I see. I guess you could only really figure it out through God and spiritual discernment. Prayer prayer prayer. Strangely, after I posted the initial question it occured to me that I know someone that molested a young family member, they repented and (obviously) I had forgotten all about it. The person in question was a pre-teen at the time and I think that may have something to do with my having forgotten, but I guess I do know someone that really and truly repented. Wierd... I'd lived my question and didn't even realize it.

The crux of it is, all things are possible through God. If God has redemed them, then.... Of course, if they aren't capable of repenting, that changes everything. That's why I won't touch the Pearl quote with a forty foot pole, I just do.not.know. Also, if you refuse to forgive, then aren't you saying, go to hell? This has been hippity hopping around in my head since Wednesday, when the situation was brought up (as a hypothetical) in Bible study.

:( Couldn't see the before... the link didn't work. Your hair does look very pretty :)

Joanne, I'm pretty sure I know where you'll stand on this, but I'm curious and sometimes find your answers spur my thinking to a different direction. Please note, I don't even know where I stand on this right now, just in a vague unsure confused sort of place... As Christians we have a responsibility to forgive. I've known Christians, and been one myself, who have jumped for joy knowing that someone who had done truly terrible things found redemption and salvation. A gang leader, guilty of the murders of many people and the ****ation of many more, moves to Christ and my thought is, praise God! A theif, a drug addict, a prostitute, they accept Christ, they change and it's pretty easy, ime, to celebrate their change. Now, we get to those that victimized children and I find a general abhorence, an idea of 'it doesn't matter, YOU can go to h***.' This is what stumps me. I could not imagine forgiving someone of that, not even if they did it to someone I didn't even know, not even if I only knew they'd done it, because they were on the sex offender list. I could not imagine opening my arms (shudder) to them, not to mention my church, my home! How is this Christian behavior though? I can't imagine Christ accepting them! Basically, what I want is scripture that says, those people should just be left to rot. Please.

My kids are hanging out with you, isn't that enough dysfunction? But really ;) One thing that took me awhile to learn is that adult life is NOTHING like school. Adults, for the most part, behave like adults. There are 'mean girls' and 'bullies,' but they are laughed at or scorned by the general adult population. Unlearning the social system of high school took awhile and once I was done with that I was shocked at how NICE life can be, how people in general are GOOD. As for the structure... college life is structured around a schedule the student builds. More like hsing than ps, imo.

Great advice :)

I go to Cato for my nicer clothes. Around here they all seem to be next to a Walmart :001_huh:. Their prices are definitely comparable to Walmart, the clothes are nice and, ime, they wear well.

titus2.com

You're speaking my language!:lol:

We've just finished week 1. My house is clean, the kids are already remembering a few "chores" (making their bed, brushing their teeth) without needing me to nag :) There's more involved in the week before you start than I expected (and a LOT of prayer), but so far, so good. :grouphug: I'm so bad at enforcing things. At one point the dh mentions how his dw had problems with reminding the kids, because she was so forgetful and didn't feel right correcting them over something she, herself is bad at... that is SO me.

This has been a very mild winter so far, but then... winter doesn't usually kick in till the end of December through February ;) I've lived here nearly all my life (6 mo stint in Md), I wouldn't live anywhere else. The neighbors we have from CA (there are a couple, go figure), tend to say that we're more "real" (?). None of them want to move back and they're all pretty happy to raise their kids out here. Enjoy and (almost) Welcome!

I agree with Brigette (whose name I hopefully spelled correctly). Also... well... if you could refute that argument with scripture, then you might bring him around to your way of thinking. Balancing who is a Christian and who isn't, between denominations that vary so greatly, is a tight rope walk. You might ask your ds if Mormans believe Christ is their Lord and Savior. That would be a good place to start. If his arguments aren't based on that, then even he will see the difference. As far as saving others, encouraging your son to do Bible Studies might be a good thing, as well. If he wants to study with someone of a different denomination, to find out where their differences lie, then both he and the other person could learn quite a bit. I would not take him out, but it's because I can see where he and his church are coming from.

Well, I could recommend a better shelther then ;) It's about an hour from La Plata.

Did you go to VA? I have a neighbor with a shelter in her home. She and her husband do have a ton of cats. They rarely turn anyone away. It is a little unsettling when you realize how many cats they actually have. The cats, though, are very well cared for and (incredibly) their home is CLEAN. No dust bunnies, no ammonia, no feces, just really clean. If the shelter you went to was like this one, then it probably is legit. Wendy's is the only refuge for cats out here and I wouldn't be surprised if, where you went is one of the places cats can go in your area. I have adopted and dropped off cats at Wendy's. I know they're loved and well cared for, and when I've gotten a cat there I knew it came from a good home. I would recommend that shelter or any "facility" where the cats are caged any day.

"Roar" explains it very well. It's only a dollar at Christianbooks.com, unless they recently raised the price. We've gone through the first two books and there are lessons in those books that clarify, imo, very difficult ideas found in the New Testament. Of course, you don't HAVE to use it that way, but it can be a very effective tool in teaching dcs about Christ. With "Roar" you even end up with a good Bible study :p

Can I add appetites to the mix? I'm changing, we all are, trying to move closer to God's plan for us. One thing recently brought to my attention was how we feed and create appetites in our children. With fantasy, and all the movies that go with it, I think it feeds an appetite for another world. An appetite for a world wherein God is not number one (if he even exists at all), an appetite where consequences are very different (if they even exist at all). Lately, all the kid shows we watch have started striking chords in me, where the wrong lessons are taught. Characters without any character win out, the repercussions of living without God are.... winning. So, I can see where it could be a problem.

Found this one after the one posted by the pp. It's a little more in depth (more like a special, than an example, iykwIm).

LOL, me too! I did have a miserable time, but normally didn't have anything worth stealing.

I send the little to Gramma's house. Normally, he can behave, but for some reason once you need him to be quiet and well mannered he becomes a beasty!

My problem with being the coordinator, which I was, was that I could not get his input on anything. I could not get a 'good idea,' 'bad idea,' or 'I don't care.' Nothing, except, I don't know ask me later. And really, I was submitting, to his indecision. Dh used to freeze whenever any sort of decision was needed. He's the breadwinner and I could never get a definitive 'yes we can afford this' or 'no, come up with something cheaper.' Finally having him step up and say yes or no has done wonderful things for us both. I never said, 'I told you so.' What was said, in a nutshell, was, "I need your input. I need to know definitively where you stand." I'd been trying to tell him that me running the show and him running the show, at the same time, was NOT working. I tried to tell him a lot of things, but he could not hear me (I believe all he heard was, 'Drew, nag nag nag nag nag"). When I finally submitted (instead of trying to run it and submit which is obviously impossible) whole heartedly, there were HUGE bumps in the road, but we needed those bumps to bring us closer to God's plan. Now that we're both more in line with God's plan (we've still got plenty to work on, but we're closer :p) things are better. Yes, it stunk to not have things and to finally let go, but since I have we're all better for it.

We actually went through this sort of thing and it DID lead to a better marraige. No birthday parties for a year, because dh could not bring himself to say okay, no anniversary stuff, we stayed home, same reason. It came to a head and he was wondering why everything was going wrong and we finally had the heart to heart that I'd been having with the walls while he ignored the issues. From there he has stood up and taken the lead and while, at first, it was daunting, he's grown quite a bit and is a richer version of who he was, iykwIm.

Maybe she'll call a few days before the party to rsvp? Tit for tat?

Why would he so half-heartedly look for a wife (if he was serious)? I'm curious, because it says he went to a few places, but didn't go back. It doesn't seem like he was really looking, more like just kicking the idea around. Maybe he had a religious crisis/ a crisis of faith?

Especially when you take into account that Christ came to serve as much as to lead. I think that gets forgotten. If you want to be the greatest, you must be the least. There is a lot of balance in Biblical submission. A husband does not lord it over his wife, just as Christ does not lord it over the church (lol @ the pun). Christ serves the church, the same that the church serves Christ. Without Christ there would be no church, without him serving the church, the church would fail. For the husband to be the head, he must also serve. I would put this with the 'mysteries' that those with ears can hear and eyes can see, iykwIm. :grouphug: It's just as hard for the husband as it is for the wife. At first, trying to just get the go ahead from dh on some of the most trivial things was like pulling teeth! I needed to know he was on board, though, and not just because he didn't want to argue. It took awhile ;) What's incredible is the difference as they learn to lead.

So, for those of us that said our dhs did become a better husband and father, because we started submitted, our husbands are what? My husband is an incredible, decent man. He's always been incredible and decent. Letting him head our house, instead of having to juggle who's in charge of what, when has made a great change in his life. He's relied on to lead. It's made him more discerning, more careful, more caring, and MUCH more involved. That doesn't mean he wasn't a man to begin with. What a mean thing to say, especially after pages of responses wherein women said that their husband's were better men. It makes it awefully tempting to wonder what kind of man can't lead his house, or what shrew wouldn't let him. However, I've no doubt there's reasons behind everyone's own way of living their lives. I've no doubt that there are plenty of good guys that don't lead, that aren't the heads of their households and plenty of good women that refuse to submit. That was just really rude.