How dirty is unsanitary?

[Heartstrings]

3 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:

I maintain a very clean home. Not spotless, but regularly cleaned surfaces and good organization. I struggle with filing/shredding papers, though, and don't mind leaving a dish in the sink overnight to soak. 

Tonight I helped a friend who has very different standards for cleanliness. I have known this for many years. However, I was a bit shocked to see her teen's room that teen claimed she had "just cleaned yesterday". Overflowing baskets of clothes, a dozen scattered hangers, books and papers and makeup everywhere, food wrappers and unwrapped (possibly used) panty liners on the floor. Blinds damaged, rug upside down in a knot with shoes bunched up in it. I told her I would help her clean her room this week and I don't even know how to approach it beyond just physically rearranging her stuff. She was a trash hoarder as a small child. We did this years ago when she was tiny. I am trying to figure out what to say because it's inevitable she has a mess again in a week, but I also feel like she listens to me.

I highly recommend A Slob Comes Clean-Dana K. White, her blog, podcast, books, all of it.  It’s great for people who are not naturally tidy.  She talks about using simple daily habits and has a “progress, only progress” method for decluttering.  I’m a huge fan.  

[Shoeless]

This thread gives me anxiety. I'm sure I don't meet a lot of people's standards. I hate cleaning the bathroom, so I put it off as long as possible. But laundry, including sheets, is done weekly. Dishes are done every day. Kitchen counters and sink are wiped down daily, and the floor is swept. 

I'm kind of uptight about making sure the laundry is done regularly, because I grew up in one of those households where laundry didn't happen in a timely manner due to mental illness, lack of in-home laundry facilities, and power struggles between the adults. It makes me so angry to think about that situation. 

One of my half-siblings cannot figure out laundry. Like, they're at "family of mice living in the laundry pile" level of problem. The whole situation is so triggering and maddening. I can't set foot in their house because it makes me too angry. 

[Tenaj]

7 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

I maintain a very clean home. Not spotless, but regularly cleaned surfaces and good organization. I struggle with filing/shredding papers, though, and don't mind leaving a dish in the sink overnight to soak. 

Tonight I helped a friend who has very different standards for cleanliness. I have known this for many years. However, I was a bit shocked to see her teen's room that teen claimed she had "just cleaned yesterday". Overflowing baskets of clothes, a dozen scattered hangers, books and papers and makeup everywhere, food wrappers and unwrapped (possibly used) panty liners on the floor. Blinds damaged, rug upside down in a knot with shoes bunched up in it. I told her I would help her clean her room this week and I don't even know how to approach it beyond just physically rearranging her stuff. She was a trash hoarder as a small child. We did this years ago when she was tiny. I am trying to figure out what to say because it's inevitable she has a mess again in a week, but I also feel like she listens to me.

Are we talking about teens rooms?  Because if we are, I am in big trouble!  The rest of my house is reasonably clean but my eldest (19) at home has a complete mess in his room.  Honestly, I just shut the door everyday after he leaves and stack his clean laundry just inside the door when it's done.  I do grab towels that he has left on the floor but other than that, I try to respect his right to keep the room the way he wants it.  I am reasonably sure there is no food or dishes in there.  

[Carrie12345]

8 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I agree.  I've been in homes that would definitely qualify and caseworkers were still working with parents as much as possible.  I've seen babies crawling on floors soaked with urine and feces and with drug paraphernalia within reach.  I've seen maggots in rotted food.  Those are the conditions that they are trying to prevent.  Most people who have reached that level have significant substance abuse and/or mental illness and not just a lack of the "housekeeping gene". 

This. The home conditions were listed on my relatives’ case, but removal was only after multiple years of investigations and interventions involving multiple aspects. It wasn’t a situation of normal/average people who were just normal/average messy. There were deeper issues.

[fairfarmhand]

We came across a cell phone video from when my oldest was about 12. So at that point my kids were 12, 8, 5 and 2. 
 

you see my dd strolling through the house. Every room is messy and cluttered. She walks through every part of the house and finally finds me in the bathroom with a baby at my feet cleaning like crazy. There were 4 of them and only one of me. Madness!

[maize]

8 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

I maintain a very clean home. Not spotless, but regularly cleaned surfaces and good organization. I struggle with filing/shredding papers, though, and don't mind leaving a dish in the sink overnight to soak. 

Tonight I helped a friend who has very different standards for cleanliness. I have known this for many years. However, I was a bit shocked to see her teen's room that teen claimed she had "just cleaned yesterday". Overflowing baskets of clothes, a dozen scattered hangers, books and papers and makeup everywhere, food wrappers and unwrapped (possibly used) panty liners on the floor. Blinds damaged, rug upside down in a knot with shoes bunched up in it. I told her I would help her clean her room this week and I don't even know how to approach it beyond just physically rearranging her stuff. She was a trash hoarder as a small child. We did this years ago when she was tiny. I am trying to figure out what to say because it's inevitable she has a mess again in a week, but I also feel like she listens to me.

You are unlikely to be able to help with recommendations for long-term changes because you clearly have good executive function and she clearly does not.

Nothing you can say can possibly change that--it has to do with physical differences in the brain.

Another person with who struggles with executive function and has figured out some coping strategies may have useful advice for her, but the key is it has to be strategies that work with poor executive function.

[Heartstrings]

6 minutes ago, maize said:

You are unlikely to be able to help with recommendations for long-term changes because you clearly have good executive function and she clearly does not.

Nothing you can say can possibly change that--it has to do with physical differences in the brain.

Another person with who struggles with executive function and has figured out some coping strategies may have useful advice for her, but the key is it has to be strategies that work with poor executive function.

That’s why I’m a fan of A Slob Comes Clean.  She comes from the perspective of someone who struggles with it all.  She’s sharing tips that worked from her on her journey from drowning in clutter to a functional home.  

[sbgrace]

I'm a CASA (court appointed special advocate) for our child protective services system. Families involved in our system almost always have tons of issues outside of cleanliness. 

I have never been in a parent's home in my capacity as a CASA that I would consider anything close to clean or particularly sanitary (I mean clutter and dishes in the bathtub and etc).

But the only case that I was involved where the home was the main part of the initial case opening was one with some pet feces and various infestations in addition to hoarding-level clutter. Those things were hurting the kids in multiple ways. Once I got involved, I realized there were tons of issues besides those presenting initially. Still, I think it might have been better to bring in services for this family instead of immediately pulling the kids (I came into the case after the children were removed). 

In the problem homes I deal with the kids are also unkept/unwashed and etc. fwiw. That needs addressed. Still, it's a trauma to pull a child out of a home. I think it should only be done when things are actually unsafe. A lot can be handled with services. 

My husband grew up in a hoarding home. It was not a bad childhood at all, but his mom has that problem. It would not at all be something to remove a child over. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by sbgrace

[Brittany1116]

 

11 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I highly recommend A Slob Comes Clean-Dana K. White, her blog, podcast, books, all of it.  It’s great for people who are not naturally tidy.  She talks about using simple daily habits and has a “progress, only progress” method for decluttering.  I’m a huge fan.  

Thank you. I will check this out and pass it along to my friend. They are moving soon and think a new place will magically help them be more organized, even though the past moves prove otherwise. 

2 hours ago, maize said:

You are unlikely to be able to help with recommendations for long-term changes because you clearly have good executive function and she clearly does not.

Nothing you can say can possibly change that--it has to do with physical differences in the brain.

Another person with who struggles with executive function and has figured out some coping strategies may have useful advice for her, but the key is it has to be strategies that work with poor executive function.

This is why I mentioned it here; I knew someone would have a helpful link. She has grown to care about perfecting other areas of her life, and she dislikes the current state of her room enough to ask for help. So I can pass on the info given above, and use some of the tips while we clean and reorganize. I think there is also a component of clutter being very normal in the house and not being trained in how to deal with it. 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

We came across a cell phone video from when my oldest was about 12. So at that point my kids were 12, 8, 5 and 2. 
 

you see my dd strolling through the house. Every room is messy and cluttered. She walks through every part of the house and finally finds me in the bathroom with a baby at my feet cleaning like crazy. There were 4 of them and only one of me. Madness!

that's it - we are outnumbered!

[ktgrok]

Going to say, even with say, "wiping down counters daily" when you cook 3 meals a day, and have 4 kids getting snacks and drinks throughout the day, unless you see the counter right after I cleaned it, it likely will NOT look clean. This morning I found shredded cheese sprinkled on one counter (sort of blended in with the counter so got missed by whoever used the cheese) and some soggy cereal stuck to the table, there was sugar and coffee grounds near the coffee pot, etc. 

That said, I'm ashamed to admit that as I was typing this I was like..something doesn't smell good. Turns out last time I sat at my desk (I ususally use computer elsewhere) I had coffee with cream in it. And left it here. Probably two days ago. Ick. But that is NOT the norm. 

[Katy]

12 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I remember a couple of moms joking about tattooing  their NOI on the child’s back so they always had it.    

What is NOI?

Edited March 16, 2023 by Katy

[SKL]

6 hours ago, Tenaj said:

Are we talking about teens rooms?  Because if we are, I am in big trouble!  The rest of my house is reasonably clean but my eldest (19) at home has a complete mess in his room.  Honestly, I just shut the door everyday after he leaves and stack his clean laundry just inside the door when it's done.  I do grab towels that he has left on the floor but other than that, I try to respect his right to keep the room the way he wants it.  I am reasonably sure there is no food or dishes in there.  

Teens are a whole category to themselves, LOL.

I am a relatively clean person, and I even managed to train my adult housemates to where they at least don't leave their earrings and nylons on the kitchen counter.  (Still in training for certain things, LOL.)  But I'm a complete failure when it comes to training my teens.  Like, what's this?  A trash container?  What's it for?  ... Oh, you mean the dishes don't take themselves downstairs?  ... Oh THAT'S why I don't have any clean socks ????

[alysee]

I'm not a clean person but a few daily rules keeps our house looking lived in but not a pigsty.

1. Food is to be eaten at the table. 

2. If we eat or make a mess as a family, we clean up as a family. Everyone has a job. 

3. We have morning Chores and afternoon Chores. 

4. I hire someone to do those tasks I hate or forget to do. 

5. Minimize the amount of inventory(stuff)

Edited March 16, 2023 by alysee

[ktgrok]

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

But I'm a complete failure when it comes to training my teens.  Like, what's this?  A trash container?  What's it for?  ... Oh, you mean the dishes don't take themselves downstairs?  ... Oh THAT'S why I don't have any clean socks ????

I swear there should be a study on how you can tell when a person hits puberty by how they start hoarding cups in their room. And when they hit full physical maturity they go back to realizing that they don't need a new cup for each individual sip of water all day long. It's just in puberty.

[Heartstrings]

4 hours ago, Katy said:

What is NOI?

Notice of Intent to homeschool.  We have to file them annually in my state.