Elderly advice: anything not thinking about

[TexasProud]

My step-dad had a stroke 20 years ago. He doesn't have complete use of his left arm or leg, but gets around surprisingly well.  There are also cognitive issues, though they are very hard to detect sometimes if you don't know him...mainly in the area of reasoning. He is in his early 70's. 

He was living by himself in Arlington and driving short distances to the grocery store, daily Starbucks, etc.  He fell and broke his pelvic bone and went to a rehab close to my step-brother and then into an independent living facility in Dallas. With all of the rehab, he is getting around so much better now, as well as he was before 2020 when he just didn't get enough movement because of the shut-downs. When I have visited him there everyone knows who he is.  They have tons of activities, a few of which he goes to, but most he does not.  His short term memory is bad so some of it is that he can't remember anyone's names. 

His friends that are in his 80's are all back in Arlington. They toured a few places there, but none are nearly as good as where he is.  Plus, my step-brother and his family (elementary aged kids) live  a short distance from the assisted living place.  So they can just drop by and pick him up to go to soccer games and whatever, which they couldn't do when he was an hour or more away depending on traffic in Arlington. 

He figured out Uber and traveled back to Arlington to get his car, which thankfully wouldn't start.  None of us really wanted him driving in Dallas where he isn't familiar. So my stepbrother took him to a doctor, who cleared him to drive, but suggested he only drive to the nearby Starbucks and Krogers.  He agreed to that.

Well, he just drove back to Arlington to see his old neighbor...  He made it back and forth safely, but yikes.  At the same time, not sure we can really do anything except wait for him to get in an accident.  The doctor cleared him. He is like a teenager as well in that he fesses up AFTER he does whatever he wants to do. 

Is there anything else I need to advise my step-brother to do? 

[DawnM]

Can you put a tracking device on the car so you know where he is at all times?   I would start with that.   However, in all honesty, he probably should not be driving at all.

[TexasProud]

Just now, DawnM said:

Can you put a tracking device on the car so you know where he is at all times?   I would start with that.   However, in all honesty, he probably should not be driving at all.

Honestly, I agree, but the doctor said he could!!!! UGGH..  I honestly thought he would say he could not drive.  Good idea about the tracker. Will tell him that. 

[DawnM]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Honestly, I agree, but the doctor said he could!!!! UGGH..  I honestly thought he would say he could not drive.  Good idea about the tracker. Will tell him that. 

The state of NC gave my dad a DL and I was so mad!   

[bolt.]

Would he believe the threat of, "If your doctor finds out that you have gone beyond the driving limit they set for you, the doctor will be taking away your license completely. The next time you do this, if you ever do it again, I will call and tell him that you have been violating the doctor's orders. Now let's talk about better ways for you to get to the places your friends live. Because I don't want you losing the ability to get your own groceries and coffee either."

[TexasProud]

23 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Would he believe the threat of, "If your doctor finds out that you have gone beyond the driving limit they set for you, the doctor will be taking away your license completely. The next time you do this, if you ever do it again, I will call and tell him that you have been violating the doctor's orders. Now let's talk about better ways for you to get to the places your friends live. Because I don't want you losing the ability to get your own groceries and coffee either."

I will suggest it to him.  My step father is EXTREMELY stubborn.  My mom was the only one who could handle him.  My guess is he would say ok just like he did before and honestly, I don't think he is lying.  He had no intention of driving that far.  But missed his friends and impulsively went. He doesn't have much impulse control to be honest.  I have also suggested having his account only have a little money in it as I could so see him driving up and buying a camper van on a whim.  He has been talking about it forever. 

[Halftime Hope]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

My step-dad had a stroke 20 years ago. He doesn't have complete use of his left arm or leg, but gets around surprisingly well.  There are also cognitive issues, though they are very hard to detect sometimes if you don't know him...mainly in the area of reasoning. He is in his early 70's. 

He was living by himself in Arlington and driving short distances to the grocery store, daily Starbucks, etc.  He fell and broke his pelvic bone and went to a rehab close to my step-brother and then into an independent living facility in Dallas. With all of the rehab, he is getting around so much better now, as well as he was before 2020 when he just didn't get enough movement because of the shut-downs. When I have visited him there everyone knows who he is.  They have tons of activities, a few of which he goes to, but most he does not.  His short term memory is bad so some of it is that he can't remember anyone's names. 

His friends that are in his 80's are all back in Arlington. They toured a few places there, but none are nearly as good as where he is.  Plus, my step-brother and his family (elementary aged kids) live  a short distance from the assisted living place.  So they can just drop by and pick him up to go to soccer games and whatever, which they couldn't do when he was an hour or more away depending on traffic in Arlington. 

He figured out Uber and traveled back to Arlington to get his car, which thankfully wouldn't start.  None of us really wanted him driving in Dallas where he isn't familiar. So my stepbrother took him to a doctor, who cleared him to drive, but suggested he only drive to the nearby Starbucks and Krogers.  He agreed to that.

Well, he just drove back to Arlington to see his old neighbor...  He made it back and forth safely, but yikes.  At the same time, not sure we can really do anything except wait for him to get in an accident.  The doctor cleared him. He is like a teenager as well in that he fesses up AFTER he does whatever he wants to do. 

Is there anything else I need to advise my step-brother to do? 

My FIL had multiple issues that kept him from being a safe driver, although he had the physical strength to drive. The doc told him he should not drive, but FIL was not going to give it up, even after we reminded him that his best buddy was involved in a fatal car accident, and that accident cost the widow, literally, "the farm". She was left destitute after the accident causing a life-changing injury, all because of the difficulty of finding transportation in semi-rural PA. 

We promised my FIL that the family (three adults) would take him anywhere he wanted, this being prior to Uber. And we'd drop him off places and make ourselves scarce so he didn't feel like we were hovering.

We did end up having to disable his car, but by then, he had pretty much become resigned.

For your step-dad, is public transportation an option? TRE goes through GP and Arlington and it's mostly office commuters during daytime hours. (Don't answer me here; I just wanted to prompt that avenue of thought.)

 

[73349]

If the car is a GM and if it has On Star, there's Family Link, which will text you if the car goes somewhere unexpected. https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-technology/onstar/onstar-family-link/

I would also want to talk with him specifically about the risk he puts other people in when he drives beyond the generous limits his doctor has set. It's one thing to risk one's own safety, but what would it do to him if he hit, say, a young family, and disabled or killed people?

 

Family members (like you and his son) could discuss the pros and cons of just making the car keys get "lost."

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by 73349

[TexasProud]

50 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

 

For your step-dad, is public transportation an option? TRE goes through GP and Arlington and it's mostly office commuters during daytime hours. (Don't answer me here; I just wanted to prompt that avenue of thought.)

 

The place where he lives has transportation that will take him anywhere he wants to go. They also have regular transportation to the grocery store.  There is a coffee shop INSIDE his complex.  (This is the absolute nicest place I have ever been.  They have a chef in a lovely dining room. They have a workout place with a trainer that is open all the hours to supervise and help people.  There are small libraries in different spots in the complex.  They have professors come and speak on various topics.  They have clubs that meet and go places. They have a schedule they put out each week.  Each day has 10-12 different things you could chose from.  But he wanted his car so he could go when he wanted to, when. He doesn't want to wait. 

He has his car keys with him 24/7, so I am not sure how my step brother could get to them and "lose: them. 

[Halftime Hope]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

The place where he lives has transportation that will take him anywhere he wants to go. They also have regular transportation to the grocery store.  There is a coffee shop INSIDE his complex.  (This is the absolute nicest place I have ever been.  They have a chef in a lovely dining room. They have a workout place with a trainer that is open all the hours to supervise and help people.  There are small libraries in different spots in the complex.  They have professors come and speak on various topics.  They have clubs that meet and go places. They have a schedule they put out each week.  Each day has 10-12 different things you could chose from.  But he wanted his car so he could go when he wanted to, when. He doesn't want to wait. 

He has his car keys with him 24/7, so I am not sure how my step brother could get to them and "lose: them. 

It might be helpful to let your step-brother solve it. But please, tell him you'll support him in whatever way he needs you to. We've been the primary care-givers for elderly parents, and we've been helpers. It is invaluable to have a united front and siblings assisting who are on the same page. And beware S-F playing siblings off against each other. (btdt)

1) Step-brother can call the doc and let them know SF is not abiding by the 'short trips' agreement. He can remind the doctor that the doc said driving was permissible, and that if a court case results from an accident, the defense would certainly point out the doc's advice, thus making the doc liable. 2) There are numerous other, creative things that S-B could do to help, including facilitating regular visits with SF's friends. 

Good luck!

[TexasProud]

14 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

It might be helpful to let your step-brother solve it. But please, tell him you'll support him in whatever way he needs you to. We've been the primary care-givers for elderly parents, and we've been helpers. It is invaluable to have a united front and siblings assisting who are on the same page. And beware S-F playing siblings off against each other. (btdt)

1) Step-brother can call the doc and let them know SF is not abiding by the 'short trips' agreement. He can remind the doctor that the doc said driving was permissible, and that if a court case results from an accident, the defense would certainly point out the doc's advice, thus making the doc liable. 2) There are numerous other, creative things that S-B could do to help, including facilitating regular visits with SF's friends. 

Good luck!

never mind...too personal

Edited May 29, 2023 by TexasProud

[Pawz4me]

I could be wrong, but I don't think a doctor has any authority to revoke a person's drivers license. According to this source in six states medical personnel are required to report the names of patients who aren't capable of safely driving to the DMV/DOT. In other states they're allowed or encouraged to report, but not required to. But then it's up to the DMV/DOT to do a review. I don't think a doctor would face any liability issues except in the states where it's mandatory that they report.

I believe in most states family members or other individuals can report someone to the DMV/DOT. You could check the Texas law on that and see how those reports are handled.

I've known a few people who've done something mechanical to disable the vehicle and then stalled a loooong time on getting it "fixed."

Edited May 29, 2023 by Pawz4me

[historically accurate]

Would he be willing to gift the car to a grandchild who needs one or something? That's how we removed FIL's car - he wasn't willing to just give it up because of his limitations, but he was willing to gift it (actually to us) since we "needed" a second car. 

[history-fan]

https://www.elderoptionsoftexas.com/how-to-get-elderly-parents-to-quit-driving.htm

https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/drivers-age-79-or-older
 

not sure if you are in Texas but I thought this had information, especially the part about requesting dmv to test elder driver.

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, history-fan said:

https://www.elderoptionsoftexas.com/how-to-get-elderly-parents-to-quit-driving.htm

https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/drivers-age-79-or-older
 

not sure if you are in Texas but I thought this had information, especially the part about requesting dmv to test elder driver.

I will forward it to him, though I think I did that from a different thread where someone talked about it.  But I will send it to him again. 

[TexasProud]

2 hours ago, historically accurate said:

Would he be willing to gift the car to a grandchild who needs one or something? That's how we removed FIL's car - he wasn't willing to just give it up because of his limitations, but he was willing to gift it (actually to us) since we "needed" a second car. 

Well, actually he has this one because last summer when he wrecked their car (not his fault. An Amazon truck ran into him.), they didn't have one.  He was just going to go out and buy a new car, but my sister had a car she wasn't using..   So if this one doesn't work for a long period of time, I wouldn't put it past him to get an Uber and go to their favorite Lexus dealer and just buy one. 

[TexasProud]

4 hours ago, bolt. said:

Would he believe the threat of, "If your doctor finds out that you have gone beyond the driving limit they set for you, the doctor will be taking away your license completely. The next time you do this, if you ever do it again, I will call and tell him that you have been violating the doctor's orders. Now let's talk about better ways for you to get to the places your friends live. Because I don't want you losing the ability to get your own groceries and coffee either."

My step-brother did a version of this today.  We shall see.

[TexasProud]

Thank you, everyone.  I have forwarded all of your ideas to him. I appreciate it. 

[Halftime Hope]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think a doctor has any authority to revoke a person's drivers license. According to this source in six states medical personnel are required to report the names of patients who aren't capable of safely driving to the DMV/DOT. In other states they're allowed or encouraged to report, but not required to. But then it's up to the DMV/DOT to do a review. I don't think a doctor would face any liability issues except in the states where it's mandatory that they report.

I believe in most states family members or other individuals can report someone to the DMV/DOT. You could check the Texas law on that and see how those reports are handled.

I've known a few people who've done something mechanical to disable the vehicle and then stalled a loooong time on getting it "fixed."

Agreed, but in my experience, the elder really relied on "the doctor told me it was fine!" When the doc said driving was dangerous, that also carried weight.

That said, for Texas Proud's elder, it may not matter what the doc thinks. ??

The links someone else posted were helpful, too.

[Halftime Hope]

29 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

My step-brother did a version of this today.  We shall see.

All the best with this! The living arrangements sound like a wonderful place for him to be, and I'm glad your step-bro is nearby. 

[TexasProud]

5 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

All the best with this! The living arrangements sound like a wonderful place for him to be, and I'm glad your step-bro is nearby. 

It is.  He complained how lonely he was when he was living alone in the house.  Now he is complaining how he has no friends and nothing to do, despite being surrounded by activities and people.  I know he misses my mom..  He keeps talking about needing purpose, but when I suggest things, I discovered what he really meant is traveling with my mom. (They traveled a ton.)

[Halftime Hope]

9 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

It is.  He complained how lonely he was when he was living alone in the house.  Now he is complaining how he has no friends and nothing to do, despite being surrounded by activities and people.  I know he misses my mom..  He keeps talking about needing purpose, but when I suggest things, I discovered what he really meant is traveling with my mom. (They traveled a ton.)

Is he able to travel with your family for selected adventures? (I know, it's probably a lot to ask for...)  ETA: don't answer this here. It's just a think-outside-the-box idea.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Halftime Hope

[City Mouse]

How did the Dr clear him? Just verbally? 
Do you feel he is unsafe driver? 

I have to look for the link, but in Texas there is a review process if an elderly person is reported to the state as possibly unfit to drive. Their license is temporarily suspended and a medical review process is required. The doctor must certify in writing that the person is safe to drive. That leaves a lot more liability on the doctor.

I researched this extensively and had to threaten my mother with reporting her when she started saying that she was going to start driving again even though she can’t see and can barely move (she was unhappy when my dad decided to stop driving as his dementia progressed).

Found  the link.https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/drivers-age-79-or-older

https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/texas-medical-evaluation-process-driver-licensing 

My parents didn’t make it to the 79 age thing, but the medical evaluation part is not limited to 79 and up

Edited May 29, 2023 by City Mouse

[bolt.]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

It is.  He complained how lonely he was when he was living alone in the house.  Now he is complaining how he has no friends and nothing to do, despite being surrounded by activities and people.  I know he misses my mom..  He keeps talking about needing purpose, but when I suggest things, I discovered what he really meant is traveling with my mom. (They traveled a ton.)

That sounds a bit like "purpose" to him might mean "something to look forward to" or "something challenging" or even just "something different".

It's not the same as traveling with a loved one, but where is he at in terms of traveling alone? Is it physically/medically possible? If so, something like a cruise or an organized all-included tour might be just right for him. If he can afford a Lexus or a camper at the drop of a hat, there's no reason a couple of cruises a year should set him back too far.

[TexasProud]

50 minutes ago, bolt. said:

. If he can afford a Lexus or a camper at the drop of a hat, there's no reason a couple of cruises a year should set him back too far.

He cannot afford it actually.  That is what he doesn't understand. He has something like 300,000 in savings, which isn't really all that much considering he is 72 and could live a long time. He hasn't dealt with his finances in a long time.  My mom handled everything. I probably wouldn't have chosen the facility he is in, but my stepbrother wants him in the best and is willing and able to pay for it when the money runs out. 

[TexasProud]

The other thing is when he gets in a situation where he isn't familiar, he can get really, really confused.  I personally witnessed this when we met them in Colorado at their timeshare.  Mom reported him getting lost as well.  So, no, traveling alone isn't possible.  He is fine if he is in a familiar place with a familiar routine. 

[J-rap]

If he is going to drive anyway, are there slower, less busy, backroads he can take?  I don't know the areas there at all so perhaps this is impossible.  My dad is 95 and still living independently, but he realizes his driving isn't what it used to be.  Still, he is amazingly careful when he drives and can handle roads that are less-busy city roads (not highways), during the day, and avoiding rush hour.  Probably the most he drives is one mile, but it's a straight shot, fairly slow, and familiar.  No busy highways/freeways, for sure.