -- but you might want to reassign this from stubborn and strong-willed (and believe me, a weak-willed child is something you *don't* want to have going into adolescence and beyond!) to developmental or simply habit.

 

A couple of things that I would suggest. Take the time, for about a week or so, to just have him hang out with you most of the time. Find out when he goes poo, how he looks just before he goes poo, what noises he might make, where he wants to hide (if he does) while he poos, what foods or meals might precede it, all that. Learn him, study him. (And by all means, use the time to really enjoy him thoroughly. Make the time a time of great pleasure.)

 

Then if he needs to hide to poo, put the little potty in the hiding place. Take off his underwear and dress him in a long t-shirt -- it's less likely he'll poo on the floor, but if he does, at least you'll be there learning about him and can possibly catch him and put the potty under him right away.

 

Potty accidents or habits should be, IMO, pretty unemotional and non-punative events. Otherwise, if they're "trying" subconsciously to get attention, or have some addiction to the drama of it, you take that factor away. Now, as a mom of a late potty-trained daughter, I know for a fact that it's not an easy thing to take the emotion out of the situation. Especially when I'm hormonal or at the end of my rope. Or helping change clothes AGAIN. *grrr* I'm thankful every day of my life that this youngest dd was trained early and easily. Otherwise, I'd worry about what would be coming out of my mouth so much of the time. :( But I've had to manage my emotions in this regard, and believe me, if I (the Queen of Hair-trigger Flashes of Anger) can have a modicum of success, so can you.

 

Remember also that development for early high achievers is often asynchronous. So while he may have full intellectual understanding of what he needs to do, getting his brain to tell his colon and all the openings to cooperate at the same time plus getting over whatever issues he has with the toilet (VERY common, btw) might be more than he can handle at the tiny age of three. And I completely understand how hard it is to see how much a baby he still is when you're in the thick of rearing him. He's so smart and so far advanced in other areas. It takes a lot out of a mama brain to focus on the fact that he's only three and what that really means. I know I could not do it when my eldest was a reading, articulate, amazing three y/o. He could understand how to multiply. He told time to the minute. Why couldn't he just [fill in blank of desired skill here]?

 

I had a wise woman with high school and college-age kids pull me aside one day after church after a particularly harsh scolding of ds (then 3) for some minor offense. She lovingly told me something I tried never to forget -- "Pam, he's just a little, little boy. And he's a very GOOD little boy. He wants to please you so badly. Please be careful how you discipline him. You can break his heart, you know. He loves you so much. And once that broken heart heals, it's not as tender as it once was."

 

I would encourage you as a mom who's btdt to use great care with this issue. Watch him. Love him. Use all the tricks you can use, but if it comes down to it, if you're using pull ups anyway just put him in pullups. Unless you NEED to put him in preschool, don't use some artificial marker to determine if he "should" be completely toilet trained. He's an individual boy with other fish to fry. Above all, whatever you do, just hold on like crazy to the relationship. Cleaning up poop is inconvenient (and you can spread that inconvenience to him, IMO), but cleaning up a broken relationship is ever so much harder.

[Sue G in PA]

We've all btdt! Some kids just need "extra" time. Maybe you could just lay off him for a while? Believe me, I know that is difficult when you just want to be out of DIAPERS! My almost 3 yo (okay, that's young, I know!) used to go potty (pee) and then all of a sudden stopped. She knows when she has to go, but prefers the diaper. Why? Not sure. If rewards aren't working, he probably just needs more time. AND, as previous posters have said...punitive measures typically work against you. It makes them more stubborn. See, their bodily functions are one of the only things they can control at that age. Most everything else in their little world is controlled for them...from food to clothing to when they play, when they watch tv, when they go to bed, etc. Some kids just need that ONE element of control. If you make it a "do it if YOU want", perhaps he'll decide on his own that he WANTS to go potty? I don't know it'll work. Hang in there...potty training is FRUSTRATING!

[Laura Corin]

 

Remember also that development for early high achievers is often asynchronous. So while he may have full intellectual understanding of what he needs to do, getting his brain to tell his colon and all the openings to cooperate at the same time plus getting over whatever issues he has with the toilet (VERY common, btw) might be more than he can handle at the tiny age of three.

 

Calvin was intellectually advanced, but his physical development did not match. We started potty training him when he was 2 1/4, but by the time he was five he was still having occasional day-time potty accidents (pee and poo) and wasn't dry at night until he was about six. For all his brains, he just couldn't get it all together.... we just had to wait.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[Kari C in SC]

No advice here. Just wanted to tell you that I am not judging you because my little guy is 3 years old and 5 months. He is smarter. Maybe it isn't right to say, but he is smarter than my other two kids. They potty trained fairly easy. This last child knows what he is supposed to do. He just doesn't want to do it. I did have the most success with the peeing part when he went bottomless in December. Since then we have moved for Florida to South Carolina. It was too cool to not have pants on AND my mom is living with us till she closes on her house. I didn't want him possibly having accidents on her furniture, etc. So... grandma is moving at the beginning of April and it will be warm - we will be going back to no bottoms and see if that does the trick. Good luck!

[KristineIN]

Wow, the thought of going bottomless just creeps me out. I could not imagine having to clean up the mess. Seriously, I think find something that motivates him and take it away, it is hard, I had a hard time, wondering if I was doing the right thing, but a week later, he was trained completely and had no more accidents.

 

Good luck.

Kristine

[pbajgrow]

I have actually thought about going bottomless. He also can't stand messes. He screams if a pea sized drop of yogart drops on the table. I can't tell you how many times I have ran to him with the whole role of paper towels only to find a finger dab worth of mess! This could work for him. Also thanks for the all the other posts. I do have to remember that he is advanced in so many things, and it is ok to be at a different level in others. Thanks moms! Jen

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Wow, the thought of going bottomless just creeps me out. I could not imagine having to clean up the mess. Seriously, I think find something that motivates him and take it away, it is hard, I had a hard time, wondering if I was doing the right thing, but a week later, he was trained completely and had no more accidents.

 

Good luck.

Kristine

 

The thing is, with some kids there *is* no cleaning up the mess when they go bottomless. None. Nada. They simply will not go on the floor. (And that's really the only point of doing it that way. Otherwise -- UGH!!) Easier still, of course, is bottomless outdoors in the backyard with a long shirt all day when it's warm. At two years four months, my youngest dd peed on the floor exactly once and was simply horrified by it. After that, straight in the potty. We didn't even do an intermediary of pull ups except at night, and only because I was paranoid. She didn't even use them at all.

 

Now dd #2 was a different story. But I frankly, looking back, don't think she was developmentally nor neurologically ready to train. Poor little kiddo. Somehow, she's not terribly scarred by her mom's early frustration. :o

[Kay in Cal]

We're big believers in the "bottomless" method here too... though with my 2nd ds (the stubborn 3yo), it took a month of cleanings up. (Is that encouragement, or not?) Some of you may remember my frantic posts---he was pooping everywhere, he'd sneak off and hide. We think he just prefered the standing position, and didn't want to have to sit. I'd chase him with the potty... but after about 4 weeks, he finally went on the potty once, and has never had an accident since.

 

But he would have happily used pull ups until his dying day. :-)

[Stacey in MA]

On the week he was turning 4, I simply refused to do anything fun with him until he straightened it out and started pooping on the potty every day. He could carry on a long discussion with me, but not go poop like a big kid - come on! Of course, I was quite sure at this time that he was ready....I had assessed this through the course of many months before. He knew when he had to go, he would go hide, he was able to control it in his own way. He was just stubborn, and didn't want to transition from what was familiar (doing it the way he always had) to pass control to doing it MY way (going in the potty).

 

FWIW, this DS is ALWAYS like this, in other "changes" and "transitions". He is the child who is very smart, but won't take lots of risks, and needs to constantly be "pushed off the ledge" when it comes to making any kind of leaps - physical challenges, mental, emotional, etc. He is a complete "play it safe and easy" kind of kid, and will always need an extra proverbial "shove".

 

I agree with Kristine in the above posts - you need to get serious, real serious, one time, remove a privelege and stand by that until he does as he's supposed to (as long he is truely able - no physical or mental challenges, but just will that's holding him back).

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

On the week he was turning 4, I simply refused to do anything fun with him until he straightened it out and started pooping on the potty every day. He could carry on a long discussion with me, but not go poop like a big kid - come on! Of course, I was quite sure at this time that he was ready....I had assessed this through the course of many months before. He knew when he had to go, he would go hide, he was able to control it in his own way. He was just stubborn, and didn't want to transition from what was familiar (doing it the way he always had) to pass control to doing it MY way (going in the potty).

 

FWIW, this DS is ALWAYS like this, in other "changes" and "transitions". He is the child who is very smart, but won't take lots of risks, and needs to constantly be "pushed off the ledge" when it comes to making any kind of leaps - physical challenges, mental, emotional, etc. He is a complete "play it safe and easy" kind of kid, and will always need an extra proverbial "shove".

 

I agree with Kristine in the above posts - you need to get serious, real serious, one time, remove a privelege and stand by that until he does as he's supposed to (as long he is truely able - no physical or mental challenges, but just will that's holding him back).

 

For ds, we put a potty in his hiding place. :)

[Angela in TN]

Wow, the thought of going bottomless just creeps me out. I could not imagine having to clean up the mess. Seriously, I think find something that motivates him and take it away, it is hard, I had a hard time, wondering if I was doing the right thing, but a week later, he was trained completely and had no more accidents.

 

Good luck.

Kristine

 

We tried bottomless with our #2 son and guess what? He went on the floor!!:eek: I started making him wash out his soiled and undies and he liked it, he said "Thanks mommy for giving me my new job!" Ewwww He was 4 1/2. He said 5 year olds don't poop in their pants and he turned 5 a month ago and has only had a few accidents. It's been frustrating. We did take away things that were important to him and that didn't work long term, he started doing it when he made up his mind to do it. But I would try as Kristine suggests because different things work for different kids. Not all kids are grossed out by their poo and pee. {{hugs}}

[beansprouts]

BTDT with my dd. My best advice is to stop trying - especially since it has become a power struggle. You have made this about you and now you need to step out of the picture and let him decide to use the potty for himself. My dd was 4 years old, and I had pushed so hard that we were both miserable. I tried pretty much every trick mentioned here, but nothing worked. I put her back in diapers - not to humiliate her, but as my way of leaving her alone. Just a few months later she decided for herself that she was ready to use the potty. She was 4 1/2 :o

 

After this experience I didn't even try to "train" ds. My theory was he knew the potty was there and what it was for. When he was ready he would use it. He decided he was ready right after his 3rd birthday.

 

I, personally, will never "potty train", again.

 

They will be out of diapers by college, I promise ;)

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

BTDT with my dd. My best advice is to stop trying - especially since it has become a power struggle. You have made this about you and now you need to step out of the picture and let him decide to use the potty for himself. My dd was 4 years old, and I had pushed so hard that we were both miserable. I tried pretty much every trick mentioned here, but nothing worked. I put her back in diapers - not to humiliate her, but as my way of leaving her alone. Just a few months later she decided for herself that she was ready to use the potty. She was 4 1/2 :o

 

After this experience I didn't even try to "train" ds. My theory was he knew the potty was there and what it was for. When he was ready he would use it. He decided he was ready right after his 3rd birthday.

 

I, personally, will never "potty train", again.

 

They will be out of diapers by college, I promise ;)

 

Colleen does this, too.

[Jenstet]

I agree with Beansprouts. My son was 4ish when he finally started using the potty. When he decided to it just happened no muss no fuss. Think of it like reading, when they are ready something will just click.

 

I even waited for him to be "ready" to sleep in his big boy bed. He slept in a crib until he was 4 1/2. He just let me know and it was no big deal.

 

No one is judging except maybe your MIL. (nevermind, my reality not yours)

[Alice]

oops, I messed up the quote, reposted later

[beansprouts]

No one is judging except maybe your MIL. (nevermind, my reality not yours)

 

You know my MIL??? What did she tell you?? It isn't true, Honest - okay maybe it is, but not the way she says, well maybe it's all true, but you know some people just can't be pleased no matter what you do... :D

[Alice]

BTDT with my dd. My best advice is to stop trying - especially since it has become a power struggle. You have made this about you and now you need to step out of the picture and let him decide to use the potty for himself. My dd was 4 years old, and I had pushed so hard that we were both miserable. I tried pretty much every trick mentioned here, but nothing worked. I put her back in diapers - not to humiliate her, but as my way of leaving her alone. Just a few months later she decided for herself that she was ready to use the potty. She was 4 1/2 :o

 

;)

 

This worked for us too.

[Mandamom]

BTDT with my dd. My best advice is to stop trying - especially since it has become a power struggle. You have made this about you and now you need to step out of the picture and let him decide to use the potty for himself. My dd was 4 years old, and I had pushed so hard that we were both miserable. I tried pretty much every trick mentioned here, but nothing worked. I put her back in diapers - not to humiliate her, but as my way of leaving her alone. Just a few months later she decided for herself that she was ready to use the potty. She was 4 1/2 :o

 

This worked for us too.

>>>>

 

Mine refused to train and she was 5.5 and she had still never even peed in the potty. Would you have waited then? I guess my question is do you have a limit. Mine apparently was 5.5. Her younger sister partially trained at 2 years old and except for some constipation issues she was nothing like her older sister.

 

Naked time didn't work for older dd because she could dress herself at 13 months. She put her own diaper on before 18 months.

 

We chose not to wait any longer and kind of forced the issue (BTW, I tend toward attachment parenting so it took a lot for me to do it) and she still has NEVER had an accident. I don't regret forcing it but I do wonder what would have happened if we had waited longer. BTW, with her still in diapers at that point I would have had 3 in diapers and I just wasn't going there.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

This article recently appeared in our local paper.

 

The article addresses the problem of older trained children withholding bowel movements. He gives advice in the article about how to address the problem. You can read it here:

 

http://thepottybootcamp.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-to-try-when-your-toddler-won-poop.html

 

 

Disclaimer: I've not had this problem, so I'm not endorsing the methods. I'm just posting in the interest of passing along information, in a FYI kind of way. :o I do like John Rosemond's advice, most of the time. :)

[RoughCollie]

Every single one of my kids was potty-trained at age 4. I tried everything -- rewards, m & m's, encouragement, charts with stickers. Nothing worked because the kids didn't want to be potty trained.

 

So one day I told them that they could wear pull-ups for the rest of their lives if they wanted to, but I was out of the changing business. They had to change themselves.

 

It took each of them one time of changing their own pull-ups to decide that using the toilet was preferable.

[pbajgrow]

I just wanted to say THANK YOU! to all the moms who responded to my request for help with potty training my 4 yr old boy! I took the advice and put him in a long T-Shirt and he did it! It took some cohersing, but he is officially potty trained, exactly one week before his birthday! Thank you for not judging and giving me the sound advice. I now have 3 kids done and one more to go! Yeah!!!! I see the light! Jen:lol:

[beansprouts]

Congratulations, my dear :001_smile:

 

I also have one more in diapers, and he won't be training anytime soon.

 

I have REALLY got to stop feeding him. :ack2:

[daisychics]

We read this to ds. EVERYONE POOPS. He still reads this, now to little sister. :D

 

http://www.amazon.com/Everyone-Poops-My-Body-Science/dp/0916291456/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208490130&sr=1-1

[KellyBelly]

I just potty trained my 3rd son, and he's been the hardest of the 3. After 2 weeks I was so frustrated with his pooping in underwear (or pull ups) that I put the potty chair away quietly. At that point, he was peeing in it regularly, so when it came time that he needed to pee, he went looking for the potty chair and came to me very upset. "Mommy! Where my potty? Where my potty?" Now, I know this sounds mean, but you have to understand I was at my wits end. I told him, "If you want to poop in your underwear like a baby, you don't get a potty. Only big boys have a potty. You've been pooping in your underwear so that means you are not a big boy. You are a baby and don't get a potty anymore."

 

Well, he was very upset about having to pee in his pull-up. A short time later, the family was getting ready to go somewhere, and my 3 yo was in the garage (getting into the van), Well, he saw an old, broken potty seat that belonged to my older son. It was clean, it just had a broken piece in back so I decided against using it. Well, he pulled his own pants down (which was a shocker b/c I was still having to remind and help with that) and did it all on his own before I even got outside to buckle him in the van. I knew then that it was HIS choice and that from that point on, we'd turned a corner in potty training. He's had a few little wet accidents, but I consider him fully potty trained now.

 

I don't normally like to use mean tactics like insulting (calling him a baby) but at a certain point your sanity comes first. Or, as my FIL says, "Let him pay for his own Psychiatrist... he's not going to make ME pay forone."

[Alenee]

Okay, after writing this I realized the OP has had success but I'll leave it here anyway for others who might be lurking. Maybe it'll be of some encouragement.

 

All three of my girls were over three when they trained. Currently, we are on day 5 of no diaper at night with my 3 yo (4 in July).

 

IMO, the best advice here is take a break, at least for a week, for you, not for him. :) Each one of mine was different. #1 had a potty chart that did the trick. #2 refused to have her pull-up changed one day. Dh got so fed up, he ran upstairs and came back with panties and told her she'd never see a pull-up again. It worked. #3 has taken the longest. She would use the excuse, "the pee pee just won't come out," or get a diaper for nap time and IMMEDIATELY go poop. After more accidents with her than the other two combined, I thought she was hopeless. But like I said, we're now on day 5 of no night time diaper and she's going #1 and #2 everyday w/o issue.

 

Here's a big (((((((((hug))))))))))) from another mom who has BTDT and rest easy. As my mil said, "It's not like he'll be wearing a diaper in high school!":D

[ELaurie]

"Pam, he's just a little, little boy. And he's a very GOOD little boy. He wants to please you so badly. Please be careful how you discipline him. You can break his heart, you know. He loves you so much. And once that broken heart heals, it's not as tender as it once was."

 

Above all, whatever you do, just hold on like crazy to the relationship. Cleaning up poop is inconvenient (and you can spread that inconvenience to him, IMO), but cleaning up a broken relationship is ever so much harder.

 

And to the OP - our precocious 5 yo ds was like this too - when I finally stopped struggling with him about it, and let him decide when he was ready, he started using the potty!

 

ymmv, but I found that the more I made a big deal out of this issue, the more he resisted. When I relaxed about it, he decided to use the potty on his own within fairly short order. One day I realized it had just ceased to be an issue; in the meantime, our relationship improved when I simply expressed confidence that he would decide when he was ready. His desire to be a "big boy" helped him overcome his internal resistance to doing something that was new and unfamiliar. And when he did start using the potty, he felt proud of himself because it was his accomplishment (not mine LOL).

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I just wanted to say THANK YOU! to all the moms who responded to my request for help with potty training my 4 yr old boy! I took the advice and put him in a long T-Shirt and he did it! It took some cohersing, but he is officially potty trained, exactly one week before his birthday! Thank you for not judging and giving me the sound advice. I now have 3 kids done and one more to go! Yeah!!!! I see the light! Jen:lol:

 

That's really great!! Congrats to you and to him.

[Kay in Cal]

In the tradition of our family....

 

this is me doing the potty dance ----- > :willy_nilly:

 

Congratulations!