luckymom Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 If you found that your dc had taken the TM, photocopied the answers, used it to get "100%" on assignments, accepted all the kudos for a job well done, hid the evidence and only admitted it after being caught, what would you do? What would the consequences be? This dc has cheated before and was "sorry" and said it would not happen again and begged for another chance. The evidence shows that the same dc proceeded to cheat again, several times, right after that. As parents who uphold TRUTH and discuss the need for trustworthy behavior with our dc, we are very sad, dissapointed, and fearful; this dc keeps exhibiting this kind of behavior and has been caught lying, stealing, and cheating before. DC is 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 No words of wisdom for you, but I'm sorry you have to deal with this. You must be so upset and frustrated. :grouphug: Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 First, teacher's manuals are put in an undisclosed location to be used only by an adult or under strict supervision. (I know how hard this is at home.) Second, all the material from that book must be proven as mastered or repeated. This means retaking tests or taking tests to prove that they have mastered the material. Kid doesn't remember, but claims they knew how then; tough luck kid, we don't know what you did and didn't do. From this point on, you are responsible for keeping the answers/tm's out of reach. I have also used tomato staking for lying/cheating. It always works pretty well for absolutely all problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbiec Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I think I would question the child as to "why" they felt the need to cheat? Didn't want to study (sluggard) ~ Hate the subject ~ The subject is hard ~ Afraid of disapproval ~ etc ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Our first year (9th grade) ds cheated by looking at the answers in the back of his Jacob's Algebra. I cut them out, and, since I couldn't resell the book for its maximum value, I made him work it off and pay me back. He lost my trust for practically the rest of the 3 years of high school. I would definitely find out why he cheated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugs Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 It might be a bit harsh but you can let him know that he is welcome to repeat the class. This is a sad situation. My daughter did it in 2nd grade and I made her write out "I will not cheat" a few dozen times (It's different for a 12 year old.). Unfortunately, because she has also lied as an older child she knows I am easy to question her integrity. She is getting better. It may help him to know how this kind of behavior can manifest in adult life. You know, if you think you can get away with it on tests then maybe on taxes, or engineering computations, or plagerism, etc. I look forward to other responses/advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) If the answers are in the back of the book, yes take them out. That's like begging them to look.:glare: If it's from the teachers manual, and they went through all that trouble to photo copy them and take credit, I would buy another publishers curriculum of the same grade level and it would be a fast and hard lesson of SUMMER SCHOOL. I would want to know why, laziness, not- confident, to hard, because they could. Obviously, if my child showed remorse and admitted it was too difficult, and I believed them , maybe I would not do summer school;)...I like my summers off. Edited March 30, 2009 by Pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I have also used tomato staking for lying/cheating. It always works pretty well for absolutely all problems. After all the talk lately of tomato staking, this was the first thing that popped into my mind. Sorry, what a bummer. Go immediately and confiscate all the TM's.:sad: Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajott Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 My kids don't cheat because I don't put them in a position to need to know the right answers. I don't really test. I give tests sometimes and I score them for my own edification, but I don't record those grades...however I don't need to for my state requirements. I'm not sure what I woud do if "grades" really made a difference. I would probably have my child take the tests that come with another curriculum and they would learn what it is like to have a timed and proctored test. When any of my kids have been caught in lies, they get an earful about trust and that w/o trust there really isn't anything worth having. They then lose a lot of the priveledges that they have earned thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymom Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 the TMS were not readily available. DC had to work to get them, copy them, and use the copies. It was a lot of work and had dc used that time to do the math it would have been done right. DC lolligags A LOT - takes hours to do one math assignment, hands in sloppy/incomplete work, routinely stops working on task at hand and starts doing something else. When we insisted on the assignment being completed correctly and on time, dc started cheating on schoolwork so that privileges could be kept. DC did not come forward with the truth but was caught - AGAIN - and gave the same story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Dc would be starting the programming over again, after a sweep to make certain that no answer keys remained anywhere in the house. Copier would be kept under lock and key. Ditto for teachers' manuals. Work would be completed after regular school hours, on weekends, and during summer vacation time until completed.... It is quite possible that additional work would be assigned, as well, to make certain that understanding of all points was crystal clear. Work would be completed in sight of parental control units, even if that means schlepping around and sitting on the floor, etc., while parent has to complete other tasks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Unfortunately, we had to do this. I had to make my son start over in his math book. It was not pretty and put him significantly behind our goals. Plus he had lost priveledges as well as took over a some of my chores to make up for my extra supervision time. For my son, he was truly contrite and admitted that he lacked the self-control and felt overwhelmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 My son went through a period of doing similar things. It was pretty easy for us to figure out what he had done though because he just put the answer to multistep problems (where there should have been some intermediate steps) and they were *all* right. Not normal. Anyway, he had to redo everything. If he had been doing it for months he would have had to redo the entire course. Perhaps with a different curriculum. Though he hasn't done this in a long time--and he has had the opportunity--when it did happen it was for the same reason. He had a time limit, too much to do (in his estimation), and something to lose. What has helped here with the taking forever with assignments is medication. That is, frankly, the only thing that has really helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy in Va Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I tend to agree with the other opinions expressed here. However, if he were my son, I would also point out that whatever his reasons were for doing this (feeling overwhelmed, not knowing the material, not wanting to let you down, wanting more free time, whatever), they are nothing more than exactly that - reasons - an explanation. Not an excuse. His reason(s) for doing this are something that perhaps you may need to take into condsideration as a family; but again, they do not excuse his actions. As I always tell my dss, "That's an explanation, not an excuse. When you do "fill in the blank" it breaks down the trust we have. Your word and your honor are something that no one can take away from you; but it is something that you can stomp all over and throw out with the trash. If I can't trust you with something as simple as this, how am I going to be able to trust you when it comes to bigger things - wanting to drive the car, going out with friends, etc. - these are all things you are going to want to do sooner than you realize." Sorry to get on my soap box, I think you get the idea. The other issue, that has probably crossed your mind but in case it hasn't, is in half the time it has taken your son to reach the tender age of 12 - he will be 18. I think I would be pointing out to my kids - "What do you think an employer would do if you did something similar to this?" Just my 2 cents. I wish you luck. It is always easier to give advice than it is to follow it. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I tend to agree with the other opinions expressed here. However, if he were my son, I would also point out that whatever his reasons were for doing this (feeling overwhelmed, not knowing the material, not wanting to let you down, wanting more free time, whatever), they are nothing more than exactly that - reasons - an explanation. Not an excuse. His reason(s) for doing this are something that perhaps you may need to take into condsideration as a family; but again, they do not excuse his actions. I don't think anyone was excusing the behavior, nor advocating not giving consequences. However, understanding why they did it can go a long way in how to deal with the real problem. Often, misbehavior is a symptom of another problem. In our case, it was that he was overwhelmed and needed more parental coaching on how to manage his time as well as understand the material (he had been self-teaching for several years and only recently started running into problems.) This helped us see that we needed to make changes to our homeschool structure in addition to imposing consequences for the cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 This helped us see that we needed to make changes to our homeschool structure in addition to imposing consequences for the cheating. I think that's a good idea. Maybe he does need more teacher guidance, and he may not even realize it. Whatever you decide, I encourage you to be sorry that he gave in to the sin of temptation but not to label him as a child who cheats. During the middle years, kids "try on" all sorts of personalities and cast them off just as quickly. You don't want him to decide that that one thing defines who he is. Personally, I'd express that I am very sorry that he has to repeat a whole course this summer because he gave in to a major temptation like that. I'd explain that in the future he will face many more dangerous temptations and you need to help him develop strength of character now, in order to protect him all his life. Knowing me, I'd probably add that as a human being, it was going to be hard for me to really trust him for a while. But otherwise I'd drop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 If this happened in my house, the child would have to repeat the course. Since the course is math the child would not be "promoted" to the next grade until the requirements were finished. The consequence making said child unable to participate in certain field trips or certain co op programs or other things that follow grade level as a guideline. Said child would start now and have no spring break or summer break until the course was finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I recommend TM under absolute lockdown from now on. As for punishment, I think that repeating the course from where he began cheating is appropriate. I wouldn't tolerate lollygagging either. That behavior gives him time to get into trouble. I would be in the same room having him work on the problems and every 15 min he would have to stop and give me the answers he had worked. I had to use this method to show mine how to stay on task and speed up the process. This also will keep him from cheating. You'll have to do this more than a few times. It will have to be a consistent part of your homeschool routine if you want to change his patterns. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I'm so sorry this happened, my DD did this and in her case she was very sorry, her conscience bothered her so bad, she started losing sleep and couldn't eat so she had to tell me. I did make her start the course over from the beginning and she lost privileges, she wasn't on punishment for as long as one of the other kids because she did come to me. I do make sure now to check all of her work and she has to sit at the table with me as she works. I'm so grateful that she very readily accepted her punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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