Help me understand this bad reaction to improved sleep

[MamaBearTeacher]

A couple of weeks ago my severe special needs son was not sleeping, either not sleeping at all at night, or else only sleeping 4-5 hours.  He was happy all day though.  He did appear very wired and overly excited and I think that created a vicious cycle that stopped him from sleeping but he was happy and did not cry at all.  The past week or so he has been sleeping about 12 hours every night.  He is mostly happy but has had really bad period of about half an hour once or more each day where he screams, moans and hits himself.  I ask him later to point to what was bothering him and he points to the word 'senses'.  His senses bother him all the time so I guess at these times they are horrifically worse.  

 

But, why are his senses worse with more sleep?  It doesn't make sense!

 

This is not the first time my son has had a paradoxical reaction.  For years, he was very constipated.  That problem is much better now, but he would go up to 11 days without a bowel movement and 6 days on average.  Whenever he was constipated he was a happy, serene, well-behaved boy.  Whenever his bowel movements got more frequent he became really upset, moan very loudly and hit himself all day.  

 

He has also reacted really badly to a lot of supplements that were supposed to help him.

 

I HATE seeing him suffer.  If you have any ideas or thoughts on this, let me know as they might help.

[Ottakee]

Might be far fetched but do you think his moods are cycling? The not sleeping, wired, very happy as a mania/hypomania and then the sleeping 12 hours a day and irritable periods as more depression? I know one of mine didn't show typical depression but more irritability.

[MamaBearTeacher]

Might be far fetched but do you think his moods are cycling? The not sleeping, wired, very happy as a mania/hypomania and then the sleeping 12 hours a day and irritable periods as more depression? I know one of mine didn't show typical depression but more irritability.

 

Hmm ... I don't know.  Something to think about.  Thank you.

[dsmith]

I see this very frequently with my son with Asperger's. He has periods of less sleep where he is very happy, very hyper, definitely could be considered hypomanic. Other times he will sleep 10 - 14 hours a night, be gloomy, irritable and depressed. He has a lot of days that are just regular in-between those two states. I've often wondered if it is related to the Prozac he's taken for years. I don't remember him being like that before he started taking it. For a while I wondered if he was bipolar, too. 

Might be far fetched but do you think his moods are cycling? The not sleeping, wired, very happy as a mania/hypomania and then the sleeping 12 hours a day and irritable periods as more depression? I know one of mine didn't show typical depression but more irritability.

 

[Ottakee]

I see this very frequently with my son with Asperger's. He has periods of less sleep where he is very happy, very hyper, definitely could be considered hypomanic. Other times he will sleep 10 - 14 hours a night, be gloomy, irritable and depressed. He has a lot of days that are just regular in-between those two states. I've often wondered if it is related to the Prozac he's taken for years. I don't remember him being like that before he started taking it. For a while I wondered if he was bipolar, too.

I am no expert but meds like Prozac can trigger cycling in children.

[dsmith]

His neurologist did lower the dose when I asked him about it. It did lessen the severity and frequency. We tried weaning him off, but it was a disaster, so he is on the lowest effective dose right now, 15mg, and he is over 6ft and just big. 

 

I am no expert but meds like Prozac can trigger cycling in children.

 

[MamaBearTeacher]

My son is not on medication. So for him, the problem is coming from within his own body.

[Katy]

Does he have any signs of autoimmune issues?  I had a doctor explain that sometimes with things like that you can function better during stress or illness because it forces the body to focus on the stressor rather than itself.

[MamaBearTeacher]

Does he have any signs of autoimmune issues? I had a doctor explain that sometimes with things like that you can function better during stress or illness because it forces the body to focus on the stressor rather than itself.

Autoimmune? Probably! Though we don't have any diagnosis or anything. Your last sentence sounds really true.

[nixpix5]

Does he have any signs of autoimmune issues? I had a doctor explain that sometimes with things like that you can function better during stress or illness because it forces the body to focus on the stressor rather than itself.

This is such a true statement. My ASD kiddo is serene, focused and appears neurotypical when sick, especially when he has a fever. He cycles and has never been on any meds. He will have about 7-10 days each month where he sleeps longer and his food aversions kick up and he complains about his senses. Right before this happens he almost seems manic but not in the true sense of bipolar. He is in a happy mood, calm, engaged, sleeping less and eating more. He seems to be more flexible and tolerates change. I have been making a calendar of this for over 3 years and it makes the most incredible data. It literally looks like a woman's menstrual cycle the way it plays out. Nobody seems to be able to give us any answers about it but it is fascinating.

[displace]

Maybe he's getting a minor cold or virus?

[kiwik]

Are you sure you have it the right way round? Maybe whatever is causing the problem is also causing the sleep.

[MamaBearTeacher]

This is such a true statement. My ASD kiddo is serene, focused and appears neurotypical when sick, especially when he has a fever. He cycles and has never been on any meds. He will have about 7-10 days each month where he sleeps longer and his food aversions kick up and he complains about his senses. Right before this happens he almost seems manic but not in the true sense of bipolar. He is in a happy mood, calm, engaged, sleeping less and eating more. He seems to be more flexible and tolerates change. I have been making a calendar of this for over 3 years and it makes the most incredible data. It literally looks like a woman's menstrual cycle the way it plays out. Nobody seems to be able to give us any answers about it but it is fascinating.

This sounds similar to what we go through but I have not always seen sleep factor into this. Does it correlate at all with your cycle or any female's in your household? Does it correlate at all with the full moon/moon cycle?

[Amy in NH]

A couple of weeks ago my severe special needs son was not sleeping, either not sleeping at all at night, or else only sleeping 4-5 hours. He was happy all day though. He did appear very wired and overly excited and I think that created a vicious cycle that stopped him from sleeping but he was happy and did not cry at all. The past week or so he has been sleeping about 12 hours every night. He is mostly happy but has had really bad period of about half an hour once or more each day where he screams, moans and hits himself. I ask him later to point to what was bothering him and he points to the word 'senses'. His senses bother him all the time so I guess at these times they are horrifically worse.

 

But, why are his senses worse with more sleep? It doesn't make sense!

 

This is not the first time my son has had a paradoxical reaction. For years, he was very constipated. That problem is much better now, but he would go up to 11 days without a bowel movement and 6 days on average. Whenever he was constipated he was a happy, serene, well-behaved boy. Whenever his bowel movements got more frequent he became really upset, moan very loudly and hit himself all day.

 

He has also reacted really badly to a lot of supplements that were supposed to help him.

 

I HATE seeing him suffer. If you have any ideas or thoughts on this, let me know as they might help.

There is a relationship between anxiety/stress hormones and movement of the bowels. Stress hormones also enhance the senses.

[MamaBearTeacher]

There is a relationship between anxiety/stress hormones and movement of the bowels. Stress hormones also enhance the senses.

What can be done to lower stress hormones on a physical level?!!

 

It is obvious that he has a lot of stress but it is coming from within and from his reaction to what his senses encounter. We don't put a lot of demands on him and things like meditation, exercise do not do much for him and are hard to accomplish. We use soft music, car rides and a few other things that help, but really, they help minimally. He is one very stressed-out boy!

[KungFuPanda]

Could a growth spurt be causing the extra sleep needs and the additional stress?

[Amy in NH]

Anxiety is an irrational physical reaction that includes a release of large amounts of stress hormones, which in turn affect sensory inputs.

 

You said he is not on any medication.

 

When I was basically non-functioning due to anxiety I went to the doctor and got pharmaceutical help that allowed my body to block the stress hormones so that I could develop coping techniques.  I was on anti-anxiety medication for about 18 months, and have been off it now for ~5 years.  My brain had a break and was able to rewire itself during that time so that I no longer experience the constant dumping of huge amounts of stress hormones into my body.  I also learned how to properly use meditation during that time, and now I can manage my occasional lower-levels of anxiety.

 

My sister has had to maintain use of medication to control her anxiety over a long term.  That's just the way it is for some people.  She went from basically non-functioning in her 20s to a successful life where she can achieve her goals starting in her 30s when she finally got her anxiety under control.

 

TMI:   I'm not as irregular as your son, but not regular either.  I still experience some release of stress hormones/feelings of anxiety when I need to have a bowel movement, but that is all relieved after I use the toilet.  I also get increasing constipation each month that is in sync with my menstrual cycle and is relieved at the start of my period.  Now that I am aware of these issues, I can work through the anxiety and take better care of myself (body and mind).

 

 

[MamaBearTeacher]

Anxiety is an irrational physical reaction that includes a release of large amounts of stress hormones, which in turn affect sensory inputs.

 

You said he is not on any medication.

 

When I was basically non-functioning due to anxiety I went to the doctor and got pharmaceutical help that allowed my body to block the stress hormones so that I could develop coping techniques. I was on anti-anxiety medication for about 18 months, and have been off it now for ~5 years. My brain had a break and was able to rewire itself during that time so that I no longer experience the constant dumping of huge amounts of stress hormones into my body. I also learned how to properly use meditation during that time, and now I can manage my occasional lower-levels of anxiety.

 

My sister has had to maintain use of medication to control her anxiety over a long term. That's just the way it is for some people. She went from basically non-functioning in her 20s to a successful life where she can achieve her goals starting in her 30s when she finally got her anxiety under control.

 

TMI: I'm not as irregular as your son, but not regular either. I still experience some release of stress hormones/feelings of anxiety when I need to have a bowel movement, but that is all relieved after I use the toilet. I also get increasing constipation each month that is in sync with my menstrual cycle and is relieved at the start of my period. Now that I am aware of these issues, I can work through the anxiety and take better care of myself (body and mind).

See, my son was the opposite in this regard. He was happy except when he was having regular bowel movements. The unhappiness wouldn't come right after the bowel movement either, but rather th next day. He was happy when constipated.

 

I like what you say about your brain being able to retire itself after some time on medication. I do not think this son has anxiety though. My middle son has some anxiety. But my oldest, the one I am talking about, it's like he cringes, like he is in pain and then he moans really really loud and hits himself. It doesn't look like anxiety to anyone. I don't know what medication would be appropriate. Also, I do not know how he would react because he has reacted so badly to so many things and that really scares me.

[Amy in NH]

Right, for some people it is the movement of the intestines and/or bowels (or immediate need to do so) that causes the release of anxiety hormones or a sudden feeling of anxiety. Anxiety hormones overstimulate the sensory organs for a fight or flight response. It can take hours for the adrenaline and cortisol to leave the system. If his complaint is sensory overload, which does not improve for hours, he may be experiencing anxiety or excess stress hormones.

 

When I first started taking the anti-anxiety medication, I could feel the rush of the stress hormone release in my abdomen each morning shortly after waking, but the medication stopped the anxiety reaction in my head.

 

I hope that makes more sense.

[kbutton]

I get weird reactions to food that trigger anxiety and histamine responses (but I am technically not allergic to any food items). My reactions can range from immediate to very delayed, and it can mess with all kinds of things, including GI stuff. I can imagine your son's build-up of stress being so big that the release creates a huge effect of some kind like Amy in NH is stating. The amount of time you are talking about him being constipated is a pretty big one, so there's a lot of time for stress to build. He might also really process his discomfort from constipation as being somewhat normal because it's so common. I sometimes feel worse after a migraine than during it--it's like I imagine a hangover would be like. I have varying amounts of pain and nausea (both of which usually respond to OTC pain meds), but afterward, I get upset stomach and GI issues that can subside quickly or take all day, and my gut is just angry for a while after it subsides. 

 

Would he benefit from some sensory strategies when he starts to feel this way? Deep pressure, etc.? I'm assuming you've tried, but I don't know if it's "enough," or if he might need different strategies for this than for more typical sensory issues. 

There have been some recent threads on the Learning Challenges board about interoception that involves a book (and maybe some release techniques that are not the same as meditation). You might want to check them out.  

[MamaBearTeacher]

Right, for some people it is the movement of the intestines and/or bowels (or immediate need to do so) that causes the release of anxiety hormones or a sudden feeling of anxiety. Anxiety hormones overstimulate the sensory organs for a fight or flight response. It can take hours for the adrenaline and cortisol to leave the system. If his complaint is sensory overload, which does not improve for hours, he may be experiencing anxiety or excess stress hormones.

 

When I first started taking the anti-anxiety medication, I could feel the rush of the stress hormone release in my abdomen each morning shortly after waking, but the medication stopped the anxiety reaction in my head.

 

I hope that makes more sense.

We slowly had him having bowel movements more often and now he goes every second day. It does not seem to be causing him stress but his senses seem worse than when he was very constipated.

[sassenach]

My son with CP and a seizure disorder cycles between low sleep/happy/responsive and lots of sleep/unhappy/unresponsive. Seizures tend to be higher in the manic phases and lower in the sleepy phases. I've always chalked this up to having an abnormal brain that probably cycles like a bipolar brain.

 

I'm sorry he's so unhappy. That's hard to watch.

[MamaBearTeacher]

I get weird reactions to food that trigger anxiety and histamine responses (but I am technically not allergic to any food items). My reactions can range from immediate to very delayed, and it can mess with all kinds of things, including GI stuff. I can imagine your son's build-up of stress being so big that the release creates a huge effect of some kind like Amy in NH is stating. The amount of time you are talking about him being constipated is a pretty big one, so there's a lot of time for stress to build. He might also really process his discomfort from constipation as being somewhat normal because it's so common. I sometimes feel worse after a migraine than during it--it's like I imagine a hangover would be like. I have varying amounts of pain and nausea (both of which usually respond to OTC pain meds), but afterward, I get upset stomach and GI issues that can subside quickly or take all day, and my gut is just angry for a while after it subsides.

 

Would he benefit from some sensory strategies when he starts to feel this way? Deep pressure, etc.? I'm assuming you've tried, but I don't know if it's "enough," or if he might need different strategies for this than for more typical sensory issues.

There have been some recent threads on the Learning Challenges board about interoception that involves a book (and maybe some release techniques that are not the same as meditation). You might want to check them out.

Thanks. This makes sense. what helps when he is really upset is to take him somewhere else for a change of scene, music sometimes, car rides sometimes or frozen cucumbers.

 

I will read about interoception. I have not heard if it before.