Lol, I vote laugh....and we have had many similar ocnversations around here with my teens! It can be exasperating to take them to parties and social engagements and drive miles to pick up friends who live out of town to come and stay (its summer holidays here) only to be told I don't let them do anything when I say no to one thing.

I keep mine together for whatever I can, but for skill stuff, I just cant, so they do their own levels. I often give them the same history writing assignment though, the same books to read...wherever it works, I combine, and wherever it doesn'y, I dont. With mine, the younger has LDs so its easier and obvious to expect less of him...however sometimes i have to be careful he isnt comparing himself too much. He completely gave up on trying to draw because his sister was so good at it.

Ive just come back to reading this thread after a couple of days and the tone I pick up is definitely a "this is the only right way to do it" sort of tone. Actually, thousands of homeschooled kids have "graduated" with a whole range of abilities and talents and strengths and weaknesses. I agree that honesty is important. I dont have to grade so its not an issue but I can see how it could be for parents that need to grade when they dont really know the subtleties of the subject. Also, I think its one thing to have an opinion of how you will do it, and another when you have actually "done" it and are speaking from experience. I agree with and am inspired by the gist of the conversation. I do think its a great and wonderful thing if parent can stay ahead of the child and involved- if one's goal is a very high academic standard across the board. In the end, it turned out, even though I love classical, it wasnt my main goal. My main goals turned out to be much more practical than academic. I wanted the kids to feel they could tackle anything they wanted, I wanted them to be capable in practical skills, I wanted them to be well rounded people and not spend 8 hours a day on academics even in highschool- even though I do value the academics too. My own experience as I move through the teen years and see what life unfolds for me, for us, has mellowed me somewhat. I dont have to jump through too many hoops to get my kids into university though. Its not so hard here- I dont have to do transcripts, grades or anything like that. My dd is intending to do a Diploma in her y12 which will then place her straight into 2nd year uni if she chooses- and getting into the diploma course was easy. So here I am with a year up our sleeve, not " having " to do anything to get her anywhere. I am employing outside services to get her writing to a high standard, but chances are, it is already higher than what the diploma course needs. While I do hear and understand many of the points being made....these are real people and real families we are talking about, not abstracts. We can have great ideals and its good to be aware of potential and limitations, and also to be very honest about the whole academic process. But in the end....I wouldnt like to judge families who homeschool for other reasons, who choose DVD programs or follow textbooks. For many of them, its a lifestyle choice and the mother is not inspired or possibly capable of doing the work herself, beyond the basics and using the answer key. Maybe its not ideal from one very elite perspective..but many kids are not going to soar to those academic heights anyway and just getting through is ok. And many who self teach or who use less than ideal courses actually do ok, get to college etc. I understand many of the points and feel its a very worthwhile discussion. Its just that when you put them together it can come across as very elitist and judgemental of ordinary folks who are just doing it the way they see best. Yes there are neglectful parents but using the extreme to measure the average is not very fair. People are just people and getting by, enjoying and loving their kids the best they know how. I would say there are people on these boards who work at the other extreme- the highly academic extreme- driven by any manner of things including very bright kids at times- but many of us have slightly different priorities. I appreciate the discussion though and it has influenced me as I potter about on my summer break preparing for our next year.

Hinduism is a very "inclusive" religion. The Christianity most people seem to practice is quite "exclusive" and therefore some tend to react to anything they perceive as "non Christian" as being threatening to them. Hence the reaction of many Christians to yoga. Yoga can be practiced on many levels, and the body stretches are the most superficial of yogas. I wouldnt try and understand it. Just accept it. You could skip the spiritual, deeper parts, and not call it yoga, and just do stretching and breathing, and call it stretching and breathing, and thats all you would be doing. Because thats not really yoga- its westernised yoga, and you may as well call it stretching and breathing.

We were done by lunch for a long time- about 4 solid hours of school...but it didn't include independent reading time. My kids were so conditioned to finishing by lunchtime though, they really resisted when I wanted to extend the hours. Eventually last year I said "that's it, we work till 3pm like kids in school, but you dont have any homework like your friends in school" and they came around to realising it wasnt so bad after all.

I never used to do it so much but now that 80% of my diet is fresh fruit and vegies, I dont mind cleaning out the fridge weekly. But that doesnt mean a full emptying and scrub- that only happens every few months.

I just presume pretty much everyone has trauma in their past. And what seems insignificant to some, and doesnt affect one person much, can traumatise another for life. Some people recover from incredible trauma to lead amazing lives..others dont. My parents separated when I was 13 and I didnt see it coming. We had been a normal middle class family, went on great holidays, mum ran a business from home so we had 2 incomes but a mother at home...I knew they fought but it was never out loud- more like the air was so thick you could cut it sometimes. Then one day they pulled my brother and I aside and told us that dad was going to live somewhere else, they were separating. And he did..he literally walked out the door a few minutes later. This was the early 1980s, and I knew of no one else in my life who had divorced- none of my friends' parents were separated. It wasn't a part of my world at all. My whole world came crashing down and I went into a deep depression and became very disturbed all my teens. No one knew how to reach me. I was offered counselling and I refused because I didnt even know what it was. I wish they had insisted. My dad remarried very quickly and made it clear his wife was his priority. My mum got with an alcoholic man. I moved to the country with her, my brother stayed with dad. I ended up leaving home at 16 to live with an older man who actually saw I was being emotionally abused and reached out to me. I finished school while living with him. Then I moved across the country. It took many, many years before my relationship with my mother healed. The one thing that has healed me more than anything else, is having my own children. I have done lots of therapy, and I have a lot of love and respect for myself nowadays..but its been a long journey. Ive been willing to do the work, to look inside, to examine my motives, to feel the awful feelings so that I can release them. There is no way through the trauma without feeling it. Having children though just opened my heart to others and took me out of my own pain. And, it reconnected me with my mother. I no longer see these things as good or bad. They are just life. We dont "deserve" them, but we don't "not deserve" them either. Its just not like that. These things are what make us who we are. They make us strong, they make us vulnerable, they give us unique perspectives on life. I am honestly grateful for what happened to me because of where it took me- travelling, leading a very unusual life, and on an inner journey. I am so glad I was inclined to want to lead a very different life to the one I saw people living while I was growing up.

I get your point about the American constitution guaranteeing your rights and that that makes you feel secure and proud in America's freedom (although I am constantly hearing about unconstitutional laws and resrictions of freedoms that make Americans mad)....but I think the discussion has proved that in reality, in the living out of modern democracies like Australia and Canada etc...the difference in freedoms is not very large. It may seem large to you guys...but we are not over here hankering after your freedoms- although there are many countries that have far less freedoms that do hanker after yours and ours. So no matter what the system is...and our government system is obviously different to yours....the "freedom" aspect is actually very similar in terms of how we live out our lives. I think thats what the discussion was pointing to...Americans "feel" they are freer that other countries, but in reality, there are several other modern western democratic countries that have very similar freedoms. We don't idealise yours because we are pretty happy with ours :) (as happy as any people can be with its corrupt government, and all are corrupt in one way or another). Thats all. It doesn't make your freedom any less just because we feel ours is fairly equivalent.

Yes, I get your drift and agree with it. People are out of touch with normal cycles- the daily cycle of sunrise and sunset is ignored with electric lights and alarm clocks, seasonal rythms are ignored- who knows what else we have become insensitive to? If in winter people went to bed earlier and got more sleep, and then spent time in whatever sunshine they could during the day...and slowed down...and simply took notice of the cycles of life including the moon, the sun, the plants, ate food more seasonally....I think everyone would be more grounded and at ease with their personal natural rhythms. We are too removed from nature, but its to our detriment...its actually beautiful to get back in tune, to always know what phase the moon is in, to feel hot in summer and cold in winter and not live in an artificial environment...I could go on. It's one of my favourite topics actually :)

Yes, thats quite possibly true...the human spirit seems to be ultimately irrepressible. People have also fought for their freedom since time began- the Native Americans obviously did, Boudacea did. It's a human quality. I am not sure how shedding their own own blood in self interest can be for freedom in reality, or just freedom in name and excuse...but I don't want to go there and completely derail the thread :)

See, to us non Americans, that is a very "American-centric" way of looking at things. Truth is, I dont know the complete details of the effect of the American War of Independence on the rest of the world...but Im pretty sure much of Europe itself was also moving toward less power to the monarchy, more power to the government...not sure there is a cause and effect thing there with America ....I am thinking it was more a sign of the times, a general movement in that direction in many countries. That is how I perceive it anyway- American's revolution was a reflection of the times, not the cause of them. But I think Americans might be taught differently.

Yes, that is my impression also. And there is no tyrrany greater than thinking one is freer than one is! The OP is obviously re-evaluating her assumptions but I think her assumptions are common. That is cultural conditoning and we all have it- Americans just have strong conditioning around freedom. I think the rest of us probably take our freedom a bit more for granted though. Although I think many Americans realise their freedoms are being eroded...it's happening everywhere. And I would also like the freedom not to vote. I never understood what a freedom that was until someone explained to me that if you "have" to vote, all the people who dont care, who havent studied the candidates, who are superficially influenced by the media...get their say just because they have to tick some box. When you dont have to vote, the people who are passionate about their opinions, vote. I think you would end up with a better quality of candidate. But thats jsut theory :) Not that I would want the American system of government :)

Your shape is perfect...it's your clothes that need to change. Go to some op shops and buy some clothes to fit you as you are NOW, so that you can get dressed each day. You can be big and still look good in clothes. At least you can find something you feel comfortable and respectable in, that you could drive up to the shops in and not feel ashamed. Maybe you need a friend or your dh to give you some feedback, but it sounds like a good first step for you to just buy some clothes. You have a waist? Thats enviable to many of us! My dd15 was jsut showing me how her waist is getting smaller while her hips are getting bigger and I am thinking wow, she is beautifully curvy in a way I am not- I dont really have a waist. Its amazing what we can get envious about :lol::lol::lol:

Yes, but justifying complete independence in highschool because one needs to be independent in college is not realistic. Yes, by the end of highschool, a kid should be able to work pretty independently, for sure, but theres a long way between 15 and 18 and many need a lot of handholding in that time. I don't feel that makes parents of those kids homeschooling failures. I am not against independence at all but I understand Michelle's point to be more that handing the reigns over completely is to bow out of the responsibility to stay involved in a way that is actually totally beneficial to the child/emerging adult. This isn't an either /or matter. It's not about the extremes of the child's complete independence versus being spoon fed everything. It's about the best education and the responsibility of the homeschooling parent to stay involved all the way through- in some form or another. I dont think that necessarily means personally teaching every subject through highschool and I dont think thats what Michelle meant . I like the point Ester Marie is making about educaiton being a social, interactive thing that is way beyond jut assimilating information and completing workbooks. I think if we didnt have that aspect in our homeschool, I would find it very dry and dull and so would my kids. That is what gives homeschooling, for us, it's life, it's joy, it's depth. And i am glad for this conversation because I am preparing for our next year and its a good reminder to me what my own ideals are and how often I fall short of them.

I cant help you with previous threads...but what comes to my mind is, have you checked out Flylady yet? She can help you get off your butt and she does it in such a loving way- you realise you need to do it to love yourself first. It involves baby steps. Its not just about housework..it's a whole way to get your life organised and keep on top of things. What made me think of it was you saying you stay in pajamas all day. One of the first things Flylady does is get you to get dressed to shoes in the morning, because of what that does to your energy and attitude all day. It really works. It may be the tough love you are looking for. flylady.net

This is right now. My 10 favourite things would change regularly. 1. My vegie garden 2. My adventures into eating mostly raw food 3. The Anastasia book series 4. My Thermomix 5. Socialising with friends 6. the beach 7. planning our next year's homeschooling 8. Youngs essential oils 9. going to Bali with just dh in 3 weeks (for 3 whole nights!) 10. Just being alive!

If I hold up TWTM as the ideal standard of what to get through each day....I'm a slacker. But we dont take days off very often. We plod along consistently with a steady routine.

Isnt the key whether the individual child has the support they need to keep glearning? For some, they may be perfectly able to self learn most subjects as long as mum brings them chocolate and hugs and emotional support. Others may need more support in different areas. My son needs me to stay very in tune with his work and if I fall out of tune, he suffers- the quality of his work suffers and everything slides.He needs immediate feedback. Yet my dd can manage quite well without my support as long as we have parts of the day, and some subjects like history, that we do together, so that she feels connected and not isolated. And, if she is struggling in an area I can't help her...I get support for her, like a good online class or a teacher IRL. And I have learned that some online classes dont give the sort of support she needs. Expensive lesson for us all...but other classes have really hit the spot. The parent doesnt have to do it all. They are the facilitator. They have their kids' best interest at heart. But they also have limitations. Knowing those limitations and working around them is key....I guess not caring enough to do something about it would be a sad thing....but who knows? Kids can be resourceful too.

You sound like me. I get worried about that sort of thing too. I think it sounds like he's not drinking enough water, actually. But I had my dd checked out for diabetes because she does have a sensitivity to sugar and a couple of years back it was pretty strong, she'd get stomach cramps and headaches after eating sugar... but I was reassured that her blood sugar was fine. My brother is a chiropractor and he has his kids drinking many glasses of water a day. Any type of symptom- headache, tired, pain, hungry...have a glass of water. Its a good habit.

I think I just dont like the question at all. It's only something I would answer in the affirmative if I was feeling defensive, actually. Our society doesnt value parenting as much as it should. In reality, its not my "job", its just the main thing I do at this point in my life, and it doesnt really leave me much time for anything else. I do have a part time cooking job. Homeschooling is not my "job" but then neither is it not my job. Our society is all too hung up on the concept of being "useful" and earning a living and having an identity. We feel people who don't have a good, solid label are a little insipid, harder to relate to, a bit "less than" someone with a good label like "nurse", "business owner", "executive". I feel very blessed to not have to work full time, and to be able to afford to and have the inclination to homeschool my kids. Its my life, but I only call it my job when I am trying to justify it, which already puts me on my back foot, defending my choice- usually, anyway.

Oh, I hate that too! My husband is very philosophical about insomnia and he always tells me not to fight it. Just relax and at least rest, or get up and potter around- but getting upset about it doesn't help at all. But then, he can live on 4 hours sleep for a long while and doesnt have to homeschool the kids all day! I hope you get some deep sleep soon.

Well, I knew peopel jsut used coconut oil as a deodorant- just rubbed some into their armits each morning- and I had done that and not felt too confident it was working. I probsbyl didnt give it long enough. Then last week there was a thread here that had a link in it....and now I have this lovely container with a mixture of baking soda, corn starch, and virgin coconut oil to turn it into a paste.)Dont ask for quantities- I dont know- just a heaped spoon of both and some oil to mix) I just get a bit of that out and melt it against my armpit and rub it in- straight after a shower. It seems to work really, really well. It was 35 degrees celsius here yesterday and I was out in the heat all day and I didn't smell at all (I kept checking with my daughter who was rather amused with me). I also added some essential oils so it smells awesome mixed with the coconut oil smell.

I dont know...the coconut oil can be hydrogenated and they can probably still call it 'pure' a slong as they dont add anything. The people who sell the really pure, virgin stuff usually make a big deal about how unprocessed it is. What is the brand? Some people here may know it. Does it smell absolutely yummy and like you would love to eat it? I have started using it as a deodorant and I just about want to lick my armpits. Sorry for the image, but my coconut oil just smells so yummy.

I think you can carefully wean a cihld off junk reading and onto healthier stuff just by making sure it is around. When we first started homeschooling my dd was 9 and she loved Goosebumps books- all the kids at school were reading them. Ds who was then 7 wanted to read them too and started collecting them even though he could barely read. They were the only books I actually banned and got rid of...but I didnt do it before I had substituted them with plenty of better quality reading that they were enjoying. I grew up on Enid Blyton books and while they may not pass the twaddle test, they did get me reading a lot and they were emotionally fulfilling for me. I wouldnt get too rigid about it...but be aware of what goes into your child's brain and just look for better books that will still appeal.