Helping your kid advocate in a poorly run class (without becoming a nag)

[cintinative]

My oldest is in a Computer networking class at the university via dual enrollment.  It's asynchronous.  It appears that the prof is phoning it in.  Most of the "lessons" are youtube videos. Last week there were two labs for the live class with no replacement in the asynchronous class.  My son emailed last week explaining that the work only took a half hour and was there anything he had missed, etc.? She replied no. She said she would post an exam review on Thursday but didn't.  He ended up finding something online to help him understand one of the labs that he didn't get to do but not for the other one (My IT guy husband didn't even understand the purpose of the 2nd lab). 

It took hounding to get my son to even send her an email last week when he only had a half hour of work.  He did, but then never followed up on the exam review.  This week his workload is looking similarly bad--a youtube video of someone with a bad accent where at times the subtitle reads "poor audio--cannot transcribe."  Also, still no exam review, but the exam is this week. ETA: He checked his email from her and she said the exam review is basically what is already posted in the modules. She was supposed to remind everyone to study them, and she didn't, but there is no exam review packet. 

There is a group project in this class 😬😬 My son has reached out to his team members and heard nothing back.  

It just seems like a train wreck from where I sit. I have a high sense of urgency about things that my kids and husband do not have (to be clear, often this is a good thing).  

How do you help your kid advocate for himself without nagging?  

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by cintinative

[Dmmetler]

Honestly, I'd suggest he drop the class. Sometimes, it's just not worth it. 

 

[cintinative]

7 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Honestly, I'd suggest he drop the class. Sometimes, it's just not worth it. 

 

I mentioned this. He is refusing.  =(  

I told him I worry that this is a class he could do poorly in despite his best efforts.  

[Bootsie]

Sometimes you can help your kid advocate for himself--when it is something that he wants to do and is important to him.  It becomes nagging when you want to "help" him do something that you want him to do, not something that he wants to do.  I try to approach it as the child may not be learning what I would have liked from the class, or may not be reaciting to the situation as I would want him to, but maybe he is learning so other important life lessons, like when to drop an asynchronous classs.  

[wendyroo]

I always start by having my kid articulate and actually write down what their goals are in the situation.
(At this stage they sometimes need help realizing how important a certain goal might be that isn't even on their radar.)

Then I ask them to write down a bullet list of red flags that they feel with be early indicators that they are not headed toward their goals.
(Again, I gently guide as much as they will let me, using phrases like, "Once X happened to me, so now I know to watch out for Y.")

Lastly, I strongly encourage them to brain storm possible responses if the red flags do occur. I point out that when things are going off the rail, they will want to act quickly, so it will be helpful if they already have planned at least one step to take.

Then I sit back (on pins and needles) and watchfully wait (impatiently) , ready to jump in and help problem solve (if they let me) if those red flags crop up.

[ScoutTN]

Sounds like a situation that will only be remedied at an admin level. The prof clearly does not care.

[cintinative]

21 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Sounds like a situation that will only be remedied at an admin level. The prof clearly does not care.

How do you even do this? Contact the department head?

[Bootsie]

44 minutes ago, cintinative said:

How do you even do this? Contact the department head?

From what you describe, it sounds unlikely that he will learn much from the class.  I am a bit confused about the asynchronous nature of the class, while there seems to also be an in-person offering of the class.  Do both of those sections have the same instructor?  How is he aware of what is occuring in the in-person section to be able to know that there are labs in that section which his section is not completing?

As far as a complaint, it is important to have a well-thought out, specific complaint, along with documentation of how you have attempted to solve the problem before contacting the department head.  I would focus on: is there something specific he is struggling in the class with that he can ask specifc questions about.  For example, is the only material that is provided for this week the video and can he not understand the video?  Is there no book or print material on the topic?  If so, he should contact the profiessor with "I am having trouble understanding the topic XYZ; I have watched the video but I am unclear about XYZ.  Can you explain XYZ or point me to som additional resources?  Can we schedule office hours to go over this?"  

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

How do you even do this? Contact the department head?

Does he have an advisor? 

[BusyMom5]

I had some issues a year or so ago.  I ended up going to the DE coordinator with a list of the issues, dates DD contacted them, their responses, etc.  

[cintinative]

24 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Does he have an advisor? 

He has a scheduling advisor, but just for the DE program, not related to these courses.

[cintinative]

34 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

From what you describe, it sounds unlikely that he will learn much from the class.  I am a bit confused about the asynchronous nature of the class, while there seems to also be an in-person offering of the class.  Do both of those sections have the same instructor?  How is he aware of what is occuring in the in-person section to be able to know that there are labs in that section which his section is not completing?

As far as a complaint, it is important to have a well-thought out, specific complaint, along with documentation of how you have attempted to solve the problem before contacting the department head.  I would focus on: is there something specific he is struggling in the class with that he can ask specifc questions about.  For example, is the only material that is provided for this week the video and can he not understand the video?  Is there no book or print material on the topic?  If so, he should contact the profiessor with "I am having trouble understanding the topic XYZ; I have watched the video but I am unclear about XYZ.  Can you explain XYZ or point me to som additional resources?  Can we schedule office hours to go over this?"  

Apparently there is a live section that this prof also teaches. It seems like this canvas page might have been copied from the live class and she missed some places where there is not overlap.  For example, the module listed the labs with some sort of note that it was in class (which applied to the live classes) but there was not a note about the labs not being relevant to the asynchronous class.  There is no text for this class.  

So far if he doesn't understand something he just researches it himself. My fear is that we don't know what will be on the exam or final exam.  

He has agreed to message her about some stuff that was on a recent quiz that wasn't covered in the class.

I have tried to convey to him the risk he is taking if he does poorly in this class despite himself.  ugh.

 

 

[daijobu]

4 hours ago, cintinative said:

The prof is phoning it in. 

Most of the "lessons" are youtube videos.

My son emailed.

 This week his workload is looking similarly bad.

How do you help your kid advocate for himself without nagging?  

 

Isn't there some proverb about repeating the same action and hoping for a different outcome?  

Your student already emailed and nothing changed.  

I'm with your husband and son.  More emails won't turn a bad prof into a good one.  More emails won't turn a bad class into a good one.  

Also your son can't expect the class to change.  It will continue to be a bad class.  I agree with you that he should drop it, or else prepare for an unexpected grade, possibly bad or who knows?  

[cintinative]

ETA: He checked his email from her and she said the exam review is basically what is already posted in the modules. She was supposed to remind everyone to study them, and she didn't, but there is no exam review "packet."  He misread her email.

Y'all, just think of me. He still insists on keeping this class.  I would love to say he gets his stubbornness from his dad . . . =P  

On the only very marginally "plus" side, most of this can be self-studied.  Of course, no one has a magic ball to determine what will be on the exam. Or what his group project team will be like.  

[ScoutTN]

Ugh. Sorry. 

[regentrude]

Usually one can drop a class until a few weeks before the end of the semester. He should see how things go at the exam. A W on a transcript is very common.

If the class is poorly run, he can contact the department head - but too little workload, too easy, different from in person class all would not really be grounds for complaints.

Prof being unresponsive to email, refusing to answer questions, exam covering content that was never mentioned, or grading in violation of the syllabus would be valid complaints.

Asynchronous online classes that are awesome are the exception rather than the norm. 

[EKS]

It is extremely unlikely that anything will change even if he complains to the administration.  Another vote here for dropping the class.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:57 PM, cintinative said:

How do you even do this? Contact the department head?

Every college should have its individual procedure listed in its college/university regulations documentation. Sometimes this involves the department head, sometimes not, sometimes it's the student's choice depending on who appears to be involved.

It is probably worth invoking the procedure, if only for practise, even if he also drops the class.

Edited September 23, 2023 by ieta_cassiopeia