It's been sorted, thanks.

[Tree Frog]

17 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the number of people who think driving 8 hours in a day is unsafe/too long/difficult.  I would think nothing of hopping in the car and doing exactly as you are planning.  I suspect it has to do with how comfortable the person is driving distances more than the actual risk involved.  With kids who are old enough to talk to you and a night's sleep in between the trips. to me it's a no brainer to drive.  Flying over a holiday weekend sounds like a complete nightmare to me.

I agree with you, I would much rather drive the distance than be in an airport during a holiday season. Two days of driving is nothing, especially if you're stopping overnight. I grew up driving distances and my kids grew up driving distances. This past summer, I drove 13+ hours by myself over 2 days. It's easier if you have kids to talk to who can help with navigation. If one is close to driving age, it's a great time to talk about how to drive distances and the differences between local driving and distance driving.

It does sound like manipulation, especially when you add threats. I hope things settle down and you're able to have a calm, lower drama week.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Tree Frog

[alisoncooks]

If it weren’t a holiday, I’d say fly. But the idea of an airport over thanksgiving and all the crowds/delays/etc…nope. I’d drive, and I hate driving. 

[Heartstrings]

I don’t see 8 hours one day and 8 hours the next as unsafe.  I’ve done this regularly over the years.   3-4 trips a year that require 2 8 hours day there and 2 8 hour days back.   Pushing to do all 16 hours at once was too much for me, but the 8 hour days were easy peasy.  Yes, even as the sole driver.  I have GPS and a phone full of podcasts. 
 

I also hate to fly.  By the time you get to the airport, wait, fly, lay over, fly again, get your luggage…it’s 8 hours and I could have just driven.  That’s the best case scenario, Flights are delayed and canceled routinely lately.  No thanks. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Harriet Vane]

23 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the number of people who think driving 8 hours in a day is unsafe/too long/difficult.  I would think nothing of hopping in the car and doing exactly as you are planning.  I suspect it has to do with how comfortable the person is driving distances more than the actual risk involved.  With kids who are old enough to talk to you and a night's sleep in between the trips. to me it's a no brainer to drive.  Flying over a holiday weekend sounds like a complete nightmare to me.

As far as dealing with kids' dad, it does sound like he's using the anxiety as an excuse to manipulate you.  Due to the mental health stuff, he may not even realize that is what he's doing but he is.  I would not give in on this.  I would be worried it opens the door to future situations where you "just have to" do what he wants because his anxiety is so bad.  I don't think that is a healthy dynamic.

 

I am sorry that everything is just such a struggle for your family right now.

Yes, I agree. While I can see that some might prefer flying, I'm really surprised at the vehemence. I drive six hours to Chicago routinely because it's where our family live, and there are many times I drive two hours past that to where dd lives. For me it's really not a big deal. 

[maize]

I'm another who has done long drives with kids in the car without thinking it a big deal. I've done lots of 8 hour drives and don't consider that even remotely  unreasonably long. 

All the comments about busy holiday travel have me wondering though if airports really are crazy on Thanksgiving day itself and the Friday after? The super heavy travel days are usually before the holiday day (Tuesday and Wednesday for Thanksgiving) and at the end of a holiday weekend, not day of. I have kids flying home from visiting grandparents this Friday and tickets were considerably cheaper both Thursday and Friday, presumably because those are comparatively low volume travel days.

This is just bunny trailing, but I'm wondering how many people commenting about air travel volume have actually flown on Thanksgiving. I've flown on Christmas before and that was quite an easy travel day.

[itsheresomewhere]

I drive the kids and I that and longer so it doesn’t bother me.  The thought of being in an airport during thanksgiving is a nope.  

[Bambam]

I'm glad to see people stating they don't think 8 hours/day is excessive! I've done that many times - sometimes alone, sometimes with two young children, sometimes with just my dh (typically I do all the driving). As I get older, I do have to stop every 2 hours and get out and walk - not because I'm tired but because my knees and hip start to stiffen up. 

Even when I know the way with my phone GPS, I still use it when driving long distances any more. Not for the directions but because the nice GoogleMapLady will reroute me if there are traffic problems. That's so handy!

And I agree with the idea if you have a teen close to driving age, using that long drive opportunity to talk about various scenarios as they arise in your trip.

I'm curious - was your husband always anxious about you driving the kids somewhere or is this relatively new? Is there some distance limitation that has always been part of his viewpoint - like it is okay for BbaH to drive the kids around town, but no further than 30 miles out of town? 

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Baseballandhockey

[Corraleno]

53 minutes ago, maize said:

This is just bunny trailing, but I'm wondering how many people commenting about air travel volume have actually flown on Thanksgiving. I've flown on Christmas before and that was quite an easy travel day.

This was my experience, too. The one time I flew on Thanksgiving day, it was less crowded than a typical weekend. When we moved from the UK to the US, we had multiple delays with the UK house sale, and by the time we could finally get plane tickets with a firm date, all the flights available for the last two weeks of December were either sold out or astronomically expensive — except Christmas Day. So we managed to get fairly cheap transatlantic flights on short notice, and the airports and planes were half empty.

[itsheresomewhere]

Just throwing this out there-  would he be ok if the kids missing his time if the plane was delayed/cancelled or would he not be happy with it?  Would he blame you in some way? That is one thing that could happen easily right now.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by itsheresomewhere

[Frances]

1 hour ago, maize said:

I'm another who has done long drives with kids in the car without thinking it a big deal. I've done lots of 8 hour drives and don't consider that even remotely  unreasonably long. 

All the comments about busy holiday travel have me wondering though if airports really are crazy on Thanksgiving day itself and the Friday after? The super heavy travel days are usually before the holiday day (Tuesday and Wednesday for Thanksgiving) and at the end of a holiday weekend, not day of. I have kids flying home from visiting grandparents this Friday and tickets were considerably cheaper both Thursday and Friday, presumably because those are comparatively low volume travel days.

This is just bunny trailing, but I'm wondering how many people commenting about air travel volume have actually flown on Thanksgiving. I've flown on Christmas before and that was quite an easy travel day.

Yes, we’ve flown on Christmas Day several times and it was super easy and not crazy at all.

[katilac]

It would be a 100% no for me. 

I also think it's weird and not helpful that your f-i-l suggested that he make the offer. He knows how things are. 

[Bambam]

51 minutes ago, katilac said:

I also think it's weird and not helpful that your f-i-l suggested that he make the offer. He knows how things are. 

I guess I don't find it weird that FIL suggested it. I can see thinking of that as a compromise, helping my son with his anxiety (so troubling to see) and possibly helping DIL with her trip. I don't know that he would think of it as setting a precedent, giving up control, giving in to anxiety isn't a good option, etc. I would imagine he saw a problem and thought what, to him, was a decent compromise.  

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the number of people who think driving 8 hours in a day is unsafe/too long/difficult.  I would think nothing of hopping in the car and doing exactly as you are planning.  I suspect it has to do with how comfortable the person is driving distances more than the actual risk involved.  With kids who are old enough to talk to you and a night's sleep in between the trips. to me it's a no brainer to drive.  Flying over a holiday weekend sounds like a complete nightmare to me.

As far as dealing with kids' dad, it does sound like he's using the anxiety as an excuse to manipulate you.  Due to the mental health stuff, he may not even realize that is what he's doing but he is.  I would not give in on this.  I would be worried it opens the door to future situations where you "just have to" do what he wants because his anxiety is so bad.  I don't think that is a healthy dynamic.

 

I am sorry that everything is just such a struggle for your family right now.

I think some folks just aren't used to it. We drive 12 hours to get to our house in Alabama in a sh for day. It is normal for us, and we enjoy the time together.  We are natural born road trippers. But,not everyone is and some find that much drive time to be really hard on their backs and knees.

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Baseballandhockey

[Not_a_Number]

40 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think some folks just aren't used to it. We drive 12 hours to get to our house in Alabama in a sh for day. It is normal for us, and we enjoy the time together.  We are natural born road trippers. But,not everyone is and some find that much drive time to be really hard on their backs and knees.

We've done road trips a few times now and really like it, but I certainly don't enjoy being stuck in holiday traffic for 8 hours, nor would I think someone who worries about such a long drive with one driver was being completely irrational. I worried when my mom drove from Toronto to NYC, for example. 

Driving's an objectively dangerous activity, probably the most dangerous thing most of us do day-to-day. 

Not that this should be dispositive one way or another. Just sharing the perspective of someone who sees both sides here. 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think my FIL was thinking, here would be an example of a reasonable compromise.  I don't know whether he knew I had been threatened with contempt, and if he did I think he was saying "instead of threatening her, why didn't you offer her tickets?"   Not "Hey here is an add on strategy". 

I got an email today that was clearly written with some help, but basically acknowledged that I have the right to take them, and thanked me for bringing them back for his family's celebration, and offered to buy me tickets to make getting them back in time easier.  

So, I bought them.  6 a.m. flight both ways.  I figure that way even if there are delays I'll probably make it.  

I'm not sure it's the right choice.  The holiday season is so stressful, it's like landmine after landmine.  

The whole thing just sounds SO stressful. Like holidays with family aren't stressful enough as is... 

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Baseballandhockey

[Not_a_Number]

27 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

For context, this summer he had a major freakout about me driving back and forth to the beach, and our recent escalation started with him raging at me because I asked another family to take my kid to an out of town soccer game, plus he definitely overreacted to my kid's accident this summer. 

Was that the "kid's dad" conversation or a different one? I remember those being tangled up somehow... 

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Baseballandhockey

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

 I don't understand your question.

I remember he got super angry at you about referring to him as "kid's dad" (as opposed to as your husband.) I was wondering if the "out of town soccer game" came up during the same argument or a different argument. 

My apologies if I'm misremembering. 

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Baseballandhockey

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Oh yes.  Same incident.

Thanks for clarifying. I was worried I was mixing things up. 

It sounds like this driving issue is a huge trigger for him 😕. You can't accommodate it, of course, because you (and other people!) need to drive the kids where they need to go. As people have said, his anxiety is his own. It sucks that you have to bear the brunt of it.