Cold Creek County shooting

[MercyA]

We've talked here before about how law enforcement officers need training in dealing with people who are mentally ill or distressed. This story breaks my heart.

Excerpts from Clear Creek County deputies shoot and kill man who asked for help after car crash:

Late on the night of June 11, 2022, Glass apparently got his car stuck on a rural road near Silver Plume.

When he phoned 911 from his cell phone asking for help, he sounded mentally unstable, paranoid and extremely scared.

[...]

“I’m in a 2007 Honda Pilot. I will not be fine on my own,” he told an operator. “You’re sending someone right? You tracked my location? My car is stuck under a bush … I love you. You’re my light right now. I’m really scared. I’m sorry.”

A Boulder County resident, Glass was an amateur geologist and had some knives and a hammer in his car from a recent trip to Utah. 

Glass...told the dispatcher he had what could be perceived as weapons in the car and he offered to throw them outside when officers arrived.  

“I have two knives and a hammer and a rubber mallet,” he said, in a slight accent, to the emergency dispatcher. “I’m not dangerous. I’ll keep my hands completely visible. I understand this is a dodgy situation.”

When they arrived on the scene, Glass again offered to throw the tools and knives out the window. 

Deputies said they didn’t want him to throw the weapons out of the car and instead demanded that he get out of the car. 

Glass told officers with his hands up that he didn’t feel safe getting out of the car. He took the keys out of the ignition and put them on the dashboard and told them he was scared and wanted to stay in the car. He wasn’t suspected of any crime.

“Please push me out, drag me out, I’ll follow you to a police station,” Glass told the officers. “I’m so scared.”

The deputy, whose name has not been released by authorities, yelled at Glass.

“You need to step out of the car now. Step out of the car,” he said. “That is a lawful order. Step out of the car now or you’ll be removed from the vehicle.”

Glass responded, “I’m so scared … You’re not communicating clearly with me. I don’t understand why I have to come out.”

I encourage you to read the rest of the article. In summary: The incident lasted over an hour and twenty minutes. At one point, an officer stood on the hood of Glass's car and pointed a gun at him. They started to break his windows, and he picked up his remaining small knife. (He had thrown the other to the other side of the car.) They broke his windows, pelted him with bean bags, tased him, and finally shot him.

He had not committed or even been suspected of any crime. He called them for help. He voluntarily told them he "smoked" (and was clearly not mentally well).

He offered to throw the geology tools out of the vehicle when they got there and said he would show his hands at all times. 

He feared for his life and clearly his fear was not unfounded. 😞 The officers have not been disciplined. 

An update: https://www.cpr.org/2022/09/15/clear-creek-county-shooting-update/

Edited September 16, 2022 by MercyA

[happi duck]

What a nightmare.

God.  I just can't help sobbing.

Being terrified.  Expressing the fear.  The people called for help instead torture and murder.

I just can't in any way understand how completely evil and inept these, and other, officers are...

[bookbard]

That's one of the worst things I've ever heard. 

[Tree Frog]

I have a couple of thoughts. First, my nephew is a sheriff's deputy in the mountains in that state. His responses to conversations about mentally ill people cause me to hope he never has to come across one for the sake of the civilian. Second, what was the expected outcome? I understand the victim was very frightened. If his vehicle was stuck, was a tow truck called to pull it out? I would be curious to know if any of those officers calmly asked Mr. Glass how he wanted them to help him. Being increasingly aggressive doesn't help any situation and could cause even the most stable person to think he needs to defend himself. 

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Tree Frog said:

Second, what was the expected outcome? I understand the victim was very frightened. If his vehicle was stuck, was a tow truck called to pull it out?

I think we all just have it so ingrained to call the police if we need help.  Call 911. Too often that’s a bad idea, which such a shame.   

 

The most prudent thing for this man would have been to Google a tow company and sit tight.  But since he was in a remote area, was he able to use the internet on his phone? I know I can often make calls but not use data.  In a remote area, with no Google, how does one get a tow?  I guess my insurance card has a phone number, would they be able to help? Calling 911 and expecting the police or 911 to help doesn’t seem crazy in that case, even without a mental health episode. 

I wish we had something besides police to handle exactly this sort of stuff.  

[Tree Frog]

10 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I think we all just have it so ingrained to call the police if we need help.  Call 911. Too often that’s a bad idea, which such a shame.   

 

The most prudent thing for this man would have been to Google a tow company and sit tight.  But since he was in a remote area, was he able to use the internet on his phone? I know I can often make calls but not use data.  In a remote area, with no Google, how does one get a tow?  I guess my insurance card has a phone number, would they be able to help? Calling 911 and expecting the police or 911 to help doesn’t seem crazy in that case, even without a mental health episode. 

I wish we had something besides police to handle exactly this sort of stuff.  

I agree that calling 911 shouldn't be a crazy, unsafe idea. I wonder what the police's expected outcome was. Sometimes if people can imagine the outcome they want, they can work backwards. "Clearly Mr. Glass wasn't harming is or himself, so what do we want to accomplish here?" could be one of the policemen's thought processes. I work with a behavior student and sometimes I have to think outside the box to de-escalate the situation. If what I want the way I expect it isn't happening with my student, then I have to think of another way to achieve what needs to happen. 

It's the attitude, though, that needs to stop. Because he reacted positively to one of the female officers, she went back her coworkers and made fun of him instead of using his willingness to listen to her to help the situation.

I thought it was interesting that in the next county over, LEO's are given training to help mentally ill and that with specific types of calls, specially trained personnel are sent instead of law enforcement. I hope more of LEO receive training.

It's a hard place to be, to always expect the worst because your and others' lives might depend on it. But still be expected to address the situation accurately if your life isn't dependent on it. In this case, it sounds like group think took over. 

The older I get, the more I see differences between people and the biases we all carry. Sometimes those biases serve us well and sometimes they don't. 

[Heartstrings]

36 minutes ago, Tree Frog said:

it sounds like group think took over. 

Has there been any reporting on why so many cops responded?  It seems like 1 officer would have been sufficient.  

[Teaching3bears]

With all the outrageous police stories I hear I believe that, in many cases, a certain type of person becomes a police officer.  These are people who who should not have jobs working with the public in any capacity let alone as police officers.  I believe that to prevent this would-be officers should be given rigorous testing to assess things like how easy they are to anger, racist/sexist/homophobic tendencies, how much they love power and basic intelligence and judgement.  
The story was so sad.

[pinball]

3 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Has there been any reporting on why so many cops responded?  It seems like 1 officer would have been sufficient.  

A 911 call with reported weapons would not be a 1 person response

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Teaching3bears said:

With all the outrageous police stories I hear I believe that, in many cases, a certain type of person becomes a police officer.  These are people who who should not have jobs working with the public in any capacity let alone as police officers.  I believe that to prevent this would-be officers should be given rigorous testing to assess things like how easy they are to anger, racist/sexist/homophobic tendencies, how much they love power and basic intelligence and judgement.  
The story was so sad.

People who enjoy dominating and bullying others often join the military or law enforcement. I feel sure of it. I wonder if that is one of the reasons there is such a problem with partner abuse in their ranks. 

Would-be police officers have actually been turned away for anything higher than average intelligence. An applicant with an IQ of 125 was rejected for just that reason and brought a lawsuit. The applicant lost: https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

Edited September 17, 2022 by MercyA

[Harriet Vane]

Group culture is a powerful force that can train individuals within the culture to evaluate by the norms within that group rather than by "outside" factors. Two incidents come to mind.

A dear friend of mine is a caseworker in Scotland. The police were called for a mentally ill person who had threatened violence and was behaving erratically. My friend went with because it was a mentally-ill call. Police were prepped with weapons at the ready, about to storm the room the person was barricaded in and take this person down with physical force. My friend is a kindly, middle-aged mom. She said. "Let me try and talk to her." And then simply called out the person's name, saying, "Just coming in to check on you. Are you okay?" The person in question was relieved to have a "mom" there and started vocalizing all her stress. Yes, she was being totally erratic. The cops in the hallway of the residence were worried (they told my friend so later). But my friend was soothing and sympathetic. Persuaded the woman in question to lay down. My friend rubbed the woman's back for a little while, saying soothing things like "there, there." When all was calm she was able to help the woman transition into police custody, and from there into a mental hospital. A caseworker--my personal friend of many years--partnering with the police brought a peaceful resolution and help for that poor woman. 

I was involved with another incident personally. I was in process helping access care for a young adult who was in my life at the time because they were suicidal. In my city, those types of cases (everything from suicide to elderly dementia or mental illness) are directed to a small assessment facility first before being transferred by ambulance wherever the available bed is in whatever care facility. (Honestly, it's a horrible system, but that's another story for another day.) There was a mentally ill woman who stayed up the entire night keening and wailing and moving about agitatedly. She did not speak any English. So many hours of misery. In the morning, they were all set to move her to a treatment facility. I happened to be in the hall when they pulled up the bed with the straps for transport by ambulance. The woman was no longer crying, but she was most definitely shaky and scared. As she looked at the bed, the ambulance staff and the facility staff tightened a circle around her. It was so obvious to ALL of us that they intended to physically wrestle her onto the gurney. I have seen this type of circle before--it's the circle, but it's also the "game face" and the body tension that the person puts on when they know they will take down someone physically. I acted impulsively and stepped INTO the circle to the woman. The staff all went rigid. I smiled at the woman and her eyes met mine. So fearful. I kept saying, soothingly, "It's okay." I gestured to the gurney, and she took a few, hesitating steps. I patted the gurney, continuing to gesture to the woman and saying, "It's okay." She kept looking from the gurney to me. She chose to get onto the gurney, and I held her hand while they strapped her down. It was such a simple thing to do! Simply to speak soothingly and to move gently and to wait patiently for her to respond. I was so angry with the staff for their open, obvious viewing her like a rabid animal, and I was so glad I could help that miserable, unhappy woman.

I'm well aware that it doesn't always go so well. Dealing with my father-in-law when he was in the grip of psychosis brought on by Lewy body dementia was much the opposite. There was NO soothing him. It is unfortunately true that often there is no choice. 

But the point is you will never know unless you try. Always, always start with soothing and kindness.

[Teaching3bears]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

People who enjoy dominating and bullying others often join the military or law enforcement. I feel sure of it. I wonder if that is one of the reasons there is such a problem with partner abuse in their ranks. 

Would-be police officers have actually been turned away for anything higher than average intelligence. An applicant with an IQ of 125 was rejected for just that reason and brought a lawsuit. The applicant lost: https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

Yikes!

[pinball]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

People who enjoy dominating and bullying others often join the military or law enforcement. I feel sure of it. I wonder if that is one of the reasons there is such a problem with partner abuse in their ranks. 

Would-be police officers have actually been turned away for anything higher than average intelligence. An applicant with an IQ of 125 was rejected for just that reason and brought a lawsuit. The applicant lost: https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

AFAIK, this was one city that did this. If you look a little closer, they did it for monetary reasons. The test administrator had various careers lined up with IQs and it was believed someone with a higher IQ than the suggested range would get bored and quit, and waste the money used to train them.

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

People who enjoy dominating and bullying others often join the military or law enforcement. 

I took a psychology module last year. I found an interesting study on authoritarian attitudes in the British police force. Recruits tended to score high on authoritarian attitudes.  This was reduced during training, but returned to high levels when they were immersed in working police culture. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

We had an incident a year and a half ago where the police responded to a mental health crisis at school involving my then ten year old son and he wound up handcuffed, which was completely inappropriate and escalated the whole situation. I was less than impressed and started talking to everyone and anyone who would listen. Long story short I wound up doing a ton of education for local LE and I now teach mental health topics at our law enforcement academy.  I find repeatedly that the police officers do want to know what to do, but they’re getting only the barest bones of education, and then add in a potential weapon and it’s a disaster.

But these are people who are trained to their core to control a situation and figure it out later.  It’s a huge shift mentally to switch to what a mentally ill person needs. 
We do have a crisis team of social workers here that is supposed to go out to a situation with a mentally ill person and diffuse the situation or determine the best course of action.  Unfortunately, due to liability or short staffing or whatever, they always wind up requesting police and EMS presence.  And we—police and EMS—have next to no training on any of this.  Police want to control the situation for safety; paramedics want to fix what they can medically and take the person to the ER, where the staff will be frustrated yet again because there’s no beds for medical emergency patients, much less psych patients, and now they have to scrape together a 1:1 sitter from somewhere to stay with the person because JCAHO came in and said they have to, and there’s no inpatient psych beds anywhere anyway. 
It’s a wrecked situation from start to finish, but the solution require money, so that isn’t going to happen. Nobody wants to fund appropriate mental health care, education, staffing or beds.

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

the "game face" and the body tension that the person puts on when they know they will take down someone physically.

My kid started getting this treatment in the pediatrician's office when he first started to have anxiety about shots (there was a gap in time where he didn't remember his super little kid shots, and where he had seen me get a ton of tiny, nothing allergy shots, so the fact that a shot hurt unexpectedly set him up for a lot of stress). A nurse basically sacked him and stabbed him the moment he showed fear. If we can't even get good techniques at what should be a developmentally appropriate place...

5 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

Group culture is a powerful force that can train individuals within the culture to evaluate by the norms within that group rather than by "outside" factors.

That makes a ton of sense.

[MercyA]

4 hours ago, pinball said:

AFAIK, this was one city that did this. If you look a little closer, they did it for monetary reasons. The test administrator had various careers lined up with IQs and it was believed someone with a higher IQ than the suggested range would get bored and quit, and waste the money used to train them.

Yes, there was just one lawsuit as far as I know. And the police force's attorneys gave the reason you stated--they said applicants with above average intelligence would get bored and quit. 

I have heard it said, though, that both the military and LE are looking for compliant candidates rather than very intelligent ones. How much of that belief stems from this lawsuit, I don't know. 

[pinball]

12 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Yes, there was just one lawsuit as far as I know. And the police force's attorneys gave the reason you stated--they said applicants with above average intelligence would get bored and quit. 

I have heard it said, though, that both the military and LE are looking for compliant candidates rather than very intelligent ones. How much of that belief stems from this lawsuit, I don't know. 

IIRC, you don’t hold the military or law enforcement in high regard so you might be only hearing info that matches your preconceived notions.

[MercyA]

5 hours ago, pinball said:

IIRC, you don’t hold the military or law enforcement in high regard so you might be only hearing info that matches your preconceived notions.

Maybe so. I am always open to being wrong. I did look for more information but couldn't find anything else during my admittedly quick search. 

ETA, @pinball: I am *immensely grateful* that there are people willing to risk their own lives to protect and aid others. If the military and law enforcement did nothing but protect and aid, I would indeed hold them in high regard. We just see more and more completely unnecessary aggression and injustice and cruelty from them--and not just that, but torture and rape and murder. There was a reason why this poor 22-year-old kid was terrified to get out of his car. 😞 

Edited September 18, 2022 by MercyA

[Heartstrings]

10 hours ago, pinball said:

A 911 call with reported weapons would not be a 1 person response

Even a call saying I’m in a stuck car, probably just need a tow?  That sounds like a sleepy call.  This guy said he had tools and a knife, but any call could have those.   I might not think to mention the pocket knives and shovel in my car if I called looking for assistance.  If he planned to do something to hurt the officers he could have just not said anything.  Still though, maybe 1 primary car and 1 back up for safety, but it sounds like the whole county showed up for a guy who hit a bush.  Was it just a slow night where everyone was bored?  

[Melissa in Australia]

Here in Australia we have a service of volunteers called The State Emergency Service. They do things like pull out bogged people, put tarps on roofs after storms and assist in car accidents. to contact them people call the emergency 000 number just as they would for police or a firetruck.  For a bogged car the state emergency service would come, none of them are armed. No police would come, a person having geology tools wouldn't be called weapons here at all. the whole situation that was presented on the news seems so foreign.