:iagree:

Ooh! This stirred the memory of a site I had completely forgotten about! It, combined with the Well-Trained Mind, influenced our decision to classically educate our children. The goal of a classical liberal arts education is to free a person (thus “liberal†= liberating) from the narrowness, rigidity, and prejudice which is the natural characteristic of our minds. The goal of a Christian classical education is to do so for the glory of God. While it is true that apart from salvation an educated person may be nothing more than an educated fool, it is also true that an ignorant Christian, no matter how godly, is limited by that ignorance; an educated Christian is a more effective servant of God because his natural abilities and talents have been developed rather than allowed to atrophy. The tradition of education in western civilization has been propelled for nearly two millenia by Christianity, during which time it has always assumed diligent training in godliness by a child’s parents as an underpinning to education. That assumed, the liberation of a child’s mind is accomplished by teaching him the following, which can be grouped according to the classical Trivium-- grammar, logic, and rhetoric (the first five points)--and Theology, the King of the Sciences (the last two points): • to listen and read carefully; • to think clearly and express himself persuasively; • to comprehend his position in space, time, and culture and his relation to other places, times, and people; • to appreciate and learn from the difference between his own and those other places, times, and people; • to enjoy a wider range of beauty as a result of that wider exposure; • to devote himself to continued learning on his own, using the tools of learning acquired in the previous five points; • to evaluate, and ascribe the proper significance to, all of the above in the light of a transcendent, absolute standard; • to construct and defend a coherent, biblical worldview as a result of his education. It is NOT to get a job. http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/grammar/preparing.html

I'm really confused .... isn't this a pro-Islam event? Maybe she was trying to let you know about it???? If you read the words in the e-mail in this light, they could have been written by a non-native English speaker. Maybe she just copy/pasted? They seem a little disjointed for someone with English as a first language. I would just respond, "Thanks for letting me know! That event sounds awesome!"

I don't believe that your son could take the test until he is chronologically a 3rd grader, but I'm not 100% on that. I didn't see any younger children at the test site last year.

I think that would be the main thing. If he doesn't know something to skip it and move on. He can always come back to it if he has time at the end. Another thing I wish I would have prepared my son for was the length of the test. He commented that it was sooooooo long. My son had never taken a standardized test before, so we practiced filling in the little bubbles, but I don't know that you could actually prepare more than that. He said the questions on the test were very similar to the practice questions sent out.

From the Northwestern University's Midwest Academic Talent Search page... Imagine that you’re measuring a roomful of kids with a yardstick. That’s fine for the kids who are shorter than three feet, but for those who are taller, the yardstick is an inadequate tool. The same is true for gifted kids—to measure their abilities, you need a better tool than a grade-level test, one that can measure above that 99th percentile where the yardstick ends. That better tool is Northwestern University’s Midwest Academic Talent Search (NUMATS). Started in 1982, NUMATS is a program of the Center for Talent Development (CTD) that offers above grade-level testing for high-performing students in grades 3 through 9. This Talent Search approach is an extremely well-researched and respected program model in gifted education. NUMATS uses tests intended for older students to provide a more accurate measurement of aptitude, because studies show that students who score in the top 10% on school achievement tests differ widely from average students in their abilities and educational needs. In-grade achievement tests just don’t accurately represent these gifted students’ potential. NUMATS uses the EXPLORE test—developed by ACT and normally given to students in grade 8—to determine the abilities of students in grades 3 through 6. The ACT and the SAT tests, typically used for college admissions, provide a more accurate picture of the mathematical and verbal reasoning abilities of students in grades 6 through 9. After students test, parents receive comprehensive information about how their student measures up to other gifted students. This valuable feedback helps families plan for the future. We stumbled upon the test by accident last year, and I thought others here might benefit, too. We found this test extremely helpful for our oldest. We knew he excelled at math, but were shocked to find his science scores higher than his math scores. And, also were shocked to find his grammar & reading scores much lower than expected! We changed science curricula to his level this year because of the testing (versus trying to keep both older boys on the same level as we had been doing), and also switched grammar programs because even though he was doing well in that program, obviously something wasn't clicking. (He loves doing Grammar & Writing with Peace Hill Press this year, too! I can honestly say he didn't love his last program. {grin})

I have a second and a fourth grader. They each complete one lesson of math (Saxon) during regular school hours. This takes approx. 45 minutes from start to finish. They also each complete one lesson of math with dad in the evening (Singapore). This takes about 10 minutes. My fourth grader works pretty independently (although I'm sitting right there), but I sit with my 2nd grader and go through the lesson from start to finish. He's my daydreamer and if I step away or am not paying attention, math would drag on ~forever~. We approach it as non-optional, but something we do. Every day. I really don't give my children a choice in their school work or whether they do it. It's just expected. Period. I anticipate that I will give them more freedom to choose as they get older, but right now I don't think they're ready for that.

We love Saxon here, too. My oldest did Saxon 1 and 2. I freaked out because of reviews I read and switched to Rod & Staff 3. After a horrible time with that, we switched to Singapore 2a. That didn't feel like 'enough', so we added in Horizons 3. After a year of that, he was floundering with math facts, so we headed straight back to Saxon and have stayed there ever since. DS recently took his first standardized test (the Explore test) and he scored in the 92 percentile of all children his age who took the test. I am another voice that (now) takes the Saxon criticism with a grain of salt. There have ALWAYS been math wars on these boards. I remember there being moratoriums on the old boards of math discussions, LOL! (Just google math wars site:wtmboards.com to see for yourself!!!) PS. I think it tacky, tacky, tacky to come onto a thread that asks for good things about Saxon to say bad things. But, that's just me!

I vote for choice 3. Since you have a 4th grader, go right into that book. They will still be repeating definitions, but it will move faster than FLL3. I think WWE *is* necessary, but I would start with WWE III. You can download 6 weeks of it *for free* until it is released for sale in the next few weeks. This would give you a good feel for it. Link to download is at the bottom of this page: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/

I know you (the OP) just posted, but I wanted to let you know that my boys all have started Saxon 1 at 4 1/2 and loved it. If you wanted to skip ahead to Saxon 1, that wouldn't be unheard of. :-)

I would stick with WWE. If you look at http://www.welltrainedmind.com/writing-without-fear-producing-good-writers-k-12/, it says that paragraph writing is a 4th grade skill and your son is still in the early level of WWE 2 (a second grade writing book). I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend checking out Susan's Writing Without Fear lecture. You can purchase it as a cd or download it as an MP3 here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/audio-products.html?p=3

Oh, he's enjoying it. He has three books he's rotating through so far, and each book, on the day it is assigned, is his favorite book! :-) My concern wasn't that .... it's just that if this is "his thing", I'd like to be able to teach him to his fullest potential, and therefore was concerned that it might not be enough. I enjoy science, but I don't have enough of a science background to be comfortable enough to make that call. Last year my focus for science was finding something I could use with both of the older boys. This year (and in the future), I'm trying to fit each one's abilities. I'm not thinking of dropping what we have this year -- Yikes! I spent too much $$ on it AND we are really enjoying it. I guess my main concern would be whether or not to continue to Sonlight 5 for next year or anticipate switching to a new curriculum that might be more challenging for him. I would say Sonlight 4 is perfectly at his level, but not challenging. FWIW, this is the son that reads science text-y type books for fun. He's read (on his own) the Apologia Exploring Creation with Zoology 2, Wonders of Creation: The Ocean Book, and two public school textbooks I found at Half Price Books. I, on the other hand, find textbooks (at least the public school ones) too flashy and non-linear. There's a paragraph over here in a blue box, and one over there with a black outline, with a huge picture over here, and a sentence winding it's way around the border. They kill me! LOL!

Eeek! My oldest (4th grade) is definitely science & math oriented ... very much an engineering type personality. He shocked me by scoring surprisingly high on the math & science portions of the Explore test earlier this year. Up to that point he studied Rod & Staff Science (Patterns of Nature & God's Protected World), Apologia Astronomy, and NOEO Chemistry. I thought it would be helpful to move him over to a more in-depth program because of his test scores and after much searching chose Sonlight 4 for him. Now after reading this thread, I'm nervous about my decision to switch over to Sonlight Science. Is this not a meaty program? (I mean meaty by rigorous traditional standards in the sense used in this thread, not unschooling/Charlotte Mason/etc. standards.)

My mom had two -- my brother and I.

My maternal grandmother gave birth to 14, 10 of which survived. My paternal grandmother gave birth to 7, 2 of which survived.

Cant. Breath. Must. Stop. Laughing. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

I would consider depression/drug/alcohol abuse, too. From my own experience. I went from a straight A varsity cheerleader to a high school dropout. In hindsight, I wish my parents had stepped up more earlier in the game. They threatened a lot, but never followed through.

:iagree:

nm

Opening Up Ephesians by Peter Jeffery Let's Study Mark by Sinclair Ferguson Let's Study Ephesians by Sinclair Ferguson Let's Study Philippians by Sinclair Ferguson Let's Study Luke by Douglas J. W. Milne Also, check out: http://www.banneroftruth.org

:hurray: I agree. I think almost the worst advice to give to a newbie would be to change your approach every week or every day. Yikes! I floundered around from one curriculum to another within a few subjects my first year of homeschooling and it was awful! There was no consistency for me or my oldest. I love TWTM method and the curricula put out by Peace Hill Press. I find school interesting and exciting with everything we do. Definitely not stagnating! I expect my children to do their schoolwork. They can take apart the lawnmower at recess or after school, LOL! My boys LOVE to read, explore, do science projects, etc. It is among my more loosey-goosey friends that I hear, "My child never wants to read anything above "fill-in-any-serial-book". "My child refuses to do their math/grammar/writing/etc."

Congratulations! :-)

She looks great! I love that family. :-)

As Christians, we are called to, "Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. " (Matthew 5:42) But, also, the scriptures tell us, "“If a man borrows anything of his neighbor, and it is injured or dies, the owner not being with it, he shall make full restitution." (Exodus 22:14) I would hope that they would volunteer to pay for the damages.

I thought it was funny!