Man charged with murder in daughter's death

[Pretty in Pink]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081230/ap_on_re_us/hypothermia_death

 

This is so sad. I cannot imagine turning my children loose to walk ten miles, alone, under such conditions; then again, the father must be absolutely broken over this. How awful.

[Miss Peregrine]

I don't understand not checking to make sure they got there once his car was fixed... So sad.

[beansprouts]

He made a very unwise choice, and the results were tragic.

 

I am not sure that "murder" is an appropriate charge, though.

[Holly IN]

I do not understand the murder charge. It sounds more like a negilence (sp?) charge to me.

 

Very strange for the prosecutor to state this.

 

Holly

[Quiver0f10]

I don't understand not checking to make sure they got there once his car was fixed... So sad.

 

This is what gets me. I can see asking them to walk cause the truck was stuck( I wouldn't have but I can almost see why he did this). Maybe he figured it would get too cold in the truck and someone would help the kids? But once he got unstuck he should have tried to find them, make sure they got there ok. Unreal.

[bkpan]

I have to disagree. The (extreme!) negligence resulted in her death, so the murder charge makes sense to me. Definitely tragic for so many, but the fact that the children's father did nothing to be sure they were OK - drove after them, called their mother, the police..... If he had at least tried to immediately check up on them, and then a tragedy still occurred, then I could see a manslaughter charge.

 

He is directly responsible for her death, IMO. Just can't imagine expecting young children to walk 10 miles alone in the snow....

 

Kim

[LizzyBee]

Maybe he thought it'd be safer to let them walk to their mom's house than to keep them with him since he didn't know how long it would take to fix his truck. Maybe he thought they'd be safe since they were together. Did they have a cell phone with them? I wonder if the guy has any history of being a negligent dad.

 

I grew up in an area that has annual snowfall of over 100", and I was thinking about whether my parents would have done what he did. My youngest sister, mother and I once walked about 10 miles in snow that was about 1-2 feet deep, but I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't have let us walk that far by ourselves. Not that we would have wanted to - I remember being pretty mad that she made us walk with her that day. I remember one time my mom let me walk to get the mail when it was really cold, windy and snowing - about a half mile each way - and when my dad found out he told her not to let me go get the mail when the weather was that bad. She probably hadn't been outside and didn't realize how bad it was, but I remember that by the time I was almost home, every step was so hard - I wanted to lay down in the snow and go to sleep.

[lionfamily1999]

(quote at end of article) While she said she doesn't understand the decision Aragon is accused of making in letting the children walk to her house, Jenks added, "I don't need to sit and yell. I know he's going through hell right now."

 

 

I think their mother said it best (see above). The result is punishment enough. Did he realize it was ten miles? Was it ten miles as the bird flies or by the road? Did he think they'd cross fields? There are so many questions that should be answered before he is even charged with a crime. How terrible for them all.

[jonesloonybin]

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you all. Making your children walk 10 miles in the snow wearing pajama pants in temps ranging as low as -5 is not a mistake! He did not even bother to check on them...just drove on home. Perhaps this was not the "mistake" everyone is talking about...perhaps he planned it?? He deserves what he gets. But I don't think he should be sent to prison...take him to a remote area of Alaska and dress him like his children then leave him. Let us see how he handles the "mistake" he made. You notice he only banged his head on the table or showed emotion when hearing about what will happen to HIM.

[jonesloonybin]

Don't forget that it stated the "he and ANOTHER ADULT stayed to free the truck" What, one of them could not walk with the kids...guess his truck was more important. And he was not trying to hurry the truck out to take the kids since he just drove on home after.

[Carol in Cal.]

Bad judgment, but not fatally bad judgement to send them on this jaunt--we don't know ALL the circumstances, but if the truck was badly stuck, it may have been an act of trying to save them. But if so, why not go with them and work on the truck later, under better conditions?

 

And either way, most certainly, how could he have just assumed that they would arrive safely? How could he not have called the mom, and driven the rest of the way, watching for them? That I find inconceivable.

[beansprouts]

I think it was fatally bad judgement and outright negligence. I would certainly not trust this man to supervise children. However, I am not sure he is a danger to society as a whole.

[lionfamily1999]

I think it was fatally bad judgement and outright negligence. I would certainly not trust this man to supervise children. However, I am not sure he is a danger to society as a whole.

I don't quite agree, but since you always have the good 'law' questions, what benefit would society reap by imposing a life imprisonment on this man? What would be gained, what would be the purpose of sending him to prison?

 

This sounds very attackish, and I'm not trying to attack, but I am interested in your opinion, because your opinion tends to be very thought provoking and my brain could use some synapsis firing.

[mommaduck]

Sounds downright neglectful to me. 10miles! If he was that concerned about saving the children, he would have left the truck and walked with them.

[lionfamily1999]

Bad judgment, but not fatally bad judgement to send them on this jaunt--we don't know ALL the circumstances, but if the truck was badly stuck, it may have been an act of trying to save them. But if so, why not go with them and work on the truck later, under better conditions?

 

And either way, most certainly, how could he have just assumed that they would arrive safely? How could he not have called the mom, and driven the rest of the way, watching for them? That I find inconceivable.

I have to wonder how long he listened to 'Dad, we're cold' 'Dad, can we go now?' 'Dad, we're cold' 'Dad why don't we just walk' 'Dad' 'Dad' before he finally sent them on their way. I am surprised that he didn't check on them, and I have to wonder if he didn't 'check' the road on his way home. Not seeing them, perhaps, he assumed they had made it there okay. Then, of course he wouldn't call, because he would've known what an assinine thing he had done.

 

Not to justify his actions, but to consider the possible circumstances. Thank goodness the justice system in the US will at least to attempt to understand the situation before hanging him.

[beansprouts]

I don't quite agree, but since you always have the good 'law' questions, what benefit would society reap by imposing a life imprisonment on this man? What would be gained, what would be the purpose of sending him to prison?

 

This sounds very attackish, and I'm not trying to attack, but I am interested in your opinion, because your opinion tends to be very thought provoking and my brain could use some synapsis firing.

 

Julie, you are becoming one of my favorite people to disagree with :lol:

 

I just don't know. I think there are many people in prison who don't belong there. I think the point of incarceration should be to restrain people who would be a danger to themselves and others. However, we still need consequences for those who break the law.

 

In this case, the man is either too selfish or too stupid to care for young children. I don't think he is dangerous (based on this article alone). I might even invite him to have dinner at my home, but I would never leave my children in his care. What do we do with him?

[phathui5]

I thought murder was when you killed someone directly, like shooting them or running them over with a truck?

 

I don't think this sets a good precedent. Should parents who choose to live in dangerous neighborhoods be charged if their kids are shot by gang members? What about if someone lets their 10 year old walk to school and they get hit by a car? Should the parent go to jail then?

 

Sure, what this guy was stupid, even criminally so, but I don't think it's murder.

Edited December 30, 2008 by phathui5

[lionfamily1999]

Julie, you are becoming one of my favorite people to disagree with :lol:

 

I just don't know. I think there are many people in prison who don't belong there. I think the point of incarceration should be to restrain people who would be a danger to themselves and others. However, we still need consequences for those who break the law.

 

In this case, the man is either too selfish or too stupid to care for young children. I don't think he is dangerous (based on this article alone). I might even invite him to have dinner at my home, but I would never leave my children in his care. What do we do with him?

And here is where Julie's radical new public reform and justice system comes into play :) I vote for some community service, to be done in a local orphanage, foster home, children's hospital or other similar place. He should have to make life better for children whose parents were neglectful, abusive, etc. Double duty, he learns how to better care for his son, the other possible consequences of such thoughtless actions as his own, and is also punished through a forced interraction with kids that lived to tell about their parents' idiocy.

 

I like you too Bean and agree, it's fun to disagree with you. I hope you don't mistake my tone, but your answers are really mentally stimulating and while our opinions differ on the finer points, I think in general we have much in common.

[beansprouts]

And here is where Julie's radical new public reform and justice system comes into play :) I vote for some community service, to be done in a local orphanage, foster home, children's hospital or other similar place. He should have to make life better for children whose parents were neglectful, abusive, etc. Double duty, he learns how to better care for his son, the other possible consequences of such thoughtless actions as his own, and is also punished through a forced interraction with kids that lived to tell about their parents' idiocy.

 

 

:iagree: (Are you surprised???)

 

I think community service for non-violent criminals should be assigned much more often.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have to wonder how long he listened to 'Dad, we're cold' 'Dad, can we go now?' 'Dad, we're cold' 'Dad why don't we just walk' 'Dad' 'Dad' before he finally sent them on their way. I am surprised that he didn't check on them, and I have to wonder if he didn't 'check' the road on his way home. Not seeing them, perhaps, he assumed they had made it there okay. Then, of course he wouldn't call, because he would've known what an assinine thing he had done.

 

Not to justify his actions, but to consider the possible circumstances. Thank goodness the justice system in the US will at least to attempt to understand the situation before hanging him.

 

Parental impatience is no excuse.

[lionfamily1999]

:iagree: (Are you surprised???)

 

I think community service for non-violent criminals should be assigned much more often.

Definitely. Considering that part of the punishment is to 'pay a debt owed to society' the idea that any debt can be paid in jail is silly and could be better 'paid' with appropriate community service. That service should be related to the crime. I don't understand how a pot head is repaying society for being a pot head by picking up litter. Also, there can be no hope for reformation or alteration of character when they are put into a situation so drastically different from real life. May just as well set them infront of a computer to learn social skills (lol). Reformation could be better produced if the service were in such a manner to allow them to see the consquences of their actions, especially the extremes.

:grouphug:

[JudoMom]

I wonder if the guy has any history of being a negligent dad.

 

 

Probably not--didn't the kids live with him and not their Mom? I'd think if he had a history the kids would be living with their Mom.

[Danestress]

Over time we might get information that would make us feel more certain he is guilty of intentionally harming his children - maybe his computer will show that he read articles on getting away with murder, that he tried to get someone to kill the children in the past, that he told his girl friend not to worry about child support because he wouldn't be paying it much longer anyway, that he has killed another child.

 

Or we could get information that would make him look less guilty - that he thought they were only 2 miles from his girlfriend's house, that he is mentally ill, that the children were dressed more fully than we realize,that the son and father were fighting and the children marched off. None of these things would make him look entirely innocent of fault, but they might make us less inclined to think this was murder. He was charged with second degree murder, by the way, probably because they don't think he premeditated this death.

 

It could be that the prosecutor knows things we don't know that would make his charges look more reasonable. It might also be that he routinely over charges and then tries to plea things down.

[Pamela H in Texas]

He made a very unwise choice, and the results were tragic.

I am not sure that "murder" is an appropriate charge, though.

 

I agree....Had it been me, I wouldn't have sent the kids off in the first place; but had I, I would have followed the path they would have followed to take them the rest of the way or to make sure they made it safe and sound. To not do so under the circumstances certainly seems like neglect.

 

The (extreme!) negligence resulted in her death, so the murder charge makes sense to me.

 

 

When I think of murder, I think of trying to cause harm. I just can't think of a complete accident as murder. And usually the law doesn't either. The mom who answers the phone while her 3yo is in the tub is not considered a murderer if the child drowns. The dad who is working on the car is not a murderer if his 4yo wanders into the street after a ball and gets hit by a car. We all know people that do these kinds of things and defend their choices because "nothing bad ever happened." We're even supposed to be tolerant of other parents' choices! Getting into a car drunk is to know you might cause harm/death to someone; that should be murder. Hitting a man upside the head causing his death because you think he's sleeping with your wife is murder. Deciding to get the insurance money for hubby so planning his natural looking death is murder.

[lynn]

I was shocked 1. he thought they should walk 10Miles in snow. Did they say if he knew they were 10miles from their destination. 2. That he left and went back home without following up on the children or making sure someone knew they were on their way.

 

What charge is usually given when neglect leads to a death?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Probably not--didn't the kids live with him and not their Mom? I'd think if he had a history the kids would be living with their Mom.

 

All sorts of kids are stuck with parents and grandparents and others that shouldn't be parents at all. I have a great niece who doesn't have a chance in this world. She's fought over by 4 families, none who have any business raising a child. All of these people have histories which would keep any of us leaving our children with them for even a short time but the child is bounced between them all all the time, has changed custody a few times in her short life, etc.

 

I generally think better of people though. I think this guy just really messed up. Sadly, his daughter's life is the consequence of that. Nothing the state can do to him can hurt him more. Unfortunately, the state can make it even worse on the brother though :(

[Tree House Academy]

Did he MAKE them walk, though? Or did they say, "hey dad...we can just walk" and he allowed them to do so. Either way, he was responsible for her death, but I think the murder charge is too much. And life in prison...I guarantee this dad will spend the rest of his life in a living hell no matter where he lays his head at night. :(

 

I remember once when I was a teen, there was a flood in my town. The road out of town was blocked and my boyfriend at the time and I decided that we could just walk the flooded part over to the other side and then meet my mom and go home. We got out, got honestly knee deep in water, halfway across the highway, and it was all we could do to turn around and go back to the car. We honestly came close to drowning by the time it was all said and done. The flood was caused by a stream and the current alone was horrible. We had no idea...we were just kids...but we sure thought it would be no big deal. Maybe the brother and sister thought the same??? Maybe even the dad thought the same. Though I would never do this, maybe he felt safer since the older brother was with the daughter. ?

[lionfamily1999]

Parental impatience is no excuse.

No, but it could be a factor.

[crewmom]

 

Here is another article with more information.

[Danestress]

who didn't try to make the child's behavior a factor. It's always a factor in the eyes of the accused, and the court and jury will almost never think it's a relevant factor, particularly in children this age.

[lionfamily1999]

When considering whether or not the father is guilty of murder, though, the situation should be looked at as a whole. In stressful situations people tend to act, then think. The situation alone, a scary bump into a drift, the realization that the car is stuck, mom so close, but so far away, coupled with kids placing blame (perhaps well-place, but not at a great time) and demanding instant gratification (let's just go let's just go let's just go), could lead to a bad decision. It's not as though he hit them, or kicked them, or they ran because he threatened to use them as traction. He sent them on their way, most likely believing they would be fine.

[lionfamily1999]

Here is another article with more information.

I really feel for this family. What a horror.

[beansprouts]

Did you see this?

 

A timeline to tragedy

 

Dec. 25

 

9 a.m. - Vehicle became stuck in a snowdrift along West Magic Road, less than a mile from the Idaho Highway 75 turnoff, according to the Blaine County Sheriff's Office.

 

10:30 to 11 a.m. - Children start walking, according to their uncle and passenger, Kenneth Quintana.

 

12 to 1 p.m. - The vehicle is unstuck, according to Quintana.

 

1 to 2 p.m. - Children's mom, JoLeta Jenks, calls Aragon saying kids haven't arrived, according to Quintana. Aragon and Quintana drive back to where the children began walking and go on foot to look for them, according to the Blaine County Sheriff's Office.

 

7 p.m. - A friend of Jenks calls police saying the kids are missing. A Blaine County deputy and a snow plow head out to look for the kids, but they too become stuck after hitting a snow drift and slide off the road, according to the BCSO.

 

8:30 p.m. - Blaine County Search and Rescue set up on West Magic Road, one mile from the Highway 75, with one vehicle and two snowmobile teams, according to the BCSO.

 

Also, Quintana says he and Aragon stop their search for the children and meet up with police.

 

9:50 p.m. - The male child, Bear Aragon, is found in a Bureau of Land Management bathroom, near the intersection of West Magic Road and the Magic Dam Road in Camas County, 4.5 miles from where he began walking. He had hypothermia and was wearing only long underwear, having discarded his jacket, pants and shoes.

 

10:20 p.m. - Search dogs are deployed to look for the female child, Sage Aragon. The plan was to search from where Bear Aragon was found, back east towards Highway 75, after the boy told authorities he and his sister split up and she walked back to her dad's car.

 

Dec. 26

 

2 a.m. - Sage is found unconscious and hypothermic next to a barbed wire fence on the south side of West Magic Road, mostly covered in snow and barely visible. She was wearing a down coat, black shirt, pajama pants and snow boots, according to the BCSO.

 

4:15 a.m. - Sage is pronounced dead at St. Luke's Wood River Medical Center, according to the BCSO.

 

[Danestress]

if I were his attorney, I would be very careful about introducing any evidence about the children pestering the father. It's possible that could get that information in through the other adult in the care.

 

That's the kind of evidence that could badly backfire, and I would handle it with extreme care. Sure it might make the jury have some sympathy and understanding for the father. It also might make the jury mad at the father. It's really likely that the government might want to get that evidence in to make the case that the kids were being a annoying and the father was angry and sent them out into the snow in anger.

[beansprouts]

And this:

Quintana says he and Aragon searched and yelled out for the children for at least four hours, with towels wrapped around their heads, but they stopped as hypothermia set in. He said he had no cell phone reception in the search area.

 

'They found her (Sage Aragon) a mile and a half from where I turned around," Quintana said. "If we had kept going, we could have gotten her in time. I just couldn't go anymore, I was so tired. The whole time, we were yelling for the children, our eyes and throat were wind burnt."

 

and this:

 

Ultimately, the children separated, and Sage Aragon began walking back to the highway, according to the Blaine County Sheriff's Office.

 

"I just wish she would have stayed with her brother," said Quintana.

 

 

The girl was eleven years old and her brother was twelve. They were supposed to be able to take care of each other in a snowstorm that exhausted two grown men.

 

Sheer stupidity.

[lionfamily1999]

Oh yeah. I don't understand why the 'friend' didn't call earlier. I can understand parents assuming someone else would call, I can understand them preferring to search than to go in and call someone. Imagine, she was found just past where they'd stopped looking.

[Danestress]

totally horrible. I keep thinking how horrible it will be for the son, the rest of his life, to regret letting his sister try to go back, you know? It's not his fault at all, but I bet he struggles with that:( So so sad.

[lionfamily1999]

if I were his attorney, I would be very careful about introducing any evidence about the children pestering the father. It's possible that could get that information in through the other adult in the care.

 

That's the kind of evidence that could badly backfire, and I would handle it with extreme care. Sure it might make the jury have some sympathy and understanding for the father. It also might make the jury mad at the father. It's really likely that the government might want to get that evidence in to make the case that the kids were being a annoying and the father was angry and sent them out into the snow in anger.

I would be wary of not allowing the situation in its entirity to be aired. If only, because it seems that there is so much more to this. In the same way character witnesses will be called to say he wasn't normally a blundering idiot, a full view of the situation could offer more understanding. For me, why things happen should be clear before any judgement is made. His mental state (stress, etc) coupled with the holiday season (stress) coupled with the situation at hand (stress) could easily lead to a foolish act. Not so much in anger as in exasperation. There was no other option, how often people think that when stress puts its blinders over their eyes. He could have honestly believed he was just letting the kids get on with it.

 

Also, the second article mentioned that he believed their mother was going to meet them on the way. Although the veracity of that statement is in question since the mother denies it.

[lionfamily1999]

totally horrible. I keep thinking how horrible it will be for the son, the rest of his life, to regret letting his sister try to go back, you know? It's not his fault at all, but I bet he struggles with that:( So so sad.

I hope it is made crystal clear that the whole situation was a blundering mistake from one end to the other, that he was not at fault in the least.

 

Of course, it won't be. There will be people that blame him for letting his sister turn back. For not 'looking out' for his sib.

 

I hope he uses this for some good. I imagine it will haunt him forever.

[Renee in NC]

Here is another article with more information.

 

I was particularly interested where the cousin said that the father was talking to the mother and she was supposed to meet them, but the mother said she never talked to him. I imagine that is easily verified through phone records.

 

The story the cousin tells makes a little more sense - truck is stuck, mother is called, she agrees to meet them at a certain spot, mother doesn't. When father finds out that they didn't get there, he goes back to find them.

 

VERY different story than the first article. I won't pass judgement because I don't have all the facts. It may be negligence or it may have been a tragic accident. Or it could be the mother's fault! We just don't know.

[LaMere Academy]

He should have walked his children home, and got his truck later. He's getting what he deserves IMO.

[katilac]

Criminally negligent and morally reprehensible.

 

I do not believe he thought the mom was going to meet them along the road. If she had a car and was coming to get them, why on earth would they not just wait for her there? If you somehow thought it was preferable that they walk rather than sit in the car, that could be done in the area near the car, with one of the two available adults.

 

I live in Lousiana; it has snowed twice here in about ten years (and by 'snowed,' I mean half an inch at most, that lasted for a couple of hours). Yet, even with no direct experience, I certainly know that sending anyone, let alone children, walking into the snow is highly dangerous.

 

How many of us could walk ten miles with ease in normal weather? That's a pretty long walk, particularly for children. And in the snow? Insane.

 

He may or may not be in a personal hell for the rest of his life. I know some parents who would be, and some who would not. I don't know if a charge of murder is justified, but I'd be fine with jail time. First, it may be a deterrent for other parents faced with similar decisions. Second, I think that poor or neglectful decisions that harm or kill others must be atoned for, no matter how sorry one is.

 

I say jail time rather than community service because I used to deal with people in community service all the time. 99% of the time, community service is a joke. No matter how good the intent or original orders, the justice system does not have time to truly oversee and evaluate community service hours. Almost anything done for a non-profit qualifies, and if you have a buddy willing to sign your papers, you don't even have to go through the motions.

 

Edited to add that I can't BELIEVE none of the people involved thought to call 911 and tell them two children were stranded in the snow (even if they didn't know the kids were no longer by the car).

[lionfamily1999]

I say jail time rather than community service because I used to deal with people in community service all the time. 99% of the time, community service is a joke. No matter how good the intent or original orders, the justice system does not have time to truly oversee and evaluate community service hours. Almost anything done for a non-profit qualifies, and if you have a buddy willing to sign your papers, you don't even have to go through the motions.

 

I agree that the present community service system is a joke. It does not deal with the crime perpetrated, nor does it do anything to prevent the crimes from being commited multiple more times by the same criminal. That system could be useful, if completely revamped.

[Pretty in Pink]

What charge is usually given when neglect leads to a death?

 

I believe the term is negligent homicide, though it is only routinely applied to cases of ongoing and intentional neglect. We don't know enough to say if this situation fits that description. If there was a history of neglect I am sure we will find out soon enough.

 

I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that there were two adults present yet nobody went with these children. Also, why did it take them so long to contact the police and report the children missing? I can understand not wanting to admit that you sent the children out in that weather, but it was a life and death situation. I just don't get it. I lost my oldest son in a store when he was four or five and when I called his name and didn't get an answer the first thing I did was stop and employee and tell them I had lost my child. Yes it was embarrassing but his safety was more important than my pride.

[lionfamily1999]

I believe the term is negligent homicide, though it is only routinely applied to cases of ongoing and intentional neglect. We don't know enough to say if this situation fits that description. If there was a history of neglect I am sure we will find out soon enough.

 

I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that there were two adults present yet nobody went with these children. Also, why did it take them so long to contact the police and report the children missing? I can understand not wanting to admit that you sent the children out in that weather, but it was a life and death situation. I just don't get it. I lost my oldest son in a store when he was four or five and when I called his name and didn't get an answer the first thing I did was stop and employee and tell them I had lost my child. Yes it was embarrassing but his safety was more important than my pride.

His older daughter and his family all say he is a good man. I'd have to say, judging from a comment the kids' mom made, that he probably was an okay father in general.

 

As to the rest, hindsight is 20/20. I'm guessing he and his family are all thinking the same things.

[beansprouts]

His older daughter and his family all say he is a good man. I'd have to say, judging from a comment the kids' mom made, that he probably was an okay father in general.

 

As to the rest, hindsight is 20/20. I'm guessing he and his family are all thinking the same things.

 

I am not sure you can draw conclusions from this. I find that the most dysfunctional people have no idea how messed up they are. For them it is "normal".

[LizzyBee]

Also, why did it take them so long to contact the police and report the children missing?

 

I think sometimes people are in denial about how serious a situation is. some examples: When I was 12 yo, our house caught on fire very early Christmas morning. My Mom didn't think we should call 911 and get the (volunteer) firefighters out of bed on Christmas morning. Last summer, we were visiting my Mom, and an elderly couple didn't show up to a family reunion and no-one knew where they were. The family didn't call the police until they found the car the following afternoon, even though no-one had seen them since the morning before the reunion. When the couple was found, the woman had died of hypothermia (even though it was summer, it was cold at night) and the husband died 2 days later in the hospital. The family and community were devastated and there were a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda sentiments. I think sometimes people are just hesitant to believe the worst has or will happen, and as a result they are too slow to call for help. Of course, in the case at hand, we have 2 kids out in a serious snowstorm. I'm not excusing anyone's actions - just trying to understand what they might have been thinking.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think sometimes people are in denial about how serious a situation is. some examples: When I was 12 yo, our house caught on fire very early Christmas morning. My Mom didn't think we should call 911 and get the (volunteer) firefighters out of bed on Christmas morning. Last summer, we were visiting my Mom, and an elderly couple didn't show up to a family reunion and no-one knew where they were. The family didn't call the police until they found the car the following afternoon, even though no-one had seen them since the morning before the reunion. When the couple was found, the woman had died of hypothermia (even though it was summer, it was cold at night) and the husband died 2 days later in the hospital. The family and community were devastated and there were a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda sentiments. I think sometimes people are just hesitant to believe the worst has or will happen, and as a result they are too slow to call for help. Of course, in the case at hand, we have 2 kids out in a serious snowstorm. I'm not excusing anyone's actions - just trying to understand what they might have been thinking.

 

 

I remember a family event where an 80 year old with a history of cancer developed a fever of 105 and was bleary--very ill indeed! And no one would call a doctor, because she didn't want to go to the doctor and ruin the party. They were respecting her as best as they could.

 

Of course, when I got there I couldn't stand that, and so I called my own doctor to ask whether these symptoms were safe to wait with, given her age and condition. He told me to take her to the emergency room, stat. On receiving that information, her DH stepped in and asked her to agree to go, and she did.

 

But although I disagree with the collective judgment of those who stood around unable to take action, I do respect their motives.

 

Not so in the case of this tragedy, though.

[lionfamily1999]

I am not sure you can draw conclusions from this. I find that the most dysfunctional people have no idea how messed up they are. For them it is "normal".

Lol, agree to disagree. I have the exact opposite experience, especially where children are concerned. I have heard the most incredibly backwards people threaten to have children removed from their family members. Situations where you have to say six one half-dozen the other.

 

It was the little girl's mother's statement that got me. She has no reason to be understanding or kind to him. They were not married/living together and his stupidity led to her child's death. If she could show mercy and compassion, then I would have to assume he was an alright dad to that point.

[beansprouts]

It was the little girl's mother's statement that got me. She has no reason to be understanding or kind to him. They were not married/living together and his stupidity led to her child's death. If she could show mercy and compassion, then I would have to assume he was an alright dad to that point.

 

True.