That is all

[TexasProud]

Just now, regentrude said:

Then you pick a thing and put the time and effort in until you are good at it. There's no shortcut.

You complain that you have too much empty time at your hand. Use that to practice an instrument or a foreign language or a craft until you mastered it. 

I am not self disciplined enough.  I cannot make myself. 

[thatfirstsip]

This reads as an inflated self-image (I'm meant to be special! It drives me crazy when other people are better at things than I am! My writing only matters if other people like it! Here are all of the great things I have in my life that I unfortunately don't like!) masked by an extreme version of what you perceive to be a more socially acceptable self-image (I'm not as good as other people; I owe other people care before myself; I don't love myself as much as I love others; you're right to judge me, I'm a terrible person). When people challenge you to acknowledge the ridiculousness of this dichotomy you get super defensive.

What would it look like to just accept the inflated self-image without trying to defend against it or justify it? Not "I'm great because I accomplished x" or "I should be content to be y because after all I'm a failure," but instead "there's a part of me that thinks I'm an exceptional person and I want ALL the things and I want people to like me and approve of me all the time and I don't want anyone to be better than I am at things and I want to eat all the cookies in the universe and stay skinny anyway so people think I have self-control, etc.etc."

Sometimes just acknowledging to yourself that you have this shadow part of your personality that might not look great, or seem acceptable, or feel good, can lessen it's power over you and reduce your distress about it. Denying it over and over, and getting people online to buy into your denial of it, just makes it stronger, sometimes. Accepting it might help. Just acknowledging it openly, without judgement either way, might help.

[Rosie_0801]

Well, we've just acknowledged an imperfection, so can we let go of this "husband is perfect" thing now, please?

You sound like you're both frantically trying to escape from something.

[TexasProud]

Just now, thatfirstsip said:

 

Sometimes just acknowledging to yourself that you have this shadow part of your personality that might not look great, or seem acceptable, or feel good, can lessen it's power over you and reduce your distress about it. Denying it over and over, and getting people online to buy into your denial of it, just makes it stronger, sometimes. Accepting it might help. Just acknowledging it openly, without judgement either way, might help.

No, you shouldn't aknowlege it. You beat it out of yourself.  It is not acceptable. Period. You fix it. Period.

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, TexasProud said:

No, you shouldn't aknowlege it. You beat it out of yourself.  It is not acceptable. Period. You fix it. Period.

You need to take this to therapy.

[TexasProud]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

You need to take this to therapy.

Again, if you can help me find a decent one, I am all in. 

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

This reads as an inflated self-image (I'm meant to be special! It drives me crazy when other people are better at things than I am! My writing only matters if other people like it! Here are all of the great things I have in my life that I unfortunately don't like!) masked by an extreme version of what you perceive to be a more socially acceptable self-image (I'm not as good as other people; I owe other people care before myself; I don't love myself as much as I love others; you're right to judge me, I'm a terrible person). When people challenge you to acknowledge the ridiculousness of this dichotomy you get super defensive.

What would it look like to just accept the inflated self-image without trying to defend against it or justify it? Not "I'm great because I accomplished x" or "I should be content to be y because after all I'm a failure," but instead "there's a part of me that thinks I'm an exceptional person and I want ALL the things and I want people to like me and approve of me all the time and I don't want anyone to be better than I am at things and I want to eat all the cookies in the universe and stay skinny anyway so people think I have self-control, etc.etc."

Sometimes just acknowledging to yourself that you have this shadow part of your personality that might not look great, or seem acceptable, or feel good, can lessen it's power over you and reduce your distress about it. Denying it over and over, and getting people online to buy into your denial of it, just makes it stronger, sometimes. Accepting it might help. Just acknowledging it openly, without judgement either way, might help.

100%

 

And no shame either. There's a part of me that feels really hard done by that I'm not getting accolades left, right and centre. So what?

We all have a shadow. Our job is to be conscious of our shadow, to dialogue with it. To use it, integrate it. 

Not to stand in a corner saying, me? I'm very humble, very nice. 

[Ginevra]

2 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

Sometimes just acknowledging to yourself that you have this shadow part of your personality that might not look great, or seem acceptable, or feel good, can lessen it's power over you and reduce your distress about it.

That’s soooooo accurate. 
 

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Again, if you can help me find a decent one, I am all in. 

I can't. That's something you need to find. It took me almost a quarter century of trying. I didn't give up. 

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

 But what choice do I have other than to sit in the house doing nothing by myself.  

I can think of millions of alternatives. 

[thatfirstsip]

6 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yeah, so he's not perfect if he can't even sit on the porch of an evening and chat to his wife.

 

I sense a Lonesome Dove reference here and I like it

[Rosie_0801]

Just now, TexasProud said:

No, you shouldn't aknowlege it. You beat it out of yourself.  It is not acceptable. Period. You fix it. Period.

Bollocks.

That is unhealthy, unrealistic crap, and not even godly. Even Jesus had a temper.

What you do with your shadow side is acknowledge and be brave enough to understand it. Then a lot of it feels validated and goes away. What's left can be used for the production of empathy. (Except when you're sleep deprived or lonely and hate everyone and everything, which doesn't matter because you're not actually going out and stabbing people.)

Without your shadow side, you would be like a writer who has nothing to say and protects themselves from new material then hates themselves for not writing.

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No, you shouldn't aknowlege it. You beat it out of yourself.  It is not acceptable. Period. You fix it. Period.

This relentless striving for perfection is spiritual self-harm.

Edited August 29, 2023 by regentrude

[bolt.]

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No, you shouldn't aknowlege it. You beat it out of yourself.  It is not acceptable. Period. You fix it. Period.

Hah! If that trick worked, we'd all be magicians.

"Flawless humans exist. They got there by beating themselves up. I'm nothing if I don't live up to them."

What a liar your inner voice is!

This has got to be a joke. You've got higher than average intelligence. You've had a family. You know Christian theology... You've got to know: That's NOT how humans actually work.

[Heartstrings]

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No, you shouldn't aknowlege it. You beat it out of yourself.  It is not acceptable. Period. You fix it. Period.

Are you or your church steeped in the Prosperity Gospel by chance?  Do you believe that these "wrong" feelings you are having are what keeping God from "blessing your socks off" with success in your writing and podcast? That your husband is more blessed or more favored because he is successful? 

[TexasProud]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

Are you or your church steeped in the Prosperity Gospel by chance?  Do you believe that these "wrong" feelings you are having are what keeping God from "blessing your socks off" with success in your writing and podcast? That your husband is more blessed or more favored because he is successful? 

Oh my goodness no. I hate the prosperity gospel.  JEsus said that in this life we would have trouble.  If people hate him, then they would hate us.  No. No. No. No. 

[marbel]

9 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No, you shouldn't aknowlege it. You beat it out of yourself.  It is not acceptable. Period. You fix it. Period.

Is this coming from your "spiritual director" that you've mentioned? I think I have the term right. If so, I think you need to fire them. 

[bolt.]

All humans have a dark side.

Being dishonest about it never helped any of them.

[TexasProud]

Just now, marbel said:

Is this coming from your "spiritual director" that you've mentioned? I think I have the term right. If so, I think you need to fire them. 

No. She has never said that..

[Frances]

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Was I always so driven to get things done?  No, I wasn't. But what choice do I have other than to sit in the house doing nothing by myself.  Yeah, he is competent, but I really wish he wasn't sometimes. 

You have all the choices in the world. You are financially secure, in relatively good health, and have very few responsibilities. Stop focusing on the negative, seeing the grass as greener, and take advantage of the extremely fortunate position you are in and go out and do for others, paid or unpaid. Do you have any idea how amazingly fortunate you are compared to the majority of people in the world?

Or if you truly, actually want to be best at something (or at least better than your husband for whatever strange reason) then use the majority of the copious free time you have and actually put in the work to excel. It’s not going to magically happen without lots of hard work and it doesn’t sound like writing is where it’s going to happen for you, so choose something different and go for it. Try lots of things until you find something that allows you to be in the zone where you are not ruminating on the meaning of life, but rather you can’t believe how much time has passed because you were so focused.

[marbel]

Just now, TexasProud said:

No. She has never said that..

Do you bring these feelings up to her? I actually have no idea what a spiritual director (advisor?) does. But by the title, it seems like the kind of person one would bring these sorts of issues to. 

[TexasProud]

Honestly, it probably comes from a combo of childhood stuff.  My dad had a genius IQ.  He was star quarterback.  Student council president. President of the chess club.  A fabulous painter and poetry writer and genius mathematician.  He read the dictionary for fun.  He was great fun to talk to sometimes, but he could also turn in a minute and make me feel stupid.

I will never be that smart, so I had to be as good as I possibly could be.  Also, I was made fun of a lot for my cleft palate, cleft lip, and crooked nose.  I will never be beautiful, so I have to be as sweet and wonderful as I can possibly be to make up for that. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Honestly, it probably comes from a combo of childhood stuff.  My dad had a genius IQ.  He was star quarterback.  Student council president. President of the chess club.  A fabulous painter and poetry writer and genius mathematician.  He read the dictionary for fun.  He was great fun to talk to sometimes, but he could also turn in a minute and make me feel stupid.

I will never be that smart, so I had to be as good as I possibly could be.  Also, I was made fun of a lot for my cleft palate, cleft lip, and crooked nose.  I will never be beautiful, so I have to be as sweet and wonderful as I can possibly be to make up for that. 

Sweet and wonderful is truly boring. I do not want to know sweet and wonderful people. 

I like real people, with all their mess. Sure, sometimes they are sweet, and I think they are great! but sweet and wonderful is a really crappy goal. 

How about real and f@#$ing out there? 

[TexasProud]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

You have all the choices in the world. You are financially secure, in relatively good health, and have very few responsibilities. Stop focusing on the negative, seeing the grass as greener, and take advantage of the extremely fortunate position you are in and go out and do for others, paid or unpaid. Do you have any idea how amazingly fortunate you are compared to the majority of people in the world?

 

Yes, I have served in third world countries.  I know I am fortunate.  I know I shouldn't feel this way.  I get it.  Believe me.  I know I am blessed and I don't have the self-discipline to do anything about it and really, an almost 60yo is going to get fabulously good at something.  Not likely.  My time has passed.   I just need to be the best person I can be like a previous poster said and just add as much love to the world as possible. 

So I think i will make a list of 10 things to do for others everyday.  

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

I will never be that smart, so I had to be as good as I possibly could be.  Also, I was made fun of a lot for my cleft palate, cleft lip, and crooked nose.  I will never be beautiful, so I have to be as sweet and wonderful as I can possibly be to make up for that. 

"I will never be that smart, so I had to be as good as I possibly could be.  Also, I was made fun of a lot for my cleft palate, cleft lip, and crooked nose.  I will never be beautiful, so I have to be as fake and inhuman and self-abusive as I can possibly be to make up for that."

See how that sounds? It doesn't sound like a remedy does it? Not that anyone owes the world or their father more cleverness or beauty than they were born with. God didn't create you to self abuse. I find it physically painful watching you do this through a computer screen, so I can't imagine how you can think it's the right and true path.

[Melissa Louise]

Think about ten crazy and selfish things you can do and enjoy, more like it. 

You might even find you like your actual 'I matter in my own right' self. 

[regentrude]

5 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I will never be beautiful, so I have to be as sweet and wonderful as I can possibly be to make up for that. 

Sorry to be so blunt, but this is bull$@#%.

There is nothing to "make up for".

[thatfirstsip]

I would guess that your shadow also has a lot of resentment, maybe even hatred, for people who are beautiful or very intelligent or even just very happy.

I, underneath, where I don't like to look, sometimes really resent happily married couples. It's such a strong resentment that when I experience it consciously, I think I'm not even sure men and women can be happily partnered without abuse. I don't like married couples and I think they're faking it, and if they're not faking it I think it will end miserably for them, and it should.

When I catch myself thinking this way, having this aversion, I try to remember that it's my shadow; that under the intellectual justifications is a seething mass of hatred and pain; and by acknowledging that, the conscious position adjusts a lot; I can tolerate more nuance; I can accept that maybe other people are okay.

When I ignore the shadow underneath, I only have access to the twisted stuff that comes out on top; when I acknowledge it and treat it with respect (not deference, but respect), the extreme emotional reactions lose their power, and I am more in control.

Edited August 29, 2023 by thatfirstsip

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

So I think i will make a list of 10 things to do for others everyday.  

More measuring and counting, self-denial, and setting yourself up to feel like a failure if you fall short of that goal.

What about planning to do ONE genuinely enjoyable thing for yourself?

[thatfirstsip]

Acknowledging your shadow is fun! It's painful, and horrifying, but also interesting! And your life becomes more interesting to you, because there's more of you in it. Hard to do by yourself, though. I'd look for a psychodynamically trained therapist at the bare minimum, and try to commit to a year before bolting in discomfort.

[Rosie_0801]

12 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

So I think i will make a list of 10 things to do for others everyday.  

Number one on that list is to HEAL.

Because that's the best way to add goodness to the world.

No amount of helping old ladies across the road is going to negate the pain you generate trying to be superhuman.

Healing is brave. Healing is a gift to the world as well as one's self. Healing is making the most of what God gave you.

Ten healing things is too many for one day. 
Just start somewhere, on one thing that will help you relax your hold on one false belief. Like having a bunch of ugly balloons and letting one go.

[Ginevra]

17 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I will never be beautiful, so I have to be as sweet and wonderful as I can possibly be to make up for that. 

Well, you’re not really doing that. You’re projecting “insecure damaged person”, at least on here. 
 

Personally I don’t want to be know as sweet and wonderful. The people I have known who project sweet and wonderful are always full of shit. Or to use the Christian vernacular: whitewashed tombs. 

[TexasProud]

Just now, Ginevra said:

Well, you’re not really doing that. You’re projecting “insecure damaged person”, at least on here. 
 

Personally I don’t want to be know as sweet and wonderful. The people I have known who project sweet and wonderful are always full of shit. Or to use the Christian vernacular: whitewashed tombs. 

Oh believe me, only on here.

[thatfirstsip]

And also, before I started acknowledging my own bs at all, I used to defend against the conscious evidence of my shadow (my aversion toward heterosexual partnerships) by taking, consciously, the opposite position: I said to others and to myself, I am a failure at marriage but marriage (esp. monogamous het marriage) is the ideal human state, people shouldn't have sex before marriage, gays shouldn't get married, etc. I was actually quite a bigot, externally. The first step was letting go of that defense (like your "I need to be more self-sacrificing, other people are better than I am" defense). The second step was starting to feel my real position, which is the opposite of that thing. The third step is figuring out where all that antipathy is coming from in the first place.  It takes, in my experience, years.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Suppose you let go of this incorrect belief? Then you could stop raging against it, because that is what you are doing. You are building walls so you can throw yourself against them and it is horrible to witness.

Oh, this is so accurate and well stated! I have someone in my life who has spent years doing exactly this and it has been so frustrating to watch, but for some reason, they are doing it less and less recently and the difference it is making in them is profound.

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Of course. I have written about that. Of course.  You love others as you love yourself.  I know that. 

Did you spend any time thinking about the quote above from Rosie in the same post? You responded here only to the airplane mask part, but this part about building walls made of incorrect beliefs just so you can throw yourself against them was the most important part of that post, IMO.

35 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

When I went through my period of depression in 2014 before he retired, my counselor suggested we sit on the porch in the afternoon and just talk.  That lasted maybe a week.  He couldn't do it, so he finally brought trips for us to plan. 

Was I always so driven to get things done?  No, I wasn't. But what choice do I have other than to sit in the house doing nothing by myself.  Yeah, he is competent, but I really wish he wasn't sometimes. 

Have you talked to him about how much you need for him to continue making the time to just sit and talk with you in the afternoons? That you need that more than you to be planning trips and that planning trips doesn't fill the need you have to sit with him while he isn't busying himself every moment?

 

[bolt.]

2 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

And also, before I started acknowledging my own bs at all, I used to defend against the conscious evidence of my shadow (my aversion toward heterosexual partnerships) by taking, consciously, the opposite position: I said to others and to myself, I am a failure at marriage but marriage (esp. monogamous het marriage) is the ideal human state, people shouldn't have sex before marriage, gays shouldn't get married, etc. I was actually quite a bigot, externally. The first step was letting go of that defense (like your "I need to be more self-sacrificing, other people are better than I am" defense). The second step was starting to feel my real position, which is the opposite of that thing. The third step is figuring out where all that antipathy is coming from in the first place.  It takes, in my experience, years.

I want to acknowledge and thank you for this series of posts. You are really putting yourself out there. Choosing vulnerability in an attempt to help a stubborn stranger online is a noble thing to do. I'm learning from what you are saying.

[Melissa in Australia]

What does bushhog mean? I have never heard that expression before

[TexasProud]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

Have you talked to him about how much you need for him to continue making the time to just sit and talk with you in the afternoons? That you need that more than you to be planning trips and that planning trips doesn't fill the need you have to sit with him while he isn't busying himself every moment?

 

Oh he talks to me all the time.  I wrote once that he is like a shallow pool and I am a deep volcanic one.  🙂  He is constantly telling me all about his projects, his frustrations with his 24/7 migraines, our children, the mission work, etc.  Just don't ask him to sit still.  🙂  We talk on our walks together every morning.  We will talk in the long 8 hour or more car rides.  He talks to me.  But expecting him to be still will never happen. 🙂 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

What does bushhog mean? I have never heard that expression before

It is basically mowing with a tractor.  We live on 50 acres. We don't have cows anymore, so once a year or so, he needs to mow it so we can actually walk across the parts that are not forested. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Oh he talks to me all the time.  I wrote once that he is like a shallow pool and I am a deep volcanic one.  🙂  He is constantly telling me all about his projects, his frustrations with his 24/7 migraines, our children, the mission work, etc.  Just don't ask him to sit still.  🙂  We talk on our walks together every morning.  We will talk in the long 8 hour or more car rides.  He talks to me.  But expecting him to be still will never happen. 🙂 

So he talks at you?

That doesn't sound fulfilling.

25 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I find it physically painful watching you do this through a computer screen, so I can't imagine how you can think it's the right and true path.

It's like watching someone cut. It's quite upsetting. 

[TexasProud]

11 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

Well, you’re not really doing that. You’re projecting “insecure damaged person”, at least on here. 

LOL... most often I get that I am intimidating.  Not insecure. 🙂 

[regentrude]

Just now, TexasProud said:

LOL... most often I get that I am intimidating.  Not insecure. 🙂 

you seem to put on a good act around people IRL. one that is completely out of touch with the persona you are showing here repeatedly. Must be exhausting.

[Melissa in Australia]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

It is basically mowing with a tractor.  We live on 50 acres. We don't have cows anymore, so once a year or so, he needs to mow it so we can actually walk across the parts that are not forested. 

Ah, thank you  what we call slashing 

[TexasProud]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

So he talks at you?

That doesn't sound fulfilling.

 

No, if I choose to bring him a problem, he is super good at not trying to fix it and validating me, just like all of the marriage books say the guy is supposed to.  The issue is, I want it to be fixed.  LOL.  Though many times he cannot.  And yes, I have told him that. 

[KSera]

Just now, TexasProud said:

LOL... most often I get that I am intimidating.  Not insecure. 🙂 

Okay, so you're fake. You talk as if the person you are with people you talk with in person is the "real you" and the one you project here is not. I don't know why you think that. Them thinking you're intimidating and not insecure doesn't make it so.

[Melissa Louise]

I will say, Texas, that you've done your good deed for the day already.

From watching your self-harming beliefs and expressions, I am learning how it might hurt important people in my life when I sometimes do something similar 

It really hurts to watch someone do this to themselves. 

[TexasProud]

Just now, KSera said:

Okay, so you're fake. You talk as if the person you are with people you talk with in person is the "real you" and the one you project here is not. I don't know why you think that. Them thinking you're intimidating and not insecure doesn't make it so.

It isn't that at all.  I wish I could explain.  It is like I gather energy from being with people.  I am not putting on the fake smile, I am genuinely happy when I am with people.  It is only when I am all alone that I start whatever this is.  It isn't like I am thinking this and then I put something else on.  I wish I could explain it. It is like a light switch goes on.  I am not faking it. I am genuinely happy. 

[TexasProud]

Let me qualify what I just said.  Most of the time I am that way.  Now the conversation with my husband yesterday morning, yeah I had tears in my eyes and he noticed and apologized.  The mess at church ( that seems to be over thankfully) yeah, I wasn't happy.  But most of the time I am. 

[thatfirstsip]

Just now, TexasProud said:

It isn't that at all.  I wish I could explain.  It is like I gather energy from being with people.  I am not putting on the fake smile, I am genuinely happy when I am with people.  It is only when I am all alone that I start whatever this is.  It isn't like I am thinking this and then I put something else on.  I wish I could explain it. It is like a light switch goes on.  I am not faking it. I am genuinely happy. 

I'm also much less internal when I'm busy, or around other people being communal. When I'm alone at night, when the kids are asleep and the work is done, all my internal anxiety and grief bubbles up and I have to either accept it and deal with it honestly (hard) or escape it by reading fanfic online or watching TV or etc. (easier, but then my dreams are iffy and it just comes up earlier and stronger the next day)

[SKL]

Learning how to "live in the moment" might be a worthwhile goal.

Being a bit more willing to show your insecurities in real life might be helpful.

You are human.  Sometimes I find myself needing to forgive myself for being human.  Though we shouldn't need to forgive ourselves for that.