Conflict and the resistant teenager

[pehp]

I am really curious about the best way to handle the now-daily tension I am experiencing with my son, who is 16 and in 10th grade. 
 

Historically we’ve gotten along very well. He’s a really sweet guy and we’ve always had a very congenial relationship. But I feel like an alien has inhabited his body! He has grown a TON in the last year and put on weight, and seems to be raging through late puberty. But he’s so sullen, cranky, resistant, and (dare I say it?!) lazy/procrastinating that we are constantly irritated with each other. 
 

He has 3 online classes this year (he has 1 in person class that is now done) and is struggling to get assignments turned in on time and with managing his coursework. Lots of “making playlists,” taking walks, and listening to French podcasts. Ok. Lots of YouTube. Even so, he has straight As and notes that the issue is me, not him (he could be right?). He is extremely intelligent. I think he wastes time and it drives me bananas. 
 

I think we’ve got executive functioning issues but he’s completely resistant to help. For instance today I gave a clear expectation of what he was to do for 1.5 hours (the overdue geometry, no screens). I went out for a walk and half an hour later came inside and he had done 3 of the wrong geometry problems and was on YouTube watching something to do with the Paris Olympics…..I feel like I need to hover over him, which I didn’t have to do in the past! 

We never had these types of issues before and I can’t tell if it’s an emotional meltdown (he sometimes gets super overwhelmed and then shuts down), character/laziness, depression (he’s often sullen and sees no point to some of his schoolwork), executive functioning issues (he can get inattentive at times, but also has extreme focus on some things), or typical teenage pushback/quest for independence. Or a combo of the above. But our arguments are now occurring daily, *always* over schoolwork…..we never argue about anything else. He’s honestly a joy to parent when we’re not butting heads over this. I have tried making him skip theatre rehearsal, taking away social activities (sparse to begin with so I don’t want to do that too much), removing access to devices (hard when he does online school). I oscillate internally between thinking I need to just totally let it go or I need to totally crack down. I’m even considering a hybrid school next year (3 days there/2 days at home) just because I’m so worn out by the constant friction we’ve gotten ourselves into! But I don’t know it that will solve any issues or just compound them. He takes FOREVER to do his work. I wonder: does he have too little? Or too much? Need more time with peers? Etc…
 

We are going to see a therapist in a couple of weeks, I’m hoping that we’ll get some objective insights there. 
 

Anyone else with teenagers have any wisdom here? Is there an alien in my home? 

[Likaly]

I started with myself—no Facebook, YouTube, etc. When kids ask for some games, etc., I ask if they want me and Dad to sit and watch instead of taking care of them and working. They do not ask these questions after that.

I do not know any other way except for my own example. 

[pehp]

Just now, Likaly said:

I started with myself—no Facebook, YouTube, etc. When kids ask for some games, etc., I ask if they want me and Dad to sit and watch instead of taking care of them and working. They do not ask these questions after that.

I do not know any other way except for my own example. 

We’ve covered that—and you’re right that we lead by example! But it’s certainly not enough in our case. At all. 

[jplain]

Is he using an academic planner?  We started using Scholaric in middle school.  You can view a week at a time.  Since it is online, I can take a look at it any time to see what has been accomplished and what is still left.  I know lots of people like Homeschool Planet or Homeschool Tracker instead.  My older one transitioned to using Google calendar once she got to college, and that works fine too.

[ScoutTN]

You can use software to limit where her can go on the internet during school time or to set timers that limit time on gaming, YT etc. 

Then grow slowly back into the responsibility and freedom that he is misusing.

[pehp]

42 minutes ago, jplain said:

Is he using an academic planner?  We started using Scholaric in middle school.  You can view a week at a time.  Since it is online, I can take a look at it any time to see what has been accomplished and what is still left.  I know lots of people like Homeschool Planet or Homeschool Tracker instead.  My older one transitioned to using Google calendar once she got to college, and that works fine too.

He uses a paper planner! It worked great for a long time. 

[pehp]

37 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

You can use software to limit where her can go on the internet during school time or to set timers that limit time on gaming, YT etc. 

Then grow slowly back into the responsibility and freedom that he is misusing.

Do you have a recommendation for this? We’ve never used any software because it never seemed necessary—until now. He doesn’t do games, just YouTube, Duolingo, and, like, the UN website. He’s a language/politics nerd! 

[Miss Tick]

He is getting straight A's, so is the issue that you are wanting him to be more efficient with his time?

At about this age I had to really back off and let my teens own their work. I started using phrases like, "You are clearly doing what needs to be done. Have you thought about (whatever is on my mind)?" and then I had to let it go. One of mine was still interested in sitting down Fridays and strategizing work for the weekend. The other was not.

If he is doing well, and it sounds like he is, I would try backing off. If his grades start to slip, ask for his thoughts, maybe make a change at that point if needed. It can be hard to let go, but it is a good time to ease back. "You're grades show me that you are handling your school load well. Using that as a measure, I'm going to work on backing off. I find it hard to do, thanks for your patience with me."

[pehp]

15 minutes ago, Miss Tick said:

He is getting straight A's, so is the issue that you are wanting him to be more efficient with his time?

At about this age I had to really back off and let my teens own their work. I started using phrases like, "You are clearly doing what needs to be done. Have you thought about (whatever is on my mind)?" and then I had to let it go. One of mine was still interested in sitting down Fridays and strategizing work for the weekend. The other was not.

If he is doing well, and it sounds like he is, I would try backing off. If his grades start to slip, ask for his thoughts, maybe make a change at that point if needed. It can be hard to let go, but it is a good time to ease back. "You're grades show me that you are handling your school load well. Using that as a measure, I'm going to work on backing off. I find it hard to do, thanks for your patience with me."

Yes-I think that’s it. The lack of efficiency drives me bananas especially when it results in things like getting 4 hours of sleep because he has procrastinated and has to scramble, or missing fun family stuff because he has let his work snowball. The fallout is irritating for his parents, and seems to result in a cycle of fatigue-crankiness-panic-work-fatigue….which I realize describes college for many of us, but still, I don’t like it! 

It may be that I need to give him the rope and see what he does with it. He’s certainly old enough.  It is hard, particularly when I also see him sullen or super cranky from suffering the bad effects of his poor choices. I almost feel like we are in a push-pull. We never had that in toddlerhood—guess I’m due for it now. But I do want him to get confident that HE can manage himself without me micromanaging. And I know it’s crucial for him to develop his independence from me—& perhaps this is his way? 
 

His EF skills aren’t great (but mine are really, really strong, so could be his are more typical) so I worry about his ability to function well. At the same time, he’s a theatre kid who is never late for rehearsal, never misses his lines, and has huge backstage responsibilities during shows because everyone thinks he’s so reliable. So I try to remind myself that he CAN do well with tasks and responsibilities when he’s motivated to do so. He just doesn’t seem very motivated at home! 

[jplain]

Four hours of sleep?  That would be my hill to die on.  If he hasn't seen it, maybe ask him to watch Matt Walker's TED talk. 

 

[Miss Tick]

Or the one about procrastination (funny, but not terribly instructional)

https://youtu.be/arj7oStGLkU?si=IO0PpsXNnEmyFLqA

I hear you about the frustration of inefficiency. I do think you need to give him some room to be in charge, however you can also put down your own boundaries - family things that he needs to attend, and behaviors that aren't acceptable. Now is when he starts learning to be a good roommate, another skill that will be useful in his future

[pehp]

1 hour ago, jplain said:

Four hours of sleep?  That would be my hill to die on.  If he hasn't seen it, maybe ask him to watch Matt Walker's TED talk. 

 

That has only happened once or twice, thankfully! And he understands that the next day is awwwwful. But I sure don’t want it to be a habit! 

Edited April 18 by pehp

[ScoutTN]

3 hours ago, pehp said:

Yes-I think that’s it. The lack of efficiency drives me bananas especially when it results in things like getting 4 hours of sleep because he has procrastinated and has to scramble, or missing fun family stuff because he has let his work snowball. The fallout is irritating for his parents, and seems to result in a cycle of fatigue-crankiness-panic-work-fatigue….which I realize describes college for many of us, but still, I don’t like it! 

It may be that I need to give him the rope and see what he does with it. He’s certainly old enough.  It is hard, particularly when I also see him sullen or super cranky from suffering the bad effects of his poor choices. I almost feel like we are in a push-pull. We never had that in toddlerhood—guess I’m due for it now. But I do want him to get confident that HE can manage himself without me micromanaging. And I know it’s crucial for him to develop his independence from me—& perhaps this is his way? 
 

His EF skills aren’t great (but mine are really, really strong, so could be his are more typical) so I worry about his ability to function well. At the same time, he’s a theatre kid who is never late for rehearsal, never misses his lines, and has huge backstage responsibilities during shows because everyone thinks he’s so reliable. So I try to remind myself that he CAN do well with tasks and responsibilities when he’s motivated to do so. He just doesn’t seem very motivated at home! 

Given this added explanation and excellent grades, I’d let him figure it out. Gentle, occasional conversations about health, wise use of time, etc., but not micromanaging.

[Frances]

4 hours ago, pehp said:

Yes-I think that’s it. The lack of efficiency drives me bananas especially when it results in things like getting 4 hours of sleep because he has procrastinated and has to scramble, or missing fun family stuff because he has let his work snowball. The fallout is irritating for his parents, and seems to result in a cycle of fatigue-crankiness-panic-work-fatigue….which I realize describes college for many of us, but still, I don’t like it! 

It may be that I need to give him the rope and see what he does with it. He’s certainly old enough.  It is hard, particularly when I also see him sullen or super cranky from suffering the bad effects of his poor choices. I almost feel like we are in a push-pull. We never had that in toddlerhood—guess I’m due for it now. But I do want him to get confident that HE can manage himself without me micromanaging. And I know it’s crucial for him to develop his independence from me—& perhaps this is his way? 
 

His EF skills aren’t great (but mine are really, really strong, so could be his are more typical) so I worry about his ability to function well. At the same time, he’s a theatre kid who is never late for rehearsal, never misses his lines, and has huge backstage responsibilities during shows because everyone thinks he’s so reliable. So I try to remind myself that he CAN do well with tasks and responsibilities when he’s motivated to do so. He just doesn’t seem very motivated at home! 

I know it’s tough (been there done that with my now adult son), but I think you’ve answered your own question. Letting him suffer the consequences of his poor time management (maybe even getting less than an A in a class) will likely do much more to help him later in college (and preserve your relationship) then trying to micromanage him now, especially given that he seems to have the ability to function very well when he wants to. Honestly, getting less than an A in a class might be just the thing for him to be willing to listen to some of your time management suggestions.

[EKS]

If he is getting all As, why not back off and let him manage his work the way he sees fit?  Real natural consequences (those imposed by the world and not made up by Mom) are far better teachers than a parent could ever be.

[Likaly]

 

18 hours ago, pehp said:

We’ve covered that—and you’re right that we lead by example! But it’s certainly not enough in our case. At all. 

I have a kid out of 4, who has downloaded all the browsers, and hacked all the passwords I made up - now my husband says I should work in security since I change them and no one can guess - it's like a game for him)) but I love iMac with its restrictions and hate windows for all the possibilities)) 

I also noticed that being in a challenging environment helps a lot. He started debate and fencing, where all the kids are Asians and very hardworking. It changed him too, compared to acting classes with 2GPA most. 

I think it's one of the traits of homeschooling and nowadays life, some kids are more strong-willed and resistant. But since we do not have TVs, blocked social media, and many websites, YouTube, it's much easier))))

 

 

[pehp]

On 4/18/2024 at 11:25 AM, Likaly said:

 

I have a kid out of 4, who has downloaded all the browsers, and hacked all the passwords I made up - now my husband says I should work in security since I change them and no one can guess - it's like a game for him)) but I love iMac with its restrictions and hate windows for all the possibilities)) 

I also noticed that being in a challenging environment helps a lot. He started debate and fencing, where all the kids are Asians and very hardworking. It changed him too, compared to acting classes with 2GPA most. 

I think it's one of the traits of homeschooling and nowadays life, some kids are more strong-willed and resistant. But since we do not have TVs, blocked social media, and many websites, YouTube, it's much easier))))

 

 

Yes-parent controls on the Apple devices are great, and awful on Microsoft, from what I can tell! 
 

I've considered enrolling him in a hybrid school, but I don’t know if it would be more challenging (he’s already taking pretty tough classes) or just a time-filler. And we don’t need more time-fillers unless there’s a real ROI somehow! 

[pehp]

On 4/18/2024 at 9:26 AM, EKS said:

If he is getting all As, why not back off and let him manage his work the way he sees fit?  Real natural consequences (those imposed by the world and not made up by Mom) are far better teachers than a parent could ever be.

I am going to do this for the remainder of the school year. He pulled an all-nighter last night 🙄 but is cheerful and content today. The natural consequence of exhaustion should descend upon us anytime now! 😉

Edited April 20 by pehp

[Farrar]

I vote back way off. He's 16 and has straight A's in outside classes. How he organizes his time is on him. Yeah, it's probably not great. But you nagging him is just tanking the relationship. And for what? 

I get that there are actual issues underneath. And sometimes he's transgressing rules you set. But the point of your rules is that you think he should organize his time differently. And that's just not a hill to die on at this point. This is the stage where being super controlling of a kid's time will backfire hard. 

If you want to set different overall limits on screens, then that I can get behind. But I would stop micromanaging his time. In two years, he'll be an adult and potentially be moving out. You definitely need to give him some rope.

[Farrar]

Also adding that the way he's using screens and his free time may make you crazy, but it sounds super wholesome. Youtubes about France and the Olympics? Poring over music and playlists? Listening to podcasts? You've got a great kid.

[domestic_engineer]

I’ve been in similar disagreements with my kids.   It’s frustrating and tiring!

In my attempts to solve this issue/fix my child, I did ask them to log all their time for a day/week. It’s a big pain to do, but it gives both parties a quantity to deal with rather than a subjective criteria of “enough”.    This exercise hopefully will also give him insight as to how much and when he’s wasting time.  Or maybe he will see pockets of time that he could put his school into, so that he’s not pulling an all-nighter. 
 

Ultimately, though, it’s their education and their time, and as the kids age, we have less and less control of these aspects. So eventually we, as parents, need to back off and let natural consequences be the teacher  … but admittedly, it’s much easier said than done. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Agreeing that micromanaging is going to backfire.  Two things that helped us survive my kids teen years:

1)  Making sure my kids had lots of hard physical exercise to deal those teen emotions

2) Weekly planning meetings about what they needed to accomplish, any outside commitments to work around, and what their game plan was. I told them that it helped my anxiety if they walked me through their plans so that I wouldn't feel the urge to jump in too much.  I told them that it was good life skill practice.  The more I put aside judgement and micromanaging, the more comfortable they felt in coming to me if they felt overwhelmed or unsure how to manage. 

I'm not saying that I did this perfectly ... I fell down a lot and let my own anxiety pull me back into micromanaging.  But by the time I got to my 3rd kid, I was better at it.  She was also better at setting boundaries with me.  

[pehp]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

Also adding that the way he's using screens and his free time may make you crazy, but it sounds super wholesome. Youtubes about France and the Olympics? Poring over music and playlists? Listening to podcasts? You've got a great kid.

I know you’re right. A friend said to me yesterday “your biggest issue with him is that he wastes time. Trust me, you’re lucky.” 
 

it drives me crazy but I’m realllllllly trying to see this is an issue that I need to work through/adjust expectations/etc. And the relationship is so essential and I do not want to damage it.

[pehp]

1 hour ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

Agreeing that micromanaging is going to backfire.  Two things that helped us survive my kids teen years:

1)  Making sure my kids had lots of hard physical exercise to deal those teen emotions

2) Weekly planning meetings about what they needed to accomplish, any outside commitments to work around, and what their game plan was. I told them that it helped my anxiety if they walked me through their plans so that I wouldn't feel the urge to jump in too much.  I told them that it was good life skill practice.  The more I put aside judgement and micromanaging, the more comfortable they felt in coming to me if they felt overwhelmed or unsure how to manage. 

I'm not saying that I did this perfectly ... I fell down a lot and let my own anxiety pull me back into micromanaging.  But by the time I got to my 3rd kid, I was better at it.  She was also better at setting boundaries with me.  

This is SO helpful.
 

We dropped off of weekly meetings and I think that has been to our mutual detriment. We need to restart that to be sure we are on the same page & there are no huge surprises. 
 

I agree with the exercise! That’s a hard area. He’s not an athlete at all, but takes long walks on our farm. That’s the extent of it (along with tai chi with some elderly folks once a week 😄). I thin teens need major expenditures of physical energy! 

[Frances]

On 4/20/2024 at 10:59 AM, dirty ethel rackham said:

Agreeing that micromanaging is going to backfire.  Two things that helped us survive my kids teen years:

1)  Making sure my kids had lots of hard physical exercise to deal those teen emotions

2) Weekly planning meetings about what they needed to accomplish, any outside commitments to work around, and what their game plan was. I told them that it helped my anxiety if they walked me through their plans so that I wouldn't feel the urge to jump in too much.  I told them that it was good life skill practice.  The more I put aside judgement and micromanaging, the more comfortable they felt in coming to me if they felt overwhelmed or unsure how to manage. 

I'm not saying that I did this perfectly ... I fell down a lot and let my own anxiety pull me back into micromanaging.  But by the time I got to my 3rd kid, I was better at it.  She was also better at setting boundaries with me.  

Your post reminded me that I also did weekly planning meetings with my son. Sometimes we even went to a coffee shop for a hot drink and a treat while planning.

[ScoutTN]

Dd and I did this too. It was a good part of her junior and senior years. We talked about things other than school too: budget, summer plans, college. 

Edited April 22 by ScoutTN

[SKL]

I've got daughters and don't homeschool, but I had a similar experience when mine were 16.

Others have given good advice.  I wanted to just add something I realized myself this weekend.

I took my kids to their college open house and sat through some presentations that were scheduled for 1 hour each.  I noticed that after about 45 minutes, I was losing my ability to focus on the speakers.  It struck me that there is a good reason why classes for young people are usually about 45 minutes long.  That may be a natural limit to focus for an average learner.  (Granted, I had longer classes in college and grad school, but we're talking about a 16yo.)

So, I think asking him to focus on math for 1.5 hours (or similar expectations) may just not be developmentally ideal.

It might be more helpful to tell him something like "I'm going for a 1.5 hour walk.  During that time, I want you to finish 45 minutes of geometry (however many problems that is), fold and put away your laundry, and carry the donation boxes to the car."  He'll still have a bit of time for fooling around, which is OK.