Do you let people lie to you? Update sort of

[Scarlett]

I am struggling so much with this in my life. I can spot a liar from 100 yards….it is my gift and curse. If you have someone close to you who you know is lying…….do you call them on it or do you smile and wave?

Edited June 10, 2022 by Scarlett

[Bootsie]

It really depends upon the situation.  I would consider who the person is, whether the issue is an important issue, and whether may saying something is going to make any difference.

[Katy]

I usually just avoid them.  If it's someone trying to manipulate my my response might range from polite to confrontational, depending on the situation.

[JustEm]

Depends on the person. But if I deem it not worth calling them on it then I'd start distancing myself from them

[teachermom2834]

I have a couple people in my life that lie to me about the dumbest stuff. Like just because they think I am being nosy. Like I can ask my dad what he did last night and he can say he watched a movie when he really watched a ball game. Because I’m his child and it is none of my business how he spends his time. 
 

I have a kid that lies just because he doesn’t feel like chatting so he will just lie with something that doesn’t lend itself to another question. Even when there is nothing to be secretive about.

Its obnoxious and an impediment to relationship. I can spot it a mile away but I don’t bother with it if it is of no consequence. But it erodes trust, usually unnecessarily.

Its whatever. Choices. Consequences. I couldn’t tolerate that stuff from dh though.

[Scarlett]

So basically you are all saying if you expect to maintain a relationship with this person you would not allow them to continue to lie to you?

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, teachermom2834 said:

I have a couple people in my life that lie to me about the dumbest stuff. Like just because they think I am being nosy. Like I can ask my dad what he did last night and he can say he watched a movie when he really watched a ball game. Because I’m his child and it is none of my business how he spends his time. 
 

I have a kid that lies just because he doesn’t feel like chatting so he will just lie with something that doesn’t lend itself to another question. Even when there is nothing to be secretive about.

Its obnoxious and an impediment to relationship. I can spot it a mile away but I don’t bother with it if it is of no consequence. But it erodes trust, usually unnecessarily.

Its whatever. Choices. Consequences. I couldn’t tolerate that stuff from dh though.

Yes.  Exactly.  And ftr, it is not Dh.  But it is causing big problems with Dh and me.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

So basically you are all saying if you expect to maintain a relationship with this person you would not allow them to continue to lie to you?

You don't have to be specific if you don't want to, but I'm wondering what kind of lies is this person telling you. Could you give us a few examples?

 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Yes.  Exactly.  And ftr, it is not Dh.  But it is causing big problems with Dh and me.

I think I might have a guess as to who the liar might be, but I'm not going to say anything here. But... if it's who I think it is, if this is a person who you and your dh have been going waaaaay out of your way to help, I wouldn't be willing to tolerate the lying.

[Scarlett]

Well, it is our youngest……who still lives  with us.  And he is lying over where he is and what he is doing.  He is 21……he can do what he wants even if we disapprove.  But there will be consequences which may mean he needs to find his own place. Not in some sort of reactive ‘ get out of my house!’ In the middle of a stormy night type thing….but in a calm, hey this  really is not working for our family type way.

There have been many many discussions and he SAYS one thing and then does another and lies about it.  I just….can’t. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Scarlett

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, it is our youngest……who still lives  with us.  And he is lying over where he is and what he is doing.  He is 21……he can do what he wants even if we disapprove.  But there will be consequences which may mean he needs to find his own place. Not in some sort of reactive ‘ get out of my house!’ In the middle of a stormy night type thing….but in a calm, hey this  really is. To working for our family type way.

There have been many many discussions and he SAYS one thing and then does another and lies about it.  I just….can’t. 

OK, yes, I can absolutely see why you are having a real problem with that. There is no reason for him to lie to you, and I wouldn't tolerate anyone in my house lying to me -- and it seems like your dss is doing this on a regular basis.

You are NOT WRONG for being angry and frustrated about this. This isn't just some casual acquaintance that you see every now and then; this is a family member who lives in your home. Lying is just plain unacceptable. If he doesn't want to answer a question, he should just say so, not make up a story! 

[JustEm]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, it is our youngest……who still lives  with us.  And he is lying over where he is and what he is doing.

I mean at 21, I wouldn't be asking where my child was and what they're doing, even if they lived with me so I wouldn't be in that situation.

But if it is something that you and dh deem not acceptable behavior to still live under your roof then you call them out on it, sit down, and come up with a plan/date for him to move out

[Scarlett]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

OK, yes, I can absolutely see why you are having a real problem with that. There is no reason for him to lie to you, and I wouldn't tolerate anyone in my house lying to me -- and it seems like your dss is doing this on a regular basis.

You are NOT WRONG for being angry and frustrated about this. This isn't just some casual acquaintance that you see every now and then; this is a family member who lives in your home. Lying is just plain unacceptable. If he doesn't want to answer a question, he should just say so, not make up a story! 

Exactly.  And if you don’t want to live by our……rules? Standards?  Not sure what word fits here…..then be grown up enough to find your own place.  I have been lied to repeatedly over the last 4 monthsor so…..now I distrust every word out of his mouth.  

Edited April 2, 2022 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

I mean at 21, I wouldn't be asking where my child was and what they're doing, even if they lived with me so I wouldn't be in that situation.

But if it is something that you and dh deem not acceptable behavior to still live under your roof then you call them out on it, sit down, and come up with a plan/date for him to move out

Except he continues to deny it.  But I can spot the lies.  And Dh doesn’t ‘ see’ it like I do…..thus problems between us. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I mean at 21, I wouldn't be asking where my child was and what they're doing, even if they lived with me so I wouldn't be in that situation.

But if it is something that you and dh deem not acceptable behavior to still live under your roof then you call them out on it, sit down, and come up with a plan/date for him to move out

Surely there is some deal breaker for you?  Like some behavior you would not allow under your roof?  

[JustEm]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Surely there is some deal breaker for you?  Like some behavior you would not allow under your roof?  

You didn't say under your roof, you said where they are and what they're doing(I assumed while they were out.) 

I would have deal breakers for in my house but I wouldn't question them about those things or snoop unless there were major signs of an issue. I'm thinking more along the lines of drugs in my house. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

You didn't say under your roof, you said where they are and what they're doing(I assumed while they were out.) 

I would have deal breakers for in my house but I wouldn't question them about those things or snoop unless there were major signs of an issue. I'm thinking more along the lines of drugs in my house. 

Under my roof to me means while you live with me.  

[Bootsie]

If it were my adult child and I thought that there was repeated lying happening, I would be thinking about why the lying was occurring.  Was it simply that the person didn't want to be asked where they were and what they were doing?  Was it they were doing something they didn't want me to know about?  If so, why are they so concerned about my knowing?  Did the child and I have a different definition of lying (e.g. the child tells me they went to the store but the child omitted that they also went to Starbucks and one of us thinks it is partial truth and the other thinks it is a lying)?  Is the child being rebellious? 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

If it were my adult child and I thought that there was repeated lying happening, I would be thinking about why the lying was occurring.  Was it simply that the person didn't want to be asked where they were and what they were doing?  Was it they were doing something they didn't want me to know about?  If so, why are they so concerned about my knowing?  Did the child and I have a different definition of lying (e.g. the child tells me they went to the store but the child omitted that they also went to Starbucks and one of us thinks it is partial truth and the other thinks it is a lying)?  Is the child being rebellious? 

Yes, I’m wondering the same thing. 

What does he say when you catch him in a lie? Have you asked him why he keeps lying to you? And how does your dh react when he lies? 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

If it were my adult child and I thought that there was repeated lying happening, I would be thinking about why the lying was occurring.  Was it simply that the person didn't want to be asked where they were and what they were doing?  Was it they were doing something they didn't want me to know about?  If so, why are they so concerned about my knowing?  Did the child and I have a different definition of lying (e.g. the child tells me they went to the store but the child omitted that they also went to Starbucks and one of us thinks it is partial truth and the other thinks it is a lying)?  Is the child being rebellious? 

I know why he is lying.  Because he knows we disapprove. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

Yes, I’m wondering the same thing. 

What does he say when you catch him in a lie? Have you asked him why he keeps lying to you? And how does your dh react when he lies? 

Dh desperately wants to believe him. 

[JustEm]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Under my roof to me means while you live with me.  

I fully intend to deal with my children the way my parents handled me and my siblings. Once we were 18 we were adults and they treated us as adults. We could come and go as we pleased with zero expectation of telling them anything unless we were using a family vehicle. They had no set rules for us and we were welcome to stay for as long as we wanted to.

The only time my parents had to talk about kicking a kid out was when there were adult kids and young kids home and the adult kid brought drugs into the house. I can imagine a few other scenarios that would warrant enforcing rules, like premarital sex in the house and significant others not staying the night.

But I know you have very different expectations like that so I can't help you, especially since your dh doesn't 'see' or maybe chooses not to and it is causing issues for you 2

[Bootsie]

Another thing I would consider is if there is a general pattern of lying or if it tends to be about one thing or to one person.  If I understand correctly, the son says that he isn't lying, your husband doesn't see the lying, and you know the son is lying.  If that is the case, will asking the son to move out help relationships?  Will the item being lied about still be an issue, or will it simply be a topic that is no longer relevant if son is living someplace else?  

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I know why he is lying.  Because he knows we disapprove. 

Is he doing anything that is physically dangerous to him, or is it more like he’s hanging out at bars and you don’t approve of that, so he says he was somewhere else instead?

[JustEm]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I know why he is lying.  Because he knows we disapprove. 

I doubt that is the only reason. He likely thinks that as a 21 year old you shouldn't be in his business outside of the direct household. He also likely knows that telling the truth means he has to find a new living situation. Also, from all your posts over the years I imagine simply not answering you isn't an option. So, he has likely been set up to lie because it is easier. 

For him, he doesn't see anything wrong with what he's doing, so all telling the truth will do is negative for him. Lying hurts his relationship with you but I bet for him it doesn't outweigh the negatives of telling the truth

[Katy]

I would flat-out say, "You're lying."  And then I would leave the consequences to DH because it's his kid and I think that matters more than controlling a 21 year old in my house.  But I wouldn't pretend I didn't know he was lying.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

I would flat-out say, "You're lying."  And then I would leave the consequences to DH because it's his kid and I think that matters more than controlling a 21 year old in my house.  But I wouldn't pretend I didn't know he was lying.

This is kind of where I come down on the matter.  I am not demanding he be kicked out or anything drastic…..but I don’t think we should pretend we believe his lies.  

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Dh desperately wants to believe him. 

But does he actually believe him, or does he just want to avoid a confrontation? 

Does your dh share your feelings that the things your dss is doing are very wrong? If he does, yet he doesn't want to confront his son, maybe it's more important to your dh that his son keep living with you, than it is to call him out for his lies and risk estrangement.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

This is kind of where I come down on the matter.  I am not demanding he be kicked out or anything drastic…..but I don’t think we should pretend we believe his lies.  

I might go so far as to say, "You're a terrible liar.  Just be honest."

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

But does he actually believe him, or does he just want to avoid a confrontation? 

Does your dh share your feelings that the things your dss is doing are very wrong? If he does, yet he doesn't want to confront his son, maybe it's more important to your dh that his son keep living with you, than it is to call him out for his lies and risk estrangement.

We agree overall.  We disagree about the level of lying. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Katy said:

I might go so far as to say, "You're a terrible liar.  Just be honest."

The problem comes in with me trying to let Dh handle it….. I spend a lot of time biting my lip. And then later with Dh I am annnoyed, then he gets angry at my annoyance…it is just a bad pattern.   I pray dss moves out on his own soon.

[Corraleno]

I will always confront a kid that I know is lying to me, regardless of age, because trust is the foundation of any relationship. Having said that, I don't bug my almost-20-yr-old DD about what she does outside of the house, so she doesn't have much reason to lie. My one line in the sand would be illegal drugs. Other than that, it's her life, not mine.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

For me it wouldn't be an issue of age, or even what the lies were.

If I had a close person regularly lying to me, it would erode trust and therefore the relationship.

I can't imagine many things, if any, that my children could tell me that I'd actually disapprove of more than lying.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

I will always confront a kid that I know is lying to me, regardless of age, because trust is the foundation of any relationship. Having said that, I don't bug my almost-20-yr-old DD about what she does outside of the house, so she doesn't have much reason to lie. My one line in the sand would be illegal drugs. Other than that, it's her life, not mine.

The bolded.  And I am sure we all have our line in the sand. Dh and mine is probably different than most people.  But this young man is not micromanaged.  He does what he wants with very little question or comment from us. So when he started the lying I was on high alert. And I just hate it.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

For me it wouldn't be an issue of age, or even what the lies were.

If I had a close person regularly lying to me, it would erode trust and therefore the relationship.

I can't imagine many things, if any, that my children could tell me that I'd actually disapprove of more than lying.

Yes.  This.  The lying to me has become much bigger than the thing he is lying about.  

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I will always confront a kid that I know is lying to me, regardless of age, because trust is the foundation of any relationship. Having said that, I don't bug my almost-20-yr-old DD about what she does outside of the house, so she doesn't have much reason to lie. My one line in the sand would be illegal drugs. Other than that, it's her life, not mine.

Yes, I'm wondering what the kid is doing that he feels the need to lie about it. 

I agree that illegal drugs are absolutely the line in the sand for me, too, and I would also add heavy drinking and driving to that list, because the kid could put his own life and the lives of others at risk. But something like hanging out in nightclubs wouldn't bother me at all. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Yes.  This.  The lying to me has become much bigger than the thing he is lying about.  

That makes sense. If he lied occasionally, you might be annoyed but be able to overlook it, but this seems to be a regular occurrence, and I would have no patience for that, either.

If he's doing something he knows you don't approve of, he should at least have the guts to admit it when confronted about it.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Yes.  This.  The lying to me has become much bigger than the thing he is lying about.  

Does he know this? 

Does he know that your desire to maintain a trusting relationship outweighs your disapproval of a behaviour?

[Catwoman]

Just now, chocolate-chip chooky said:

Does he know this? 

Does he know that your desire to maintain a trusting relationship outweighs your disapproval of a behaviour?

That's a great question. Could he be worried that if he tells you the truth, you will kick him out of the house?

[TechWife]

I abhor lying and have a visceral reaction to it. One of my siblings is a compulsive liar. I work from the basic assumption that she is lying when she tells stories. She’s also the one who tries to “one up” everyone in a conversation - always having a sadder, or funnier, or more stressful, expensive, dangerous experience than the person she’s talking to. For her, I smile and nod because most of what she says is inconsequential and impossible to verify one way or another. It’s so frequent, that I’d be challenging her endlessly and it’s just not worth the trouble to me. She’s in her sixties so I don’t expect  will ever change. I keep conversation light with her and we have some running jokes between us that works to keep the relationship fun. I have called her out a couple of times - hen it was directly about me - and she backed off because she knew that I was well aware she was lying. I do not trust her. I don’t tell her much about our lives. She has a way of under-reacting when good news is shared with her as well - dismissive of really important life events that others experience, saying things aren’t that big of a deal - which is another lie because there are things that are big deals and should be acknowledged and celebrated. Now she told my parents some whoppers that had long term consequences when the truth came out - broken trust snd some financial consequences for my parents. It was bad. That was probably a huge turning point in how I viewed her lies as well - there was a lot of damage. 

I wouldn’t tolerate a work related lie from a coworker or from my husband or son - but that hasn’t ever been a problem. I call out conspiracy theories and mischaracterizations among my friends. As you can imagine, that doesn’t always go over well. We’ve all seen the consequences of the way those lies spread and take root. 
 

if I had to draw a line on when I call lies out, I’m much more likely to do so when I know it will hurt someone else. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, I'm wondering what the kid is doing that he feels the need to lie about it. 

I agree that illegal drugs are absolutely the line in the sand for me, too, and I would also add heavy drinking and driving to that list, because the kid could put his own life and the lives of others at risk. But something like hanging out in nightclubs wouldn't bother me at all. 

But does it really matter what he is lying about? I mean if he thinks we are so ridiculous he should be making a plan to be on his own.  Instead he has been using our extra vehicle since the accident that totaled his car….now using his moms….with very little urgency in getting a new while.  All the while lying to us. 

[1234]

My only line in the sand for adult children living at home is if they are doing something illegal. So, my kids basically never lie to me and share way too much. 🤪 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

But does it really matter what he is lying about? I mean if he thinks we are so ridiculous he should be making a plan to be on his own.  Instead he has been using our extra vehicle since the accident that totaled his car….now using his moms….with very little urgency in getting a new while.  All the while lying to us. 

It kind of does matter, because we are trying to figure out what we would do in your situation, and if one of us is thinking he's lying about having eaten all of the cookies out of the cookie jar, and another of us is thinking he's lying about having murdered the next door neighbor and buried the body behind your shed, our advice for you is going to be vastly different. 😉 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

My only line in the sand for adult children living at home is if they are doing something illegal. So, my kids basically never lie to me and share way too much. 🤪 

LOL!  I hear it all at my house, too! 🤣

[chocolate-chip chooky]

3 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

My only line in the sand for adult children living at home is if they are doing something illegal. So, my kids basically never lie to me and share way too much. 🤪 

And honestly, if my kids were doing something illegal, I'd absolutely expect the truth if they were confronted about it. Then we work on it as a team. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

It kind of does matter, because we are trying to figure out what we would do in your situation, and if one of us is thinking he's lying about having eaten all of the cookies out of the cookie jar, and another of us is thinking he's lying about having murdered the next door neighbor and buried the body behind your shed, our advice for you is going to be vastly different. 😉 

Interesting, he once got grounded at his moms house because he lied about eating chips. And I don’t think he has murdered someone.,,

[Catwoman]

Just now, chocolate-chip chooky said:

And honestly, if my kids were doing something illegal, I'd absolutely expect the truth if they were confronted about it. Then we work on it as a team. 

YES!!! Lying would just compound the problem! I'll help my kid with just about anything as long as he's honest with me about it.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Interesting, he once got grounded at his moms house because he lied about eating chips. And I don’t think he has murdered someone.,,

AS FAR AS YOU KNOW......   😉 

[Katy]

I haven't heard anything positive about his mom, but I'm guessing he felt at times that he had to lie to her as a matter of survival based on a few things I remember from several years ago.  And if he had to lie about stuff he's compulsive about like food... well I'm sure that reinforced the behavior.  It's extremely common in kids who have been abused. 

So I think what I would do is say something like, "Look.  I can tell that you're lying and it's a personal pet peeve of mine. If you're going to lie to your dad please do it when I'm not in the room because I can tell every time." And maybe talk about the advantages of being honest, even when it's uncomfortable.  And then when he was lying I'd make it clear I knew it with sarcastic statements and raising one eyebrow, but I would let it go.

[Catwoman]

@Scarlett, I just realized that maybe you don't want to say exactly what he's lying about, because you might be thinking that the thread will suddenly be all about whether or not you should be upset about that particular thing, and people will forget all about the actual topic of the thread. 

It won't really be helpful to you if we all start saying that you shouldn't be annoyed that he did XYZ thing, and that it's totally normal and acceptable for guys his age to do XYZ thing, because that's not the point anyway. The point is that he's lying and also that your dh doesn't seem willing to confront him about the lies (or is being willfully ignorant because he doesn't want to believe that his son is habitually lying to him.)

So anyway, if you don't want to mention the specifics, I can understand that. It would be better if we knew, just so we could gauge the magnitude of the lies, but if you think it will end up with people judging you as a parent instead of focusing on the lying, that would definitely make sense to me.

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Catwoman
autocorrect keeps thinking I'm spelling Scarlett wrong!