Helping Kid make peace when others don’t want that

[Spryte]

Please don’t quote.

Any tips for the best way to stop a circular argument cycle? That’s the real question, you can read the below scenario for details, or skip to the end. 

Details: Kid (barely adult, ASD, gifted, lives at home while going to CC, and while high functioning does require significant support) is in a tit-for-tat type argument with a person who keeps sending long, long messages and clearly wants to keep arguing about a situation in which both are likely at fault (though only Kid will admit that). It all started when Kid gently questioned Other Person about something rather unethical. And now it’s moved to Other Person making accusations against Kid.

This person has also made sort of veiled threats in the mob style of “that’s a beautiful family you have there, be a shame if anything happened to it” only not about physical stuff, more threatening to ruin Kid’s reputation within his chosen community. That would devastate Kid. Absolutely devastate him.

Kid has owned his part, apologized, made big changes accordingly, and has made a commitment to making sure he does not do X again. Other Person has not owned his part (Kid expects he never will) and continues to send scathing and escalating, accusatory messages (expanding the accusations way past Kid’s original mistake — like a toddler saying, “you took my cookie!” but then escalating to “you’ve never had your own cookie! you’ve taken the entire class’s cookies! every cookie you’ve ever had belongs to someone else, your whole life! All your cookies suck, anyway!”).

Other Person is also significantly older than Kid, and is in a position to use that in an intimidating way.

I think Kid’s calling Other Person out on their role at the very start of the situation has made them very defensive. They have more to lose than Kid.

Kid does not expect Other Person to own their role in this, Kid knows Other Person needs to save face, and Kid just wants the arguing to stop. He doesn’t know what else to do to appease this person. There’s no logical reparations Kid can make, other than make the changes he made, apologize, not make the same mistake again. Kid knows Other Person won’t do the same — that’s fine. 

Kid is trying to respond authentically, with genuine good will. Anything Kid responds is met with long, scathing emails picking apart every word.

My thinking at this point is “less is more.” 

Kid is thinking along the lines of, “I’m sorry you feel this way. I apologized, owned my actions, made changes, and made a commitment that I would not do X again. I won’t. At this point, our communication isn’t productive, and I’m going to take a break. I wish you well.”

Unfortunately, I don’t think Other Person will be satisfied until Kid is out of the community, but we need to give it a shot.

We thought about asking what Other Person wants, but it seems like that might just be keeping the door open for unreasonable requests and more communication, so that’s probably not a good idea.

Is there another way to respond, here, that might settle things down?

If you’ve had this type of interaction, did you find a way to tone things down even while the Other Person wanted to escalate?

Please don’t quote.

[Farrar]

I agree with your approach and basic wording. I'd get Kid to practice saying it over and over.

Might Kid also be ready with future fallout in case Other Person goes ballistic in the community? Something like, "Other Person and I each made some mistakes. I apologized, owned my actions, and made changes. Other Person has not accepted my attempts to make things right or apologized for their actions that hurt me. This is a complex situation with two sides. Please do not take Other Person's description of what happened as the only story."

Some of those threats are pretty severe. I would screenshot them and put them aside in a file in case things go pear shaped in a way that's beyond just spreading rumors in a community. This honestly sounds like it could head into restraining order territory.

[Spryte]

Thanks, @Farrar.

Prepping for future fallout sounds smart. We will start brainstorming ideas on that, building on yours.

I will ask Kid to screenshot everything. I had worries about how far this might go as well. 

 

[Katy]

Is this a parent or other family member? A teacher or boss? Or just someone involved in a special interest? My approach would vary depending on which. 

I suspect all of my approaches would involve either escalation above this person’s head or leaving the party (activity, church, organization, whatever) altogether. How to escalate would vary, however. Threats, even veiled ones against family, might mean getting a restraining order. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Katy

[Spryte]

This is someone involved with a special interest/career path. They are all adults, including Kid (though just barely, in his case). This isn’t an organized community like a church or organization with a governing body that Kid can escalate to. It’s more like a group of people involved in a specific career path who share information and work. It’s the largest community for this type of work, so leaving would cut Kid off from a lot of resources. I agree, though, that if Kid could just leave the community that would be best. Even just a break.

To be clear, the veiled threats were in that mob style of “that’s a beautiful [whatever] you have there, be a shame if anything happened to it” — I used “family” as the typical mob example that we’ve all heard, but that’s not the word other person used. The threats were not against Kid’s family, though, but rather to utterly ruin his reputation in the community which relates to his chosen field. So more like “that’s beautiful potential you have there, be a shame if your reputation was ruined and you could never work in this field again.”However, I do see the potential for this heading into territory that involves naming names and places of business/school/addresses if this Other Person continues to escalate — I don’t know that they would do that, but it feels like they might. 

I feel so sad for Kid.

[Harriet Vane]

What a crummy situation. I feel for your ds. You’re right, less is more. What an awful person.

[AmandaVT]

Slightly underhanded, but is there someone in the community with more social power than Other Person that DS could reach out to for support? He could phrase his request in a way where he's asking for this person's help in managing a tricky social situation, but in the process, they'd see what's really going on and possibly be in a better position to shut down Other Person? I've done that in tricky work situations. For example, if a colleague is asking for something inappropriate or pressuring me, I've gone to another colleague who I know has the boss's ear and said, "I have this sticky situation, and I'm not entirely sure the best way to handle it, can you help?" Then, helpful colleague went to boss to shut down the inappropriate colleague. Or, colleague with more clout can shut down colleagues with less clout. I'm trying to come up with an actual situation I've used this type of tactic, but I'm drawing a blank right now. 

[Farrar]

With the additional context, I agree that being proactive by reaching out to others might make sense here. But he needs to do it in a way that doesn't turn into spreading nasty rumors about the Other Person. Like, "Colleague, Other Person is threatening me and doing x, y, and z and here are all the sordid details," is just likely to turn into a tit for tat on a grander scale. So it has to be, "I've gotten into a difficult back and forth that seems like it's going to turn into someone making accusations. I don't want to just make accusations to take revenge. I think it's a personal matter that got out of control. I know I messed up, but this community is important to me and I'm concerned about losing it."

[KungFuPanda]

If this is a social group situation, could your kid just control the information and tell his friends what happened?  That way if this guy just cannot move on and escalates things his news won’t be news at all. If a friend is saying “nothing I say satisfies him and he’s obsessed with this situation” you are likely to support him even if he made a mistake somewhere in there. Nobody has a time machine and he’s done what he can. It’s time to limit communication with the guy. Rehashing the original incident only seems to feed him. 

[Katy]

I would absolutely help him craft an email or text or message to everyone except this person and ask for help dealing with it, AND mention the threats. Yes, the situation will blow up. Exposing abuse almost always makes things blow up. And sometimes the rest of the group will have his back and sometimes not. But you won’t know until it happens. 

[BusyMom5]

I'm kinda confused 😕 but does your son need to even reply to Other Person?  The long e-mails and threats indicate to me that OP may have mental health issues or possibly substance abuse problems.  Or maybe he's just a guy who likes to push people around and your son is an easy target.  Can your son just sort of ignore OP and just do his own thing, trying to make more contacts within the group and steering clear of OP?  

[Spryte]

Thanks, all.

We spent some time crafting a short message with “less is more” in mind. Pretty much what I said in the OP. Kid sent it a few minutes ago, and is ready to “not engage” when a reply comes, as it likely will.

We are braced for anger, and a message with a wall of text. Fingers crossed that’s as bad as it gets.

[scholastica]

Have Kid keep copies of all the interactions. That way if the Other Person does try to ruin him, he has proof of his side of the story and everything Other Person said. 

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Have Kid keep copies of all the interactions. That way if the Other Person does try to ruin him, he has proof of his side of the story and everything Other Person said. 

Yes, that's what I was thinking, too! I also like the idea of being proactive and basically "confessing" what happened to someone (or several people) more powerful in the group and asking for advice on how to handle the increasingly aggressive communications from the Other Person. I would think that your Kid would be respected for owning his own actions and wanting to make things right, and the Other Person would come out of this looking guilty and mean. 

I know most people try to avoid doing things like this, but it seems like the most politically correct option, and it is way more likely that your Kid will be able to keep his standing in the group if he confesses what happened and talks about how he is redeeming himself, rather than if the Other Person decides to be a jerk and rat out the Kid (and Other Person will of course blame everything on the Kid.) 

Strike first, while the Kid still has a chance at gaining the upper hand here. There's no way things are going to end positively with the Other Person, because the Other Person sounds unhinged. Go on the attack (in a politically correct way) because there is literally no upside to trying to reason with an unhinged person. I think that's the best way for the Kid to take control of the situation and have it end the way he wants it to end.

[Not_a_Number]

This person sounds damaged, threatened, and therefore scary. 

I'd bow out of the interaction in a way that's totally not accusatory and makes it seem like it's all about your kid. 

"I'm so sorry I did X. I get overwhelmed very easily and I won't be able to respond to any more messages right now. Best of luck in Y." 

That way, it lets the other person move on to someone else that makes them angry -- trust me, someone like this must be constantly picking fights. You just want to get out of the crosshairs without setting them off again, which any mention of anything the other person is doing will trigger.

[Spryte]

Oh, @Not_a_Number, that’s a good idea. If this continues, I like that idea for completely bowing out of these conversations. Thanks.

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Spryte said:

Oh, @Not_a_Number, that’s a good idea. If this continues, I like that idea for completely bowing out of these conversations. Thanks.

 

Thank you! I hope it works (although I also hope he won't need it.) It's the thing I've liked best for getting out of this kind of sticky stuff.