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What are you doing to teach your children about Martin Luthur King, Jr. Today?


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Why is it....that when you are 1/2 African American.....that you are considered... African American? If you are 1/2 Chinese and 1/2 American.....are you then considered Chinese?

 

In my area, it is not uncommon to hear the term Chinese-American, Irish-American, etc.

It seems to me that the hyphenated term refers to those who still hold a deep connection to their ancestry though they were born and raised in America.

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Please...please...please don't let this topic get into something that discusses racism. This is NOT about racism and pinpointing what is and isn't racist. This is about celebrating the life and work of someone who made a real change in our country. I do not want this topic to have to be closed for being a heated subject. PLEASE. Let's just let those who celebrate share their ways of celebrating and leave it at that. :)

 

Sorry, I missed this. No problem Rebecca. I won't try to get your good thread locked. :001_smile: It just seemed as if my statement was taken out of context.

 

It was an observation of how my daughter thinks. I didn't say it was how people should think, or else they're racist. My point in mentioning it was that when I realized how she was thinking, I took it upon myself to introduce the subject of skin color respectfully.

 

I teach her to love the way she looks, skin, hair and all.

 

I was just glad my dd didn't have race thrown into her face in a negative way as it was during Dr. King's time. A time when by five, you've been exposed to so much racism, all you see is a person's skin color and you assume you need not enquire further into their character.

 

I think we've progressed to the point that we notice color along with everything else, but make no judgements until we know more of a person.

Edited by Blessedfamily
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Living in Mexico and not having any TV reception (of Mexican or US channels) I had no idea until I came to the board this morning. We've been talking about Ghandi a lot lately and the boys definitely equated the two (MLK and Ghandi).

 

I'll follow the Teaching Company link and maybe we'll try and watch that today.

 

The lecture is just audio, but very good. I did not realize the impact that Gandhi and Buber and Tillich had on Dr. King, though I suppose I should have. The lecture does a very nice job laying out his (King's) ideas about freedom and sin, and how he came to understand and live out those ideas in non-violent protest.

 

I think his position on non-violent social change is what puts him in a separate category for me than any civil war general, even the kind, Christian ones.

 

I've been thinking about the original question, though, all morning, what I want my children to know about Dr. King. My greatest fear is that Dr. King will be the beginning and end of their understanding of civil rights. I didn't express that well.... Not sure to get at what I want to say here, but it's very important to me that my children understand that Dr. King did not appear out of nowhere. He was part of a vibrant and thoughtful community. Rosa Parks wasn't some nice little old lady who cracked one day. Her actions were intentional, planned, and grew out of her relationships with others who were active in a growing and developing civil rights movement.

 

And I want my children to know about Howard Thurman, for instance, who was possibly one of America's greatest theologians and a contemporary of Martin Luther King Senior. I had never heard of him until I was in my 30s, and was and am still aghast that we learn so little about important African Americans historical figures.

 

I don't mean to diminish Dr. King's influence or importance, but my point is only that holding up one man and not pointing to the larger community seems a little silly to me. The holiday for me is an invitation to revisit, re-assess where we are and where we are going.

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African American? If you are 1/2 Chinese and 1/2 American.....are you then considered Chinese?

 

Well no, but you might be considered (by yourself or others) a "Chinese American." Being "Chinese" would normally be a matter of citizenship. Even if you have two Chinese parents, if you were born in America, I think most people would think of you as "Chinese American" rather than as "Chinese."

 

I have friends who are raising half-Chinese children. The eldest is my son's best friend. He speaks very little Chinese and has grown up with mostly white friends, but I think his Asian looks have colored his experiences growing up - more because of how other students see him than because of how he feels about himself. Other kids tend to think, "Oh, Asian kid. All A's. Must be really competitive academically." So that has been a big part of how he has experienced life so far.

 

Its seems like a lot of people have started to claim "bi-racial" as the best way to describe themselves. I hear that more and more. But I think if a person feels like their African descent has really defined their experience and wants to call his or herself a "African American" that works fine for me.

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We are African-American and my boys are 11, 7.5 and 4.5. Today we talked about Dr. King in the light of how God uses a person's gifts/skills and talents, a person who is obedient to Him, to change the world. We have spoken about Dr. King for the past couple of years, each year giving a little more detail so as not to cause confusion or fear or stir ill-feelings. Like some of the previous posters, we go to an integrated church, our children's best friends are white, filipino, hispanic and black, so my older son is just starting to understand this thing called race. We talk about how historically, Satan used race to divide, and people like Dr. King used truth and non-violence to bring reconciliation. And we talked about how Dr. King's actions made it possible for Barack Obama to become the 44th president of the US. While we were divided in our house on our vote for president, we are united in celebrating the historical significance.

 

I am only 38 years old, yet I am still amazed that my children are so "un-race conscious".

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Being African American, with our family having many white friends, I have been slow to introduce the concept of racism to my children. (Thankfully) it makes very little sense to them, and I haven't wanted to give them any reason to be angry at white people--the ones we know today had nothing to do with what happened to black people in the past. But I have explained that a long time ago, black and white people couldn't be friends, couldn't go to school together, couldn't ride the bus together. I've told them that Martin Luther King, Jr., prayed for people, marched, and encouraged people to love each other regardless of race. I also explained that Obama's election is exciting because we've never had a president of African descent before. Like I said, thankfully, this doesn't make much sense to them. In a mock election at school, my son voted for McCain. I also voted for McCain (but I'm also happy about this historic occasion), my husband voted for Obama. We talk about politics in our home but I always tell my children that color doesn't matter. But I do want them to appreciate that they life we enjoy today is due in part to the work and sacrifice of others before us. As they mature, we will go into more depth and detail. As Christians, the overall theme of history for us God's mercy and grace in spite of man's sin.

 

:iagree:VERY well said! Thank you!

 

Being from the south and living here it's hard to "make-up" for what your ancestors did. We go to a multi-racial church. I want my kids to feel "normal" around other races (whether that's black, hispanic, asian etc...)

 

I teach the sins of the past, but we too thank God for his grace and mercy!!!

 

Thank you for sharing!

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Sorry, I missed this. No problem Rebecca. I won't try to get your good thread locked. :001_smile: It just seemed as if my statement was taken out of context.

 

It was an observation of how my daughter thinks. I didn't say it was how people should think, or else they're racist. My point in mentioning it was that when I realized how she was thinking, I took it upon myself to introduce the subject of skin color respectfully.

 

I teach her to love the way she looks, skin, hair and all.

 

I was just glad my dd didn't have race thrown into her face in a negative way as it was during Dr. King's time. A time when by five, you've been exposed to so much racism, all you see is a person's skin color and you assume you need not enquire further into their character.

 

I think we've progressed to the point that we notice color along with everything else, but make no judgements until we know more of a person.

 

Thank you Yvette. I totally understood what you meant by your post. I think it is great that your child never thought to refer to others by skin color alone! My oldest son didn't either. However, my younger, living in a predominately caucasian area (translation, small town USA), did start to notice based on skin color. That is when I made it know that people have all different skin colors - even in our own house (my dh has a dark olive colored skin and black hair whereas I am very fair skinned and my boys are a cross between the two - not as pale as me, not as dark as him) and that color of skin was not a way to describe people. I wont even allow my kids to refer to people as "the black girl in co-op," etc. I immediately tell them to pick another feature and describe her to me that way. I am always amazed at what comes out..."the pretty little girl whose brother is in my art class" or "the tall girl who was wearing a pink skirt today." :)

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I generally find Dr. King's "I have a dream" speech on youtube and we watch it. I always cry. They always pat my back and I suppose shoot each other inquiring looks. They don't really get it. My children can't really imagine a world in which you didn't have black neighbors or friends. They only just recently really "got" that Obama is going to be our first bi-racial president. They just assumed that would have happened already at some point.

 

They had the same problem with the holocaust when we studied it. It seemed to them that it must have been like another universe when children were killed because of genetics. They don't really understand that my lifetime has seen a lot of change and that their grandparents lived through WWII. They haven't wrapped their minds yet around the idea that their grandparents were raised in a segregated south. So while they understand why we honor Dr. King, they don't really understand why it's so emotional for their parents.

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We made a donation to the Hosea Williams Feed The Hungry dinner. We helped an elementary school clean the grounds this morning. We took food to a family in need. I see today as a day of service.

 

My kids just finished copying parts of and discussing Dr. King's "I Have A Dream" speech. Even my 4yo did this.

 

We also discussed the connection with President-elect Obama's inauguration tomorrow.

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Living in Ca, we don't see racism, it was hard for my kids to understand (which I am glad) the movie "our friend Martin" was very eye opening to them.

 

The "living in Ca" part surprises me. You must realize that California is a huge state, and that racism does exist everywhere. In fact, I am surprised that your father (and your siblings) have not experienced racism due to the prejudice many Californians have against Mexican.

 

Nothing to add, really, just surprised. I was living in Los Angeles during the riots that followed the Rodney King verdicts. I am not saying that the rioters did the right thing, but that anger did not spring ONLY from the verdicts. Black people were frustrated by being continually treated *differently* than white people by the LAPD, and now (Rodney King) that treatment was being upheld. (Edited to add: my workplace was right across from the DMV, which was set on fire. I had driven to work, unaware of the events of the previous day, so I watched the fires of L.A. burning from the roof of my workplace. Many of the stores on the way to work were destroyed and looted.)

 

Since so many of you have said that your children have never seen racism, I was going to ask if any of you DO live in racist communities. But that would just get the thread locked, I guess. I am not implying that any of you are racist or that you would intentionally choose racist communities. Just curious as to whether any of you have witnessed it during the past, say, 20 years. My grandfather (raised in Missouri) was so racist that he didn't even know it. It was so fully ingrained in his belief system. My father was raised in Newport Beach and never even knew that he had absorbed that belief system. He is probably still racist (Mexicans can only be gardeners) but it doesn't really come up. I have not asked him what he thinks about our new President. He is probably still in shock.

 

And to answer the OP, I will show my son a clip of MLK Jr.'s speech on YouTube, and look up the text of the "I Have a Dream" speech. The holiday has come at a good time in our history studies, because we just finished reading "Amistad" and also a few books on Sojourner Truth. It is poignant that Sojourner Truth didn't fully realize that abolishing slavery would not "fix" everything for African-Americans in the United States. At the end of her life, she saw that a long road was still ahead regarding education and other opportunities for African-Americans.

 

Another nice "link" we made is that when Abraham Lincoln showed Sojourner Truth his Bible, he said that it had been a gift from the "colored people of Baltimore." No wonder Obama is using this same Bible at his swearing in!

 

 

Julie

Edited by buddhabelly
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>>The point was that it hasn't come up for them, like it certainly did for us by that age. (the concept of race/skin color)<<

 

I certainly had African American friends in elementary school and never thought of them as different. I think it has more to do with the innocence of childhood. No one is being judgmental toward another for any reason at the age of 5 or 6. Generally, that is learned behavior. Maybe if people would all be more childlike in their acceptance of people, we wouldn't have all of these problems.

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>>The point was that it hasn't come up for them, like it certainly did for us by that age. (the concept of race/skin color)<<

 

I certainly had African American friends in elementary school and never thought of them as different. I think it has more to do with the innocence of childhood. No one is being judgmental toward another for any reason at the age of 5 or 6. Generally, that is learned behavior. Maybe if people would all be more childlike in their acceptance of people, we wouldn't have all of these problems.

 

I'm sure you disagree based on your experience. I posted my experience as an African American child for whom the issue most definately came up by that age.

 

As for your statement that "Noone is being judgmental toward another for any reason at the age of 5 or 6"-

 

Perhaps a 5 or 6 year old may not be judgemental towards each other, but that doesn't stop adults from doing so to a 5 or 6 year old. And then the 5 or 6 year old would certainly have become aware of racism.

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Of course if adults have influence there, anything could be an issue.

 

I'm just saying that I didn't really deal with any racism issues at that age and I'm 41 years old. I think some of that was waning by that time, at least for children and what they thought of kids that were other races. If children were NOT influenced by adults, racism would probably never be an issue. Most kids wouldn't come to anything like that on their own.

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And the man you call a "kind, gentle, Christian man" was on the wrong side in our nation's greatest moral challenge. He made the decision to use his talents to support the evils of human slavery.

 

Today I'd rather focus on a positive force. Thank-you Dr King!

 

Bill

 

Ya know, at the risk of being too political but still having a relevant answer for this thread, we too drew a very conscious connection between MLKJ and Obama's Inauguration, but we came to a similar conclusion for Obama as SpyCar did for Lee:

 

"And the man you call a "kind, gentle, Christian man" was on the wrong side in our nation's greatest moral challenge. He made the decision to use his talents to support the evils of killing humans w/o due process or legal consequence."

 

I find it utterly ironic that a man who has been blessed through so many people's work to end discrimination has promised via his new position as President to do whatever it takes to further the discrimination against unborn humans.

 

So yes, we discussed the definition of discrimination, the history of discrimination, and our country's legal history of deciding how much a human is 'worth,' peace and violence and actions of each, and Obama's promises upon becoming President tomorrow.

 

I do appreciate the fact that we have come so far as a country, but these two days --MLKJ & inauguration of our first black Prez-- hold so many opposing values that I find it difficult to rejoice.

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Of course if adults have influence there, anything could be an issue.

 

I'm just saying that I didn't really deal with any racism issues at that age and I'm 41 years old. I think some of that was waning by that time, at least for children and what they thought of kids that were other races. If children were NOT influenced by adults, racism would probably never be an issue. Most kids wouldn't come to anything like that on their own.

 

I agree with you. Because at school was the place my race mattered least. Of course I had friends of all races, but I will always thank some very good white friends and very good white teachers who apparently felt just like you. They helped balance my perspective very much.

 

Eta: I just wanted to add that of course they could see my color, but it just wasn't an issue. My teachers in particular were always so full of praise and encouraging and nominating me to represent them. Not to sound boastful, but they always call me a smart girl. They never called me a smart AA girl. Just a smart girl.

Edited by Blessedfamily
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As an African-American family this day does mean alot to us. It is a school holiday, but not just to recognize Dr. King. We have taken the opportunity to celebrate all of those that fought for civil rights. Those names that are known as well as those that are unknown. I do find it difficult at times to discuss our history. I want them to be proud of who they are but not to feel hatred toward whites. I tell them that yes, we are African American but that is not all we are. The most important thing we are is Christians and that everyone that has accepted our Savior is our brother/sister. The night of the election my oldest dd13 cried when the results came in. When I asked her why she said that all she could think about was a picture of a man she saw in one of our books. The man had been lynched and had a sign hanging around his neck that said "this n***** voted". She was proud.

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I am having a hard time knowing how to broach the subject with DD because seh hasn't the vaguist idea that some people would make any kind of issue of skin color. In teaching her about Martin Luther King Jr., I would first have to teach her about racism. I would rather she remain innocent to the whole idea. We will get to it in history in 4th grade. I don't plan to bring it up before then.

Thank you Yvette. I totally understood what you meant by your post. I think it is great that your child never thought to refer to others by skin color alone! My oldest son didn't either. However, my younger, living in a predominately caucasian area (translation, small town USA), did start to notice based on skin color. That is when I made it know that people have all different skin colors - even in our own house (my dh has a dark olive colored skin and black hair whereas I am very fair skinned and my boys are a cross between the two - not as pale as me, not as dark as him) and that color of skin was not a way to describe people. I wont even allow my kids to refer to people as "the black girl in co-op," etc. I immediately tell them to pick another feature and describe her to me that way. I am always amazed at what comes out..."the pretty little girl whose brother is in my art class" or "the tall girl who was wearing a pink skirt today." :)

 

I don't think "no concept of race" is the route we're going to take, nor are we going to make a general, identifying referral to skin color taboo. I will love this country so much more than I already do when we reach the point that race and skin color are just non-issues and no one is tiptoeing gently through the language because the intent of our hearts and attitudes towards our brothers and sisters are in the right place and we ALL KNOW IT.

 

:iagree:Well, this thread is already about racism, so I want to add my 2 cents...

 

I think that tiptoeing around skin color when describing people can cause problems. I see no reason to teach our children to do so. After adding 10 descriptive terms while describing someone DH and I have found that we finally have to add, "you know, she's black", then the lightbulb goes off. It is just silly.

 

Being a white person that has experienced quite a bit of racism, I am relieved that it looks like we are done with it. I have also seen a lot of assuming of racism. Having the white house full of people of different races will help in that respect as well, I think. I am not saying white people are innocent either; my parents will still whisper with a knowing voice, "he's black." I am not sure what they think they know. :lol:

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:iagree:Well, this thread is already about racism, so I want to add my 2 cents...

 

I think that tiptoeing around skin color when describing people can cause problems. I see no reason to teach our children to do so. After adding 10 descriptive terms while describing someone DH and I have found that we finally have to add, "you know, she's black", then the lightbulb goes off. It is just silly.

 

Being a white person that has experienced quite a bit of racism, I am relieved that it looks like we are done with it. I have also seen a lot of assuming of racism. Having the white house full of people of different races will help in that respect as well, I think. I am not saying white people are innocent either; my parents will still whisper with a knowing voice, "he's black." I am not sure what they think they know. :lol:

 

 

I agree. I wouldn't teach her to ignore skin color. I think my point was that I was surprised my dd hasn't paid attention to it. I'm glad that I got to introduce the subject myself.

 

To make it clearer- in the black community that I grew up in, a white person was always referred to as "that white girl", "that white lady", "some white person" and so on, all the time.

 

Once, my Aunt's husband brought a friend home from work. He introduced him with- "This is my white friend from work."

I can't even tell you what the man's name was.

 

Because of the racial history, there was a very "us against them" mentality. So if you were white, you were guilty without a trial. If a white lady bumped into you at the grocery store, it was because she was prejudiced.

 

I felt differently. (Maybe she's just rude. Maybe skin color has nothing to do with it.) The reason, as I posted before, was primarily because I had a different experience at school. I had good relationships with people of other skin colors.

 

I don't want to make skin color taboo. I brought up dd's lack of differentiating people by skin color because it means to me that she hasn't had these....tensions to introduced race to her in a negative way.

 

Of course one reason is things have changed for the better. Also, we live in a neighborhood that's more like school was to me back then.

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I agree. I wouldn't teach her to ignore skin color. I think my point was that I was surprised my dd hasn't paid attention to it. I'm glad that I got to introduce the subject myself.

 

To make it clearer- in the black community that I grew up in, a white person was always referred to as "that white girl", "that white lady", "some white person" and so on, all the time.

 

I don't want to make skin color taboo. I brought up dd's lack of differentiating people by skin color because it means to me that she hasn't had these....tensions to introduced race to her in a negative way.

 

I think your explanation helped me to understand where you were coming from. I think my DD notices skin color (in descriptions of people) b/c we are in a small town and it is unusual. Though sometimes she will say "Mamaw's friend, or the girl with the pony tails." It isn't always used in a description.

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It's funny, but this MLK Day presented a conundrum for me.

 

To say Martin Luther King, Jr. is a "hero" to me is an understatement of great magnitude, but when asked by my son (4.5) who MLK was, and what the holiday was about, I left it with: "he was a great man who made things better in this nation", but I left it at that for now.

 

Thus far my son has never show any "color consciousness". Goodness knows he has friends and neighbors of every hue living here in Los Angeles. But never have either my wife or I heard him refer to someone by the "color" of their skin.

 

I did almost fall out of my chair the other day, when after watching the film Benjamin Button my son asked me: "Why did the black guy die?"

 

I thought, uh oh, it's finally happened. But after a few lightly probing questions I learned "the black guy" was "the black guy" because as a pastor he was outfitted in a black robe (and not because he was African-American).

 

And so on this MLK day, I'm celebrating the fact that my son, and the children of many others, don't seem hung up on "race". And I'm sure Dr King would smile on a world where parents can kick the discussion of past intolerances down the road (not forever mind you) but that minds are not conditioned at 4 or 5 or ? to divisions based on our ethnic heritage.

 

Someday I'll be happy to share the whole story, for today I'm glad it's not an imperative to do so now.

 

Happy Martin Luther King Day everyone!

 

Bill

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Well, I disagree with many here. I do NOT think it is necessarily racism for a child to describe someone by their color. I do, however, not allow my children to use such a description. We strive in my family to teach our kids to see past race - to judge not on color of skin, but on content of character - just as Dr. King wanted. When I say, "you know, the black girl" it just feels wrong coming from my mouth. I wouldn't want someone referring to me as, "you know...the white girl." I would want them to say, "you know...X's mommy" or "you know, the woman who works with the nursery at church" - and not define me by the color of my skin.

 

This country has a long way to go. But, for me - having an African American best friend, an African American Brother-in-law and two bi-racial nieces - one of which, in kindergarten was called a "ni*****" by a classmate - it is a hot topic with me and my kids in my home. To each his own. I don't think you are racist to allow your kids to refer to someone by color (necessarily), but for me and my kids, we do not.

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My point is that my DD is totally innocent of any racial implications. If I tell her to refrain from using race or skin color in her descriptions, then I will be drawing attention to it.

 

We are studying about Japanese-Americans now. If there were one in a room full of little girls wearing jumpers and that seems the only way to distinguish who she is, I see no reason for DD to tell me, "My new friend May is the one who looks Japanese." As opposed to jumping through hoops to find another description. She had a friend of this description in PreS, but called her "the girl with the black hair", I said, "you mean Christina?" and she had to explain, "no the other one."

 

It appears that your nieces and children are sadly very aware of racism already, so I can see why you would have a different view.

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Well, I disagree with many here. I do NOT think it is necessarily racism for a child to describe someone by their color. I do, however, not allow my children to use such a description. We strive in my family to teach our kids to see past race - to judge not on color of skin, but on content of character - just as Dr. King wanted. When I say, "you know, the black girl" it just feels wrong coming from my mouth. I wouldn't want someone referring to me as, "you know...the white girl." I would want them to say, "you know...X's mommy" or "you know, the woman who works with the nursery at church" - and not define me by the color of my skin.

 

This country has a long way to go. But, for me - having an African American best friend, an African American Brother-in-law and two bi-racial nieces - one of which, in kindergarten was called a "ni*****" by a classmate - it is a hot topic with me and my kids in my home. To each his own. I don't think you are racist to allow your kids to refer to someone by color (necessarily), but for me and my kids, we do not.

 

Rebecca,

 

Several people said there kids haven't described people by skin color yet.

I think people are just noting how their kids haven't picked up on color as differentiation, yet. I don't think those people are saying it's racist if the child does. A child, after all, described what he or she sees.

 

It's just nice that kids don't live in such a racially devisive atmosphere where they see (because they are taught to see) only a person's color, even at a young age. (As was my experience and some others.) :001_smile:

Edited by Blessedfamily
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Thank you for understanding. We are definitely affected differently due to experiences. Unfortunately, my kids are very SADLY aware of racism...and my nieces are even moreso affected. It just breaks my heart. My oldest niece went to my dad the other day and told him that she didn't' want to be brown anymore and that people called her "black girl" and "n*gg**" in school. She was in the bathroom trying to wash her skin. :( I cried. This little girl is BEAUTIFUL and she hates her skin color because of how she is referred to in school. I don't usually share photos online - but I am going to share one here of my oldest niece. I couldn't imagine a more beautiful little girl.

 

The most recent I have of her. She is sitting with my dad - she was 6. :)

 

IMG_5870mod.jpg

 

And here is one of her playing with my boys when she was about 3.

 

Kids2005.jpg

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