I'm a little shocked that the scenario of a 27yo woman expecting a baby is being interpreted as if she's 16 with a irresponsible teen Baby Daddy, unable to find work and support or learn how to be a mother, accepted into a church as a young person who has made a mistake, needing to move home for her mom to help...this does not make any sense to me. I mean, I know she's not married or where she wants to be with her career, but 27 is no spring chicken. Not quite middle aged or old, but three years from 30 is definitely an adult.

I didn't pick up anything in the OP about doubting sis's good intentions. It's a little baffling that she's acting unaware of the rift with mom, but it didn't seem to me that the OP thought she was bad or wrong for just wanting to spend time together as a family. I thought the issue was how to avoid the "big happy family" thing without cutting off sis when they would both like a relationship.

Perfect. I'm in a very similar scenario and all my RSVPs sound like this. There is no way I'm letting anyone back me into a corner as to why (or attempt to scrounge ammunition for gossip), so I never give reasons. Just "Can't make it, but hope to see you when you're in town."

Lately, since I'm nearing mid-40s, I absolutely hate telling anyone about my lupus. Something's changed, since I was a teen, twenties, and thirties with the very same disease. People seem to treat middle-aged women with autoimmune diseases as if they are either going to drop dead tomorrow, or as if they are being lazy, with not much in-between! I'm either too frail and it has to be mentioned every ten seconds, or I'm not tough because I don't do XYZ (from oils to exercises). I've decided to just be generically middle-aged, and let them wonder why I am doing whatever I'm doing. LOL I don't even explain the cane anymore. "Oh, some people use canes sometimes." That's it!

How many family members? Could everyone fly or drive out to see them this summer, as a once-in-a-lifetime family reunion?

Slightly leaning this way, myself... I've been pretty vocal about abusive, controlling parents of homeschoolers, because I have sadly too much experience in that area. But you know what, if Jake wants zero conflict or drama with his folks, you and your daughter see them as good parents going through a bad patch...even though they're Doing It Wrong there should maybe be another approach here. Counseling. Friends stepping in with, "Ward and June, you've been through a lot and Jake has been part of your adulting team, but are you ready to consider that he's done his part and should be moving toward independence now?" Give them a chance to double down, OR wake up. If it's at all possible that they are stuck in a negative loop and don't even realize that Jake has hit another stage, and Jake doesn't want to risk cutting ties (or risk homelessness), then maybe what Jake really needs and wants is for someone to help him advocate for change. If that fails, then Jake will have to consider more drastic measures, and all the prior assumptions made in this thread would become applicable at that time.

And failing to teach him, yet requiring him to teach his siblings, withholding his diploma and keeping him from getting a drivers license, and somehow conveying to him that he will be kicked out if he protests anything. There's not much of an "other side to the story" for this. And I, at least, will not be likely to listen to homeschool parents talking about worthless children who can't be allowed to grow up. Truth is, even if you have very little doubt that your child will succeed without your control, he does have rights as an adult. He gets to grow up and be an awful adult if he wants to...but he might surprise you. There's no justification for denying your adult child education, documents, and financial freedom.

A lot of homeschoolers are only doing coops. Even though the coop science class is once a week, the math enrichment is sporadic and spread over two coops, etc., they do not actually teach their children on the home days. Sarah McKenzie (Read Aloud Revival) explained several years ago that this is how she homeschooled - they have Morning Meeting every day, and then the rest of their education is whatever they get from coops. I don't follow her; I have no idea if she has kept this up as her kids have gotten older. But at the time, I noticed a lot of younger homeschool moms commented that they did the same. (Could I have some points or gold stars or something, for posting this without judgmental commentary?)

I've been reading. There is some great stuff over there! OP, maybe you could pull a few threads and send them to Jake. The advice is generally sound, plus the conversations might help him frame the situation more clearly.

What is the definition of embezzlement? I feel that it's probably a crime for parents to take their adult child's money without permission, including if they got the child's "permission" through coercion and threats. I guess if Jake doesn't want any punishment or consequences for his parents, which is why he's not interested in CPS or help for his siblings, he would probably be emphatically against charging them with stealing from him...I guess I'm not saying that he should be coached to do so, but I wonder if he understands that this financial situation is more than just inconvenient for him. It's another illegal and dishonest thing that his parents do.

I don't really understand your tone. This post seems sarcastic or angry, somehow? Not sure what you're getting at. People are just saying that calling CPS, as an 18yo, will not help him much, and it might drive his parents even further underground with abuse of his siblings. It may be more useful to get him free and on his feet, separated from the home, and then see if he's able to do anything for the younger kids. If he called CPS concerning them, I don't think anyone would blame him or tell him not to bother. He was in the home and he knows better than anyone what's really happening. But we were asked how to help him, and our experience says that CPS is probably not the most direct route.

My state, and the home state of the students I have tried to help, all have these laws on the books. What these families are doing IS illegal. That doesn't mean there are sufficient resources to investigate and hold accountable. It would seem that a simple investigation that might resolve in nothing more than a follow up to see if there's improvement, with a consequence of public school enrollment if they fail, should be possible. But it's not. Not when the children are considered to be fed, clothed, housed, clean and safe. Resources (from personnel to court time) would have to be diverted from the children who are beaten, tortured, dirty, hungry, abandoned...if I were the "system," I would make the same choice.

I hope this isn't the case for Jake, but there are homeschool parents who do not get birth certificates or social security for their children. They don't do healthcare, either. So the children have no legal identity, and no selective service letter comes to the 18yo boys. I hope Jake's job is mainstream and legit, with all the proper paperwork completed. But I have known of a situation in which "likeminded" religious, homeschool parents hired other homeschool families' undocumented kids to work in their own businesses, and the families arranged this for the purpose of circumventing the legal paperwork.

This is true. Psychological and emotional abuse, and educational neglect, will not get much of a result. In most areas, CPS is overwhelmed with physical abuse and drug related cases. If a child is in a reasonably clean and safe home and has enough to eat, they are not going to have time for "just" their development and future being ruined. I was told this by a social worker whom I consulted, one of the times when I was asked for help with an educational neglect situation. I was told that an adult friend or relative should intervene and help the teen get straightened out, or support and encourage them to hang in there until they turned 18 and then help them. This was said with sympathy and understanding; the social worker thought it would be better if I understood that CPS would not be able to help, so a call to them would probably only drive the family further underground and make it harder for friends and relatives to have access. A high school principal told me that if a teen had been locked out or shut out of the system, the "fixes" should also come from outside the system. You can't put a 15yo on a 2nd grade level in an elementary school, for example. It's illegal as well as inappropriate. And an over-sheltered and controlled, homeschooled 18yo is going to experience trauma and shock in a homeless shelter situation, even though that shelter and help exist for anyone who has fallen through the cracks. So private individuals need to somehow step up, if at all possible, to help these abused and neglected "homeschooled" children bridge to the outside world. Nobody has been able to tell me what can be done to the parents. Nobody knows.

@alisoncooks is barking up the right tree, I believe: Before anyone helps, it would be ideal to ascertain how far the young man is willing to go, to be free. Is he ready to walk away entirely, even if it means couch surfing and risking homelessness? And the question of whether he'd really leave the little kids behind is a huge question. It's the same as for anyone leaving an abusive home situation. Several of us on these forums (and former members) have helped homeschooled teens better (or escape from) their circumstances. It is SO precarious and fraught. Best to have all the discussion and planning possible before intervening. If that's not how it works out, at the least, the adults trying to help should decide how far they're willing to commit, if it all blows up in everyone's faces. Would you be the go-to house, or would you be the one to help transport him to relatives, or would you be willing to testify, or would you fear retaliation from the family...I'm not saying to look the other way. (I didn't.) Just count the cost up front, and then stand by whatever you decide. If he can't access the documents at home without his parents' knowledge, I would suggest getting away from the home and then beginning the process of fighting for his papers. If he's in a non-accountability state, I think @Garga has an idea worth pursuing - could you help him figure out what he did, create a transcript, and print or order a diploma? I'd consider the money his parents have stolen to be gone, and the other necessary fights to be more important. Just open a new bank account. He's got to get out of the home, get his documents together, and go from there. As long as he's in the home, they are in control, plus they have the added "weapons" of the guilt trip over the siblings and whatever garbage they've taught him over the years about religion and parental rights. If he is really ready to risk it all to be free, it's time to pack a suitcase and go. If he's in a high COL area, he may need to move to a lower COL if that's what it takes to find support and live cheaply. He really needs relatives or friends to step up and give him a place to stay, and some help getting his life sorted out. He is going to be upset and broke for awhile. It may be that part of the further price he'll have to pay for his parents' abuse and neglect will be to leave the area and everything he's ever known, if the only help is far away. If he has no relatives or friends, then he will need direction to a homeless shelter and various types of aid in his community. But services for an able-bodied 18yo single man are going to be scarce. Personally, if I knew of this situation and I was confident that Jake was ready to strike out, I would take him in. Our house is bursting at the seams, so he might have to start with a tent in the backyard for the summer, but I would offer that before suggesting a shelter. Or if I truly couldn't do it, I would commit to giving everything I had to find someone who could. I would probably start with social workers and churches, and make those calls myself.

About two years ago, I stopped believing anyone who promised to do anything, ever. I prepare as if they are going to flake, so I can manage for my own family, and just hope to be happily surprised if nobody flakes. They always flake. In my son's new community theater group, which is supported mainly by parent volunteers, there are three moms who *never* flake. They are wonderful. They don't know this, but in my mind I have attached myself to them as if they were blood relatives, and I stand ready to lead, follow, or die, throughout our entire theater experience. If I could write them sonnets, I would. Meeting them has been like finding a trio of Mary Poppinses in a world full of Dufflepods.

No experience, but here's what I found from looking on the website: 1. It's Evan-Moor, on some level, which makes it possibly more respectable than other virtual programs. 2. You can sign up for a free "Lincoln Empowered Course;" they would just want your address. You could see exactly what it's like - and maybe that would satisfy your charter as "giving it a try" (without actually subjecting your child to it). If you know that online learning is not what you want for your child, yet you feel bound to the charter for various reasons, please continue to ask questions here! I see you are a new member here. Many of us have homeschooled our children without these programs and without charters. We can help you, if your problem is finding materials that you feel comfortable teaching, or if your problem is the cost of materials. There are actually free materials available, and teaching methods that are very suitable and learnable, for homeschooling parents.

No, I don't like that at all. I know too many teens who suffer crippling anxiety from having been made to worry about numbers all the time, related to school. They're sold the concept that if they don't get these grades and make these scores, they won't get into college, and they won't have a good job. I don't think children can really understand concepts like averages, and how it's OK not to be "best," and how nobody else can tell you that your hardest work is not living up to your potential (as defined by scores), and how you might not know who you are or what you like until you're older...we have seen the outcome in the first generation of the overly tested students. I would remove a child from the influence of a teacher who deliberately teaches him to worry about the numbers on somebody else's arbitrary measuring scale for his life.

I am not familiar with Omnibus, but if you'd like an integrated, advanced option that might be a better fit, you might consider Tapestry of Grace. It's a four year cycle, which would solve your high school problem. Also, it would be very easy to keep your boys somewhat together with TOG - they could combine with the logic/dialectic level for your elder son's 9th grade year, or you could do some of the discussion time together even if they're on different levels. The weekly topics are the same. If you are finishing modern history now, then you would probably start back with Ancients (which is year one of Tapestry) this fall. You can see the books at bookshelfcentral.com; just search by year and level. There are samples of the week plans at TOG's website. Edited to add that I don't work for TOG or represent them in any way. But I did use the curriculum with two of my homeschool graduates. They were students of Latin, Greek, logic, and classical world history and literature before starting the program, and they feel that TOG was excellent preparation for college.

I just want to represent the dysfunctional families out there...I know from experience, and from years of history knowing other hot messes of families, that any attempt to stop the dysfunction (from any side) is guaranteed to be a mess. It has to be. There's no normal, mature and supportive leave-taking when everything leading up to the moment has been a mess. I mean, if you've grown up as I have, and as sadly too many families have, be thankful that there was no gunfire or calls to the police. I'm not being flippant. I'm saying if a person has never gone through trauma in the family of origin - and it's always lots of people's fault, no sense at all in trying to parse it out from here - you just can't understand that the why's and the reconciliation are necessarily Tomorrow's Business. Today's business is for Jenny and family to help the daughter. I hope there's somebody helping the parents, but that is not the role that fate has allowed Jenny. She is doing what she can. It may take B another 20 years to begin to understand her upbringing. She needs peace for today. Help to move forward. Patience with the pace, however slow. Wise friends who can help her find some professional help. Genuine understanding and family reconciliation may also require professional help, and it may be one step forward, two steps back, when/if it does happen.

I disagree, and I'm not taking instructions from you...? That is what I saw, and you saw something different. But there is no call to tell each other what to think or what to say, again, just my opinion. We could just speak for ourselves.

Yael, I agree about researching the online radicalization of youth into right wing and incel groups. I hope that isn't happening but something to be aware of. I am so sorry for all the extended problems. You are doing so much to tackle it all, and you are trying to keep perspective and balance. I'm glad you got pm's that were helpful and I really hope you get some answers and guidance from the professionals.

Seconding this, and the other posters saying the same. It's not really about you, OP, whether or not a group of experienced homeschooling parents feel they should tell the truth. It is true that a nine-year-old child with special learning needs should not be left at home with YouTube instead of being in school. Responsible and researched homeschooling, public school, or private school are the options. These have supervising adults and educational materials. We don't even know this woman, and we're certainly not going to coddle her second-hand; we are going to say what we believe. It doesn't mean we think ps is terrific and she has no legitimate reason to want to homeschool. We're not stupid or naïve. But a bad ps situation, if that's what it is, does not make homeschooling possible. Move on to something else. Yes, "it can be difficult to manage things as a single parent!" Shaking my head. How cruel and callous to suggest that her priorities are wrong and she needs to consider changes in her "lifestyle!" She is working 50 hours per week to support and raise her child, because she is dedicated to him! What in the world...? She can be kindly instructed that leaving him home while she works instead of sending him to school is not a good decision, and she can hopefully be assisted in finding advocates at the school (or transferring schools, or whatever)...but I see NO reason to question her lifestyle, priorities, or dedication to her child! What is she going to do, stop working to be a full-time hs'ing mom? And they will live where and eat what? She can "consider her lifestyle and work schedule" all day long, but that hardly provides for her family. You are offering the same kind of suggestion as, "Let them eat cake," or if you like the Bible, "How sad you are poor, why don't you eat something and get yourself warmed up from the cold," which do not help at all.

Just wanted to say that I didn't know whether to use the sad response or the THANK YOU! So you are being quoted. Thank you. There are those of us who are have clawed our way up to middle class (on paper), who know that our pensions, etc. are likely to be a house of cards, and we are using all the rest for health care as we go. (And that's with the "best" insurance available to commoners-not-Congress). I don't even know what to say to people who don't understand that a single medical event can wipe out a family's wealth for a generation in this country, and how those with children with special needs will likely never retire. In other words, I have nothing to say to people who can't read the news, because these scenarios of lost pensions and medical poverty are daily topics now, in this country.

I don't understand how lying in bed for a year after being sick, followed by antisocial and self-destructive behavior, can possibly sound very simple to you. "Evil companions corrupt good morals," but I'd like to meet the neighborhood thug who can make a previously healthy boy lie abed and soak up god-knows-what on the internet for a year before acting out in a fairly terrifying way. This history makes me and almost* all the other people think, "This is obviously complex, and the family really needs some local, professional help, as they treat their situation as an absolute emergency. Maybe reconsider a traveling dad and holy days off and how to just keep going to the high school where he threatened people, at least through the acute part of this crisis." *The rest think that if he's given a GED and his story is whitewashed enough to fool a recruiter, the military could discipline this all right out of him.