No Child Left Behind - anything good about it?

[mom2abcd]

Dd has to debate pros and cons.

 

Here's a link to a cute song about it...

 

http://www.notonthetest.com/index.html

 

 

"Rational discourse is not on the test"

 

http://www.tomchapin.com/

 

Not On The Test

by John Forster & Tom Chapin

© 2007 Limousine Music Co. & The Last Music Co. (ASCAP)

 

Go on to sleep now, third grader of mine.

The test is tomorrow but you'll do just fine.

It's reading and math. Forget all the rest.

You don't need to know what is not on the test.

 

Each box that you mark on each test that you take,

Remember your teachers. Their jobs are at stake.

Your score is their score, but don't get all stressed.

They'd never teach anything not on the test.

 

The School Board is faced with no child left behind

With rules but no funding, they're caught in a bind.

So music and art and the things you love best

Are not in your school 'cause they're not on the test.

 

Sleep, sleep, and as you progress

You'll learn there's a lot that is not on the test.

Debate is a skill that is useful to know,

Unless you're in Congress or talk radio,

 

Where shouting and spouting and spewing are blessed

'Cause rational discourse was not on the test.

Thinking's important. It's good to know how.

And someday you'll learn to, but someday's not now.

 

Go on to sleep, now. You need your rest.

Don't think about thinking. It's not on the test.

 

 

She can find some studies that show 12th graders are scoring better, but we suspect that might have to do with more states lowering the age for mandatory schooling.

 

I suppose there are some communities in the US where teachers may not slip through the cracks because of NCLB. Any other pros?

 

Thoughts?

[astrid]

Personally, I"m not a fan of NCLB. In fact, it's the reason we started homeschooling.

 

I LOVE the videos!

Thanks....I've passed the links around!

 

Astrid

[Audrey]

I don't think there is anything good about NCLB (and other programs like it elsewhere).

 

FWIW, I didn't think that song was very cute, actually.

 

Sad is the word I was thinking. Really, truly sad.

[Hillary in KS]

Um... I like that it was written by 2 Republicans and 2 Democrats. So it's had input from people on both sides of the aisle. (Never mind that I don't think any of them were ever educators.)

 

Other than that..... :)

 

I sort of like the *intent*, that schools need more accountability for improving academics. But I don't think that the way many schools go about improving academics is helpful.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I remember reading this article years back. It is one that I've often quoted when discussing the law. No Child Left Behind: Success for Some. The general point is that for all the schools that feel hindered by the law, there were others that really needed the kick in the pants that a failing assessment represented.

 

You might also want to look at the archives of the journal Education Next. They have very good articles about education, especially on the topic of what educational research does and does not reveal. They have had numerous articles on NCLB over the years. Here is one that seems on topic from the latest issue.

[angela in ohio]

I suggest researching the test results for special education and minority students. Those are the two groups that have supposedly found increased success under NCLB.

[mom2abcd]

Thanks, ladies. The specific articles are great since she has to have documentation of facts, etc.

 

This is a tough one to present a Pro viewpoint on.

[ElizabethB]

The Reading First portion that mandated phonics actually was very good and had some good results. When we lived in Montgomery, AL, our neighbors were both teachers, they said that a lot more students learned to read after Reading First was implemented, but many teachers didn't like it because it required a lot more work.

 

Here's an article about how reading first was especially helpful for minority reading scores:

 

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_reading_first.html

 

Also, a more recent article about the reading first study:

 

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0519ss.html

[mom2abcd]

Thanks, ElizabethB!

 

Dd and her partner have advanced in Districts and will debate again tomorrow! I'm proud of her!!! She's competing with kids up to 3 years older than her. Thanks for your help, everyone!

[LNC]

I don't understand why everyone dislikes it so much. Is it the teaching to the test concept? I think it provides accountability, but I don't know that much about it...

[Catherine]

Another is that the formulaic approach to improving schools doesn't work if you already have a successful school.

 

I have mixed feelings about NCLB. If it has led to improved teaching methods, I think that is laudable. The only instances I've seen here in my area are overemphasis on tests as a means of assessing student understanding and progress. The testing improves for a few years when students are coached in test-taking strategies (I believe this has been supported by research), and then levels off. The coaching and test-directed teaching was pretty heavy when my kids were still in school. It's also true that schools have a perverse interest in encouraging kids who do not test well to drop out or transfer.

 

I think in theory testing to assess progress makes sense, but in practice, it has not worked well.

[JFSinIL]

I suggest researching the test results for special education and minority students. Those are the two groups that have supposedly found increased success under NCLB.

 

 

yup - as a parent of some "regualr kids" I HATE NCLB - my youngest homeschooled largely due to the lack of science/history as the school told the teachers to concentrate on the TESTED math and language.

 

As a parent of a special needs kid, NCLB is a good thing, as it helps us insist proven, effective teaching methodologies be used with our kidlets.

 

Still - no law is going to make my one son learn how to read or do math. His brain does not care to cooperate with NCLB's intention ;)

[msjones]

IMO, the good thing about it is that it has put many severely underperforming (p.c. public school term of the era for "bad") schools under a microscope. Then it has helped those schools develop improvement plans and funneled money their way so they could work on those plans.

 

I call that an improvement over nothing at all being done about those schools.

 

This is not the same as saying NCLB is Good In General or Good For Your Particular Child. But, I'm sure it was good for some kids.

[AuntieM]

NCLB was sort of a wake-up call. An acknowledgement that our public education system is not operating most effectively. It has not turned out to be the best overall fix, but I think it has made more people aware of the issue, and perhaps more willing to turn a critical eye (not a condeming one, but an evaluating one) towards this issue.

[Mandy]

We began homeschooling as a result of some issues that were brought about by NCLB. First, our school had a hyper-focus on "the test". Secondly, all of the energy and special attention was placed on getting all the kids up to average. If a child was already working well at grade level, or perhaps above, little was done to challenge them.

 

Mandy

[katilac]

I think that it has had horrible effects for many good schools, but positive effects for some low performing schools - - as in, at least it made people aware that there was a problem.

 

The school district we live in is next to a low performing, inner city district that has numerous problems not only with academics but crime and so forth.

 

My school district made the fatal mistake of comparing themselves to the adjacent district, with the result that admin, teachers and parents alike were content with what was actually very low performance, and increasing behavior problems (but better than xyz district, dontcha' know).

 

Like msjones said, the emphasis on testing put their results under a microscope, and it was clear they had little to be proud of.

 

I'm not sure why schools with good to excellent scores feel compelled to change their successful methods, but clearly many do. I understand that there is tremendous pressure, but if you're one of the top schools already . . . ??? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the nitty-gritty rules can address that.

 

One problem I do see is that the American obsession with fairness and equality often results in school, district or state wide rules that are actually harmful to some students. A regimented 'behavior program' might be needed or helpful in some schools, but in schools where teachers have been managing with a model closer to self-discipline, it's a huge step backwards.

 

Likewise, in a school where students don't their ABCs in first grade, or can't read in 3rd grade, then more time needs to be spent nailing down the basics. But fluent readers and writers should be USING those skills in other subjects, not sacrificing that time to more test prep.

 

Even in low-performing schools, more time on the basics shouldn't have to mean more time on test prep and teaching to the test. You need to teach them 'how' to take a standardized test, sure, but our local skills place a sickening emphasis on the test process and results - - pep rallies, contests, t-shirts and banners, ugh.

[angela in ohio]

I don't understand why everyone dislikes it so much. Is it the teaching to the test concept? I think it provides accountability, but I don't know that much about it...

 

I actually don't have a problem with teaching to the test. The test tests basic skills that students need. Schools quit teaching these things effectively in favor of dumb trends, and now they are mad that they have to go back to the hard work of teaching for real so that students can pass a basic test. A great example is the teacher's union's fight against scripted reading instruction/phonics.

 

JMHO...

[Mommy22alyns]

We began homeschooling as a result of some issues that were brought about by NCLB. First, our school had a hyper-focus on "the test". Secondly, all of the energy and special attention was placed on getting all the kids up to average. If a child was already working well at grade level, or perhaps above, little was done to challenge them.

 

Mandy

 

 

Not only were they not challenged, they ended up being underserved. :glare:

[ElizabethB]

Thanks, ElizabethB!

 

Dd and her partner have advanced in Districts and will debate again tomorrow! I'm proud of her!!! She's competing with kids up to 3 years older than her. Thanks for your help, everyone!

 

You're welcome!

 

I'm glad they did so well!!

 

Yay!!

 

:party:

[AuntPol]

My daughter's school is an underpeforming school. We got letters from the district that we were allowed to change schools. However, they picked which of the two schools in the district we could move to. They also sent the letter informing of this on Friday. We received it on Saturday and the form to change had to be RECEIVED by that Monday. No time to tour those schools, mail in a form, etc.