Is Teaching Textbooks legitimate? (Would love to hear others' experiences with it.)

[EKT]

I promise my question isn't meant to offend!

Context: We have used Math U See since Pre-K (so, 11 years so far!). We really love it and it's always worked great for us. But I'm trying to decide if we want to use it next year, for Algebra II. (Honestly, I'm a little thrown by MUS's Algebra 1 redesign; it's making me question whether their other high school courses are still adequate.) We're so comfortable with MUS that I really hesitate to switch. That said, I am curious about Teaching Textbooks because I do love how inexpensive and how user-friendly it is (in that it does all the grading, etc. for you). I would still be using the program alongside my student (she wouldn't be left on her own!), but math is not our strong suit, so I like the way the program walks the student through everything. I guess the thing that is so off-putting to me about Teaching Textbooks is that the website looks like it was designed in 1996 by a student in an Intro to Computer Design course. In other words: the website and the look of the apps don't inspire a lot of confidence. But...maybe it's great? Is it considered a complete curriculum for one credit of high school math? Would love to hear from others who are familiar with TT. Thank you so much!

[Kassia]

We used it for geometry and were very happy with it.  The only issue for geometry was that the proofs weren't written out so dd did those on her own.  Dd was a STEM student and had no holes in her knowledge after using TT for geometry.  We moved to Thinkwell after TT Geometry for Algebra 2 and she liked that better but I think she would have been fine with TT.  She just graduated with a degree in computer science and needed to do proofs for a couple of classes later and had no problems at all. 

ETA - we did use it for a high school math credit

Edited May 17, 2023 by Kassia

[Lori D.]

Legit? Yes, of course it is. TT has been around for almost 20 years (founded in 2004), and not long ago released version 4.0 -- so their 3rd revision since the release of the original edition.

No personal experience but comments I have seen over the years:
- original version Alg. 2 covered only about half of the topics in a typical Alg. 2 program -- revised versions fixed that so yes, a full credit now
- TT is often considered one of the "lighter" options -- MUS is probably considered the very lightest of high school math options; AoPS and Dolciani typically are listed at the most rigorous end of the spectrum of high school math programs
- the presentation is traditional and spiral -- similar to Saxon; if your student does well with Saxon, then TT may be a good fit; if you have a non-traditional math learner, then TT may not be a good fit (like, if the student clicks well with MUS)
- designed for students to use on their own -- so, self-teaching
- every single problem is fully worked out, so you can see exactly where you might have gone wrong
- a few times (maybe 3?) I have heard that students figured out how to cheat, and went for months before parent discovered it (note: this is something I have heard about not JUST with TT -- students cheating has happened with a number of different programs)

re: amateurish website design
lol. I think that about a LOT of small company websites, and about the layout/design of a LOT of homeschool produced programs for a number of subjects. 😄 Poor graphic design can often just mean the company spent their limited funds on publishing and promotion rather than paying a professional graphic designer. 😉 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Lori D.

[cintinative]

Just now, Lori D. said:

- a few times (maybe 3?) I have heard that students figured out how to cheat, and went for months before parent discovered it (note: this is something I have heard about not JUST with TT -- students cheating has happened with a number of different programs)

+1 for this report 

this is for someone whose son graduated from high school maybe 3 years ago, so I have no idea if the product has changed, but somewhere in the middle of his high school experience he was using TT and mom discovered that he was circumventing it by cheating.  It had something to do with putting a guess in, and then the program would provide the correct answer and then he would input that. I could be wrong on the logistics--it's been years.  But anyway, yes, a motivated kid can cheat.  

[Lori D.]

1 minute ago, cintinative said:

+1 for this report 

this is for someone whose son graduated from high school maybe 3 years ago, so I have no idea if the product has changed, but somewhere in the middle of his high school experience he was using TT and mom discovered that he was circumventing it by cheating.  It had something to do with putting a guess in, and then the program would provide the correct answer and then he would input that. I could be wrong on the logistics--it's been years.  But anyway, yes, a motivated kid can cheat.  

eek! 😵

[freesia]

I’ve used the old ( non-computer) version of geometry 3 times and like it a lot. Two of mine have used pre-calculus and one has used Algebra 2. It’s legitimate. My son who used 3 levels is now a computer programmer. So is his best childhood friend who also used Geometry-pre-calc. Another childhood friend who used it went on to a STEM degree. DS and Dd who used 3 and 2 levels got over 700 on their math SAT’s. So, yes, I think it’s fine. Now, for my kids I had them work the problems on paper and went over what they did wrong. I’m not sure how that would work with the computerized version. 
 

Now, it’s not my favorite and I do think there are richer options but this aren’t as user friendly. 

[maize]

Several of my kids have used Teaching Textbooks; it's legitimate and a decent (not super rigorous) program.

[Melanie32]

My daughter used math u see through Algebra 1 and Geometry and then used TT for Algebra 2. She loved it and it helped her tremendously! She transitioned to college level math with no problem. 
 

If I had to do it over again, I would use TT for algebra 1 as well. I still like math u see up through pre algebra and for geometry. 

[EKT]

2 hours ago, Melanie32 said:

My daughter used math u see through Algebra 1 and Geometry and then used TT for Algebra 2. She loved it and it helped her tremendously! She transitioned to college level math with no problem. 
 

If I had to do it over again, I would use TT for algebra 1 as well. I still like math u see up through pre algebra and for geometry. 

This is very encouraging! (It's so interesting how closely your experience mirrors mine!) My younger daughter will be doing Algebra 1 this coming year, so I might switch over to TT for both girls - Alg 1 and Alg 2.) And yes, we have loved MUS so much (I really, really love it for Pre-K-8th, especially!), that I feel a weird sense of allegiance to their program, but I think we might need a bit more step-by-step guidance, particularly for Alg 2.

 

Thank you to everyone who has chimed in so far!! Because we've been using the same program for so long, I really haven't ever investigated other options. So far, Thinkwell and TT are very appealing alternatives that I am going to continue to check out. I really appreciate the feedback! 

[Dmmetler]

On 5/17/2023 at 4:54 PM, cintinative said:

+1 for this report 

this is for someone whose son graduated from high school maybe 3 years ago, so I have no idea if the product has changed, but somewhere in the middle of his high school experience he was using TT and mom discovered that he was circumventing it by cheating.  It had something to do with putting a guess in, and then the program would provide the correct answer and then he would input that. I could be wrong on the logistics--it's been years.  But anyway, yes, a motivated kid can cheat.  

FWIW, M did credit recovery Geometry last summer through PS, and this was exactly the way most of the students got through the class-if you put in a guess, it would answer the question for you, so just copy that. I'm not sure most of the students even saw that as cheating, since it was right in the program, but it meant that M, who was doing it at home with me vs in the classroom (because the classroom lights triggered seizures), and I insisted on them actually doing all the problems, ended up moving way, way slower than the kids who did it on campus! 

 

I think this is a common problem with online math in general-if it goes through and "explains" the answer to the student, and doesn't lock out the student input, it allows this to happen. 

[forty-two]

My dd is doing TT Geometry right now, and it's been just what she needed.  Nice, solid problems.  As far as I can tell, it seems like they tightened up the grading, as you only have one extra chance to try again (I was a bit disappointed by this, honestly - on the proofs dd could have used more tries - although it makes sense from a preventing-cheating perspective), and it certainly looked like asking for the answer would automatically prevent you from being able to give an answer to it again.

[Loowit]

All three of my kids have used TT.  I can't remember when I switched them to it, but it was a number of years ago when it was on CDs.  DD did fine with math in college.  Middle didn't go to college, but needed math skills for his MOS in the Marines and has been doing great.  Youngest will be taking college algebra next year (his choice, he could have done calculus) so we'll see how he does.

I would not say it is the most rigorous math out there, but it has taught my kids enough that they weren't behind after graduation and were able to keep up in math and science.  I do think that I like the online version better than the CD version.  Also, their customer service has been very good the few times I have had to call them.

[EKS]

We used their old geometry course and it was decent non-honors option.

The interface is ridiculous and my son couldn't stand listening to the guy who narrates.  He claimed that he sounded like the guy on Blue's Clues.  Which is true.  I ended up presenting the material to him using the book because I got sick of hearing about it.  As far as I can tell, there is no longer a book, which is too bad.

I have not used TT other than the geometry.  I would not use any program where answers are simply input into the computer and graded.  This is for two reasons.  The first is that it fosters bad habits.  I know this because I have had to retrain kids on how to write out work after coming from TT.  It is a disaster--if they write anything at all it is all over the place, not step by step, but in a sort of cloud.  The second is that I don't believe in grading homework/practice problems and I don't believe in grading answers only once kids are at a certain level--algebra for sure, but also for many prealgebra problems.