AFC (American Federation for Children) is a HUGE factor behind the ESA, and one of its goals is to get funding for all homeschoolers. Of course AFC doesn't give two hoots about the laws in each state, so the fact that AZ homeschoolers cannot receive a penny of funding doesn't matter to them. So I think homeschooling is a very large target not just for new homeschoolers but those who have been doing so for years and are now signing up for funding (but usually not dropping the appropriate title and adopting the correct one). Those "homeschoolers" I know have their kids in 5-6 different activities, none of them cheap, all of them paid for by the taxpayers, and they use Amazon workbooks for academics. They actually boast openly about how they aren't teaching history or science (this despite those subjects being required). Home educators, at least in AZ, are the main focus of the ESA, and those new to the program (pre-expansion) are showing the most entitled, self-centered, greedy kind of behavior. 😞 I do think private schools are also a target, but in AZ the pop-up schools are absolutely staggering. Micro schools, pods, learning centers - the ESA expansion unleashed these in a crazy way. Co-ops which would have previously been parent-led with a minimal facilities fee are now organized businesses with classes kids can take for hundreds if not thousands (not kidding - $1000/semester for a class on how to brew coffee). And there is nothing in place whatsoever to make sure taxpayer funds are being used wisely. Nothing.

Yep. I cannot stand it.

One argument against the universal expansion (and the ESA program in general) is the question of whether many activities such as scuba diving, ice-skating, multiple trips to zoos/aquariums, etc. should be taxpayer-funded. The original premise was to provide home educated students with the opportunities public school students have, but it seems there are few boundaries in this regard and so the ESA is covering things which public school students not only do not have access to, but whose parents are still paying for (ie: swim lessons). So now activities, lessons, classes and such are going WAY up in price because ESA/home educated students have access to 7K/year/student. Homeschool families are unable or unwilling to pay these amounts, and the public is wondering why they're now footing the bill for expensive sports camps and the equipment for those camps (including basketball shoes - true story). But now that the funding is out there with no limits for academic vs. other categories, rolling things back will not be easy if possible at all. People like this "free" (not) money and what it can get them - totally understandable. But the public was not allowed the right to vote on whether taxpayers should be forced to fund admission to OdySea aquarium with no limit for those with ESA contracts. I'm just using what you offered as activities as these are what are covered in AZ and are one of many reasons the ESA is coming under scrutiny. 🙂

https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/01/30/parents-in-voucher-program-hold-onto-funds-amass-large-sums/

It was originally designed to allow students with learning disabilities and extenuating circumstances have more time to complete coursework, receive therapies, etc. The universal program is too broad and grossly unfair - it did anything but level the playing field as far as education in AZ.

That's when I would make a move for the exit and either head for the bathroom or outside. I hate shaking hands with people and honestly, I just refuse to do so now. I've seen folks sneeze into their hands right before the "meet and greet" time - ick. I've seen the greeter at the door do the same and shake hand after hand - ick. It's gotten to a point that I go in a side door, thereby avoiding the greeters, sit in the corner in the back away from as many folks as possible, and know where the exit doors are so I'm out of my seat and out the door before anyone can turn and hold their hand out to me. Extreme, maybe, but I find the practice of shaking hands to be really, really gross.

The thing is, the ESA covers tuition, etc. for CC for high school. So ESA students have the same opportunities as public school students. But public school students do not have funds rolled over as ESA students do; ESA students have access to whatever is left in their accounts for 3 years, I think, post graduation. And while I cannot speak for every homeschooler, those whom I have known over the years have been fine with not being allowed to participate in concurrent enrollment at the CC for "free." We know we don't bring any funding to the schools/district, so we don't expect to participate in things the same way as public-school students.

There are approved vendors, and there is an allowed items list, but the list is kind of a joke when you consider that anyone can write a "curriculum" and submit it along with a list of things necessary for the "curriculum." So a parent could submit a swimming curriculum and list goggles and swimsuit as "required" items. Another huge issue is that the allowed items list includes things like backpacks and lunch sacks, pencils, paper, crayons - all things which the vast majority of public, private and charter school parents are purchasing for their child(ren) going back to school. Why are taxpayers footing the bill for lunch sacks?? Here's more entitlement: It's not enough that ESA students get admission to OdySea aquarium, Butterfly Garden, trampoline parks, Out of Africa, etc. covered - there are parents wanting the program to also cover gas costs to get their kids to these places. I'm not kidding. What it comes down to is that this is forced taxpayer funding for an education option with zero follow through or assessment, so the taxpayers are footing the bill for students who may know how to kayak and ride horses but can't show any kind of academic improvement or progress. Or it's forced taxpayer funding for private schools, including religious. Even as a conservative, Republican-leaning voter, this does not sit well with me at all. And the businesses...oh my. Here's an example: Sleezeball guy (and his wife acting as his mouth and spine) try to start a "school" for "homeschoolers" in a facility which has significant grants from the City. They are, of course, targeting ESA funds. While I am cleaning this facility, I see a group of gullible moms come through as this guy promotes his business...er, school. There are easily 20 moms in the group with an average of 3 kids each. This guy will generously (sarcasm) give $2500 back to the parents for each child, and he'll pocket the other $4000 or so. $4000 X 60 = $240,000. The "school" would not provide curriculum, just tutoring and guidance. The man and his wife are not teachers. There will not be any teachers, just "tutors" with the sole requirement being a high school diploma. It's big business. Another thing that has popped up: Not reporting ESA income. Tutors who are making $150/hour (because friends are hiring other friend's graduated students or spouses) and not reporting the income. There was an entire discussion on an ESA forum about how to go about earning money without having it declared on taxes. Another thing: roll-over. Don't use all of the funds? It rolls over to the next year. So families can spend $10 on a workbook and sit on the rest of the money which can be used for higher ed tuition, fees and books. "Free" college (paid for by the taxpayers, of course). Public school students don't get that. Do private school students have the money designated for them rolled over if it's not all used in a year? And yet how in the gosh darn heck would someone spend almost $7000 on one student each year (special needs/services not included in this)??? And all of this mess pushed through by an outgoing Governor who was a coward at best and knew he couldn't pull this crud without facing a recall. So he "heroically" did this in the name of school choice (never mind that AZ already had incredible school choice with homeschooling and STOs), and it passed despite twice voted down by the public. Dang, this thing makes me so angry.

Oh, you would not believe the complaining by those who state that 7K/student/year is not enough!! One mom signed her kid up for private school, then was just shocked when she only had $200/semester left to spend. Other parents are in a rage that they now have to pay for their children to participate in sports at the public schools or for the "free" tech school (which homeschoolers can attend for no charge). The entitlement is...staggering. Want to have a P.E. "class" at a waterpark? Want an espresso machine from Williams Sonoma (price tag ~$1000)? Just submit a "curriculum" and you've got it! I'm not kidding - a mom used a "curriculum" to by her teenager a top of the line espresso machine.

KaiPod, Sequoia Choice, Prenda and more moved in like leeches even before the expansion had the final vote and signing. They promised "homeschool" parents the generous amount of $1500...no, $2000...no, even better, a whopping $2500 for signing their child up while the business side kept the rest of the public funds. These businesses came under legal scrutiny for good reason, yet parents sign up like crazy for these and other "schools" which can be started by anyone with a high school diploma. It's a mess.

This is what one person did with a year of ESA funds for one of her dc. You can't make this stuff up (unfortunately). And that garden tower? She ended up re-selling it (again, against ESA guidelines/rules). Taxpayers should not be forced to fund stuff like this, and families should not be able to spend taxpayer funds in this way. 😞 $20 curriculum $2700 gaming PC & accessories $1,000 kayak $1,000 Apple watch & airpods $500 essential oils w curriculum $500 garden tower $500 digital calendar $500 LEGO titanic

On a kinder, more calm note... I do appreciate that for families such as Shea's (son wears banana suit), I love reading about options for families/kids that might not otherwise be available. When the ESA in AZ was initially proposed for special needs students, I was 100% for it. It has met a huge need for students who could not receive the services they needed, and it gave tremendous support to those students' families. Beth Lewis' comment about no oversight, accountability, standards, etc. is correct, but she is referencing home education, not homeschooling (and I have had several conversations with her regarding this and continue to post almost daily on the SOS FB page when the term is incorrectly used). I appreciate that the article references that only a few states allow microschools for homeschooling - kind of wish those states had been mentioned specifically...ahem, AZ. Prenda and KaiPod have wreaked havoc in AZ and have been called out and legally challenged for misrepresenting what they offer. Prenda has responded respectfully; KaiPod not so much. These along with too many other businesses do not realize that "homeschool" does not mean the same thing in every state, and the laws are usually ignored because $$$ is at stake. Literally a few hours ago a gal posted about her "Open Enrollement" (literal quote) for her homeschool pre-school. She's wanting ESA parents to sign up. Obviously, she's not familiar with either homeschooling or the ESA, but it's one example of how the perception of homeschooling has changed in a most shocking way and in such a short time. I get really worked up about this because I knew some of the folks who fought for homeschooling to be what it still is in AZ. I heard them speak at our meetings and now see what they foretold would happen come true. And I see the term "homeschool" used for those who want taxpayer funds (only many of them claim the funds are "their" tax monies - like it comes out of their pocket directly) and yet also want to have the title for something which does not get funds. Hopefully I kept that a bit more calm. 🙂

AZ (where I live) has the same rules for homeschooling, although parents/guardians can have/hire non-public instruction but that instruction must take place in the child(ren)'s own home. Otherwise, parents/guardians must be the primary educators. Unfortunately, I have watched with alarm as the ESA expansion has all but obliterated what homeschooling is understood to be in this state, even though absolutely nothing has actually changed for homeschooling! It remains a separate and distinct option, and homeschoolers cannot have an ESA contract. The law, the Handbook, the ESA admins all clearly state this, but politicians, groups, businesses (which advertise "homeschool" services), and ESA families absolutely will not respect the fact that while home education has expanded and is undergoing tremendous growing pains, homeschooling is not part of it all. It is a mess. So now we have families who put their kids in micro schools which are popping up everywhere or who hire their friend's newly graduated high schooler as a "teacher" at an exorbitant hourly rate (with absolutely no way to show the state or the taxpayers who are forced to fund this mess that any instruction is actually happening). We have plethora "homeschoolers" who are not at all homeschooling per AZ law yet who claim the title along with the funding for a program which homeschoolers cannot use. Dare to correct this and you'd better duck, ironically from the very ones who demand respect and support for ESA/home education yet will not respect nor support legal homeschooling (which was around for oodles of years before the ESA ever began). Yeah, I'm kind of ticked off and over all of this. Oh, the stories I could tell about the ESA in Arizona...blatant boasting from those who purchase a $10 workbook so as to meet the 5-subject requirement, and thousands spent on horseback riding lessons, trampoline parks, huge pink fluffy vanity chairs and the vanity with lights and mirror, too. A mom who submitted a "curriculum" for cooking and bought SO many items (which were approved because the system is laughable as far as that goes) and then resold stuff brand new, unused (yes, against the rules, but no one cares). I could scream when I hear folks say they homeschool now in AZ or who say things like, "Oh, you homeschool and get money for it!" No, we don't. We don't put our kids in microschools or pods because that's against the law for homeschoolers. We pay for the tutors we hire and if it's our friend's 17-year old graduate, so be it - it's entirely on us and not the taxpayers. And if we use a $10 workbook and call that education, again so be it. The ESA in AZ had a great initial focus - special needs students who were unable to receive services at their home school. Now it's an almost unfettered program giving families a means to fund their recreational pursuits under the guise of education. And the taxpayers get to fund the bill for this (and for private schools which really is just wrong, imo). Ugh. Sorry...I really get fired up about this. I spend so much time correcting folks on the ESA/home education side and the public school side, I just get so all-fired angry because this ESA thing has nothing to do with homeschooling in our state. For decades, homeschoolers were warned that this was coming and here it is. It's embarrassing because now folks, instead of viewing homeschooling as a positive thing, look askance at me until I assure them that we are indeed homeschooling and not on the public dime. I'm not putting together a curriculum on, say, kayaking so as to fund my family's desire to go out on the lake (and the reselling the kayaks when we're done). OK, I'll be quiet now. Sorry if I went a bit off topic and on a wee bit of a tirade. 🙂

I did a search on this forum and nothing popped up for this topic. I don't game but do spend too much time at my computer, and it's catching up to my wrist/lower arm/elbow. My attempt to read "Best Mouse for Carpal Tunnel" articles resulted in utter confusion. I don't need or want 7 buttons on the mouse! I have one screen, not 3. I don't even know what most of the terms are. I am one who wants as few buttons and options as possible on any kind of device, and I don't want my hand/wrist/arm to hurt. Suggestions, please?

Just sent it via PM. Let me know if it doesn't go through. 🙂

This has to be one of the most misguided and insulting responses I've seen on this board. This has nothing to do with shame (which I don't have) or pearl clutching. Not everyone wants to see others having sex, especially for five minutes. Whatever their reason, it smacks of extreme arrogance to box and label that preference as you have. It is tiresome (imo) for movies to include more sex scenes which are longer and more detailed than ever before. I presented my view in a respectful, non-aggressive way. I didn't even touch on what was "too much" yet you took off with this and projected your own views in a very offensive way.

16yod really wants to continue her French journey. She self-taught using Galore Park then took a year with Sally Barstow and placed very, very high on the national exam. Last year I could not find any resource for her yet now I see Michigan Virtual has an AP option - does anyone have experience with this program? I feel really bad for my girl - there is nothing in our small town for a homeschool student who wants to do AP level work (and CC is out of the question, even if they had French; the content of the classes is decidedly "adult" to an extreme).

I grew up in Los Alamos, NM, but I won't see the movie because of the content I have been told is too much. My dc definitely will not be seeing it (although I do have an entire box dedicated solely to novels and such regarding the Manhattan Project, P.O. Box 1663, etc. My English teacher's uncle was one of the original physicists who lived on The Hill. Fun tidbit: I had my first dance with the guy I would end up dating/marrying in Fuller Lodge (for those who don't know the reference, it's a beautiful building which was used for the boy's ranch and then dining hall, etc. for the scientists and such.

Some of my oldest dc saw it and felt the same. I have no opinion on the movie as I've not seen it, but in downtown Tempe last night there were way too many people wearing awful pink clothes. My favorite was the gal wearing pink underwear. It was...entertaining.

We've always only done stockings for our kids (with a few gifts which don't fit put under the tree) and that's what we've told our young adult/adult dc we'll keep doing. I believe there would be a riot if we did not stuff and hide 13 stockings on Xmas morning! In a 1700 sqft. house, it's amazing that we find new places each year... Anyway, if our dc get married, it's still one stocking for that dc and his/her family, but with things in it for spouse and kiddos. I shop thrift stores all year long for stocking stuffers - just scored 2 pairs of brand new J.Crew ladies' holiday socks at Goodwill for $1/pair! So by the time Xmas morning comes, I'm ready. We've tried to keep Xmas small and stockings helps to that end, plus the tradition of shooing kids out of the house then watching even our 20-somethings race in and look for their stocking is a hoot.

Ugh, this is exactly what I find myself doing. It's draining and I get all caught up in my own head, wondering if I'm missing something or seeing something that isn't actually there. Thanks for the perspectives, everyone. It got to a point I couldn't let this one go and was making myself a bit nuts trying to figure it out, it just didn't sit right with me as a mom.

My brain can't reconcile with something that happened last week, so I am hoping the Hive will help set me straight. My mom is on the NextDoor site which I am also on, yet only post/read 2-3 times/year. I don't get updates or anything, so I don't see posts and I don't think she realizes I'm on there (I don't use my real name). Last week I went to post about my dds wanting side jobs in the neighborhood and at the top of the page is a post by my mom about two aggressive dogs which cornered her in her garage. Some other people indicated that they'd also encountered the dogs in the area where my mom and I live (she is 2 streets up). She was warning others about the animals. But she never warned me directly. She knows my dc are outside playing and walking the neighborhood every day, and she didn't let me know what happened. Not a word about the presence of animals which caused her great concern and fear save to the general area. Does this seem...off? I know there's a lack of love on her part for me/us, but this seems...hateful. And I can't ask her about it because if she purposefully did not warn me and she knows I am aware of that, I might be giving her something I don't want to - a sense of victory, perhaps. Or maybe I'm overthinking this and seeing something that's not there... So maybe this is more a WWYD as a grandparent/parent? Would it occur to you to warn family/friends who are just a couple streets away and have children at home? Would you think that posting on ND would cover family/friends?

btdt - it is so hard. So...so...hard. Sending every bit of hugging vibes your way. It's hard to know we're not alone in how we feel, yet still feel so alone regardless.

Santa Fe, Albuquerque (they have some amazing museums!) and Los Alamos, NM are my top places to visit. Each place has museums and historical sites galore - I could spend a week in Santa Fe and another in Los Alamos alone.

State Farm - significant increase despite long-term policy with no claims and older vehicles. Phone calls yielded nothing so I'll be walking into an office this week and hope for an answer that makes sense.