Multiple questions in one post.

[TinyMama]

This is our first year homeschooling and my daughter is in K. I still very much have a public school mindset since I was public schooled my entire education. This leads me to my first question. 

1. Do kids need to cover all the sciences and histories, even if it doesn't interest them? I've seen a lot of posts on here about doing a specific history time period or type of science because their child has shown interest. That's great and all but shouldn't they know a little bit about each. Shouldn't they learn marine biology, botany, biology, etc? And same for History. If a child graduates after completing home education and has no clue about botany or the plant cycle because they showed no interest in plants, I would think they have educational gaps in their learning. Yes or no?

2. This question kind of goes hand and hand with the last one. When starting history, how do you know where to start? We're going to start history next year in first grade. I've known people who start at the very beginning, I've known people who have started with Louis and Clark because the parent is interested and I've even know people who start with the Constitution and Bill of Rights. As you can tell, I am very concerned about gaps in education. 

3. If your child begged you to start up an instrument and then told you 4 months later they hate it, would you push them to continue? My daughter is 5 and she has asked for piano lessons for months. We got her into lessons and now she says she hates practicing and doesn't like learning the notes. She said she wants to do guitar instead. I have told her that starting a new instrument over will be the same as when she started piano. Learning the notes and hand placements. She's progressing slowly in piano and is frustrated she isn't playing songs yet. On one hand, I want her to know that when she makes a commitment to something, she needs to see it through. On the other hand, I don't want to force it if she doesn't like it nor do I want to ignore something else she's passionate about. I'm not sure guitar is something she is passionate about but rather the next thing she's interested in. 

4. Anyone have any tips on how I can get out of the "public school system" mindset? I know homeschooling is so different but I still keep comparing the two. I don't want my daughter to fall behind even though I believe the public schooling system is behind. I feel like if she isn't doing worksheets or doing the things public school kids her age are doing, she's missing out. Deep down I know she's not but I can't squash these thoughts. She's social-ish... She does piano, storytime, tumbling and wants to start up ballet. She's interested in track but not old enough yet where we live. I want to get her into swimming lessons also. It seems the kids in the neighborhood are too busy with their school friends to come play with my child. We see kids at co-op but she's too shy to go up and talk to them. She's mostly hangs out with our family for majority of the day but I know she's bored. 

 

Thanks in advance for listening! 

[HomeAgain]

Do kids need to do all the sciences and histories?

I think they need to be well rounded.  I think information should be relevant, as much as possible.  And I think initial interest isn't guidance.  Clear as mud?  Sometimes my kids didn't know if they were interested in something until it was relevant and it was shared with them by someone who was interested.  I took my kids to museums and planetariums and wove science into literature and so on.  An interest developed because of this, and for things they were truly interested in (like chemistry) we were able to go deeper.  THERE ARE STILL GAPS.  My youngest knows all about the brain because of a class he took from Mayim Bialik and he got super interested in how the brain functions.  Yet I chuckled when at 13yo he called his shin his 'lower knee thigh' because yes, he learned bones, but it went right out of his head because he didn't care if it wasn't broken.

 

Where to begin in history?

It's up to you.  We did a year of "who am I?/where am I?/what's my place in the world? to situate him first.  This is my family.  We live in a house like this one I built of legos.  This is my street, in my town, in my state.  These are our customs and cultures.  By the end of that year he could read a basic map, understood different people do things differently, and what a community should look like.  And the next year we started a light run through ancient history to go through time chronologically over the next four years to the present. 

 

Do you make a kid practice?

I make my kids give a year commitment and reassess how it's going.  Learning an instrument is hard.  My youngest played violin for 6 years before a serious setback made him give it up.  But he would plateau often, or at least feel like he would.  I used to take periodic videos so that he could see not just how far he had come in fluency, but how his technique had changed.  It can be a slow process, too slow sometimes. He had an app to practice note reading: Flashnote Derby.  As he got more proficient he could set it to different difficulty levels. In the very beginning, though, I made cards for him with 100 squares and the exercise/song at the top.  At first it would be practice 10 times, and here's a small reward (like a piece of chocolate).  100 times was an ice cream sundae and getting to put the card on his board in his room.  Eventually we dropped the small reward and kept the ice cream sundaes (in a special tall glass just for the occasion).

 

Staying out of the public school mindset:

Learn intentionally.  There should be purpose behind each and every activity, worksheet, and assignment.  And if you decide the purpose is one thing, and not the skill being practice, you use the flexibility to change the activities.  For example, worksheets are great for practicing fine motor skills and working independently.  If the goal is to learn something from the worksheet and that's the only purpose, do something differently to meet the same goal.

[Nichola]

1. I think this is a philosophy of education question, and you will likely get different answers depending on what people believe to be true about education. My own opinion is that it is the parent’s job to present a broad range of topics to the child. Kids don’t know what they don’t know. When I’m planning our school year, I ask my kids if there is anything specific they want to learn about, and I incorporate their interests into my planning. But I have a broader view of what I want us to cover each year, and I fit their interests within that bigger plan. It’s also okay to let them learn more about their interests outside of school time. One of the great things about homeschooling is that kids have plenty of time for that.

2. There’s no right or wrong answer here. I’ve done something different with each kid. I do think it’s easier for kids to learn about other places and times if they first have some understanding of their own town, state, and country. There are a lot of great picture books that can cover this. If you live in the US, Beautiful Feet has a nice selection of picture books in their Early American History curriculum. 

3. Again, you will probably get a range of answers here, but in my opinion, 5 is very young to start an instrument. We’ve waited until age 8 with our kids, and I think it’s been easier because they progress more quickly and they also enjoy practicing, which means I don’t have to remind them to do it (always a plus!). In your situation, I would not push her to continue. I would take a break from it and reintroduce it in a few years.

4. I felt this way when we started homeschooling too. But I began to realize that teachers use worksheets because they don’t have the time to talk to each student individually. Worksheets are a system that allows them to check boxes (or keep kids busy). In homeschooling, we do have time to talk to our kids about what they’re learning. Letting them tell you what they noticed in the story or draw a picture about it will give you more insight into their understanding than worksheets because they’re using some creativity to tell the story or draw the picture, not just filling in blanks. They’re engaging their imaginations, and that’s not something worksheets can teach them. Also just some reassurance that it’s okay for kids to be bored sometimes—it helps them to be more creative in finding things to do.

 

Edited October 13 by Nichola

[Masers]

1. Do they need to cover all of it? No. That’s impossible. I think they should get a basic overview of all the major periods of history and science subjects, so they are at least exposed to it. But how that looks is up to you. We have used the sonlight history books, so we’re going chronologically through ancient history up until modern history. There are a ton of great history curriculums, and if you even loosely follow them, you can feel reasonably certain that they’re getting a good overview. Story of the World, Mystery of History, Notgrass, Masterbooks, Sonlight, My Father’s World, etc. I’d look into them and see what looks interesting to you to teach. That said, I see zero reason to cover history in the early elementary years…this should be social studies. Your community, your country, the things that interest her. Tour a post office. Learn about different jobs. 

Science is similar. We loosely (loosely!) follow the Ambleside online outline for science topics. So, for instance, this year we’re learning about cultivated crops, weather, and insects. That looks like lots of living books, documentaries, and some unit studies. (love Treehouse Schoolhouse for the younger years!) Again, look into curriculum if you’re worried you’re going to miss something. Sonlight, Masterbooks, Apologia, Blossom and Root, etc. In the early years, I think it should be all fun and interest led. This could look like unit studies from TGATB and Treehouse Schoolhouse. It could look like watching The Magic School Bus and Bill Nye. It could look like listening to Brains On podcast. Or joining No Sweat Nature Study. Go to the library and find all the books on storms, or bees, or the human body. It’s about introducing them to the big ideas and letting them dabble and deep dive into what sparks their interest. 
Then, when they get closer to high school, you can move into biology, chemistry, physics, etc. 

But I worked in a public school in a 3rd grade classroom when I was in grad school, and I can tell you that class did zero science aside from planting a bean sprout and spending about 2 weeks learning about the plant life cycle. I personally remember no REAL science until middle school. 

As far as the instruments go…I personally would make her stick it out for the year and then reassess. She’s only in kindergarten, so, you know. They can be a bit fickle. 😉 I ask my kids at the beginning of each year to choose the stuff they REALLY REALLY REALLY want to do, and then stick with it for the season/year. We have four kids, and I loathe running around and never being home in the evenings, so I want to make sure it’s something they’re very interested in and willing to commit to doing. If she still wants to do guitar next year, you could always try that. 

To get out of the public school mindset, I would really immerse yourself in podcasts and books. They’ve been really inspiring to me. Sarah Mackenzie’s Read-Aloud Revival podcast and book, “Teaching from Rest,” are great. Sally Clarkson’s podcast and “Whole-Hearted Education”. Durenda Wilson’s podcast and her “4 Hour School Day” book. The Wild and Free podcast and book (with the same title). There are so many others. Treehouse Schoolhouse has a great blog and Instagram. Just seeing what it can look like is really inspiring. I love going to homeschool conferences, too. And joining a co-op or homeschool community or just making homeschool friends is incredibly important for you AND for your daughter! I couldn’t (and wouldn’t want to) homeschool without our amazing homeschool community. 

The less our homeschool has looked like public school, the better. I started out with that mindset, too, and pushed my poor oldest child. Lots of tears and tantrums in preschool (Preschool!!!! What was I thinking?!), kindergarten, and first grade. Once I finally relaxed and gradually tweaked our homeschool to work for US—for ME and for THEM, it got soooo much better. Our workload lightened, but what we did do was much better and richer. My younger kids benefitted from that slower and more gentle and fun approach to school. AND they have enjoyed learning more AND have actually done BETTER academically. 

So, just as an example, for my youngest kindergartner last year, school looked like this:

-Chores (for him, just self-care and tidy his room. This year added taking care of the chickens. 😉

-30/45 minutes or sit-down time with mom. We did some math and language arts from TGATB. He did a little handwriting and Explode the Code. 

-Rest of the morning was spent playing with his siblings, playing outside, play play play. I could not be a bigger believer in play. Ha. While I’m sitting down with each child, the rest is their time to play. Older kids have independent work to do, of course. 

-Lunch. Rest. I also could not be a bigger believer in an hour break for rest and reading and quiet time. We have been doing this for many years. 

-45 minutes/1 hour of read-aloud time with his older brothers. We read history, bible, science, and fun read-alouds together. We follow a loop system, so if we get to it, we get to it. If we don’t, we don’t.

-Afternoon is for lessons, activities, play dates, and more playtime. He does soccer, swimming lessons, piano lessons, Awana. We do a co-op once a week. We have lots of park play dates and friend time. 

And that’s school. It looks nothing like public school, but it has worked beautifully for us. He is an incredibly good reader, and very bright. My older boys are also doing well, and they have NOT been hindered by a lack of worksheets and workbooks! They all are voracious readers and I am confident that they can (and already do) learn independently about anything and everything hat interests them.

It’s a beautiful journey!! Enjoy the ride!!!

[8filltheheart]

My recommendation would be to make this yr more about educating yourself about philosophies of education and how they impact pedagogical decisions. I am very much an eclectic homeschooler who pulls different ideas together to fit our family's needs and lifestyle. Read about Charlotte Mason's philosophy, neoclassical, John Holt, Raymond Moore, etc. Find what fits you.

I'm very much not a school at home person. We were very relaxed in K2.....just math, phonics, reading, and handwriting and religion. We spent lots of time in nature learning to observe. Playing independently and learning to self-regulate were huge life skill goals.

During 3-5, academics picked up. History and science are added. Learning to write paragraphs became a priority. Literature starts to become a more developed focus.

6-8 Foreign lang was added. Academics takes a full day. I encourage developing interests by really getting their input on what we study.

High school is intense. Our kids are high academic achievers. My current 9th grader is academically advanced and a musician. Music practice consumes about 3 hrs per day.

In terms of an instrument....we are not a musical family, but our youngest is all things musical. She begged to learn violin at age 8. She only practiced about 10 mins per day. In hindsight, it makes her behind students who really want to pursue violin performance. Most start around age 3!! By 8, they are practicing 45- 60 mins per day!  So....I dont know the answer. Our dd picks things up quickly and has passed kids who have been playing 4-5 yrs longer than her. But, it has taken serious practice over the past 18 months to get there. But, she is still way behind serious violinists her age.

Edited October 13 by 8filltheheart

[AnneGG]

There are many different flavors of homeschooling. I know plenty of homeschoolers that are following a school at home approach. They seem to be doing just fine. So, I wouldn’t say you are “wrong” in your feelings or beliefs. If you’re comfortable following school at home, and your child is learning, then follow it. 
 

I do not worry about gaps. We spent nearly two years studying American history and still didn’t cover everything. There is no way. We “follow” a 4 year history cycle but if we need or want to spend a little longer in a time period, then we do. On the flip side, some years we’ve only done every other chapter in our history spine book. Same thing with science. Public school can’t cover everything either. Besides that, high school and introductory college courses in science & history are just that…. Introductory. No prerequisites are required. Having the curiosity, discipline, and stamina to learn is just as important, if not more important, than already knowing the material.

[sweet2ndchance]

Yes, they will have gaps in their education, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Even traditionally educated students will have gaps because it is impossible to cover everything. That's why my goal was to teach my children to be lifelong learners, not to cram as much information as I could into their first 18 years of life. I prioritized skills like reading and writing, content subjects were gravy. That's not to say they weren't important, just that I didn't cover everything explicitly all the time. This approach didn't result in a swiss cheese education but in students who were strong in the skill subjects and could learn for themselves and who wanted to learn. Their interests were wide and varied because we had a family culture of learning. My kids liked to watch documentaries on history and science as their hour of tv a day. They checked out books from the library on a variety of subjects. We covered the basics in science and history but if they had an intense interest in something, we followed that rabbit trail for a while.

As for getting out of the public school mindset, I suggest you surround yourself with homeschool philosophy and ideology. Educate yourself on the many different educational models that exist. They have all turned out excellent students so it's less of a matter of which one is "right" and more which one speaks to you and your child(ren). You can check books out of the library, read blogs, listen to podcasts... whatever way you consume information is fine. 

Where you start history in first grade is of little consequence. Chances are great they will have little memory of what they actually studied in first grade history. Start where it seems logical, start where it seems fun, start where there is an interest. These are all valid options. We did Five in a Row for history in first grade. My kids have flash bulb memories of lessons that really interested them but that's it. What they do remember was that learning was a fun experience and something they enjoyed.

Personally, I think 5 years old is too young for traditional music lessons so I wouldn't push a five year old to keep going because I don't believe most five year olds are ready for such a commitment. There are always exceptions but I think 8 years old is the youngest I would start traditional music lessons. And this is from someone with a strong music background! I didn't start playing an instrument until I was 10 years old and I was still able to excel at music, maybe even more so because I was already strong in skill subjects like reading, writing and math so I was "ready" to learn another skill of reading music.

Sorry this is a bit disjointed, I have an 11yo trying to talk my ear off as I write this.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

Do kids need to cover all the sciences and histories, even if it doesn't interest them?

No. It is often a good idea to do several sciences and histories of different places and times (it's hard to know how deep an interest is without trying it), but you have until your child is 18 to do this. For the first 2-3 years, the most important things are maths, language, physical activity, character and fun. If you make space for those things, everything else is a bonus (though it's possible to slip some of these into those subjects anyway - some reading can be in science and history, nature walks and trips to local sites of historical interest combine physical activity and science/history, etc.). A child who can read and understand numbers well, who is generally content and willing to at least try to behave well, will find it easier to learn history and science at whichever point you decide to teach those subjects in detail. Nobody can possibly learn everything there is to know in science or history in one lifetime, so you can relax and enjoy this phase of life as you learn to teach the child in front of you, and your child learns how to be taught by the adult who cares about them the way you do.

Geography is another subject that can be treated the same way as science and history - it's good for a child to know a certain amount about it, but in the early years, getting a bit of experience in ways that also combine other things (like learning the most important buildings in the village/town/city nearest you by visiting them, or reading some books that happen to be about geography) is a good way to cover it.
 

When starting history, how do you know where to start?

You can start where you like and then go to other parts of history. Chronological history helps develop a systematic idea of how history flows, Regional history (be that local or national-based) gives a strong sense of place. Global history can give a taste of many places. Going by your interest means your child will have a good role model for enthusiasm for learning.  Question-based history allows linking of history to things a child might ask about a subject in the past (at this age, a public school near me is teaching "How does one become an explorer?" and using that as a lens through which to look at all sorts of explorations across history). Opportunistic learning means being able to take advantage of ways of discovering history that a book alone cannot convey. Following a curriculum means extra guidance. It's even possible to start with family history - with what various members of your family used to do, and work from there.

All have their strengths. You don't even have to pick one and stick with it. As long as you keep promises you make to your child about what you will cover, it's OK to test approaches to see what works for you and your child.

 

If your child begged you to start up an instrument and then told you 4 months later they hate it, would you push them to continue?

No. I'd encourage them to stay engaged with music, without paying any money for a new instrument. That could mean:

- spending time listening to a variety of music you already have or can easily obtain (it can help to give the child something to do with their hands that does not involve words, like drawing pens and paper, or clay to make pottery, while the music plays)
- trying an instrument you have in the house (if you have an appropriately-sized guitar - if your child can't span all 4 strings on the guitar you have, wait until she has grown a bit),
- making rhythmic music by clapping/stamping/using a home-made percussive instrument like a small plastic bottle half-filled with uncooked rice
- home-make an instrument like the small plastic bottle half-filled with uncooked rice
- singing children's songs or simple folk songs
- read about music
- learn some theory
- doing an activity which can include music, like dance or drama

I'd also want to have a quick think about why the child was not learning songs 4 months into learning the instrument. A lot of people (even adults) would be frustrated at not being able to play a song, even if this was typical for the particular curriculum you or your tutor recommended. For small children, one possible reason can be handspan. Little hands simply can't get to many keys without moving the hands, which makes playing songs particularly difficult. If your child can reach 4 keys without moving her hand, it might be possible to salvage the piano situation by buying a basic keyboard book (such as The Complete Keyboard Player, Book 1) and teaching the songs in it (in a basic book, they're usually arranged with the easiest one first). Concentrate on one hand at a time, right hand first, and don't worry about combining them yet (that can be worked upon when each hand's part is fully understood for a given song). Even so, I'd give it a few weeks before introducing the keyboard book - let a different aspect of music have the limelight for a while.

If she can't reach 4 keys without moving her hand, simply switch to a different aspect of music. Let her know you're happy that she tried. If you're not switching her to guitar (because of handspan, not having a guitar or another reason), let her know the reason briefly. Handspans increase with growth, so it's not like you're denying her guitar forever, and you can certainly let her listen to guitar music or read about it to increase her appreciation of it.

You can return to the other curriculum later (or choose a different one).

I would not worry too much about how much practising is happening, unless it looks like becoming a professional performance musician is on the cards. Music teaching and composition are viable professions for students who get serious about practising at any point before their teens, and personal enjoyment can be gained from people who play instruments starting at any age (but it helps if they played it at some point in their childhood and associated it with enjoyment).

 

Anyone have any tips on how I can get out of the "public school system" mindset?

Spending time here will help. Experimenting with different methods of doing things will also help. Initially, that may be small things like putting a hands-on activity in a class you'd normally do by reading.

Your child is doing a lot outside the house. Some children are shy, some benefit from being specifically taught some techniques to help them make friends (said techniques may change slightly depending on where you think the most promising places are for her to make friends out of the opportunities she already has).

If you see a knowledge gap, you can decide whether it matters to you or not at the time, and if it does, how to address it. Every homeschooler has this debate with themselves at some point, so congratulations, you've gone through one of the rites of passage of being a homeschooler. (It's healthy, it shows you care, and it's happily one you will quite naturally resolve when there's a demonstrable knowledge gap that's worth fixing).
 

Finally, please extend yourself some grace. If at 18 your child can read, write, do maths, is a pleasure to be around, has good character, understands how to be good and law-abiding, can look after themselves, care about other people, have some street-smarts, know how to make friends, want to learn are capable of working a straightforward job even if it is dull,  knows how to get to the life she wants and has at least some of what she needs to get there, you'll have done a very good job. For most students, 12 years is plenty of time to do most of this job (no path can guarantee achieving all of it). You are also capable of doing this job, and you don't need to finish it this year or next. You've got this 🙂

Edited October 13 by ieta_cassiopeia
Removed repetition

[Clarita]

8 hours ago, TinyMama said:

Do kids need to cover all the sciences and histories, even if it doesn't interest them?

I lean toward the answer of no. You should show/tell them a bunch of things, but it doesn't matter if some things they don't remember and it's OK to just tell them about something but if they aren't interested to just leave it at that. For example in our household that's a lot of botany stuff. I read to my children about plants occasionally and I tell them these are roots and this is a stem sort of thing, but we never grow a plant and observe it every day. MY children aren't really interested in that. Whereas a my son a dinosaur lover, we made "fossils", talked about dinosaur/animal traits that we could discover with bones and fossils, visited tar pits, etc. 

With science and history everyone has gaps. No one knows all about all the sciences or even their specific field of science. Collectively we have gaps in our knowledge of science and history.

9 hours ago, TinyMama said:

When starting history, how do you know where to start?

Where ever you want. You can google and see a lot of opinions between local to worldwide and the history cycle. In the end it's going to be OK either way just find your preference. We started with US history in K/pre-K because learning history to learn social studies was more interesting for our family. Notgrass had a nice curriculum that my littles could follow for US History. Now since 1st grades/K we've been doing the Ancient/Medieval/Modern history cycle. That's really because we live in the US, most of my family live in China, and a bunch of our friends had moved to Germany, so it didn't seem like it made sense for us to focus on California and US for so long, since we talk to people outside the US so much. (It's a really loosy goosy reason though.)

9 hours ago, TinyMama said:

3. If your child begged you to start up an instrument and then told you 4 months later they hate it, would you push them to continue?

I did not make my child continue. It really depends on how much resources I put into the activity though. For DD it was piano and I play the piano so even at the start it was a "let's try this" and it doesn't matter if they didn't like it because the piano would be there no matter what. When she wanted a pair of ice skates though, we talked about how much she was willing to commit to it because we are sinking resources into it. We are also constantly talking to her about how people get good at things by working at them. Most people, even if they are fabulous now, did not start out amazing when they started. 

9 hours ago, TinyMama said:

Anyone have any tips on how I can get out of the "public school system" mindset?

I thought this would be more of an issue than it is. I've only ever gone to public school even through college. Mostly, I LOVED school as a child. So, naturally I started off very schooly. We started weeding things out that just didn't jive with us and isn't necessary (my child did not need to color sheets of paper to learn how to add, for example). I started involving my children in deciding what we were going to use. I'd show them the curriculum samples, and the ways that could learn things, so far that has worked for us. 

If looking like a traditional school works for your family, then it works. I wouldn't stress out about specifically moving away from that. To me it just came naturally from I'm only teaching 2 students I don't need all the school busywork to teach them what they needed to know and keep them busy. I could read aloud books beyond their grade level. I don't need tests and worksheets to access their knowledge, etc. I also stopped being able to compare my children to a "grade level" because I moved at their pace and that ended up meaning math, reading and writing became all different levels. Progress isn't and wasn't always linear either. For example my son dislikes the physical act of writing and has little stamina for it. So whenever his stamina improves in physically writing his writing ability jumps, because he loves to read and his thinking skills/spelling/grammar are better than his writing stamina. So his first original written sentences read more like "The next day the mouse went to a big party and stepped in a trap," vs. "The cat ran." In Kindergarten he didn't really write sentences (maybe I made him write one, it was not in one sitting). 

[wendyroo]

1. Do kids need to cover all the sciences and histories, even if it doesn't interest them? 

A thought experiment... You have a kiddo who LOVES physics and Einstein and black holes, and really has very little interest in biology or chemistry. But, by golly, you are determined to fill every gap to make them evenly well rounded, so you force them to slog through equal amounts of all the sciences. Except that no matter how much exposure you give them to biology and chemistry, they learn little and retain even less because they really don't care. And you start to panic because what if they grow up and don't know that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell?!?! But then it dawns on you that that is about all the biology you remember from high school (and that factoid has never played a crucial role in your life) because you weren't interested in biology either. Hmmm.

I pondered that scenario a decade ago and chose a very different path for our homeschool. All kids (and adults) end up with gaps in their knowledge because there is no way to learn everything. I think it is much, much more important to cultivate curiosity and the ability to learn information and skills one desires.

So, yes, I casually expose my K-8 kids to all the subjects, but mostly through fun books, games, YouTube videos, news stories, extracurriculars, etc. And, yes, in high school my students "cover" the subjects that society has deemed required...but, I always remember that "required" subjects are a social construct. Realistically, for the vast majority of people, Statistics (rarely required) is much more useful than Algebra 2 (often required). Cell biology (a huge focus of required high school biology) isn't intrinsically more important or pragmatic than computer science, engineering, media literacy, climate science, etc. which are not required.

2. When starting history, how do you know where to start?

Something to consider...there is huge gulf between teaching and learning, and you only have control of what you try to teach your child, not what they learn. As an example, my youngest two kiddos and I have spent the last month studying ancient, indigenous American history. We have read the same books, watched the same videos, had the same discussions, but the two kids have learned vastly different things. My 8 year old daughter is animal/ecology focused, so to her, this was a story of mammoths going extinct due to climate change and overhunting. My 11 year old son, OTOH, is fascinated by archeology, so his focus was on the burial mounds and artifacts and clues to how people lived thousands of years ago.

So take heart - you can start anywhere you want and your daughter will take away from it exactly what her brain is hungry to learn. 

3. If your child begged you to start up an instrument and then told you 4 months later they hate it, would you push them to continue?

I have two contrasting experiences that guide my choices on this matter. When my son was 5 he started playing around on our electric keyboard and quickly started showing musical intensity and talent. We supported him with resources he could use to self-teach, but avoided any learning opportunity that would force on him commitment or obligations. It was only after three years of passion and dedication and progress, when at the age of 8 DS was voluntarily playing and practicing the piano ~20 hours a week, that we signed him up for private lessons. For us, this path has had a few disadvantages, but far more advantages.

OTOH, around age 5 (during the pandemic) my daughter fell in love with gymnastics. After a year of being stuck at home, convinced that DD was going to break her neck trying to learn various skills on her own, I started her in lowkey rec classes at age 6. However, her strength, flexibility and talent had her quickly progressing up through the levels, and after only 9 months, her coach recommended she join the competitive team. DD begged to join the team, and I had to admit that the low-keyness of the rec classes did seem to be hindering DD's progress, so we agreed. It turned out to be a mistake. At 7, DD liked the fun of gymnastics, but not the work. She wanted to be good at it, but she didn't want it enough to prioritize practice. She desperately wanted a medal, but could not wrap her head around the idea that the devil was in the details and that if she wanted to win she had to be crisp and accurate and consistent...none of which she had any interest in. I spent the first half of the season trying to get DD to focus and practice and pay attention to her form, but after that I gave up. DD was still on the team, but it was clear to everyone that she was just there for fun and exercise, not honing her skills or competing. This year, DD is back in the rec classes where she probably should have been all along until she demonstrated not just talent but also commitment.

4. Anyone have any tips on how I can get out of the "public school system" mindset?

You are discussing two different issues here:

Academics -
I would spend some time thinking about what skills and knowledge you really want your daughter to have down the road, and consider if public school methods are the best way to get there.

For example, teaching my kids to be strong academic writers is a priority for me. I firmly believe that they will need that skill in college and most professions. So starting in elementary, I use a lot of our one-on-one time in service of learning to write: reading to them, learning grammar, discussing strong mentor sentences, buddy writing, helping them revise their writing, etc. How could a public school possibly spend that much time individually with each student?!?! Of course they use worksheets - not because they are the best choice, but because they are the only choice in that environment.

I have a kiddo in the public school, and I am sometimes taken aback by just how confined the whole system is by their limitations. Last year, my son's middle school boasted in the district newsletter about their amazing cross-curricular integration because the gym teacher had arranged to take the kids out to run on the track (at their own school) one period to support their reading in ELA of a short story about a student who competes in track and field. That is a very low bar. They were impressed that they had enriched their student's reading, not by bringing in the author of the book or even a high school runner to talk to them about the experience, not by taking a field trip, not by having in depth discussions about the reading (they just have endless online vocabulary quizzes)...no, none of that, but the students did get to go outside and run on their own track...which they had already done for a full "unit" in the fall, but they now got to do in the snow because then they could call it cross-curricular!

We have very few limitations on our learning. I can spend all of math time with one child and one interesting problem seeing if we can illustrate the concept with Legos. We can get hopelessly sidetracked from our read aloud because there was a picture of a gift in the book and it is now imperative that we practice curling ribbon with scissors. My kids can do copy work about Star Wars and Doc McStuffins. We can drop school entirely for a week when the washer leaks and we get to learn all about comparison shopping for a new appliance and replacing linoleum flooring. Homeschooling is not something we carve out a couple hours a day to "do"; homeschooling is the life we lead.

Social - 
"We see kids at co-op but she's too shy to go up and talk to them." How do you know she wouldn't be the same way at school?
There is not one right way to socialize, and not going up and talking to other kids doesn't mean she is not getting what she needs from the environment and interactions. Help her develop into the best version of herself, whatever that may look like.

I have an autistic 15 year old who had no friends until last year. He was willing to participate in extracurriculars, but had little interest in doing so. He was frequently in weekly classes for an entire year without learning the names of any of his classmates. Now he is passionate about Dungeons & Dragons, has a core group of 6 close friends, almost entirely independently manages his dual enrollment college classes, tutors a Spanish-speaking refugee youth in math, and is starting to drive and fill out forms and buy birthday gifts for his friends and navigate the world very successfully.

(Then I have a public schooled 13 year old.)

I have an 11 year old son who doesn't have any close same-age friends. He enjoys playing with his peers at co-op recess, eating lunch with them, being in board game club, etc, but ultimately his passion is music, and until he finds a similar-level musical peer group, he will always be a bit disconnected from his classmates. I'm not worried because for the time being he has a number of very strong relationships with his musical teachers/mentors that round out the social connections he needs.

Then I have an incredibly social almost-9 year old daughter. She is in 26 hours of extracurriculars a week because friends and movement are what she needs. I am so thankful that our homeschool community offers sooooo many options. DD takes an immersion Spanish music and movement class and is learning a Spanish sword dance with her best friend. She is in gymnastics and rock climbing and ninja and roller skating each week. She is in a wonderfully small movie making class with three other girls who are learning all about acting and costumes and cinematography; last week they made a mini-movie where DD was rude to a barista who then poisoned her!

Different kids, different needs, different paths.

[Amanda1989]

On 10/13/2024 at 11:32 AM, TinyMama said:

3. If your child begged you to start up an instrument and then told you 4 months later they hate it, would you push them to continue? My daughter is 5 and she has asked for piano lessons for months. We got her into lessons and now she says she hates practicing and doesn't like learning the notes. She said she wants to do guitar instead. I have told her that starting a new instrument over will be the same as when she started piano. Learning the notes and hand placements. She's progressing slowly in piano and is frustrated she isn't playing songs yet. On one hand, I want her to know that when she makes a commitment to something, she needs to see it through. On the other hand, I don't want to force it if she doesn't like it nor do I want to ignore something else she's passionate about. I'm not sure guitar is something she is passionate about but rather the next thing she's interested in. 

 

100% yes. But this might be just me. I started both my kids at age 3 on an instrument. My daughter started piano at 3 and my son started cello through the suzuki method. My daughter hated piano, but I forced her to stick with is for 1.5-2 years-ish. I finally told her she can "quit" piano but only if she picks a different instrument. She picked harp and her piano training really helped her. it's been almost 3 years now and she loves the harp. To me, music training is just as important as learning to read. Would you allow her to quit phonics because she's having a hard time? No you wouldn't. You might need to switch teachers, or instruments. But do NOT let her just "quit". I made mine stick it out for more than a year.

[caffeineandbooks]

1 hour ago, Amanda1989 said:

Would you allow her to quit phonics because she's having a hard time? No you wouldn't. You might need to switch teachers, or instruments. But do NOT let her just "quit". I made mine stick it out for more than a year.

No, I wouldn't let a kid stop learning to read if they found it hard.  But learning to read in my house is a ten minute per day commitment, done cooperatively with me, and I think that's an appropriate ask for a five year old.  If learning piano equates to practising solo for an hour a day, and the kid hates it, I'd be looking at whether that's an age appropriate expectation.  You wouldn't make a two year old learn phonics.  Not all five year olds are ready to learn piano.

[wendyroo]

4 hours ago, Amanda1989 said:

Would you allow her to quit phonics because she's having a hard time? No you wouldn't. You might need to switch teachers, or instruments. But do NOT let her just "quit". I made mine stick it out for more than a year.

At my house, practicing phonics is a nearly daily requirement for a five year old...but often they would not even recognize activities that I count as "phonics" as school at all: writing words in shaving cream, trying to contort their body to make words on a Twister mat with letters taped to each circle, adding items to a grocery list, buddy reading a picture book with me, playing the phonics version of 3 or 4 letter Wordle that DH coded for me to use with beginning readers, etc.

Also, fine motor strengthening activities are a nearly daily requirement for my five year olds, and playing piano is one available activity that fulfills that goal, but there are a ton of other activities that kids may gravitate toward: arts and crafts, cooking, play dough, building/manipulating small pieces, etc.

I do value exposure to music (and art) for young children, but I don't limit that to playing instruments. I feel strongly that children will learn musical skills much faster and better if they start with a foundation of enjoyment of and curiosity about music. So, I am very comfortable with exposing kids to singing, clapping rhythms, experimenting with simple instruments, listening to kid-friendly orchestral music, marching along to chants, etc until I feel they are ready (or not) to commit to more serious instrument lessons.

[Amanda1989]

18 hours ago, caffeineandbooks said:

No, I wouldn't let a kid stop learning to read if they found it hard.  But learning to read in my house is a ten minute per day commitment, done cooperatively with me, and I think that's an appropriate ask for a five year old.  If learning piano equates to practising solo for an hour a day, and the kid hates it, I'd be looking at whether that's an age appropriate expectation.  You wouldn't make a two year old learn phonics.  Not all five year olds are ready to learn piano.

What? Who ever said a 5 year old practices piano an hour a day? my 7 year old who has been playing since 3 years old doesnt even practice anywhere near an hour a day. The problem I see is people are assuming you make your kid practice for an extended length of time. when you are just starting out you sing the "musical alphabet" a-g going up the piano daily and then practice your song once or twice... this takes.... 5-10 minutes MAYBE. My 7 year old practices 20-25 minutes a day... NO WHERE NEAR an hour. An instrument should not be a dreaded tasks... Now I understand why everyone jumped my case... But no, no one expects even an adult to practice an hour a day, maybe a professional....

Edited October 15 by Amanda1989

[Dmmetler]

On 10/13/2024 at 10:32 AM, TinyMama said:

 

3. If your child begged you to start up an instrument and then told you 4 months later they hate it, would you push them to continue? My daughter is 5 and she has asked for piano lessons for months. We got her into lessons and now she says she hates practicing and doesn't like learning the notes. She said she wants to do guitar instead. I have told her that starting a new instrument over will be the same as when she started piano. Learning the notes and hand placements. She's progressing slowly in piano and is frustrated she isn't playing songs yet. On one hand, I want her to know that when she makes a commitment to something, she needs to see it through. On the other hand, I don't want to force it if she doesn't like it nor do I want to ignore something else she's passionate about. I'm not sure guitar is something she is passionate about but rather the next thing she's interested in. 

 

I'm going to address this one as a piano teacher who specializes in young and special needs beginners. 

 

What method/book is she using? What skills does she have? There are songs she can play, and entire books that would work well even if she's still just using black keys or letter notes. If you give me specifics, I may be able to help more. I'm assuming by songs she means "Songs she recognizes". At age 5, one of the big struggles a lot of kids have is that piano books often begin on the black keys, and it's basically impossible to keep a good hand position on black keys only when your hands are that small and still have as much cartilage as they do at age 5, so if you have a teacher who doesn't realize this and requires that they get that skill solid before moving on, they're going to move VERY slowly simply because you can't rush bone growth. Moving to the white keys is often easier-but ultimately, part of teaching a 5 yr old is recognizing that they're not going to have a perfect hand shape until their hands grow a bit more. 

 

Many piano books have accompaniment tracks available, and that can really be motivating in the early stages where so many of the songs are honestly really, really boring. Some books have apps available. Alfred (Basics, premier, Music for little mozarts), Hal Leonard, and Piano Pronto are all in the Piano Maestro app. Faber has their own app, as does SuperSonics. You can also often find recordings on youtube where a piano teacher has recorded the accompaniment tracks for their students and set up a playlist (Wunderkeys is well covered this way, and also has some of their recordings on SoundCloud. Suzuki both has CDs/MP3s and is well covered on Youtube). 

 

If she wants familiar songs, Free sheet music & songpacks for preschool & elementary school music students – Prodigies Music is a good resource. Prodigies uses color coded music, treble clef only. I find these are nice for my preschoolers/kindergartners who are learning keyboard geography because they have to figure out where the keys are that they need for the song and where to move their hands-but once they find the place, they can usually play mostly by ear. This can keep them going while they're learning to play. 

Pre-reading Songs I Already Know - Susan Paradis Piano Teaching Resources-this is another good option that uses Alpha notes. 

The Toolkit - WunderKeys Has a WEALTH of piano games and activities, microleveled so level A is just black keys and finger numbers, level B adds quarter and half notes, level C is alpha notes, etc. This is a site for teachers, but it's WELL worth signing up as a parent, too. 

 

Piano Homework Pages - Teach Piano Today-this is another site by the same folks as the Wunderkeys one. It's generally focused on older students, but again, has some great stuff.

 

This is a paid site, but has a lot of really cute, useful stuff. Products Archive - Susan Paradis Piano Teaching Resources

 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

18 hours ago, caffeineandbooks said:

No, I wouldn't let a kid stop learning to read if they found it hard.  But learning to read in my house is a ten minute per day commitment, done cooperatively with me, and I think that's an appropriate ask for a five year old.  If learning piano equates to practising solo for an hour a day, and the kid hates it, I'd be looking at whether that's an age appropriate expectation.  You wouldn't make a two year old learn phonics.  Not all five year olds are ready to learn piano.

I'm a piano teacher, and we don't even spend a 30 minute lesson just on the piano. In a 30 minute lesson with a 5 yr old, we'll review the current songs, play a game or two, probably use other instruments to explore our songs and music reading, move on a floor keyboard or floor staff, and then play some new songs each week. At home, I ask maybe 10 minutes at most, although I encourage other music making as well, like listening to music in the car, exploring with rhythm instruments, moving to music, and playing games (and I'll happily send home materials for parents to use at home-I have a large lending library).

 

I do have some older kids/teens who practice an hour+ a day-the kids who want to study music in college really need to spend several hours a day on it by high school age (and most of them are playing piano plus another instrument and are doing school band or orchestra and youth symphony/wind band). But I don't have a single young child who does. 

[wendyroo]

34 minutes ago, Amanda1989 said:

What? Who ever said a 5 year old practices piano an hour a day? my 7 year old who has been playing since 3 years old doesnt even practice anywhere near an hour a day. The problem I see is people are assuming you make your kid practice for an extended length of time. when you are just starting out you sing the "musical alphabet" a-g going up the piano daily and then practice your song once or twice... this takes.... 5-10 minutes MAYBE. My 7 year old practices 20-25 minutes a day... NO WHERE NEAR an hour. An instrument should not be a dreaded tasks... Now I understand why everyone jumped my case... But no, no one expects even an adult to practice an hour a day, maybe a professional....

I never assumed a 5 year old was practicing an hour a day. (That is how long my 11 year old practices piano each day, plus another 30 minutes of violin, plus another 30 minutes of composing, but he is in music lessons for 4 hours a week, so his practice time needs to be commensurate, and his goal is a professional music career.)

That said, I stand by that I would not force a 5 year old to continue piano lessons if they hated them as the original poster said. My ultimate goal is for my children to enjoy learning enough that they voluntarily choose productive, engaging activities. There are, of course, skills that they simply have to learn even if they hate them, but I choose those battles very carefully, especially with a five year old. They have to learn reading, math and writing/pre-writing/fine motor, but I will bend over backwards to make those as enjoyable as possible so I don't sour their early experiences with those subjects. That goes doubly so for all other subject in which I am only aiming for exposure at that age anyway. I think at least for some kids, forcing them to continue lessons that they hate (music, art, history, science, coding, etc, at home or with an outside teacher) is a fast track way to ensure they have a permanent chip on their shoulder regarding that subject.

OTOH, I am certainly not opposed to forcing kids to continue lessons for a short time to be respectful to the teacher (and give the lessons a fair chance). For my 9 year old I'm requiring she finish a weekly art class that runs through the end of the semester (that does not have any homework or practice requirements). For a five year old, I might require she finish out the month.

Edited to add:
If I had a 5 year old who tried piano lessons for a couple months and then quit because she hated them, I would wait a few weeks to let the angst settle and then strew some piano resources to see if she showed any interest. There are some fun tablet apps for learning note names, and as Dmmetler mentioned above, there are books and printable songs that use visuals and color coding so that even very, very beginning piano players can play something they recognize and enjoy. I would then be very open to her trying lessons again in 1+ years if she wanted.

Edited October 15 by wendyroo

[EKS]

On 10/13/2024 at 8:32 AM, TinyMama said:

Do kids need to cover all the sciences and histories, even if it doesn't interest them?

When it comes to building cultural literacy, which is what the majority of the content areas are really about in K-12, interest doesn't matter.  This is not just because kids need to learn a certain body of material.  It is also because kids won't know if they're interested in something unless they are exposed to it--and it can take multiple exposures.

On 10/13/2024 at 8:32 AM, TinyMama said:

When starting history, how do you know where to start?

The wisdom on these boards is to start at the beginning.  I disagree with this after doing it with one kid and something else with another.  I think a better approach is to do an overview of American history (assuming you're in the United States) as well as an introduction to world geography.  This accomplishes several things.  First, there are a ton of books for children in K-2 (or so) that have American history as a theme.  Having a bit of a backgrounds makes these accessible and interesting.  It also gets kids used to the idea of learning about the past.  Having a bit of a background in world geography is helpful when studying world history in first grade.  I was introduced to the approach with K12 (the online provider) and it was fabulous.

[wendyroo]

13 minutes ago, EKS said:

When it comes to building cultural literacy, which is what the majority of the content areas are really about in K-12, interest doesn't matter.  This is not just because kids need to learn a certain body of material.  It is also because kids won't know if they're interested in something unless they are exposed to it--and it can take multiple exposures.

I agree that kids need to build cultural literacy, and that it can take multiple exposures to stimulate interest.

I guess I assumed the original poster was asking if formal, systematic, curricular coverage of the non-preferred subjects was required. And I don't think that is required until high school (and only lightly then).

Of course we go for nature walks, experiment with baking soda and vinegar, and build marble runs. I find those are far more likely to stimulate curiosity about biology, chemistry and physics for an elementary student than reading a textbook. We also read tons of "living books" about science and history, visit museums, watch educational YouTube videos, etc. I see that as very different than "covering" the subjects which sounds very boring and forced.

[EKS]

53 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I guess I assumed the original poster was asking if formal, systematic, curricular coverage of the non-preferred subjects was required. And I don't think that is required until high school (and only lightly then).

I have the opposite opinion.  With my kids, I actually focused on the non-preferred subjects because I knew that they would get short shrift once they left our homeschool.  So my older, extremely STEM focused son, had a history and literature intense education in our homeschool.  I think that waiting until high school to focus on non-preferred subjects is way too late. 

[Clarita]

One practice that I found really helpful to find what works for my family is to do Montessori style observations. When I started out I had a table I would follow rigidly, which had one column for observation, one column for my thoughts, and one column for action. 

Observation was simple observation for what the student did during school without judgement. So simply it could be "finished math work", "complained about math being too hard", "took 30 minutes to complete 2 problems" type stuff. This I would write immediately post lesson or post school time. 

My thoughts were insights as to why I think they might be so. They could be had with a conversation with my children after they calmed down about why they thought math today needed tears or just my thoughts. Things like "they didn't know their +9 math facts", "these problems seem repetitive", etc. 

Actions were what actions I might take given my thoughts. So, "go over math facts", "continue with what we are doing", etc.

Not every observation has my thought or actions. Not every my thoughts end in actions. 

I kept these so I could read through past stuff and things. This process really helped me hone in on what works and what doesn't work, how to teach the student in front of me instead of just following some philosophy or some dream homeschool vision. I did this religiously for about a year and now I just naturally observe on a day to day basis without all the writing down. Biannually (Dec and June) I'll sit down and officially do this for myself and my children.  I'll show/tell my children my observations and we'll talk about it. Occasionally something will happen and I'll write down the observation and do this exercise. 

[wendyroo]

On 10/15/2024 at 1:04 PM, EKS said:

I have the opposite opinion.  With my kids, I actually focused on the non-preferred subjects because I knew that they would get short shrift once they left our homeschool.  So my older, extremely STEM focused son, had a history and literature intense education in our homeschool.  I think that waiting until high school to focus on non-preferred subjects is way too late. 

I've given this more thought. I certainly don't wait until high school to expose kids to non-preferred subjects, but I think my educational philosophy is more centered around "acquisition" than "learning". This is a distinction discussed a lot in the context of second language learning/acquisition.

Language learning is a conscious process; it is a grammar lesson about conjugating a verb form, studying a conjugation chart, chanting the verbs in order, and then consciously accessing that new information to fill verbs into a worksheet of contrived sentences that don't actually convey ideas you are interested in communicating. It is the pedagogy that I think of when someone says that they "covered" a topic or subject.

Acquisition, on the other hand, is an organic process. It is being exposed to varied forms of comprehensible, grammatically correct input that are intrinsically interesting and personally motivating, and unconsciously building the neural connections that will allow you to naturally process and use the language. It is accepting that for a long time you will produce sentences like "they is rob the bank", which will be treated as authentic, effective communication that only needs to be minimally corrected if your conversation partner is unable to understand your meaning. And then, one day, after hearing and reading "they are" in thousands of contexts, your brain will have strengthen the neural connection between those words enough that you will start unconsciously using "they are" instead of "they is" when producing sentences in organic conversation.

Learning can be systematic. In a week, you can "learn" 2 new grammar concepts and a list of 20 vocabulary words. You probably won't be ready to actually use those new concepts or words in functional speech, but you will "know" them well enough to pass quizzes. Acquisition is anything but systematic because its goal is itty-bitty, incremental progress on everything every week. You may not be able to consciously cite anything new you learned in a given week, but you will have thousands of diverse neural connections that are stronger and more precise.

In our homeschool, I aim for far more acquisition than learning in almost all subjects. So when I put on the YouTube video Movie Accent Expert Breaks Down 28 Actors Playing Presidents for my kids (9 and 11 years old) to watch in the car, I don't expect them to "learn" anything. But I know they are going to pay attention because the video was specifically made for entertainment purposes - it is funny and fast paced and incredibly engaging. And as long as they are paying attention, I have faith that they are making incremental progress on "everything": history, geography, philosophy, vocabulary, public speaking, linguistics, government, acting, fashion, comedy, being a science/history communicator, etc. Certainly that video doesn't systematically "cover" any information like a textbook would, and my kids don't consider it "school", and I fully expect that my kids (and all kids) will have gaps in their education, but I do feel comfortable saying that we do "focus" on, and my kids are acquiring, a broad range of preferred and non-preferred subjects.

[EKS]

20 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I've given this more thought. I certainly don't wait until high school to expose kids to non-preferred subjects, but I think my educational philosophy is more centered around "acquisition" than "learning".

This is how I approached many things in our homeschool as well.  With regard to history and literature specifically, my goal was broad exposure.  I read a ton aloud.  We talked.  Because I never drilled history or literature, or had my son (the STEM focused one mentioned above) answer ridiculous comprehension questions (or any comprehension questions), he enjoyed the process.  It was "couch time," what we did after working at the table on output intensive things like math.  Occasionally I had him write something about what he was learning, but it was more in a "tell me what was interesting about this" way rather than wanting something specific from him.  What stuck stuck.  When he attended a private school in high school for a year, he was stunned at the lack of general humanities knowledge the other kids displayed.

Edited October 18 by EKS

[Clemsondana]

One of my goals was broad exposure so that my kids would 1) possibly be exposed to things they would find interesting, 2) have 'hooks' to hang new information on, and 3) be in a position to enjoy museums/exhibits/historical sites because they had some understanding of what they were seeing.  I found that ED Hirsh's Core Knowledge concept was a good fit for my goals.  It led to an elementary routine of math and language arts/handwriting being daily, with the rest done as 2-6 week units based on his recommended topics for each grade, K-5.  There's no magic behind the subject choices each year, but I liked that they'd get a smattering of things, broad exposure, and not be stuck to long if they didn't like something.  So, we'd do a few weeks of geography, then a few weeks of learning about a few modern countries, then some history, then a few weeks about the human body, then a few weeks about art appreciation, and then...  There was almost no output in these subjects for most of elementary.  In 5th-6th grade I started working on essay writing and had them write about history, but prior to that they mostly learned and did the occasional map work or 'divide a paper into 3 parts and compare' assignment.  It felt weird, but it gave us a lot of flexibility.   

It worked well for us.  We could spend more or less time based on their interests, and his topics were just suggestions that got us started.  We read books and watched videos and went on field trips and planted seeds and tried food from other countries.  I had a world map, a globe, and a poster that showed what civilizations were living on different continents at different times so that we could put whatever we were learning about in context.  I appreciated the idea behind history cycles, but that wasn't the best fit for my elementary goals.  So, when the kids were in middle school we did a 3-year chronological history. We did science, but they also learned a ton from science olympiad.  

And, are there gaps?  Yes, because you can't learn everything.  One of my kids has a great overview of history and remembers many leaders and founding documents and a large amount of military history.  I don't think this kid knows much about court intrigue during the Renaissance, though.  Although maybe - this is one of those 'sponge' kids who finds most things interesting and knows a lot.  My other knows a lot about optics for science olympiad.  Optics is rarely or barely covered in school, so on that front kid is way ahead of most people.  But, kid really doesn't like history and remembers little.  We've tried many things, and as kid gets into high school and is realizing that people make references that they don't understand they are starting to put a little more effort into it.  It would have been ideal for them to have learned it when they saw it earlier, but no matter how much you want to, you can't make somebody else learn something.  All we can do is facilitate repeated exposure of important concepts.  

As for music, I had my kids commit either a semester, season, or year at a time.  We evaluated every semester what we wanted to continue and what needed to change.  One kid basically continued the same activities K-12, although after 9th kid dropped one sport.  The other did several things for 1-2 years before settling on a handful of things that kid has now done for several years.  On one hand, I don't want them to quit when it's hard, but on the other there's no reason to do things that you hate for a long time.  For my kid who takes music lessons, that is part of their school and they earn fine arts credits in high school.  My kids were more bored, as far as not having other kids around, when they were in elementary.  In middle and high school extracurriculars take on a life of their own, with most sports requiring daily commitment.