TraceyS/FL Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 OK, i'm working on a list for my lawyer. I have a hard time listing a few things and wondered if i'm thinking thru it too hard or i just need to suck it up. The issue is the "kids" stuff. To me that is theirs - not mine, not STBXH's. I don't think that their stuff should count in my numbers to offset his stuff he wants. OK, so what kind of stuff am i talking about? Their computer that was a gift from my parents, their bedroom furniture that was a gift from my parents (one bed is probably the most expensive piece of furniture in the house), the thousands of dollars of books - school and pleasure - that my parents bought for them in the last 5 years. Those i'd be more comfy taking to my parents house and erasing them from the equation. We are probably talking over $7,000 worth of stuff - and considering that my total is sitting at $16k, it's a decent chunk to add to it (his is approaching 6 figures because of tools and equipment in the garage area). THis is stuff that my parents also feel is the kids. BUT, i know he will try to add it to my total since it's not anywhere close to his. I'm just really curious how this has played out for anyone. Any tips/advice/anything? :tongue_smilie: And for those following the saga of my life.... my in-laws just left today in the RV to go back to CA. There has been some other shocking/nasty things happen the last week - i could use some prayers and good thoughts for a smooth next 2 weeks. As smooth as it can be anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'm sorry you are going through this. I am assuming the children are going with you and that the books and furniture will be used by you to furnish where you live and what you do, so I think they would be considered yours. But, I am not a lawyer or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in VA Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 List it, but put an explanation like you gave here. Your lawyer will want to know everything that could come up. He/She will know how to categorize it. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivium Academy Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think whomever gets custodial custody will have the majority of the kids' belongings. It would be pretty sad that he would want to take the kids' items away from them if you have custodial custody. Although you see a value in all the books, I don't think that would be counted as assets. I would ask your lawyer's secretary (a good way to avoid another fee) if the kids' belongings matter in asset division. The computer may need to be listed but the rest seems ridiculous to have to claim. When claiming the computer, I would find out how much it is worth now- not how much it cost when it was new. My computer was 1299.00 when purchased but is only worth 380 now- although there's not a single thing wrong with it, but that's the market value. Just voicing my thoughts, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'm sorry you are going through this. I am assuming the children are going with you and that the books and furniture will be used by you to furnish where you live and what you do, so I think they would be considered yours. But, I am not a lawyer or anything. If for some reason the kids didn't go with me (or something happened to me) - then a lot of it would indeed go to my parents home for them to use there when visiting. I should add - he hates books. Tries to get rid of them.... The furniture - it would pain me, but the one bed would probably need to be at their primary residence. Which i obviously hope is my home. List it, but put an explanation like you gave here. Your lawyer will want to know everything that could come up. He/She will know how to categorize it. That is what i'm doing now - i just didn't want to call her and ask at the minimum rate of 2/10th of $225! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 No first hand knowledge here, but :grouphug:. I know just how amazingly evil IL's can be. Slow deep breaths, and try to read some funny stories to your littles! Personally, I'd move what I could to my parents, quickly and quietly, and talk to the attorney. Find out if statements from your parents will help. To me, a non-legal person, a gift to your kids from your parents SHOULD be exempt, as long as we are not talking a huge sum that you and your STBEX also benefited from. Computers devalue faster than cars, and the sticker price should not be full, new value. Books, too. However, if you want in on some of the value of his tools and equipment, it might be best to "pool everything" so that he'll have to sell them and share the gain with you. (Some tools hold their worth more than books, some don't.) You have a pack of kids to think of, and you need a bloodthirsty lawyer. As I once read in a book for divorcing dads, get everything....you can always give back what you think is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think whomever gets custodial custody will have the majority of the kids' belongings. It would be pretty sad that he would want to take the kids' items away from them if you have custodial custody. Although you see a value in all the books, I don't think that would be counted as assets. I would ask your lawyer's secretary (a good way to avoid another fee) if the kids' belongings matter in asset division. The computer may need to be listed but the rest seems ridiculous to have to claim. This makes sense - basically just ignore it. I guess i'll still list it on a separate group so that she knows about it. When claiming the computer, I would find out how much it is worth now- not how much it cost when it was new. My computer was 1299.00 when purchased but is only worth 380 now- although there's not a single thing wrong with it, but that's the market value. Just voicing my thoughts, Yup, it's only worth about $500. Mine is worth $1000 less than when it was new - but still a decent chunk! LOL!! (it's a 17" Macbook Pro) The forms want you to list the assets, then put a check by the ones you want awarded to you. I just have no clue how detailed to go - so i'm doing it on a separate spreadsheet for her to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Personally, I'd move what I could to my parents, quickly and quietly, and talk to the attorney. Find out if statements from your parents will help. To me, a non-legal person, a gift to your kids from your parents SHOULD be exempt, as long as we are not talking a huge sum that you and your STBEX also benefited from. Computers devalue faster than cars, and the sticker price should not be full, new value. Books, too. However, if you want in on some of the value of his tools and equipment, it might be best to "pool everything" so that he'll have to sell them and share the gain with you. (Some tools hold their worth more than books, some don't.) I need the value of his tools (which he put at $100k) to help with the house leaning my way (we own it outright). He is a mechanic - they are all expensive and professional and he sold them for awhile. You know, we are talking $15 for one socket..... Oh and their computer is worth about 1/2 of what it was new, the perk of buying a Mac. They reach a value and hold it! You have a pack of kids to think of, and you need a bloodthirsty lawyer. As I once read in a book for divorcing dads, get everything....you can always give back what you think is fair. I think i have one - she is a former states attorney and enjoys sticking it to people :D But yes, that is the goal - ask for everything, and give in in tiny bits. I actually was surprised though at fair market value how low my total of what i want is. I guess this really is a good time to be splitting stuff! LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivium Academy Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I would google either assets or asset division and your state and it will give you an idea (hopefully) of what to list. I found a list for GA and I know not to list kitchen items, b/c the court considers it petty to divide utensils and small appliances. If you're seeking custodial custody (the kids live with you but visit him) I would list that all the kids' furniture, educational supplies (includes computer and books) would be with you. Take pictures of the big items you want. Has he voiced any of his own desires for items? It's a pain but you're taking inventory. :grouphug: Did you get a list of things your lawyer will charge you for? The admin asst. or secretary can answer the small questions if you cannot find a free answer online. Oh, and I don't know anything either- this is just from my own research and reading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 HOly smokes. How'd i miss FL isn't a community property state???? I have 35 years of knowing how THAT works.... now to wrap my head around this more. From a South Florida lawyers webpage. When it comes to property division in a divorce, it is important to understand the process used by the courts to determine the awarding of assets and liabilities. Florida is not (like California) a community property state. The terminology used in Florida for property division in a divorce is “Equitable Distribution” which encompasses the idea of fairness in property division taking into consideration the age, health and earning capacity of the parties, the length of the marriage, whether the property was purchased prior to the marriage to name a few. The courts in determining equitable distribution start with a 50/50 division of property and debts and then adjusts those figures based on the equities in the case. Clients are often surprised that in Florida it is irrelevant which party holds title. If it was obtained during the marriage, it is a marital asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommylawyer Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 This is part of my job as a family law attorney - here's what I suggest: First, you need 3 lists: marital property, separate property (that is, premarital property or property that was specifically gifted to you), and children's property. You may even want to make a fourth list detailing his separate property - unless you think it's going to cause more problems than it's worth - which it may. Next, how detailed you get is up to you, but don't get insane about it. (I had a client once list EVERYTHING - even down to each plastic plant, the plastic salt & pepper shakers, and all of the food in the pantry - and she had a 5-story house with an elevator, so you can imagine how long the list was.) List the linens as a group - 3 sheet sets, 2 comforters, towels, etc. No need to get more specific than that - then say you want 1/2 or whatever. Same with pictures and dishes. If there are particularly meaningful items you want (the kitchenaid mixer and the wok) list them and say you want them. But if there are additional - not big ticket item - kitchen pieces that don't really matter to you, then just say "kitchen items - 1/2." Same for movies, books, CDs - just say you want half (or the appropriate way you need to split those items, such as Homeschooling books - me, Harlequin romance novels - him). Do list all of the big things - TVs, VCRs, computers, sofas, beds, other furniture, etc. As for the children's items - the person who is getting custody should get the bulk of the items, but if your parents specifically gave the children a computer, then put that on the children's list with a mark that you get it and a VERY short note like this: gift from my parents. Unless you have to, don't get bogged down on how much things are worth. People start getting wrapped up in the dollar figures and start using items against the other person. For example, you may truly want that old chair in the living room, but if your STBXH thinks it is worth $400, he may "want" it, too. Oh! And on the marital list (if it truly is marital), don't forget to list any tools your STBXH has. Not that you want them, but you want him to be aware that you know they are there. You also may want a few tools - a couple of screwdrivers, a hammer, etc. Don't forget your jewelry - and your wedding/engagement ring IS yours! Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 In my divorce, the kids' items didn't even come up in the property division conversations. Neither attorney mentioned them, so the kids' stuff stayed with the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I need the value of his tools (which he put at $100k) to help with the house leaning my way (we own it outright). He is a mechanic - they are all expensive and professional and he sold them for awhile. You know, we are talking $15 for one socket..... Can you find a catalog (online or print) that sells his brand of tools and use that value? I understand about the value of tools, my dh is a self-employed carpenter. :glare: I would get specific about the tools, take photos so you can prove their existence as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommylawyer Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 In my experience, the kids' items do, sometimes, come up. It really just depends on the personalities and the dynamics involved in the divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I need the value of his tools (which he put at $100k) to help with the house leaning my way (we own it outright). another note: "equitable" does not always mean *equal* It is equitable that the custodial parent get the bulk of the children's items, even if that means the property division is not equal. So try not to get too caught up in dollar values ;) good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 No real advice...just Wow! When I divorced my ex, we didn't have to do anything like that. We had a really easy divorce, agreed on what each would take, and moved on. We sold the house and split the assets minus the 5K his dad had loaned us as a down payment when we got the house. The hoops you are having to jump through with those forms are just nuts! I am just so thankful that our divorce was easy and relatively painless. I hope that maybe your STBXH will come around to agreement and you all can make these decisions without further strife. :( *hugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Can you find a catalog (online or print) that sells his brand of tools and use that value? I understand about the value of tools, my dh is a self-employed carpenter. :glare: I would get specific about the tools, take photos so you can prove their existence as well. There is seriously no way i can inventory them. HE's got 4 toolboxes out there FULL. And boxes of stuff.... i have to get him out of the house so i can try to at least get pictures in the garage (it's detached from the house). But i'm guessing the boxes are locked and he carries the keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I need the value of his tools (which he put at $100k) to help with the house leaning my way (we own it outright). He is a mechanic - they are all expensive and professional and he sold them for awhile. You know, we are talking $15 for one socket..... If these tools are owned technically by his company (I'm assuming he is self-employed), I don't think they would count as his personal belongings. Or perhaps this is only if he is incorporated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 In my experience, the kids' items do, sometimes, come up. It really just depends on the personalities and the dynamics involved in the divorce. Part of it stems from a need to show how much he has NOT been providing for for hte kids. I probably can't say more than that. another note: "equitable" does not always mean *equal* It is equitable that the custodial parent get the bulk of the children's items, even if that means the property division is not equal. So try not to get too caught up in dollar values ;) good luck! Yup, i was lifted when i read the stuff at the link i found today. The fact of it not being a community property state is going to be helpful - because they take it ALL into consideration and i could get awarded say 75% of the house. Right now, his assets far outweigh mine and the offset of a few things tips it way more in my favor. I need to get on wtih this list and it's impossible with him here in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 There is seriously no way i can inventory them. HE's got 4 toolboxes out there FULL. And boxes of stuff.... i have to get him out of the house so i can try to at least get pictures in the garage (it's detached from the house). But i'm guessing the boxes are locked and he carries the keys. you should be able to request a full inventory via discovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 And I'm not a lawyer, but I would hesitate to remove items (like the kids' books) to another location. Wouldn't that have the potential to appear that you are hiding things? Were the tools ever listed on an inventory that might be on the computer? Maybe listed as business assets on a tax return? Listed on an insurance policy (even as a group amount)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 No advice or feedback. Just {{{{many hugs}}}} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 It would be my guess that if he or his lawyer deems your kids stuff yours then that ups your total share in the property and allows him to take more of the communal items. Angela had great advice! I would definitely do a list of just kids items and keep that separate. Be careful about removing items from your home. That often becomes an ugly point of contention later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommylawyer Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'm not sure how it came up but, yes, removing items is a REALLY bad idea. I also agree with taking photos of everything - especially if he still has access to the home... just to make sure items aren't walking away. If his tools were purchased by his employer or if he's self-employed and purchased those tools through his business (or even purchased himself as a sole proprietor), then those are business assets. However, if he has his own business, consider that you may be entitled to an equitable division (or an offset of something else such as bank accounts, retirement, or the former marital residence) even of his business if it (or a portion thereof) is a marital asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 The only removal i mentioned was moving the kids books & computer to my parents house. That would be something done with his knowledge. He is a mechanic by trade. These are tools that were accumulated over the years of marriage - and for a year he sold them in a business that is now closed. OK, i got the rough draft to her this morning to keep on the timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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