Dealing with toxic family members.

[dsmith]

Dh took ds out to do some Christmas shopping, and while they were gone a toxic family member showed up. This person can be fine one minute and the next minute she is freaking out, screaming and yelling and crying, etc. This started about 20 minutes in to the visit, but thankfully it wasn't aimed at my mil, who is usually the target. She was on the phone with ex husband, screaming at the top of her lungs, crying hysterically, etc. Mil is just home from the hospital today after having 3 stents put in, the doctor told mil she was lucky she had the test because it was a widow-maker situation, and this is going on? I had to call dh, they are on the way home, and now ds (on the spectrum) is completely triggered. He has never gotten over the time that this person made his pop pop cry hysterically after being targeted. We can't ban this person from the house, it's just not possible. But dealing with the fallout of this bs is taking a toll. Thankfully it's usually only every 3 months or so that this happens, but we just had an incident a few weeks ago. But ds will be having issues for at least the next 2 days. We're a mostly calm and quiet household, and this is very distressing to him. It stirs up a lot of anger and resentment towards this person. There is no talking to her about the effect she has on ds - she can be the only victim and it would probably cause other issues. It's basically duck and cover when this happens. We think in a few years she will be leaving this area, but until then? Ugh. And 30 minutes later it's like nothing happened at all, but if she gets the wrong look, the wrong inflection in a word, she will explode again. 

[popmom]

What is getting in the way of banning this person from the house?

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, popmom said:

What is getting in the way of banning this person from the house?

Yes, exactly!!!

If this person was upsetting my family -- particularly a child on the spectrum -- I would have no problem banning her from my home, no matter how close a relative she was.

Go Mama Bear on her, @dsmith!  Why would you let this lunatic upset your child??? And the idea that it's not an infrequent occurrence makes it even worse. Seriously, either you or your dh need to take immediate and permanent action here.

[Katy]

Even if in laws live with you that this person has a right to visit, you can absolutely ban them from coming over unannounced (call or text first as commonly courtesy) and make it clear that any further hysterical drama that upsets DS will result in 911 being called to request a trespassing charge or a psychiatric hold. She is not welcome at your house in that state. Even if your particular police decline to intervene in such drama, the threat might be enough to reign in the behavior somewhat. 

[popmom]

I want to add...

I empathize with you feeling like you don't have options. I allowed the toxic person in my life to cause harm to my own children because I also believed I had no options. That wasn't true though. It was just one more thing the toxic person does (to cause you to believe) so you (((won't))) call them out or ban them. They are very good at working the whole family system.

Then one day I had enough and did the unthinkable. I call her out, and all hell broke loose (which is what happens as you have certainly experienced). Only this time I didn't back down. I have zero regrets even though I completely "blew up" the family. I have no idea what would be preventing you from banning this person--I was sincerely asking. And maybe, if you are anything like I used to be, you have more options than people would have you believe. 

Anyway...virtual big hug from me. This is hard. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by popmom

[Carol in Cal.]

Can you have a private talk with her, and say that this kind of explosion is very upsetting to observers, and in the future if she starts doing that, no matter whether it is justified or not (to give her an out), you’ll ask her to continue her conversation outside?  And then follow through.

If you can’t ban her, at least you can mitigate the effects.

[gardenmom5]

 Unless this person owns the house you're living in, you have the right to ban them.  Even if they own it, and you're paying rent - they must give a minimum amount of notice based upon your locality before they can come in.

I agree with others - this person should not be allowed to just "drop-in".  You need warning to *at a minimum* get your son out of the house and away from the drama.  He's a child and dependent upon you to protect him.  The dramatic one - is an adult.

If they just walk-in, without being invited, I would have no problem calling police to escort them out.

[marbel]

So, this person is related to your husband? And she needs to be able to visit his mother? (I'm sorry if I don't have the relationship right.)  Can you set up a schedule for when she can visit when you and your son are out, but your husband is there to watch over his mom?  And let her know she won't be allowed in if she shows up unannounced. 

[dsmith]

3 hours ago, popmom said:

What is getting in the way of banning this person from the house?

It's not our house yet. When it is, things will be different, but she may be out of the area by then.🤞

[dsmith]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, exactly!!!

If this person was upsetting my family -- particularly a child on the spectrum -- I would have no problem banning her from my home, no matter how close a relative she was.

Go Mama Bear on her, @dsmith!  Why would you let this lunatic upset your child??? And the idea that it's not an infrequent occurrence makes it even worse. Seriously, either you or your dh need to take immediate and permanent action here.

Some day we will, but hopefully it won't be necessary at that point. Dh is the one who deals with her, I won't go near her when she's like that. Ds wasn't home when this happened tonight, and thankfully she was better when they got home. He did know there was an incident, but he was smart and came down to our basement rec room and hung out with me while she was here, until we were positive things were better. I think knowing that her wrath wasn't aimed at his grandmother made it easier to deal with this time. 

[dsmith]

3 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Can you have a private talk with her, and say that this kind of explosion is very upsetting to observers, and in the future if she starts doing that, no matter whether it is justified or not (to give her an out), you’ll ask her to continue her conversation outside?  And then follow through.

If you can’t ban her, at least you can mitigate the effects.

Perhaps dh could but I doubt he will unless it gets worse. She had been ok for almost 6 months, but a few weeks ago that changed. I will not engage with her at all beyond the niceties when things are normal. I cannot be around her when she's a screaming lunatic because I'm afraid what I may do if she chooses to target me. I'm a pretty even tempered and mellow person usually, but if I get mad and engage with her, I will make her screaming fit look like nothing. So for my mental health I stay away, and keep ds away for his. Eventually dh will get into it with her. It happens every few years and I know she is currently upset with him about something or other. 

[DawnM]

She sounds like she has borderline personality disorder.   She needs professional help.   I am so sorry.

I am not sure there is much you can do if it isn't your house and the in-laws allow it.   Do the in-laws understand or see how upsetting it is to your child?

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

She sounds like she has borderline personality disorder.   She needs professional help.   I am so sorry.

I am not sure there is much you can do if it isn't your house and the in-laws allow it.   Do the in-laws understand or see how upsetting it is to your child?

OP ---- BPD - is considered treatable.   Dialectical behavior therapy was developed to treat it.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

OP ---- BPD - is considered treatable.   Dialectical behavior therapy was developed to treat it.

It is very difficult to treat because people with BPD don't think there is anything wrong with them, it is everyone around them.   

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

It is very difficult to treat because people with BPD don't think there is anything wrong with them, it is everyone around them.   

DBT was developed specifically for BPD. (still requires work, still requires someone to actually go in and receive treatment)  Narcissists . . there is nothing, even if they want it.

[DawnM]

25 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

DBT was developed specifically for BPD. (still requires work, still requires someone to actually go in and receive treatment)  Narcissists . . there is nothing, even if they want it.

I see what you are saying, but I also know that BPD folks rarely get the treatment they need because they don't think they need it.

[gardenmom5]

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

It is very difficult to treat because people with BPD don't think there is anything wrong with them, it is everyone around them.   

there are multiple types of cluster B's.  All have their own challenges, and some are more difficult than others.