I'm not sure how else to handle this one...

[Ibbygirl]

I bought my 11 y.o. daughter the Indiana Jones book series earlier this year to support my son's school book fair. Well, long story short, she never knew about Nazi's before reading the books and she became completely fixated on them. (She's got OCD) Well, she started googling them and reading articles on Wikipedia and asking me a million questions about Nazis. I've explained to her who they were and what they believed and that they were defeated in WWII. I thought that would be the end of it and then just the other day we were talking about Germany and she says in disgust, "Ug! I HATE Germans!" Well needless to say I was shocked and upset so I asked her why she would say such a thing and she says she hates Germans because of the Nazis. :eek:

 

I explained to that only some of the Germans were Nazis and that a lot of Germans did not agree with their philosophies, but were subject to the Nazis because they were in power. I told her that to hate a entire group of people just because they are German is prejudice and it is wrong. I told her that prejudice is extremely dangerous because you no longer see people as people, but rather as the thing that they are. I told her that Hitler himself was prejudiced against the Jews and look at the horrors that that prejudice caused. She said she knew that I was right, but that she still hates Germans! YIKES!! :eek:

 

Have any of you had to deal with this before? How did you handle it? I"m really at a loss here...

 

Thanks to all who reply.

[Ravin]

You might get her some books about Germans during WWII that don't paste them in a uniformly negative light. Stories about Germans who helped Jews during the Holocaust, for example, or maybe something like Boy In The Striped Pajamas. Also some nonfiction about postwar rebuilding of Germany. In other words, some resources that make it very clear that German does not equal Nazi.

 

For that matter, information about other fascist and totalitarian regimes in history might help?

[Ibbygirl]

You might get her some books about Germans during WWII that don't paste them in a uniformly negative light. Stories about Germans who helped Jews during the Holocaust, for example, or maybe something like Boy In The Striped Pajamas. Also some nonfiction about postwar rebuilding of Germany. In other words, some resources that make it very clear that German does not equal Nazi.

 

For that matter, information about other fascist and totalitarian regimes in history might help?

 

Thank you for your reply. Can you suggest any book titles??

[Lymeade Mom]

I lived in Germany, and I can tell you most of them are so upset and ashamed of their past, that if she really understood that, she would not hate them, but feel sorry for them. I met one man who was a former soldier who couldn't believe there was a God b/c God didn't stop him from doing the bad things he did (he was crying on the streets and talking to foreigners with poor language skills about this!) He was likely a boy who was drilled to think a certain way by the forced public schools. My language teacher would apologize to students if they were from a town the Nazis destroyed (50 years ago and he was in his 30's!) They don't believe in patriotism or really like groups like boys scouts b/c of fear or repeating the past. They don't believe in war and thus were very against Pres Bush (marched in the streets when he came to the country.

 

If this line of thought helps any, you might read up on the sister of the author (sorry, the name escapes me!) of The Hiding Place. (There's a movie too). She was in the prison camp and would look at the guards and say poor people! She knew the shame they would one day feel. She died, but her sister (the author) ended up ministering to the Germans.

 

Germans were people who were tricked into letting the Nazis have power b/c of much propaganda and lies. Once the Nazi leaders had power, to oppose them could mean death. Though there were several plots to kill Hitler by Germans! I know Dietrich Bonnhoeffer (sp?) opposed Hitler.

[Cindyg]

Can she understand the concept of hating the sin but not the sinner? Hating the Nazi belief that these people had, but not hating the people themselves? Certainly they were misled, misinformed, and misused.

 

Nazism was the only truth they were taught all their lives. In a way, they were victims too.

 

The history of humanity is a very sad study.

[Laura Corin]

The Nazis rose to power in the 1930s, seventy years ago. At that time, for example, black people in the US were deprived of many rights and were often mistreated (you can go into as much detail as is comfortable for you) and there were many white Americans who thought that this bad treatment was entirely appropriate.

 

Fast forward to today: I'm sure she doesn't hate present-day white Americans for the persecution of African-Americans carried out by previous generations, not would it occur to her to hate all Americans for those deeds, when they include the descendants of those persecuted black people.

 

Please note, I am not equating the seriousness of the two sets of historical events, just trying to introduce a sense of the changes wrought by time. And, of course, this tactic may not be appropriate if you think it might take her off on another damaging tangent.

 

Laura

[SonshineLearner]

If this line of thought helps any, you might read up on the sister of the author (sorry, the name escapes me!) of The Hiding Place. (There's a movie too). She was in the prison camp and would look at the guards and say poor people! She knew the shame they would one day feel. She died, but her sister (the author) ended up ministering to the Germans.

Once the Nazi leaders had power, to oppose them could mean death. Though there were several plots to kill Hitler by Germans! I know Dietrich Bonnhoeffer (sp?) opposed Hitler.

 

Corrie Ten Boom. There is her book The Hiding Place but also books about her. Her sister was Betsy, I believe.

 

There are many books that are great about this time, when many fought for babies, children, and adults who could not fight for themselves. (sometimes with violence and sometimes with prayer and skill)

 

There's also the info about Hitler being quite possibly "part Jewish" and I think that would make his history more interesting, if true.

 

I have read a few books that are good for adults, but for children, The Hiding Place is as graphic as I would recommend.

 

What I loved about it is how they trusted in God and talked about his mercy. Can you imagine????? Like the story when they really needed...I think it was vitamin E and they continued to have enough...until the next "smuggled" bottle arrived...and that very day...there was no vitamin(E) left!

 

Or, the time when Corrie Ten Boom was telling her story at a church and how God forgives sinners. There was the man who came up and told him how much he appreciated her talk. He was one of the prison guards. He extended his hand (I think before Corrie Ten Boom) and she prayed/willed her hand up. Every bone in her body wanted to resist, and yet she was in control of her will to do what she considered right.

 

The book I have about her is by Heroes of the Faith, although there are many others.

 

Carrie:-)

[Ibbygirl]

I lived in Germany, and I can tell you most of them are so upset and ashamed of their past, that if she really understood that, she would not hate them, but feel sorry for them. I met one man who was a former soldier who couldn't believe there was a God b/c God didn't stop him from doing the bad things he did (he was crying on the streets and talking to foreigners with poor language skills about this!) He was likely a boy who was drilled to think a certain way by the forced public schools. My language teacher would apologize to students if they were from a town the Nazis destroyed (50 years ago and he was in his 30's!) They don't believe in patriotism or really like groups like boys scouts b/c of fear or repeating the past. They don't believe in war and thus were very against Pres Bush (marched in the streets when he came to the country.

 

If this line of thought helps any, you might read up on the sister of the author (sorry, the name escapes me!) of The Hiding Place. (There's a movie too). She was in the prison camp and would look at the guards and say poor people! She knew the shame they would one day feel. She died, but her sister (the author) ended up ministering to the Germans.

 

Germans were people who were tricked into letting the Nazis have power b/c of much propaganda and lies. Once the Nazi leaders had power, to oppose them could mean death. Though there were several plots to kill Hitler by Germans! I know Dietrich Bonnhoeffer (sp?) opposed Hitler.

 

 

Oh thank you so much for your beautiful words. I have told her the same thing. My best friend's family was torn apart by the Berlin wall. She was on the East side with many of her relatives on the other. She and her family actually defected in Canada and then came to the US. I actually met her in school when she had just come to this country. There was a boy in one of my classes who was Jewish and he knew she was my friend and everytime he saw me he would ask me how "my friend the Nazi" was doing. I used to tell him off and that she wasn't even alive then (I wasn't a Christian yet then) but I remember the shame she felt when people would say things like that to her. I've told my daughter this, but I guess she's just too fixated right now and not seeing anything else. I will have her read your post though. I think it will help if she hears it from someone else. :) Thank you. :)

[Ibbygirl]

Can she understand the concept of hating the sin but not the sinner? Hating the Nazi belief that these people had, but not hating the people themselves? Certainly they were misled, misinformed, and misused.

 

Nazism was the only truth they were taught all their lives. In a way, they were victims too.

 

The history of humanity is a very sad study.

 

 

Yes I agree. Very sad. :(

[Ibbygirl]

The Nazis rose to power in the 1930s, seventy years ago. At that time, for example, black people in the US were deprived of many rights and were often mistreated (you can go into as much detail as is comfortable for you) and there were many white Americans who thought that this bad treatment was entirely appropriate.

 

Fast forward to today: I'm sure she doesn't hate present-day white Americans for the persecution of African-Americans carried out by previous generations, not would it occur to her to hate all Americans for those deeds, when they include the descendants of those persecuted black people.

 

Please note, I am not equating the seriousness of the two sets of historical events, just trying to introduce a sense of the changes wrought by time. And, of course, this tactic may not be appropriate if you think it might take her off on another damaging tangent.

 

Laura

 

 

Thank you, Laura, for your reply. I actually have tried to take that tack with her as well. Being that we are in Florida and we had Jim Crow laws here I told her about segregation and Rosa Parks etc. I told her about how her own grandmother (my mother) lived in segregated communities when she was growing up. I even told her how ridiculous it all was that Ray Charles (who my dd likes a lot btw) was in a segregated school for the blind in St. Augustine. Segregating kids who cannot even see color!! How ridiculous is that. My husband is mixed black, white and Indian and I told my daughter that had she been alive during the time that she would have been discriminated against because of the "one drop" rule and that she would be considered black. Her response, was "That's why I like black people better than white people" :rolleyes:

 

I'm sure that this is just a stage that she is going through (at least I HOPE so). I know that with her Autism, OCD and ADHD that she has trouble processing things and she sees things in a very black and white way (no pun intended), but this line of thinking REALLY troubles me. I want to nip it in the bud if I can, but I just feel at a loss as to how to make her understand. sigh.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Ibbygirl

[Ibbygirl]

Corrie Ten Boom. There is her book The Hiding Place but also books about her. Her sister was Betsy, I believe.

 

There are many books that are great about this time, when many fought for babies, children, and adults who could not fight for themselves. (sometimes with violence and sometimes with prayer and skill)

 

There's also the info about Hitler being quite possibly "part Jewish" and I think that would make his history more interesting, if true.

 

I have read a few books that are good for adults, but for children, The Hiding Place is as graphic as I would recommend.

 

What I loved about it is how they trusted in God and talked about his mercy. Can you imagine????? Like the story when they really needed...I think it was vitamin E and they continued to have enough...until the next "smuggled" bottle arrived...and that very day...there was no vitamin(E) left!

 

Or, the time when Corrie Ten Boom was telling her story at a church and how God forgives sinners. There was the man who came up and told him how much he appreciated her talk. He was one of the prison guards. He extended his hand (I think before Corrie Ten Boom) and she prayed/willed her hand up. Every bone in her body wanted to resist, and yet she was in control of her will to do what she considered right.

 

The book I have about her is by Heroes of the Faith, although there are many others.

 

Carrie:-)

 

Oh thank you so much, Carrie, for your reply. Does this book The Hiding Place show ordinary Germans trying to help the Jews?

[Laura Corin]

I know that with her Autism, OCD and ADHD that she has trouble processing things and she sees things in a very black and white way (no pun intended), but this line of thinking REALLY troubles me. I want to nip it in the bud if I can, but I just feel at a loss as to how to make her understand. sigh.

 

It sounds as if you might need to create a new category for her, rather than giving a more nuanced explanation. Could you suggest that she hates 'German people back then'? If you carry on using that phrase (or whatever is comfortable to you), might that help her make a more manageable box to put her feelings in? I don't have a child with autism, so this may be far from the mark....

 

Laura

[Ibbygirl]

It sounds as if you might need to create a new category for her, rather than giving a more nuanced explanation. Could you suggest that she hates 'German people back then'? If you carry on using that phrase (or whatever is comfortable to you), might that help her make a more manageable box to put her feelings in? I don't have a child with autism, so this may be far from the mark....

 

Laura

 

 

That is an excellent suggestion, Laura. Thank you so much. I wonder if that just might help things. I will try that for sure. :)

[Laura Corin]

That is an excellent suggestion, Laura. Thank you so much. I wonder if that just might help things. I will try that for sure. :)

 

I hope it works out.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[Ibbygirl]

I hope it works out.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

Thanks. :) I think I will just phrase it in a way to convey the message to "love the sinner, hate the sin" you know? So she doesn't get the idea that it is okay to hate any group of people. :)

[Stacy in NJ]

Can you discuss with her the idea that all individuals have the right to be judged first as individuals, and not as representatives of any type of "group"? That we should be judged upon the content of our own character.

 

Being German or Black or rich or poor, or any other racial, religous, ethnic or class identity doesn't make anyone person good or bad, but rather what they do defines who they are?

 

HTH, Stacy

[SonshineLearner]

Oh thank you so much, Carrie, for your reply. Does this book The Hiding Place show ordinary Germans trying to help the Jews?

Yes, The Ten Boom family was ordinary. The Dad was a watchmaker, I believe...Well..he worked with watches.

The dad made a "faux" wall to hide some Jews. They helped...and spent time in concentration camps.

I also saw on this board...that some of the countries did some resistance that was without weapons...and successful. Can't remember what the thread was called...

This is actually a whole discussion about laws, the difference between legal and ethical...and the responsibility to protect individuals because of their rights as humans and not just because of the laws in place to protect them.

 

Huge Discussion. And, what you think about laws...ethics...and humans...determines a huge part of how you view the world. What might be sad to study about history....molds how you think about the present.

 

For an incredible read...try this book The Sunflower by Simon Wiesenthal. It's incredible because it poses this question. "You are a prisoner in a concentration camp. A dying Nazi asks for your forgiveness. What would you do??" (you..forgiving on behalf of all Jews...)

 

It was an incredible read. (For adults/Highschoolers)

Carrie

[Ibbygirl]

Yes, The Ten Boom family was ordinary. The Dad was a watchmaker, I believe...Well..he worked with watches.

The dad made a "faux" wall to hide some Jews. They helped...and spent time in concentration camps.

I also saw on this board...that some of the countries did some resistance that was without weapons...and successful. Can't remember what the thread was called...

This is actually a whole discussion about laws, the difference between legal and ethical...and the responsibility to protect individuals because of their rights as humans and not just because of the laws in place to protect them.

 

Huge Discussion. And, what you think about laws...ethics...and humans...determines a huge part of how you view the world. What might be sad to study about history....molds how you think about the present.

 

For an incredible read...try this book The Sunflower by Simon Wiesenthal. It's incredible because it poses this question. "You are a prisoner in a concentration camp. A dying Nazi asks for your forgiveness. What would you do??" (you..forgiving on behalf of all Jews...)

 

It was an incredible read. (For adults/Highschoolers)

Carrie

 

 

Oh that sounds great!! Thank so much for the suggestion. So do you think the Sunflower's content would be too mature for her? She will be 12 on Wednesday.

 

 

 

Can you discuss with her the idea that all individuals have the right to be judged first as individuals, and not as representatives of any type of "group"? That we should be judged upon the content of our own character.

 

Being German or Black or rich or poor, or any other racial, religous, ethnic or class identity doesn't make anyone person good or bad, but rather what they do defines who they are?

 

HTH, Stacy

 

 

Thank you, Stacy for your reply. :) I have tried to take this tack with her and explain to her the dangers of prejudice and that you have to take people on an individual basis. The problems is that because of her Asperger's and OCD she hyperfixates on things and cannot let them go. At this point in time it's the Nazis. :rolleyes:

 

That is why I posted up the question here, because everything I have been trying just isn't working. I talked to her again today and shared with her the things that people have been posting here. I asked her, "Do you see how ordinary German people were just as much a victim of Hitler as the Jews were?" She answered, "uh-huh" and then a few hours later today she starts again about how she hates Germans! UG! :rolleyes: I"m praying for this issue. I am praying that God will work on her heart and get her off of this current fixation. I will read some books with her that have been suggested here as well and hopefully the emotional investment in the characters of the story will be enough to change her mind.

[ElizabethB]

Even some adults have trouble with things like this from time to time!

 

When I was in the Air Force, I had a friend who said he "hated all Academy Graduates." I told him jokingly I was done talking to him them. He said he didn't mean me, he liked me. I then listed off all the Academy Graduates we worked with--3 or 4 other people who were nice people. He said that they were nice, too, and that he liked them, but that he still "hated Academy Graduates."

 

He was reasonable about most things, he just had a fixation about this, and he didn't even have any of the excuses your daughter does!

[home2333]

Eleven is so young. As she gets older, you can show her what a complicated issue this is. Besides The Hiding Place, there are several movies about Dietrich Bonhoeffer's life and a movie about Sophie Scholl called The Final Days. All show so vividly the German people's resistance to the Nazis and the cost of that resistance. They may be too difficult for her to watch now, but they all give the viewer great sympathy for the German people.

[Ibbygirl]

Eleven is so young. As she gets older, you can show her what a complicated issue this is. Besides The Hiding Place, there are several movies about Dietrich Bonhoeffer's life and a movie about Sophie Scholl called The Final Days. All show so vividly the German people's resistance to the Nazis and the cost of that resistance. They may be too difficult for her to watch now, but they all give the viewer great sympathy for the German people.

 

 

Thank you for the suggestions. Yes, she is young, I think that is part of the problem. She sees things very black and white. To her something is either right or wrong and she doesn't yet see how intricately complex some issues can be. I've told her that, but she still just adamantly believes what she believes. I'm going to do some research online with Wikipedia and others to see if I can find a general bio about these people you mentioned. Maybe I can start with that and save the more difficult matter for when she is older.

[Matryoshka]

I just finished reading a book that made me think back to this post - it's a young adult book called The Book Thief. I'm not sure if your dd would be old enough for it - my older two are just about a year younger, and I don't know that I'd give it to them quite yet, but it really is a good book and told from the point of view of a young girl (who grows from about 8 to 14 during the book) during WWII in Germany. You might want to pre-read it and see what you think, or read the reviews on Amazon (which summarize it better than I can here). I don't know how you could see things in black and white after reading that book -there's some great material for discussion in there. In some ways it might make a better readaloud for this age, then you could discuss things as they come up.

[Ibbygirl]

I just finished reading a book that made me think back to this post - it's a young adult book called The Book Thief. I'm not sure if your dd would be old enough for it - my older two are just about a year younger, and I don't know that I'd give it to them quite yet, but it really is a good book and told from the point of view of a young girl (who grows from about 8 to 14 during the book) during WWII in Germany. You might want to pre-read it and see what you think, or read the reviews on Amazon (which summarize it better than I can here). I don't know how you could see things in black and white after reading that book -there's some great material for discussion in there. In some ways it might make a better readaloud for this age, then you could discuss things as they come up.

 

 

Oh thank you so much for the recommendation!! Is this the one you are talking about??

 

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Thief-Markus-Zusak/dp/0375842209/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245301759&sr=1-1

[Matryoshka]

Oh thank you so much for the recommendation!! Is this the one you are talking about??

 

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Thief-Markus-Zusak/dp/0375842209/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245301759&sr=1-1

 

Yep, that's the one. :001_smile:

[ChristineMM]

I agree with the idea of letting her see the empathy that some Germans had for the victims.

 

I would suggest that you do a READ ALOUD of The Book Thief. I loved the book as an adult and found it very emotional. I think it would be best to do a read aloud so you can stop and discuss things along the way.

 

Since she is that far into it, has she read Diary of Anne Frank?

 

Also see the documentary Paper Clips about American kids in a southern state who didn't know about the Holocaust then a teacher taught them about it and they made a museum with one paper clip for every life taken. However that does mention that also homosexuals were killed, don't know if she has gone down that road of discovery yet about the Holocaust.

 

THe Holocaust also affected disabled people. A wonderful book told in prose is T4. That explores a deaf girl hiding out to keep from being killed by Nazi's.

 

I want to underscore at this point especially due to her obsession as you called it, that you join in on her studies and do read aloud's and have discussions. Also I'd consider password protecting the Internet and having her back off from reading more on the Internet. Books can handle the learning of a topic in a better way than brutal honesty and photos on the Internet.

 

HTH.

[Ibbygirl]

I agree with the idea of letting her see the empathy that some Germans had for the victims.

 

I would suggest that you do a READ ALOUD of The Book Thief. I loved the book as an adult and found it very emotional. I think it would be best to do a read aloud so you can stop and discuss things along the way.

 

Since she is that far into it, has she read Diary of Anne Frank?

 

Also see the documentary Paper Clips about American kids in a southern state who didn't know about the Holocaust then a teacher taught them about it and they made a museum with one paper clip for every life taken. However that does mention that also homosexuals were killed, don't know if she has gone down that road of discovery yet about the Holocaust.

 

THe Holocaust also affected disabled people. A wonderful book told in prose is T4. That explores a deaf girl hiding out to keep from being killed by Nazi's.

 

I want to underscore at this point especially due to her obsession as you called it, that you join in on her studies and do read aloud's and have discussions. Also I'd consider password protecting the Internet and having her back off from reading more on the Internet. Books can handle the learning of a topic in a better way than brutal honesty and photos on the Internet.

 

HTH.

 

Thank you for the wonderful suggestions. I did buy Anne Frank to read to her when she kept fixating on the topic of Nazi's, but I think I will delay it for the time being now that I see how it is turning into a prejudice. I don't want to feed the fire if you know what I mean. She has a disabled younger brother that she is VERY protective of and I think that is probably a big part of her vehemence towards Nazis. She knows that they killed disabled people and naturally she must have put two and two together in her mind that if her brother had been there at that time that they would have killed him because he is disabled.

 

 

I spend most of our homeschool time teaching her one on one. She does have some independent work, but she only spends about a half an hour to an hour a day on it. She has focusing and attention problems and honestly couldn't handle much more than what I give her at this point. We have one computer for the entire family to use that is in the living room and I supervise her when she is on it. I've seen her go to Wikipedia when she wants more information on a person or a topic, but I haven't seen her on Google images looking for Nazis.

 

I am going to focus on the other side of the coin to hopefully give her a more balanced perspective on the whole thing. We have had many discussions on the topic along the lines of, "suppose you were a German during that time when Hitler came to power. Even if you disagreed with him what could you really do about it?" and we have discussions like that. :)

[Spy Car]

Oh thank you so much, Carrie, for your reply. Does this book The Hiding Place show ordinary Germans trying to help the Jews?

 

Actually the Ten Boons were Dutch, not German, so no.

 

I think there has been a movement in recent years as first-hand memories are lost through old age and death, to attempt to balance the acts of a few brave Germans who resisted Hitler and Nazism with the great mass of the German people (who are increasingly portrayed as "Hitler's other victims).

 

But it doesn't wash. Yes there were a brave few. Yes their courage and high morals should be honored. But the German people during the rise of Nazism and through World War II were (in the main) enthusiastically in support of the Nazis.

 

It wasn't a "few bad apples". This was a civilization that was off the rails. One that fell in with "pure evil".

 

Your daughter is not wrong to be appalled. What's wrong is to pretend it was only a few. It wasn't.

 

You know I have German-American blood. And last week saw a German-American neo-Nazi whose family and mine go back 100 years and was a friend of my dad's in his youth, kill a man at the Holocaust Museum (and would have killed more if he wasn't shot himself).

 

An 88 year old man. But one still nurturing the evil of Nazism. We should not be quick to forget the reality of this dark ideology. It still lives.

 

And if this kind of evil comes around the only descent option is to fight it with everything you've got.

 

I'd let her be outraged for a while.

 

Bill

[Ibbygirl]

Actually the Ten Boons were Dutch, not German, so no.

 

I think there has been a movement in recent years as first-hand memories are lost through old age and death, to attempt to balance the acts of a few brave Germans who resisted Hitler and Nazism with the great mass of the German people (who are increasingly portrayed as "Hitler's other victims).

 

But it doesn't wash. Yes there were a brave few. Yes their courage and high morals should be honored. But the German people during the rise of Nazism and through World War II were (in the main) enthusiastically in support of the Nazis.

 

It wasn't a "few bad apples". This was a civilization that was off the rails. One that fell in with "pure evil".

 

Your daughter is not wrong to be appalled. What's wrong is to pretend it was only a few. It wasn't.

 

You know I have German-American blood. And last week saw a German-American neo-Nazi whose family and mine go back 100 years and was a friend of my dad's in his youth, kill a man at the Holocaust Museum (and would have killed more if he wasn't shot himself).

 

An 88 year old man. But one still nurturing the evil of Nazism. We should not be quick to forget the reality of this dark ideology. It still lives.

 

And if this kind of evil comes around the only descent option is to fight it with everything you've got.

 

I'd let her be outraged for a while.

 

Bill

 

 

I agree with you completely, Bill and I am a big supporter of remembering lest we forget,but the issue with my daughter is that she is OCD and has completely fixated on this issue and it dominates EVERYTHING. She writes comic books all about Nazi's, she talks about it all the time and she is constantly saying, "I HATE Germans". That is what is really bothering me. I'm not trying to tell her that the ordinary German citizens were not culpable, on the contrary, Hitler got to the position that he did because of the great support that he had, but when I see my daughter hating an entire country of people just becasue they are German and fixating completely on the issue it is very disturbing for me and that is why I am trying to give her another point of view. If she didn't totally fixate on the issue of the Nazi's I would be fine with her being outraged and letting her think through the matter for herself. The holocaust WAS outrageous, but the problem here is how it takes over all her waking thoughts it's like she's a record stuck on a scratch and she just can't get past that point you know? I'm just trying to give the needle a bump and get it onto another song. ;) Sigh. Special kids are so much fun! hehehe

[mom4him]

you might read up on the sister of the author (sorry, the name escapes me!) of The Hiding Place. (There's a movie too). She was in the prison camp and would look at the guards and say poor people! She knew the shame they would one day feel. She died, but her sister (the author) ended up ministering to the Germans.

 

Germans were people who were tricked into letting the Nazis have power b/c of much propaganda and lies. Once the Nazi leaders had power, to oppose them could mean death. Though there were several plots to kill Hitler by Germans! I know Dietrich Bonnhoeffer (sp?) opposed Hitler.

Corrie Ten Boon was the name of the author and it is an amazing story.

I heard Miss Boon speak once about how she was speaking at a meeting and one of the soldiers that had been a guard when she and her sister were in prison was there. It was quite a testimony to Gods forgiveness and healing as she personally went up to the man and told him she forgives him.

There is more than one book but don't remember the names of the others. Actually here is an Amazon link to her books

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_1_6?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=corrie+ten+boom+books&sprefix=Corrie

Keep talking to your dd. She will get understanding.

[Mom22ns]

Ibby I'm coming in a little late on this and you've already gotten a lot of good advice. I wanted to say that my son does the same thing though, not with Germans specifically, but with taking a specific incident and generalizing it to be angry with an entire group. I use the approach that others have offered you. I talk openly about whatever the negative situation is. I think its great that your daughter is horrified about the Nazis. Help her to be horrified about Nazis not Germans and understand the difference. Nazis are a political group. They existed then, they exist now, not only in Germany, but here in the US and other countries. Talking about positives in German society perhaps after the Nazis left power would be my next step. Germany has deep regret, most German's have deep remorse for what happened. Here are positives that have come from that country since in rebuilding, in economics, in athletics, in science, in whatever might interest her.

 

That is how we learn that there are negative influences in every population. No group of people will ever be perfect. Learning from mistakes of the past is important, not hating. She'll get there. Don't worry. It is normal for our black and white thinkers to have a hard time with these concepts.

[stripe]

(Just for your reference, it's ten BooM, not BooN. http://www.corrietenboom.com/ It was spelled correctly by the first poster to mention her)

 

But I would ask her if all white Americans should be hated for what some white people did to Africans and their descendants for hundreds of years (as Laura asked), to Native Americans, or for the internment of Japanese Americans (and apparently some number of Italian Americans as well) during WWII; or Europeans for the horrors of colonialism throughout the world (in Asia, Africa, and Latin America in particular). Remember that many civilizations/countries (even in this century) have committed atrocities, and that will really leave us with quite a lot of hate on our hand -- and whom do we resemble when we buy into mass racism and stereotypes? We begin to resemble those who perpetrate mass ethnic violence.

 

That is not to excuse those who perpetrated their horrific acts, however, but to put it in perspective that the Holocaust was not the one and only disturbing event in history. I would also caution her not to buy into the rhetoric that it will never happen again, since there have been other genocides in the years since WWII, and many of those have been people of different ethnic groups within the same country, such as in Rwanda and in the former Yugoslavia.

Edited June 19, 2009 by stripe

[Ibbygirl]

Ibby I'm coming in a little late on this and you've already gotten a lot of good advice. I wanted to say that my son does the same thing though, not with Germans specifically, but with taking a specific incident and generalizing it to be angry with an entire group. I use the approach that others have offered you. I talk openly about whatever the negative situation is. I think its great that your daughter is horrified about the Nazis. Help her to be horrified about Nazis not Germans and understand the difference. Nazis are a political group. They existed then, they exist now, not only in Germany, but here in the US and other countries. Talking about positives in German society perhaps after the Nazis left power would be my next step. Germany has deep regret, most German's have deep remorse for what happened. Here are positives that have come from that country since in rebuilding, in economics, in athletics, in science, in whatever might interest her.

 

That is how we learn that there are negative influences in every population. No group of people will ever be perfect. Learning from mistakes of the past is important, not hating. She'll get there. Don't worry. It is normal for our black and white thinkers to have a hard time with these concepts.

 

 

Better late than never I say. :) You have a lot of good things to say here. :) Thank you. :)

 

 

(Just for your reference, it's ten BooM, not BooN. http://www.corrietenboom.com/ It was spelled correctly by the first poster to mention her)

 

But I would ask her if all white Americans should be hated for what some white people did to Africans and their descendants for hundreds of years (as Laura asked), to Native Americans, or for the internment of Japanese Americans (and apparently some number of Italian Americans as well) during WWII; or Europeans for the horrors of colonialism throughout the world (in Asia, Africa, and Latin America in particular). Remember that many civilizations/countries (even in this century) have committed atrocities, and that will really leave us with quite a lot of hate on our hand -- and whom do we resemble when we buy into mass racism and stereotypes? We begin to resemble those who perpetrate mass ethnic violence.

 

That is not to excuse those who perpetrated their horrific acts, however, but to put it in perspective that the Holocaust was not the one and only disturbing event in history. I would also caution her not to buy into the rhetoric that it will never happen again, since there have been other genocides in the years since WWII, and many of those have been people of different ethnic groups within the same country, such as in Rwanda and in the former Yugoslavia.

 

 

I agree with you and actually have tried that tack with her as well. We've had many (MANY) discussions already about all of this. I talked to her about slavery and racism in general in the US and how dangerous it is when we no longer see a person as a person but as ________ (insert label here). I talked with her about atrocities in history as well as in other countries besides Germany. She listens, she nods her head, I ask her if she can see what I'm saying and she answers yes and then not a half an hour later I'll hear her muttering under her breath "I hate Germans". *Sigh* I just wish I could find some way to unstick her from this spot and get her to focus on something else. She's just stuck there you know?

[Spy Car]

I agree with you completely, Bill and I am a big supporter of remembering lest we forget,but the issue with my daughter is that she is OCD and has completely fixated on this issue and it dominates EVERYTHING. She writes comic books all about Nazi's, she talks about it all the time and she is constantly saying, "I HATE Germans". That is what is really bothering me. I'm not trying to tell her that the ordinary German citizens were not culpable, on the contrary, Hitler got to the position that he did because of the great support that he had, but when I see my daughter hating an entire country of people just becasue they are German and fixating completely on the issue it is very disturbing for me and that is why I am trying to give her another point of view. If she didn't totally fixate on the issue of the Nazi's I would be fine with her being outraged and letting her think through the matter for herself. The holocaust WAS outrageous, but the problem here is how it takes over all her waking thoughts it's like she's a record stuck on a scratch and she just can't get past that point you know? I'm just trying to give the needle a bump and get it onto another song. ;) Sigh. Special kids are so much fun! hehehe

 

 

I hear you. Maybe try to find a new (happier) fixation?

 

What's that over there? ;)

 

Bill

[Ibbygirl]

I hear you. Maybe try to find a new (happier) fixation?

 

What's that over there? ;)

 

Bill

 

 

ROFL :lol::lol::lol::lol: Ay IF ONLY that would work life would be so much simpler in this madhouse that I live in! hehehehe I have to confess something to you, Bill, when I read your "what's that over there?" My reaction was "what?" and I looked away from my computer! Ay, I think I need more coffee. ;) :D hehehehe

[Spy Car]

ROFL :lol::lol::lol::lol: Ay IF ONLY that would work life would be so much simpler in this madhouse that I live in! hehehehe I have to confess something to you, Bill, when I read your "what's that over there?" My reaction was "what?" and I looked away from my computer! Ay, I think I need more coffee. ;) :D hehehehe

 

he he

 

I'd try the Beatles.

 

All You Need is Love

 

Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.

There's nothing you can do that can't be done.

Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.

Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game

It's easy.

There's nothing you can make that can't be made.

No one you can save that can't be saved.

Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you

in time - It's easy.

 

All you need is love, all you need is love,

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.

All you need is love, all you need is love,

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

There's nothing you can know that isn't known.

Nothing you can see that isn't shown.

Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.

It's easy.

All you need is love, all you need is love,

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

All you need is love (all together now)

All you need is love (everybody)

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

 

She loves you ya, ya , ya.

 

Bill

[Ibbygirl]

he he

 

I'd try the Beatles.

 

All You Need is Love

 

hehehe You know, she actually really likes the Beatles. She takes great pride in telling everyone that she has listened to Eleanor Rigby almost 1,000 times!! hehehehe

[Spy Car]

hehehe You know, she actually really likes the Beatles. She takes great pride in telling everyone that she has listened to Eleanor Rigby almost 1,000 times!! hehehehe

 

So you've listened to Elanor Rigby 1000 times, BUT how many times have you listened to All You Need is Love???

 

Tonights movie: Yellow Submarine. All You Need is Love, and we can start hating Blue Meanies :D

[Ibbygirl]

So you've listened to Elanor Rigby 1000 times, BUT how many times have you listened to All You Need is Love???

 

Tonights movie: Yellow Submarine. All You Need is Love, and we can start hating Blue Meanies :D

 

 

hehehehe I played "I am the Walrus" for her once. You should have seen the look on her face as she was trying to process the lyrics. hehehehehehe

 

Ay, I like Yellow Submarine, but that song has a way of getting stuck.in.your.head. in the worst way. That's one of those lying in your bed at 2am with "we all live in a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine" going through your head like Chinese water torture!! hehe

[Spy Car]

hehehehe I played "I am the Walrus" for her once. You should have seen the look on her face as she was trying to process the lyrics. hehehehehehe

 

Ay, I like Yellow Submarine, but that song has a way of getting stuck.in.your.head. in the worst way. That's one of those lying in your bed at 2am with "we all live in a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine" going through your head like Chinese water torture!! hehe

 

It's better than having the Horst Wessel song stuck in your head ;)

 

Bill

[Ibbygirl]

It's better than having the Horst Wessel song stuck in your head ;)

 

Bill

 

 

ROFL :lol::lol: I had to actually look that one up on Youtube because I thought hmmmm I've never heard of that Beatles' song. hehehe Then the Nazi anthem starts playing. :lol::lol::lol: YIKES!! Propaganda anyone?? ;) :D

[Spy Car]

ROFL :lol::lol: I had to actually look that one up on Youtube because I thought hmmmm I've never heard of that Beatles' song. hehehe Then the Nazi anthem starts playing. :lol::lol::lol: YIKES!! Propaganda anyone?? ;) :D

 

Deliberately obscure reference to aid self-education ;)

[Ibbygirl]

Deliberately obscure reference to aid self-education ;)

 

 

hahahahahahaha :lol::lol::lol: Thanks! :)

[stripe]

She listens, she nods her head, I ask her if she can see what I'm saying and she answers yes and then not a half an hour later I'll hear her muttering under her breath "I hate Germans". *Sigh* I just wish I could find some way to unstick her from this spot and get her to focus on something else. She's just stuck there you know?

Maybe she needs to meet a Holocaust survivor or read something about how they've dealt with this, and/or meet a nice German person. Seriously. It's harder to hate when you have a name and a face instead of the abstract "German" label, or someone who actually suffered talks about how they see life.

[Ibbygirl]

Maybe she needs to meet a Holocaust survivor or read something about how they've dealt with this, and/or meet a nice German person. Seriously. It's harder to hate when you have a name and a face instead of the abstract "German" label, or someone who actually suffered talks about how they see life.

 

 

That's very true. :)

[The Governess]

There is a movie called Swing Kids that might be a good one for her to watch...well, I personally wouldn't let an 11 year old watch it (there is some language, a suicide, and a brief scene where some high school boys are looking at pictures of nude women), but it may be something you think about for a few years down the road, or maybe you could screen it and fast forward through the objectionable parts. It's about three high school friends growing up in Germany during WWII who start out the movie opposed to Hitler and his policies. These kids were part of the swing dancing scene, which went underground when the Nazis outlawed that type of music. As the movie progresses, they are pressured by friends, family, and government to show their support to the Nazis and they all choose different paths. I'm not sure as to the historical accuracy *at all*, but it might help her feel a little empathy for young kids growing up in Germany and how hard it must have been for those who didn't agree with the Nazis. The acting is pretty good. And the music and dancing is quite good too. :D The movie soundtrack is one of my favorites.

 

Here is a link to the reviews on Amazon.

[Ibbygirl]

There is a movie called Swing Kids that might be a good one for her to watch...well, I personally wouldn't let an 11 year old watch it (there is some language, a suicide, and a brief scene where some high school boys are looking at pictures of nude women), but it may be something you think about for a few years down the road, or maybe you could screen it and fast forward through the objectionable parts. It's about three high school friends growing up in Germany during WWII who start out the movie opposed to Hitler and his policies. These kids were part of the swing dancing scene, which went underground when the Nazis outlawed that type of music. As the movie progresses, they are pressured by friends, family, and government to show their support to the Nazis and they all choose different paths. I'm not sure as to the historical accuracy *at all*, but it might help her feel a little empathy for young kids growing up in Germany and how hard it must have been for those who didn't agree with the Nazis. The acting is pretty good. And the music and dancing is quite good too. :D The movie soundtrack is one of my favorites.

 

Here is a link to the reviews on Amazon.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. :)