Dh and I were divided regarding this at one point (well, we still are). Dh wanted to "get in their faces and call them out, get others involved," etc. when our YAs did something with which he did not agree. That was not happening. I came to a point where I realized that our YAs are making their decisions, and my message to them has been that the lights are always on, the doors are unlocked (literally), and there is always a place for them to sit and talk (or not talk), eat, sleep, or just chill. After a brutal time with our oldest dd and a pretty rough time with the next 3 dc (the oldest 4 were born in 4 years, so we got to experience YA angst in mass form all at once - fun times), I try very hard to let them know that they are SAFE with me. I don't dish out unwanted advice. If they come to me and just want to talk, I listen and don't say a word. If they ask for my opinion, I make it gentle. I respect their privacy and do not share with the others what is going on (unless I have permission). If there is something I feel strongly enough to approach them about, I phrase a question: "May I ask if you would consider?" or "Is it OK if we talk about...?" Everything I wish had been shown/done with me (and with dh by his mom), I wanted to do w/my own dc. And I thought it would work so well...sigh. I guess in some ways it has. Of my oldest 4, 3 of them have restored relationships with me/us and they know they are safe in the way I'd hoped. Given how bad it got with all 4 of them in different ways, to have 3 of them "back" is still astonishing to me. There was a time when I was sure I would never see/hear from any of them again. 😞 But darn it, my approach didn't work with all of them. I thought it had...I had no clue how very wrong I was. I feel quite discouraged, to be honest. Knowing what a crap shoot this all is, I want to give up because what's the point in trying so hard if it doesn't really matter? That's the blah part of me reacting - I have to fight pretty hard against that.

This is what I think, too. Things we tried, things we were told would result in such-and-such with our YAs backfired badly. So we switched things up in hopes of a better outcome, but at this point I truly believe that it's 99.99% luck as far as raising kids. I/we thought we were doing mostly the right thing w/dd23. She clearly expressed what she did/did not want, we respected those requests, and now here comes the blame. I also believe that with some people, it's d*mned if you do, d*mned if you don't. No matter what I do or do not do, I cannot win and things will be my fault. I just didn't see it coming in this way from dd23 - not to this extreme, at least. It's insane...I didn't have scales in the house as I didn't want my dc to be fixated on their weight. For all their growing up years, the message was, "It's about being healthy and strong." I didn't put expectation on my dds about body size/shape; I didn't fixate on that myself (so they didn't hear it). Dd is VERY underweight (yes, she has an eating issue) and it is somehow my fault. I hold out hope that as my dc move out of YA stage (which I must say is my least favorite age/stage of all), relationships will be restored and I will not be blamed for everything either real or imagined.

So sorry I could not return to this thread sooner! I'm still dealing with some sick kiddos and other stuff. OK, so this particular dd is a fiesty one - fiercely independent and openly scornful of any kind of concern or help offered. This is one who always had everything figured out (even if she did not) and was going to do what she wanted, how she wanted. I've tried to follow her cues as far as involvement and interaction, especially as those cues are fairly strong. We've had long periods of no interaction (not for a negative reason, just her living her life and not wanting us/me involved), then periods of some interaction, and now more on her part of reaching out and investing (some) in the family. So it's been good and I honestly thought all was well. Whew, was I wrong. 😞 A few months ago she got involved with high school plans and my 17yod (who has, unfortunately, gone to dd for advice). My volatile dd called me (I had no clue she and her sister had been talking) and what ensued was a spewing of things she was angry about from her growing-up years that shocked me, and then she hung up on me. I didn't have a chance to say one word. That situation simmered down and again, I thought all was well. Wrong again. When dd19 was getting ready to fly home from Boston, most of my dc were sick. So instead of dd19 coming straight home, dd23 offered to pick her up from the airport and keep her for a few days until the sickness had passed. All of these plans were set up between my dds - I did not request that dd23 get involved, she just did it and it seemed to work great as the girls had a great time together. But in dd's tirade, she threw at me that she spent her gas money picking up MY child and then paid extra for dd19 to stay in a hotel which dd23 had reserved for her time where we live. Also included was how dd23 was paying for food expenses, etc. On and on it went - the guilt trip for things I was completely unaware of. And again, I never asked for any of this "help." At any time, dd19 had a place to stay for no cost which would have not been around sick kids. But both girls were in agreement with the arrangement and so nothing was thought to be an issue. Good grief. Then dd23 went on to list other things which she holds against me - everything from her college education, her weight/health, her finances. It was an exhaustive list that left me dumbstruck. To top it all off, she began her tirade with accusing me of gaslighting. What in the what?!?! Believe me, I examined her missive closely and tried to see where she was getting any foundation for her accusations, but I came up empty. She was over the top angry and blaming me for things that left me shaking my head. Now all of that I would have discussed with her, listened to her, maybe not agreed but at least heard her out. But this girl brought so many other people into this without giving me once chance at a private conversation. That is NOT how we roll in our family at all. Oh my gosh, the things dd23 has done that no one else knows about...whew. But never, never, never did I divulge her private life or our private issues with anyone else - not even her siblings know/knew. So the fact that she did a "shotgun" message to me that spread to others is what has me so, so angry. I did respond to her (and everyone else on the number list) that while I do not dismiss dd's feelings, I will not engage in the manner which she set up. If she wants to talk privately or with a third party involved, I am willing, but as a family I expect us to approach conflict privately. And here's where it gets more interesting..... Dh's response was this: "Dd23, I want you to know that I read your message and that I hear you." That was it. Nothing more. I saw that and my heart sank. Why? Because I knew dd23 would take it as she did - confirmation that she is right and I am wrong. When I presented this to dh, he adamantly and angrily declared that he never agreed with dd and that he thinks she is wrong. But sure enough, here came her response: "Dad, I thank you for your acknowledgement and support. Mom, it's OK, I still love you regardless." And that's where things stand. She's beyond hurt that I did not hug her at the park, yet I didn't hug dd19 until she approached ME for a huge. But when I see 3 YAs with hefty masks and I know they are very concerned with getting sick, I didn't race for a hug and neither did any of us - dh or the other dc. But from that, the volcano of emotions erupted with dd23. I've told her again that I love her and that I have no favorite dds/dc. Silence from her.

Because most of our dc have been sick recently, we met our YA dc at a local park on Xmas Eve. When we arrived, dd23 was already there along w/her boyfriend and dd19. They got out of the car and were wearing masks - not flimsy, cheap ones, either. Now we're outside, on top of a hill, breeze blowing, and they kept their distance w/masks on. OK, message received. I kept my own distance even though I was almost in tears and just wanted to hug the heck out of my girls. Dd23 walked toward the park where her younger siblings had raced to while I talked, at a distance, w/dd19. It wasn't until dd19 came up and hugged me that there was any contact. We joined the others and all seemed fine. Dd23 did come up and ask me if she got a hug as well, and so we hugged and all was fine. Or was it??? I got a message from her the next day that held nothing back: I don't love her, I prefer dd19 as the favorite, I wouldn't hug her, etc. She brought up things from months and months ago that I didn't even know were issues! And she included the entire family in this. Did not come to me privately, did not ask questions or seek more details in order to understand. It was just BLAM!!! BLAST!!! BOOM!!! Accusations flying that left me stunned. I cannot win. As a mom, I cannot win. I try to respect their boundaries and I'm wrong. Something happens and I want to help them, am told no, stay home, and months later I'm horrible in their eyes because of it. I cannot win. Needless to say, yesterday was really, really crummy. Dd19 came over and all was well, but dd23 would not come over at all. Yeah, it was a great (not) day yesterday.

Quite often for us as we just finished up a year of reading through Wilder's books. The Long Winter was the last one we read. One of the projects my dc did was track temps for a month and compare where we live (AZ) with SD. That was super interesting and has led to a lot of tracking/discussion with this current weather! I'll take AZ, thanks. 🙂

I wrote a song (well, no, I copied from a song - totally cheated). My sleep-deprived lyrics: On the first day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: The promise of misery! On the second day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: One kid a-coughing and the promise of misery! On the third day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: Some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing and the promise of misery! On the fourth day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: Most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing and the promise of misery! On the fifth day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery! On the sixth day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: Meds on the counter, "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery! On the seventh day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: Tea by the gallon, meds on the counter, "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery! On the eighth day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: No sleep for this mom, tea by the gallon, meds on the counter, "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery! On the ninth day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: 104+ fevers, no sleep for this mom, tea by the gallon, meds on the counter, "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" Most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery! On the tenth day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: Puking in the bathroom, 104+ fevers, no sleep for this mom, tea by the gallon, meds on the counter, "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" Most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery! On the eleventh day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: Running so much laundry, puking in the bathroom, 104+ fevers, no sleep for this mom, tea by the gallon, meds on the counter, "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" Most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery! On the twelfth day of Christmas Break, this life gave to me: Can I get a break now?? Running so much laundry, puking in the bathroom, 104+ fevers, no sleep for this mom, tea by the gallon, meds on the counter, "MOM, I FEEL SICK!!" Most down with headaches, some kids with sniffles, more kids a-coughing, and the promise of misery!!!!

I heard one of my dc say that last year and was horrified - that is not how we talk and hearing it out of her mouth was not good. Glad it happened at home where I could address it, though, and not at a park or with friends.

That was a good brain dump. In a light note, I did throw my dc's laundry out in the yard...up in the tree. Way up in the tree. I heard one asking where her clean pants were and a sister said, "Go look in the tree!" 3 days of climbing/knocking socks, underwear, etc. off branches (and it was COLD!) and most of mine get their laundry now. Sometimes a few need a reminder and their clothes go out the door. 🙂 I've had that "button" pressed when I hear something said, especially by my dc, and have to process quickly the context, etc. It's a bit unnerving when that happens.

One fever down to 100. ds7 still at 102-103 and quite miserable now that stomach upset has also set in. Not sure what today will look like...3 more of the dc have not had the fevers so watching them closely. I got an hour of nap-sleep so feeling quite zombie-like right now.

I hold off fever reducers until 103 or if miserable. I do rotate ibuprofen/Tylenol, although my pediatrician told me (following the febrile seizure) that if it gets over 104 to give half and half, and that has always worked wonderfully. His temp came down to 102 w/the combination meds and bath.

I was the "acting like I got this" mom until my #8 had a febrile seizure. At the same time, a friend's dc had something fever related which I won't detail here, but it rocked my world. So I don't sleep and I watch them at night, and I still find myself with car keys in hand, wondering if it's time for the ER.

I think I just need reassurance tonight. Crazy that I've been a mom for 26 years, 13dc, and yet fevers still spook me. Some of my dc, mostly my boys, will get to 104.6/104.7. Those warrant a quick trip to a lukewarm bath, wet towels on backs/chests/heads, etc. I sit up all night monitoring them even as they sleep. They're eating and drinking, tired but not overly lethargic. But it's these times that I don't feel like a "seasoned" mom, rather a nervous mom who is unsure of everything all over again. I can handle head colds and stomach flu just fine, but not fevers.

Congrats to your dc!! I was fretting big time for S to get out of Boston today and out of the weather.

I am laughing for the first time today. Perfect way to phrase how this feels. Thank you all for letting me whimper a bit. I know we're fortunate to not have things worse and am trying to be thankful for more than I'm whining about.

Like so many others, we've been hit with the head colds/coughs this entire month, yet we'd managed to avoid fevers until last week. 3 of my dds were sick, then they were recovering and I was so happy because dd19 is flying home from Boston tonight and I didn't want to risk her getting sick. Last night, ds12 spiked a fever. This morning he had a lovely fever-induced delirium episode, and right after I got him calmed/cooled down, in came ds7 with red ears (telltale sign) and crying. Fever. Two more are showing signs of feeling punky. So dd19 will get picked up from airport by her older sister and will stay in Tucson with her for a few days. That is the one consolation - that the sisters, who have so little time together, have that time. But dd19 is only home for 20 days as she's heading back to Boston early, and I am just sad because yesterday I realized that one more night and she would be back home, and it was like an early Xmas present. Then in my sleep-deprived state, I forgot to call our adopted grandmother who has come over every week since 2004 to visit with us. She's almost 80, went through COVID and cancer and a slew of other health stuff, keeps going into work twice/week, and is just an amazing gal. But I had to shoo her out of the house so she wouldn't be exposed to us and then stood outside and had a total meltdown. Didn't care if the neighbors saw me, just cried. To top it all off, my mom announced that she is heading back East and renting a cabin for my older sister, her son, and my mom because those are the "only living family she (my mom) has left." I guess it's good to know that she won't be here, at least. I know these are pitifully weak and lame things to be sad over when there are so many facing far worse things. I just needed that visit with our friend who loves us/the dc more than my own mom, and I so wanted my girl home tonight. OK, that's all.

Does telling my girls that however they chose to dress, I would also wear, count?? That was enough to make their faces freeze in a somewhat horrified expression. This was after we had observed and were discussing the trend of wearing underwear as clothing (or clothes that showed very clearly what underwear one is wearing, top and bottom). 🙂 I used to talk a lot about modesty with my older kids. That along with pretty much everything else I thought was important went out the window. We do talk about appropriate situations for clothing, and if they wore something that was questionable, I'd discuss it with them. But I honestly think they have learned more from observing others and deciding what they do/do not want to dress like than from anything I might say.

I'm late to this so will just quote and agree. 🙂 I have been on/off again here since my #4 was born in 2000 (I think?). I come here first when there is a newsworthy topic and I want to read both sides w/o ugliness. Teen/young adult issues? Crazy narcissistic mom issues? Or just to indulge at the end of a long day and browse through what everyone is chatting about? The Hive is the one place that has remained consistent over these many years. And it feels so, so wonderfully good to see those who have remained even after their homeschooling journey has come to an end. It's just a good place for me to have no matter what is going on in my life. I post rarely (save for You Can't Make This Stuff Up topics) and don't have much to offer, but I love lurking. On FB the question is often posed as to what sites/resources the btdt moms recommend. WTM/The Hive is always my suggestion.

I take two cookies, open both, set aside the two pieces with the most filling, eat the other two with the least filling/plain, then put the two most-filled halves back together and eat that whole. The logic is that I take two cookies but, in my mind, actually eat 3. It works for me. 🙂

Given that the person using the nickname is not doing so out of any sort of kindness or "pet name" reason, I would not be OK with it and would put a stop to it. But then I have a lovely (not) mother who insists on nicknames/shortened names, most of which sound ridiculously stupid, and who actually asked some of our dc to stop using a pet name for one of their sisters because it sounded like...well, I won't even post what she said, it is so offensive. Needless to say, we shut that down immediately. Our dc have names - use them or just don't use any name at all. If we had people who had a special/pet name for our dc and using it was done out of love and a sweet relationship with one/some of the dc, that would be entirely different. But to shorten a name because one doesn't like the given name, and especially doing so knowing the parent(s) are not OK with it, is rude and disrespectful. I'll confess that I have a hard time with the name my dd gave her dd. But I smile and say the name, or I use "dearest" or whatever. So I get not liking a name, but I don't get disrespecting parents and insisting on shortening a name. My dislike of a name is my problem/issue, and my behavior as a result of not liking a name is my responsibility as far as being respectful and not antagonistic.

So...I'm one who actually walked out of a store when "Drummer Boy" was played one year. That and another one which I shall not mention mean that when it comes to Christmas/holiday songs, I am a real Scrooge. Finding anything I can tolerate is, um, challenging. However.....my brother played the Bare Naked Ladies holiday album for me years ago and it remains my favorite. That and Toolbox Christmas are what keep me sane when music is played everywhere that I can't stand. 🙂 O Come, All Ye Faithful, on the other hand, is my favorite Christ-mas song for sure. Even a child, I remember wanting to be counted among the faithful, joyful and triumphant. Performed with trumpets, it seems like a song of victory - I just love it.

We would already be at the facility 3-4X/week (sometimes more often). The times we're there allow for 2 days of maintenance cleaning and 2 days of bigger projects (ie: glass surrounding the rinks). The membership fees are for 7 kids - something we could never justify paying. And it covers not just their Rec hockey but skills clinics and travel ($$$). We may put in more time than the memberships/benefits are worth, but since we're already there, and since we enjoy tackling tasks like this as a family, and since I don't like to just sit and watch hockey practice for 3 hours straight, I hope it will work out well for all involved. It feels super good, to be honest, to see the facility go from drab and blech to fab and WOW in just the few weeks we've taken over. 🙂 Our kids have charts showing the hours they've worked so they can see each month if their membership fee has been "covered." It's incentive and it's a great chance for them to make a connection between money and work. Even our 7yo has his tasks and his own chart - he takes great pride in watching the $ amount go up with every 30 minutes he puts in. The other thing I am realizing is how invisible janitors really are and how their work can be taken for granted, especially with kids. Oh man, are our kids appreciating what goes into keeping things clean in a public place! And if nothing else, the kids have access to skating that no one else has. Today we went while it was closed and after cleaning, the kids got the entire rink to themselves. It's pretty awesome. We have industrial mop buckets, we just have one mop which is not do-able.

Our family has been offered an exchange - janitorial services for membership fees. The complex we will be cleaning is BIG: 2 full-size hockey rinks, volleyball court, 8 locker rooms, wide/long walkway, etc. And right now there is just one mop. One. Yikes. It takes us an hour just to do the locker rooms! I've been allowed to make a supply wish list and know pretty much everything I want save for the mop. We hand wash floors at home using heavy-duty cleaning rags, so I have never owned a mop. But I know I want one that can withstand a lot! Any suggestions? Either brands/types to look for or to avoid?

Do you a recommendation for one of these? I am like TeacherMom - overwhelmed just at the prospect of buying a new pillow! Too many options and prices are $$ which makes me reluctant to buy anything and not like it. And so I keep my decades old mattress and try to ignore the need for a new one. Even a mattress topper - too many options!! This from a gal whose wardrobe consists of black, white, and gray clothes. Three options, no issues. Easy peasy, done.

It's strange because Mom has been completely silent with me (definitely not so with her friends/extended family...sigh). So I do wonder what this is going to look like once she's out of rehab? I'm guessing she is talking with folks about who will take care of her and with my older sister about such details, which makes this even more interesting because how does one who does not/cannot get out of bed save to get to the bathroom take care of a mother who might need a lot of help?? Put a few thousand miles of distance between those two as well and it really is perplexing. My younger sister pointed out that my mom listed older sister, who had COVID and a teenager also sick w/COVID, as an emergency contact for the hospital/physicians here in AZ. My older sister, also in the hospital and w/a sick kid at home, put my mom as her emergency contact. So two patients, one sick and one recovering from surgery, and both with obvious mental/emotional issues, have each other as contacts and health care legal whatevers. But the two daughters who live in close proximity to Mom and older sister are on the "banned" list. It's almost comical. It does feel so, SO freeing!! My younger sister has said the same thing as she's also spent years trying to help our older sister, and now she's just done.

I just found out that my mom removed me from her emergency call list and as her healthcare stand-in/voice (there's an official word for that...can't think of it). My younger sister, who was completely snubbed by older sister with all of this, is done. I'm done. So my enabling brother and his perfect CA life gets to experience my mom. Have at it, good luck. I guess this answers the question posed by my kids: "Do we have to have Thanksgiving with Oma?!" Last year, my 23yod would not come home if my mom was going to be here. 😞