Feelings about the relationship versus the person?

[Not_a_Number]

This is maybe an odd question, but it has come up recently. 

Would you say that your feelings about your relationship with a person are separate from your feelings about that person themselves? 

For me specifically, this has come up in the context of my feelings about DH versus my feelings about our relationship. I realized that my feelings about the relationship itself had been pretty negative (and pretty problem-solving oriented -- I wanted it to be better!) at the same time as my feelings about DH himself had been pretty positive.

Does anyone else experience things in this way? 

[Lecka]

I do think I have some good/acceptable relationships with people I think are difficult, but we are both making an effort to maintain a relationship.  I think this about one of my sisters.  
 

In general I like these to match.  
 

I think there are people I like but we aren’t doing anything to further or maintain a relationship.  We aren’t doing any work.  Or one does reach out and the other is annoyed by it, and then vice versa, or things like that.  I would think more of people I’m either not close to or it just hasn’t worked out to be close to them, we aren’t compatible in some way, and we also aren’t motivated or dedicated to do it just for the sake of the relationship.

 

[Faith-manor]

Yes. Not so much within our marriage, but definitely within other family relationships. My feelings towards a certain niece are very positive. It breaks my heart that we have to distance ourselves because of choices she is making. We tried so hard to figure out how to have a relationship with her, but we can't fix anything until she makes some different choices. As a result, we love her very much from afar and are not hard hearted at all towards her, but at the same time acknowledge that a relationship is not possible at this time.

I have friends who opted to divorce who felt very similarly. They loved each other very much, and yet couldn't seem to fix the things that would have made married life possible. There were a LOT of incompatibilities, and love + positive feelings still didn't make living together feasible. So I can definitely see how it is possible to be in such a position.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Yes. Not so much within our marriage, but definitely within other family relationships. My feelings towards a certain niece are very positive. It breaks my heart that we have to distance ourselves because of choices she is making. We tried so hard to figure out how to have a relationship with her, but we can't fix anything until she makes some different choices. As a result, we love her very much from afar and are not hard hearted at all towards her, but at the same time acknowledge that a relationship is not possible at this time.

I'm really sorry. That's a tough situation. We're having a similar situation with my sister right now so I really empathize. 

 

Just now, Faith-manor said:

I have friends who opted to divorce who felt very similarly. They loved each other very much, and yet couldn't seem to fix the things that would have made married life possible. There were a LOT of incompatibilities, and love + positive feelings still didn't make living together feasible. So I can definitely see how it is possible to be in such a position.

Yeah. That sounds familiar.

Fingers crossed DH and I aren't going to get divorced -- we seem to be in a much better place now -- but for a while, it seemed like a very plausible outcome, and a better one that continuing forward as we were.

[Ausmumof3]

I have not thought about it but it absolutely makes sense to think about it like that. I guess that’s what people mean when they say things like “we were two nice people who weren’t meant to be together” or “I like my ex but I couldn’t live with him/her anymore”.

 

Sometimes external factors might impact the relationship like health, employment, depression, childbirth, etc etc that don’t change our feelings toward the person but definitely impact our happiness in the relationship. Sometimes it’s internal factors like communication skills, ability to understand each other 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Ausmumof3

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I have not thought about it but it absolutely makes sense to think about it like that. I guess that’s what people mean when they say things like “we were two nice people who weren’t meant to be together” or “I like my ex but I couldn’t live with him/her anymore”.

The interactions between people form a system that’s informed by a lot more than mutual liking or even shared values.

DH and I were on the same wavelength and had very similar values. But we had learned really dysfunctional interaction styles from our respective families and this meant that our dynamics never really worked — we could never make decisions together effectively. (The fact that we had a lot in common papered this fact over for a good long while, but it had always been true.)

Edited August 16, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[Grace Hopper]

Pretty sure that’s the whole theme of The Way We Were. 

[kbutton]

Yep! It’s not necessarily something that is always a problem for me though.

[Ginevra]

Yes; I think that is more typical of your “obligatory” relationships than your purely voluntary ones. Like, I can feel certain things about, say, my relationship with a sibling, but it could be separate from how I would feel about that sibling if there were no layers of history to work with. 

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Pretty sure that’s the whole theme of The Way We Were. 

I haven’t seen it! 

[Katy]

I think it's very common in any relationship (friend, family member, romantic partner, former romantic partner, etc) when one person is for the most part emotionally healthy and the other has an active mental illness and/or addiction. I love you but I won't engage with you when you're unstable and untreated and I'm not allowing you time with my children either.

I don't think I've experienced this outside those parameters.

[Shoeless]

Yep. I can think of several people whom I love despite the relationship being lousy. 

Some people are small-serving friends. Like, I can't have a large serving of them because it's too much at once.

[fraidycat]

Yes. People and relationships are so complicated, so it makes sense that there would be different "layers" of feelings. About the person, the relationship, the person you are when in contact with that person, etc.

Yes, I definitely experience those "complications". 

[Grace Hopper]

15 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I haven’t seen it! 

Watch it! You will cry! It’s nice and cathartic. And honestly has held up pretty well for a lotta reasons. 

[Clarita]

Yes and similar to you and your DH, mine is now an ex and we never got married.

He's actually a decent guy he just has some issues that get in the way of relationships. When paired with my issues, it made our relationship pretty toxic. We are actually still friends and he's friends with my husband but we decided long ago we are bad for each other (interestingly his mom agrees).

[Not_a_Number]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:30 PM, Katy said:

I think it's very common in any relationship (friend, family member, romantic partner, former romantic partner, etc) when one person is for the most part emotionally healthy and the other has an active mental illness and/or addiction. I love you but I won't engage with you when you're unstable and untreated and I'm not allowing you time with my children either.

I don't think I've experienced this outside those parameters.

It was partially that for us! But it was also like . . . I liked a LOT of things about DH, and we were very much on the same wavelength in terms of how we saw the world, and I even liked what kind of human being he was with his friends . . . but as it turns out, I didn't like who he was with his partners (or his family.) But it took me a while to figure that out, because I come from a pretty chaotic background myself and simply didn't understand what it looked like when someone else genuinely watches out for me with good will. 

So it was more like . . . I really liked him and got him and thought he had excellent raw material, but I also felt like we had built up a really toxic relationship. 

But it's true that his mental health issues were precisely what got in the way of him having a reasonable relationship. So it's almost like I really liked a version of him that he'd be if he dealt with himself and I could see just how this version would look like (because he was like this in other areas of life), but he wasn't actually that person. 

[kathyl]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It was partially that for us! But it was also like . . . I liked a LOT of things about DH, and we were very much on the same wavelength in terms of how we saw the world, and I even liked what kind of human being he was with his friends . . . but as it turns out, I didn't like who he was with his partners (or his family.) But it took me a while to figure that out, because I come from a pretty chaotic background myself and simply didn't understand what it looked like when someone else genuinely watches out for me with good will. 

So it was more like . . . I really liked him and got him and thought he had excellent raw material, but I also felt like we had built up a really toxic relationship. 

But it's true that his mental health issues were precisely what got in the way of him having a reasonable relationship. So it's almost like I really liked a version of him that he'd be if he dealt with himself and I could see just how this version would look like (because he was like this in other areas of life), but he wasn't actually that person. 

Yes, I understand this.  Sometimes I wish I had the version of my dh that I knew back when we first met.  Cuz he turned out to be nothing like that person.  And it makes me sad sometimes. 

I can understand why he is the way he is.  And I can understand that there's not a single thing I can do about it.  And that he will probably always be the way he is.  I just don't like it most of the time.  But, oh well.  Such is life.   

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, kathyl said:

Yes, I understand this.  Sometimes I wish I had the version of my dh that I knew back when we first met.  Cuz he turned out to be nothing like that person.  And it makes me sad sometimes. 

I can understand why he is the way he is.  And I can understand that there's not a single thing I can do about it.  And that he will probably always be the way he is.  I just don't like it most of the time.  But, oh well.  Such is life.   

Gosh. I'm sorry. That sounds very depressing for you. 

[J-rap]

The relationship part will always be harder than the individual part.  

But I believe it's also true that mental health issues are often most noticeable within relationships.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, J-rap said:

The relationship part will always be harder than the individual part.  

But I believe it's also true that mental health issues are often most noticeable within relationships.

Yes. Proximity brings out our demons. 

Actually, something a bit sad I've noticed in our group of friends is that people were often getting along best when they have small children -- not, like, they never fight, but they're in it together, and the children are too little for their needs to be psychologically very demanding or to press on people's triggers. 

And then the shared project of surviving babies and toddlers passes, and the babies become kids, who are also in close proximity to one but are now little people who DO set you off, and then you're back to needing to manage your demons, except now you have less time and more stress and more people depending on you . . . so if you haven't dealt with them before, it's kind of an uphill battle. 

At least, I've now seen this in at least 5 couples, probably more. It's kind of a sad dance to watch. 

[kathyl]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Gosh. I'm sorry. That sounds very depressing for you. 

No, I've never been prone to depression.  I just go about my life and he goes about his.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, kathyl said:

No, I've never been prone to depression.  I just go about my life and he goes about his.  

Glad you've found a way to cope. It sounds hard 😕 . 

[Lecka]

Oh, my husband has several friends who are amazing friends and would do anything for their friends.  They are just amazing, amazing friends.  
 

But they can’t figure it out with a partner and some are also estranged from their kids.  
 

If only it was easy to be a partner as to be a friend, for people this way.  It is tragic and heartbreaking.  
 

They are just different relationships, they have different expectations.  What it means to be amazing is very different.

 

To some extent they are really good for a big, time-limited thing.  Or they are good for low-key things.  
 

But just day-in day-out they may not do as well.  
 

That’s as much as I can see.

 

There’s also just a different kind of intimacy.  It may be a high level if intimacy in a friendship, but it’s not the same as for a partner where it is that level and type of intimacy that can go with being partners.  It’s just different.  
 

I think it can also matter whether it’s an obligation or not.  Some people hate obligations.  To me I think I have some obligations as a partner to be considerate of my partner and think about his needs, just as a general part of my life.  That is just not needed for friends, I don’t think.  I don’t think it’s needed in daily decision-making or just how I go about my day.  But there are things I do daily that, to some degree, are based around the person I happen to be a partner with, and his preferences, and things like that.  
 

We also have to cooperate around our most basic life decisions, which is not expected with friends.

 

But I think the biggest thing is just — someone can be a great friend because there are just different expectations.  
 

I don’t think a partner is just a really good friend. It’s different than that.  

[Not_a_Number]

20 hours ago, Lecka said:

Oh, my husband has several friends who are amazing friends and would do anything for their friends.  They are just amazing, amazing friends.  
 

But they can’t figure it out with a partner and some are also estranged from their kids.  
 

If only it was easy to be a partner as to be a friend, for people this way.  It is tragic and heartbreaking.  
 

They are just different relationships, they have different expectations.  What it means to be amazing is very different.

 

To some extent they are really good for a big, time-limited thing.  Or they are good for low-key things.  
 

But just day-in day-out they may not do as well.  
 

That’s as much as I can see.

 

There’s also just a different kind of intimacy.  It may be a high level if intimacy in a friendship, but it’s not the same as for a partner where it is that level and type of intimacy that can go with being partners.  It’s just different.  
 

I think it can also matter whether it’s an obligation or not.  Some people hate obligations.  To me I think I have some obligations as a partner to be considerate of my partner and think about his needs, just as a general part of my life.  That is just not needed for friends, I don’t think.  I don’t think it’s needed in daily decision-making or just how I go about my day.  But there are things I do daily that, to some degree, are based around the person I happen to be a partner with, and his preferences, and things like that.  
 

We also have to cooperate around our most basic life decisions, which is not expected with friends.

 

But I think the biggest thing is just — someone can be a great friend because there are just different expectations.  
 

I don’t think a partner is just a really good friend. It’s different than that.  

There were reasons DH did better with friends. Probably too complicated to get into. It’s definitely true that he’s somewhat demand-avoidant in certain emotional contexts, and that really got in the way.

Certainly equating “good friend” and “good partner” is like saying that because something is a good book, it should be a good meal. Like… it’s the same word, but it just doesn’t mean the same thing in the widely different contexts.

I do think you can evaluate someone’s character from their behavior in a wide variety of circumstances, though. I didn’t feel like I had been wrong about him — it’s just that I only saw part of who he was. I didn’t see some of his damage, because he didn’t want me to, and because I closed my eyes to it. It was easier to ignore, until it wasn’t . . .