Tutor Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 My family used to love the library. We had a "library day" and everyone looked forward to it. When it was warm out, we would have a picnic at the park down the street then walk over and fill our huge library bag with books. We knew the librarians by name. They left cookies on the counter for the kids. It was clean and made every book look like the best book ever written. We would spend hours reading, listening to music, playing games, exploring or researching there. Then we moved. Our new library is dirty. The librarians are unhelpful. (They are usually friendly, although today seemed to be an exception.) There is no access to the online catalog except through the internet-only computers (which are always full), so we have to look up what we want before we go. Their selection stinks (especially from a homeschooling standpoint). Their check-out and hold policies are illogical and actually make the library an inconvenient and unwelcoming place. The straw that broke the camel's back was that I had put some books on hold for my ds. I received an email Thursday afternoon that they were ready to pick up (no date of when they had to be picked-up by and previous attempts to ask "how long do you hold books?" were met with the answer "I don't know" on numerous occasions). I went in this morning (Saturday) to pick the books up. They weren't there. The librarian asked me when I received the notice to pick them up. I told him Thursday afternoon. His response, "Oh, we only hold them for two days." I said, "Really???" Then after a brief pause, "Well, if I got the notice late Thursday, then I'd have until late today to pick it up, right? That's two days." His response was, "No. It came in early Thursday, but it takes us time to send the emails and to call people. So Thursday is the first day and Friday would be the second day. We sent it back this morning." Am I crazy, or is this just unreasonable? All I want is to be able to have a library day. Most people plan in week-long time periods, right? So materials should be able to be checked out for at least 7 days so patrons don't have to come back more than once a week (our library has 3 week check out on books and 2 days on videos and DVDs). Holds are only two days (one of which you have to be a mind reader to know it's ready to be picked up), so you have to make a special trip in to pick those up then they end up being due on a day other than your normal library day. Have I just been really spoiled by the last four places we've lived that have all had excellent or at least good libraries? Am I being unreasonable in my expectations? I have already talked to my dh and have decided to talk to a woman at church who I know has done some work with the library and see if anyone else finds the library inconvenient or if it's just me. I am going to attend some board meetings and offer to help out. If no help is desired or my suggestions are met with antagonism (I am assuming this will not be the case, but I want to be prepared), I am going to start my own private library for homeschoolers. I've had it. In the meantime, I am going to ask friends if they have books I can borrow for my kids to read once they've cycled through all of ours. I'll have to find the money to buy the books they'll need for projects and research and such. (Not sure where that money will come from, though.) Thanks for letting me vent. Arg. (I can still feel the blood vessels pulsing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Wow! Your library does sound like it leaves a lot to be desired! I'm so sorry that you've had this experience. Libraries should be warm welcoming places - with good service for their patrons! I hope the library board is open to listening to you. Your passion for a good library is a very good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Wow -- I thought we had the worst library imaginable. You win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alana in Canada Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 We are fortunate to have it good. Really, really good. Our libraries "hold" policy is seven days for me to pick it up. My requests are active for a year (which is good. I'm #243rd in line for "T" is for Trespass, by Sue Grafton lol!) I get an e-mail notice when it comes in--or before the system was hooked up to the internet, I'd get a generic automated phone call. (If I wanted to know precisely which items were in, there was a number to call.) Check out: DVD's and videos are one week, with one renewal allowed. Books are three weeks with two renewals allowed (assuming someone else hasn't put any of the materials on hold. If they have, then you must return it.) Good luck. Find out who sets the policies--it probably isn't the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I would make them turn around and request the books again and go through the work of getting them in again, notifying you again, etc. and explain to them that level of wastefulness would not be necessary if their system made a little more sense. And I would continue doing that as long as it took for them to get the message. Our library system sends out an email notification of holds on the day they are received and you have 5 days to pick up the books, which is much more reasonable. Most movie rentals are for one week, although some popular, new rentals may only be for a shorter time period (I forget how long as I never rent from them, sorry). Those shorter rentals also cost $1. I think getting involved is a great idea. Others here have mentioned in past that they belong to multiple library systems in the area surrounding where they live. It might be possible for you to find another, better location, and perhaps your librarian acquaintance will be able to help you with that. I think starting your own library is another great idea. I started a library last year for a hs coop I was involved with. I used my Scholastic points that I'd been saving for years, as well as those that accrued from the orders of those in coop over the course of the school year. Scholastic regularly offers deals of 100 books for $99, etc., and you can use your saved points from purchases to buy those book sets, too. I have also heard that sometimes book warehouses, or discount book sellers, will give away boxes of overstocked or slightly damaged books. They might be willing to donate if they knew it was for a lending library, especially as they can take a tax write off for it, I believe.... Regena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 My family used to love the library. We had a "library day" and everyone looked forward to it. ... I pay $30 annually to the neighboring county to use their system. Much cheaper than Amazon! It pained me to go to my local library with a list of ten books or several subjects and find absolutely nothing in the system. I remember when my then fourth grade son was to write a biographic report on a composer. There were no biographies on composers in the children's section--just bios of athletes. Argh... The neighboring county's system has more books and "real" librarians. They had already owned a number of Teaching Company lectures, but seem to be acquiring even more. Of course, the library is at a distance for me now. But we combine our trips there with other errands, my son's hockey games or practices, etc. With computerized renewals, I can minimize the fines. Happiness has again been found. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabeth in IL Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 That is awfully short. Our library holds books for a week. They definately need to inform their employees of the policies. Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'll comiserate with you as well. We have a dreadful library. Our books can only be checked out for two weeks at a time. While you can renew online last time I tried to do that I checked the box to renew ALL resources and one didn't get renewed. Now I owe an overdue fee. Last time I was there the librarian couldn't even tell me why, I had to figure it out on my own. I spend my time shopping at thrift stores, sales racks and online for books. That way they are available when I need them and no more trips that heighten my blood pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenParrish Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Kudos to you for considering starting a Homeschool Library. We are really lucky here. We have a VERY Homeschool Friendly Library. They even FREE events for us. FYI, our pick up window is 5 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I pay $30 annually to the neighboring county to use their system. Much cheaper than Amazon! same here, well, $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I have a great library. 3 day hold policy. Plenty of resources for homeschool needs and my library has a reciprocal agreement with neighboring county so if it's not in the system here I stop by one of the libraries in the next county. This comes from living in an area with a very highly educated population. However, the other side is my area is an outrageously expensive region in which to live and it is quite congested if you try to drive any distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Our county library is really bad, but I pay $25 annually to use the neighboring county's library system, which is excellent. Any possibility you're close enough to another system to join theirs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinmom Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 At my library, which is generally really good, I had a bad experience this week that I am still smarting over. When asked for a specific service to be added to my children's new cards (I've had one for a long time, theirs are an extension of mine), I was informed that only certified teachers were allowed to have it the day they received their cards. I replied that I was a teacher...a fact that they were well aware of as I checked out 20 history books and discussed the fact that we homeschool literature-based history. The librarian said that no, I was not a CERTIFIED teacher. I kindly replied that I was a teacher and should be qualified for the upgrade. I was tersely told that no, I was NOT a certified teacher. I again replied that I was a teacher and was told, in front of my child, that I was not. So, I guess teachers employed by the state are doing "real school"...I'm just playing at it? Grrr... Home school friendly? I think not. Frankly, I don't care about the service at all, but I sure do care about the fact that I was called out in that way in front of my home schooled child. What does she think I am, a pretend teacher? And, though this is completely beside the point, I did take the time to inform her that I am more highly educated than the average "certified teacher," whom I don't believe is also required to act as principal, curriculum committee, supply purchaser, guidance counselor, resource teacher, lunch lady, etc. in addition to her teaching duties. Hmphh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Wow, that stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMindy Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 That is a bummer!!! They obviously made a mistake. I can't imagine only holding books for two days!! That is crazy. You have made me very thankful for our library!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 My family used to love the library. We had a "library day" and everyone looked forward to it. When it was warm out, we would have a picnic at the park down the street then walk over and fill our huge library bag with books. We knew the librarians by name. They left cookies on the counter for the kids. It was clean and made every book look like the best book ever written. We would spend hours reading, listening to music, playing games, exploring or researching there. Then we moved. Our new library is dirty. The librarians are unhelpful. (They are usually friendly, although today seemed to be an exception.) There is no access to the online catalog except through the internet-only computers (which are always full), so we have to look up what we want before we go. Their selection stinks (especially from a homeschooling standpoint). Their check-out and hold policies are illogical and actually make the library an inconvenient and unwelcoming place. The straw that broke the camel's back was that I had put some books on hold for my ds. I received an email Thursday afternoon that they were ready to pick up (no date of when they had to be picked-up by and previous attempts to ask "how long do you hold books?" were met with the answer "I don't know" on numerous occasions). I went in this morning (Saturday) to pick the books up. They weren't there. The librarian asked me when I received the notice to pick them up. I told him Thursday afternoon. His response, "Oh, we only hold them for two days." I said, "Really???" Then after a brief pause, "Well, if I got the notice late Thursday, then I'd have until late today to pick it up, right? That's two days." His response was, "No. It came in early Thursday, but it takes us time to send the emails and to call people. So Thursday is the first day and Friday would be the second day. We sent it back this morning." Am I crazy, or is this just unreasonable? All I want is to be able to have a library day. Most people plan in week-long time periods, right? So materials should be able to be checked out for at least 7 days so patrons don't have to come back more than once a week (our library has 3 week check out on books and 2 days on videos and DVDs). Holds are only two days (one of which you have to be a mind reader to know it's ready to be picked up), so you have to make a special trip in to pick those up then they end up being due on a day other than your normal library day. Have I just been really spoiled by the last four places we've lived that have all had excellent or at least good libraries? Am I being unreasonable in my expectations? I have already talked to my dh and have decided to talk to a woman at church who I know has done some work with the library and see if anyone else finds the library inconvenient or if it's just me. I am going to attend some board meetings and offer to help out. If no help is desired or my suggestions are met with antagonism (I am assuming this will not be the case, but I want to be prepared), I am going to start my own private library for homeschoolers. I've had it. In the meantime, I am going to ask friends if they have books I can borrow for my kids to read once they've cycled through all of ours. I'll have to find the money to buy the books they'll need for projects and research and such. (Not sure where that money will come from, though.) Thanks for letting me vent. Arg. (I can still feel the blood vessels pulsing.) I'm right with you on your venting--I'd be angry if that happened to me, but can I make a few gentle suggestions as someone who's been there/done that? I understand that by the time you go to the library board meeting you'll probably be all cooled off, and very calm, but if you go *expecting* antagonism, that's probably what you'll get. It's also probably not realistic to expect that if you come into the meeting expecting to change lots of things immediately that they will welcome you. Most or all of the folks who are there are volunteers, and even though their leadership skills may leave a lot to be desired, you can certainly show respect for those people, if for no other reason than that they've been willing to put themselves "out there" in the community rather than sitting home with a cool glass of lemonade. :001_smile: With all of that said, I think you should go into the board meeting with a smile, an offer to help, and *no* comments (yet) about what you think should be changed. Let them get to know you and respect you first, and you'll have a MUCH easier time implementing changes that you know would be good for everyone. You may want to research ahead of time exactly how one comes to serve on the library board. In my town it's an actual legal process, where an application must be submitted at city hall, and then at a city council meeting the members of the city council decide whether or not to appoint you to a position on the library commission. I know the process varies, though, so it's a good idea to try to find out ahead of time. If you find that you can't actually become a member of the board right now, show your interest and ask if you can "sit in" on the meetings anyway, and then stay relatively quiet for the first meeting or two until you understand the dynamics of the group. In a nutshell, they *must* like you before you'll be able to affect much change. The first matter that you should bring up (when the time is right) is a *written* policy for the checkout/renewal/reservation policy. This will prompt them to really discuss what the policies should be, and make them more concrete for everyone. Offer to produce a very nice (printed and framed) sign to hang where folks can see it. As for the online library catalog, it's very difficult to have a dedicated machine for that when the clamor for internet access is so strong. It takes a larger chunk out of the library budget than you might think to serve the technical aspect of the library. This would be a place where you might offer to help with fundraising for a new computer station dedicated to the online catalog. Make sure they have the space for it, and then make sure that you have a plan for the fundraising. The Friends of the Library organization might be able to help with that, or you may be on your own. If you end up doing the fundraising, I've found that rather than selling something, the best way is for one person (maybe you) to seek out the wealthiest people in town and ask each of them for a concrete amount, not just whatever they can give. For instance, say "I need 10 people who want to see our library thrive to each give $100 for the purpose of an online catalog." If they give you the money, ask them if they know anyone else who might be willing to give. As soon as one person bites, you'll be able to say to the next person, "Mr. so & so gave us $100 for this use, and mentioned you as another prospective concerned citizen who would probably be willing to contribute." If it helps, you can design a recognition sign that would hang near the computer station, and then you'd be able to pitch it not only to private contributors, but businesses too, who would be able to see the advertising aspect as an advantage. Remember, you only need probably 10 people to agree to this--it's easier than you think! You could probably accomplish the dedicated computer thing within, oh...a month, if you worked on it for 2-3 hours per week. THERE! Two of your desires would be met already...the point is seeing *why* something isn't already being done, not assuming the people there are just stupid (even when they appear that way :D), and taking concrete steps to fix the problem. Many things go by that everyone thinks should be changed, for lack of a plan to fix things. Sorry, I didn't mean to write you a book, but I felt the same way you did about my awful local library, and carried out a process very similar to this. It's been about a year & everything hasn't been "fixed" yet, but I'm easing into it. I'm also willing to put in the time, and I think it's good for my dc to see the process. It's activism on a small-scale, which is just right for me. My dc are seeing that you *can* make a difference, but not usually by complaining. It's through someone's hard work that positive changes come about, in this case it's me doing the work. That's ok. It only comes to about 3 hours per month for me most of the time. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Is there another library at a neighboring town that you can pay to use, or is there a university nearby that allows local patrons? I'm so sorry you are having this experience! I am always under the misguided notion that librarians are kind and book-loving souls. When they don't live up to that I'm always doubly disappointed because how could anyone not appreciate being surrounded by books? ~Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I'm so sorry you are having this experience! I am always under the misguided notion that librarians are kind and book-loving souls. When they don't live up to that I'm always doubly disappointed because how could anyone not appreciate being surrounded by books? ~Dana Many librarians view their job as the keeping of books, not the serving of those who read the books. It's very sad, but it seems that most folks who are educated in library services are *not* super-outgoing. They tend to be folks who'd rather "have their nose in a good book." ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamasteff Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Many librarians view their job as the keeping of books, not the serving of those who read the books. It's very sad, but it seems that most folks who are educated in library services are *not* super-outgoing. They tend to be folks who'd rather "have their nose in a good book." ;) That was actually the reason I went to library school and got my MLIS (master's of library and information science). The library worker (NOT librarian!!) who worked at the ps I taught at was a book guard, not wanting anyone to check anything out. It makes me so sad to read these stories, but I know that sadly, they are not isolated instances. There are librarian stereotypes that I personally HATE, but they are stereotypes for a reason. Many of the people working in the library are not the librarian. They are service workers. I know my hometown library does not have ONE librarian, with the training that goes along with it. They have been trained to do one or two tasks, and not to think. So, I'm sorry, on behalf of all the real librarians, that they have not been taught Ranganathan's Laws of the Library (I learned them in my first class, and number 1 was it for me!!) Books are for use. Every reader his [or her] book. Every book its reader. Save the time of the User. The library is a growing organism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn E Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Tutor, I'm so sorry! And, shocked, too! We loved the library! We often dream of it in comparison with the current library we have. No interlibrary loans here, no computer catalog or even computer access. We actually have a card catalog only--can you imagine. I would wager that only 1/2 of the books in the card catalog are still on the shelves. Also, the most recent books (aside from the few most popular fiction and non-fiction purchases) appear to have been bought in the late 70s, early 80s. It's so depressing we just don't go. You would think that a library in an impoverished area would be set up as a beacon of hope. Not so. They are still operating on a budget from the 1950s. And, though there are wealthy people in this town as well, there are no "Friends of the Library." I need to follow in your steps and try to rally some change for here. I'm afraid our state leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to libraries. :sad: Hope you see some positive change soon. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 That was actually the reason I went to library school and got my MLIS (master's of library and information science). The library worker (NOT librarian!!) who worked at the ps I taught at was a book guard, not wanting anyone to check anything out. It makes me so sad to read these stories, but I know that sadly, they are not isolated instances. There are librarian stereotypes that I personally HATE, but they are stereotypes for a reason. Many of the people working in the library are not the librarian. They are service workers. I know my hometown library does not have ONE librarian, with the training that goes along with it. They have been trained to do one or two tasks, and not to think. So, I'm sorry, on behalf of all the real librarians, that they have not been taught Ranganathan's Laws of the Library (I learned them in my first class, and number 1 was it for me!!) Books are for use. Every reader his [or her] book. Every book its reader. Save the time of the User. The library is a growing organism. Bless your heart. You're one of the good guys. One of my best friends from college has her MLS (I don't think Info science was even an option at that time) and has worked for the library system in Seattle library for many years. I *love* Ranganathan's Laws of the Library! ~Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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